White House denies Bush was military "deserter"

[cjbuchanan]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The White House denied accusations that President George W. Bush (news - web sites) was a "deserter" who did not formally complete his military service.

"It is outrageous and baseless. I think it represents the worst of election-year politics, and everyone should condemn this baseless attack," White House spokesman Scott McClellan declared.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/afp/us_vote_bush_military

Notice how they denied he was a "deserter" and not that he had gone "AWOL." Deserter is a much harder thing to prove. Also, I do believe that you can be honorably discharge if you have gone AWOL (you can be demoted and penalized) but you cannot be honorably discharge if you are a deserter. Anyone else know if this is a correct statement?

Just like they made sure not to say "imminent threat," they are not going to say AWOL.

[southpaw72]

1. keep on denying, scotty...

... it just keeps it in the news cycle.

[H2O Man]

40. you need to learn the meaning of the words.

This is simple. A deserter is someone who takes off for the wild blue yonder whiule in active service, specifically combat. Your heroic president never was in a position where he could desert, unless you count the after-dinner treats his mommy cooked him. He was AWOL, which is absent without official leave, which is for non-combatants who also head for that wild blue yonder. "Deserter" is absolutely no harder to prove. But georgie never dared to do the tough stuff he sends poor & middle class kids to do every day. What makes me puke now is Fox News saying Clinton didn't serve ... but, folks, he didn't go AWOL, which is a criminal offense. He didn't get charged because of his daddy.

[amber dog democrat]

53. Under the UCMJ

An absence past 30 days was desertion. At least it was told to us in 1969.
They used to send the FBI after people. I saw it happen.

I am laying odds that the Chimp deserted.

[Jack Rabbit]

78. If he had been Regular Service, you would be right

As a member of the National Guard, he simply failed to report.

It should have bought him more pain then it did then. Now he can pay for it with interest.

[ixion]

2. anything these people deny is true

and anything they say is true is a lie.


That's the way the work. ;-)

[proud patriot]

3. LIARS

:mad:

[Tuttle]

4. Don't forget to rate this story

It will help keep it in the news cycle...

Tut-tut

[DODI]

5. I had a friend who can say he was honorably discharged

He was discharged for drugs and stayed out of trouble thus magically turning it into an honorable discharge. Would they same thing apply with AWOL?

[cjbuchanan]

12. I think so

I had a friend who took an extra three days off once (he had a week R&R pass), thus was classified as AWOL. He got into a bunch of trouble, but was honorably discharged two years later.

Now three days is a bunch less then Bush, but it is still the same theory.

[thebaghwan]

6. Let's keep the pressure on them!! Write the White House and demand a full

answer. We need to keep this in the press.

[Stephanie]

7. Everyone should read this excellent thread by BOSSHOG

Question for my Fellow Veterans

[UpInArms]

8. no problem -

just produce the military records and then it will be resolved.

Cease the lying denials without validation.

The records are out there that show * didn't show up.

[mac56]

15. Remember the right-wing mantra from the Clinton years...

"If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about."

Oops! I forgot! That doesn't apply to them.

[ewagner]

17. Latest spin.........

The WH is releasing a copy of his discharge certificate and underscoring the words "Honorable Discharge". The certificate is NOT THE RECORD!

[Stephanie]

9. More info on Bush's AWOL:

Here are some links for anyone who would like to know more about Bush's AWOL:

(I made one post, for easier copying, from the links posted in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1047177#1047181 )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php

The pundits immediately went berserk after the debate. As well they should. Because they know that they -- and much of the mainstream media -- ignored this Bush AWOL story when it was first revealed by an investigation in the Boston Globe (in 2000). The Globe said it appeared George W. Bush skipped out in the middle of his Texas Air National Guard service -- and no charges were ever brought against him. It was a damning story, and Bush has never provided any documents or evidence to refute the Globe's charges.

George W. Bush was missing for at least a 12 month period. That is an undisputed fact. If you or I did that, we would serve time.

Senator Daniel Inouye, Democrat of Hawaii and a World War II veteran, joined with Vietnam vets Sen. Max Cleland and Sen. Bob Kerrey to challenge Bush on the gaps in his military record. "The question is, where were you, Governor Bush? What would you do as commander-in-chief if someone in the National Guard did the same thing? At the least, I would have been court-martialed. At the least, I would have been placed in prison," Inouye said.

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The definitive site - a comprehensive collection of links, articles and official documents:

http://www.awolbush.com/

Where were you in '72?
Most of us remember...Bush does not...

So, while the news networks have sat on this explosive story for months, it's well documented that George W. Bush never showed up for National Guard duty for a period of approximately one year, possibly more, in 1972-1973. Despite all the talk about "honor and dignity," Bush seems to have a problem meeting his commitments.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671

FINALLY, THE TRUTH ABOUT BUSH'S MILITARY SERVICE RECORD
George W.'s Missing Year

Marty Heldt is a farmer. He told us, "I spent 17 years as a brakeman before moving back to the farm. That job had some long layovers that gave me a lot of time to read and to educate myself." He lives in Clinton, Iowa.

Nearly two hundred manila-wrapped pages of George Walker Bush's service records came to me like some sort of giant banana stuffed into my mailbox.

I had been seeking more information about his military record to find out what he did during what I think of as his "missing year," when he failed to show up for duty as a member of the Air National Guard, as the Boston Globe first reported.

The initial page I examined is a chronological listing of Bush's service record. This document charts active duty days served from the time of his enlistment. His first year, a period of extensive training, young Bush is credited with serving 226 days. In his second year in the Guard, Bush is shown to have logged a total of 313 days. After Bush got his wings in June 1970 until May 1971, he is credited with a total of 46 days of active duty. From May 1971 to May 1972, he logged 22 days of active duty.

Then something happened. From May 1, 1972 until April 30, 1973 -- a period of twelve months -- there are no days shown, though Bush should have logged at least thirty-six days service (a weekend per month in addition to two weeks at camp).

<The documents are available at: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/document.htm >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Paul Krugman:

http://truthout.org/docs_03/050703G.shtml

Mind you, it was funny. At first the White House claimed the dramatic tail-hook landing was necessary because the carrier was too far out to use a helicopter. In fact, the ship was so close to shore that, according to The Associated Press, administration officials "acknowledged positioning the massive ship to provide the best TV angle for Bush's speech, with the sea as his background instead of the San Diego coastline."

A U.S.-based British journalist told me that he and his colleagues had laughed through the whole scene. If Tony Blair had tried such a stunt, he said, the press would have demanded to know how many hospital beds could have been provided for the cost of the jet fuel.

But U.S. television coverage ranged from respectful to gushing. Nobody pointed out that Mr. Bush was breaking an important tradition. And nobody seemed bothered that Mr. Bush, who appears to have skipped more than a year of the National Guard service that kept him out of Vietnam, is now emphasizing his flying experience. (Spare me the hate mail. An exhaustive study by The Boston Globe found no evidence that Mr. Bush fulfilled any of his duties during that missing year. And since Mr. Bush has chosen to play up his National Guard career, this can't be shrugged off as old news.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<Right click and copy link location - it's so long it distorts the page>
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/One_year_gap_in_Bush_s_Guard_duty+.shtml">Boston Globe

One-year gap in Bush's National Guard duty
No record of airman at drills from 1972-73
By Walter V. Robinson, Globe Staff, 5/23/2000

AUSTIN, Texas - After George W. Bush became governor in 1995, the Houston Air National Guard unit he had served with during the Vietnam War years honored him for his work, noting that he flew an F-102 fighter-interceptor until his discharge in October 1973.

And Bush himself, in his 1999 autobiography, ''A Charge to Keep,'' recounts the thrills of his pilot training, which he completed in June 1970. ''I continued flying with my unit for the next several years,'' the governor wrote.

But both accounts are contradicted by copies of Bush's military records, obtained by the Globe. In his final 18 months of military service in 1972 and 1973, Bush did not fly at all. And for much of that time, Bush was all but unaccounted for: For a full year, there is no record that he showed up for the periodic drills required of part-time guardsmen.

Bush, who declined to be interviewed on the issue, said through a spokesman that he has ''some recollection'' of attending drills that year, but maybe not consistently.

From May to November 1972, Bush was in Alabama working in a US Senate campaign, and was required to attend drills at an Air National Guard unit in Montgomery. But there is no evidence in his record that he did so. And William Turnipseed, the retired general who commanded the Alabama unit back then, said in an interview last week that Bush never appeared for duty there.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://bushwatch.org/bushgate2.htm

JUNIOR AWOL ON DRUGS?

"THE Republican frontrunner for the White House, George W Bush, was suspended from flying as a young pilot for failing to take a medical examination that included a drug test.
"Documents obtained by The Sunday Times reveal that in August 1972, as a 26-year-old subaltern in the Air National Guard, Bush was grounded for failing to "accomplish" an annual medical that would have indicated whether he was taking drugs....While he has consistently admitted to a "misspent youth", Bush has evaded questions about cocaine or other drug use, implying only that he has not taken illegal substances since 1974, the year after he left the Air National Guard....

"Bush was not required to face drug tests when he first entered the reserve unit as a Yale graduate in 1968. It was only at the end of 1971 that the US Air Force, facing a backlash against drug-fuelled escapades in Vietnam, introduced a screening policy. In April 1972 the Pentagon implemented a drug-abuse testing programme that required officers on "extended active duty", including reservists such as Bush, to undergo at least one random drug test every year. The annual medical exam that year included a routine analysis of urine, a close examination of the nasal cavities and specific questions about drugs....

"Bush was said to have been unable to take the medical because he was in Alabama while his doctor was in Houston. his campaign official, however, said Bush was aware that he would be suspended for missing his medical as soon as he left Houston because the air force was unable to process his new status before the August deadline for the test. "It was just a question of following the bureaucratic procedure of the time," he said. "He knew the suspension would have to take place."

"William Turnipseed, a retired general who commanded the Alabama unit at the time, said Bush never appeared for duty. Two commanders at Ellington air force base in Houston said in his record they were unable to perform his annual evaluation covering the year from May 1, 1972 to April 30, 1973. "Lt Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of this report," they wrote.

"...Chris Lapetina, a former marine and Democratic political consultant, said controversy about the medical exam could hurt Bush's chances among several voting blocks, including pensioners and veterans. Many servicemen would be upset if they thought a possible future president had avoided an obligatory military examination that included a drug test, he said. "When someone doesn't take a physical in the military there's got to be very good reason," Lapetina said. "It looks like he made a decision not to take it because the alternative was unpalatable." " --Sunday Times (UK), 6/17/00

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A59151-2000Jun25¬Found=true>

Records of Bush's Ala. Military Duty Can't Be Found
By Wayne Slater
Dallas Morning News
Monday, June 26, 2000; Page A06

AUSTIN –– After a thorough search of military records, George W. Bush's presidential campaign has failed to find any documents proving he reported for duty during an eight-month stint in Alabama with the Texas Air National Guard.

But a spokesman expressed confidence Saturday that inquiries will turn up former Guard members who can corroborate Bush's having been there.

"He specifically recalls pulling duty in Alabama," spokesman Dan Bartlett said of Bush. "He did his drills."

<snip>

"I can't remember what I did, but I wasn't flying because they didn't have the same airplanes. I fulfilled my obligations."

In May, retired Gen. William Turnipseed, the former commander of the Alabama Guard unit, said Bush did not report to him, although the young airman was required to do so. His orders, dated Sept. 15, 1972, said: "Lieutenant Bush should report to Lt. Col. William Turnipseed, DCO, to perform equivalent training."

"To my knowledge, he never showed up," Turnipseed said last month.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.agitproperties.com/chickenhawk.html

Please read the scathing letter from Captain Maureen Griswold, (who lost her brother Scott to the Vietnam War debacle), to KB toys about their bush (non)action figure. Here's a brief excerpt:

"Note: AWOL and absent without leave' and desertion (defined as AWOL beyond 30 days), are actual crimes with NO STATUTES OF LIMITATION."

Other links to bush's (non)duty are provided on the linked web page and within the letter of Captain Griswold.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On the lack of coverage
http://www.uaw.org/cap/01/news/day3media.html

Let me give you some statistics," responded panelist Paul Begala, "I worked for Bill Clinton in 1992 and …in anticipation of this very question, I looked this up on Nexis. There were 13,641 stories about Bill Clinton 'dodging the draft' …and there were 49 stories about Bush and the National Guard," Begala said.

And here is a timeline.

http://uggabugga.blogspot.com/2003_01_12_uggabugga_archive.html#87590816

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bill Burkett:

May 28, 2002
A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS

Pausing to Reflect After Memorial Day: Were George W. Bush's National Guard Records Scrubbed? Bill Burkett Should Know. The Nation Deserves the Truth.

(See http://199.96.2.183/contributors/2002/05/24_supreme.html to understand the context of this letter to BuzzFlash.com from Bill Burkett. It is also recommended that you read these two important postings from the Democrats.com archives: http://www.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=171 and
http://www.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=154)

Additional BuzzFlash Note: Major General Daniel James was head of the Texas National Guard at the time of the alleged scrubbing of George W. Bush's National Guard records. He was appointed by George W. Bush to be commander of the nation's Air National Guard -- and was confirmed by the Senate last week.

A Letter to BuzzFlash.com from Bill Burkett, formerly of the Texas National Guard:

In regards to the BuzzFlash contibutor piece, "SUPREME IRONY" (http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/05/24_Supreme.html)

This BuzzFlash reader gets it closer to right than anyone has since 1998 when I broke the Bush AWOL story as a whistleblower.

I hope that more information will be coming soon as a few journalists are now asking questions that should have been asked in 1998.

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/2002/05/28_Scrubbed.html

* * *

Also from the Veterans for Peace website:

What do you say?
By Bill Burkett
Online Journal Contributing Writer

March 19, 2003—I've sat in total grief for the past three years, watching the institutions of America being spent as if they were lottery winnings.

I don't want to say it, "But I told you so."

In January of 1998 and what seems like a full lifetime ago, I was stricken by a deadly case of meningoencephalitis. I was returning from a short duty trip to Panama as a team chief to inspect the hand over of Ft. Clayton to the Panamanians. I had been 'loaned' from the senior staff and state planning officer of the Texas National Guard to the Department of the Army for a series of these special projects after angering George W. Bush by refusing to falsify readiness information and reports; confronting a fraudulent funding scheme which kept 'ghost' soldiers on the books for additional funding, and refusing to alter official personnel records .

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/what_do_you_say_032203.htm

Who is Bill Burkett?

Lt. Col. Bill Burkett completed 28 years of decorated service and was medically retired from the US Army National Guard in 1998 after suffering meningoencephalitis on return from an assignment in Panama. From 1995 until his illness, Burkett served as State Plans Officer for the Texas Army National Guard and Governor George W. Bush. After refusing to follow direct orders involving falsifying readiness reports, Burkett sought "whistleblower" status for reports involving anti-Semitic activity; personnel fraud; readiness fraud and the alteration of the personal military file of Governor George W. Bush. Lt. Col. Burkett is currently the plaintiff in his appeal to the US Supreme Court in the case of Burkett v. Goodwin, Taliaferro, Meador, et al, in regard to the retaliation against him following breaking the Bush records issue. Lt. Col Burkett served as a War Plans Officer during Operation Desert Storm and functioned as a senior trainer in conducting simulations exercises for deploying troops.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

David Neiwert:

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004_01_18_dneiwert_archive.html#107489673457218778

Bush blew off his commitment to the Texas Air National Guard by failing to take a physical, and thereafter failing to report to his superior officers at his old unit for at least seven months. His flight status was revoked, and he never flew again -- at least, not until the Lincoln stunt.

These facts have never been disputed since they were uncovered, and in fact were acknowledged by Bush's spokespeople. Moreover, as Joe Conason has already noted, Bush actually falsified this aspect of his service in his ghost-written autobiography, A Charge to Keep, describing his pilot's training in some detail, then concluding: ''I continued flying with my unit for the next several years." In fact, Bush was suspended from flying 22 months after he completed his training -- a period that does not even generously fit Bush's description.

Several of Bush's former superiors in the TANG -- most of whom remain on friendly terms with the president -- have defended his service and suggested that there was nothing wrong with Bush's behavior in what for most other servicemen would be considered a fairly clear case of dereliction of duty.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Octafish]

31. What Stephanie said.

Is very important. Forward to your friends who may not be aware, as well as to your friends in the news media. They seem to be, um, remembering what W said when it comes to this story.

Thanks for putting it together into one easy-to-archive form, Stephanie!

[Stephanie]

39. No problem, thanks for reading. But please read BOSSHOG's thread

This is the best AWOL thread I've ever seen:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1081070&mesg_id=1081070

[Just Me]

51. BOSSHOG whiddles the issue down for everyone to understand,...

,...while Stephanie's post is like a legal brief!!! Spread Bosshog's message, use Stephanie for back-up!!! Fine, fine work :D

[JoFerret]

46. Great resource. Save and pass on

Thanks for all the work

[rincons land]

76. heres something interesting

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/2/6/113036.shtml

[MrBenchley]

10. Yes but was the Chimp in detox

when he was supposed to be in Alabama, Scott?

[Faygo Kid]

11. This isn't a winning strategery for us

Bush on the ropes with his credibility regarding Iraq. Hammer him there! Pocketbook issues favor the Dems big time. Hammer him there, too. This is simply not the issue the election will turn on. Bush has given us plenty of room to attack him since his "election." And it has worked; that is why he is dropping in the polls. This is a sideshow. People simply aren't going to vote based on this.

[mbperrin]

16. I do think that many vets who won't vote for a Dem

will stay home over this.

[Supormom]

50. You are absolutely right.

Many veterans would never vote for someone who was AWOL, even if it meant abstaining from the vote altogether.

[Just Me]

61. Hell, he spent a million bucks to make himself look like a freakin' hero!!

Why wouldn't his "faux" military/cowboy bullcrap infect those who are serving at his "will"? Especially, when he freakin' lied about sending soldiers over to "protect our freedom" or "liberate Iraqi people" and stood on stages proclaiming utter and total propaganda. Our armed serving men and women don't deny the smell of sh*t *LOL*!!! They are handed an unknowing bill of "powerlessness" when they sign the dotted lines,...and they know there is no rapture in a martydom act of defiance. WTF??? They are tricked into their "loyalty", then find they were betrayed.

At which point does any of these things become a "positive" pursuit? How, exactly, are we HELPING those who are bearing the stones and corners?

I am just wondering about such realities.

[Malva Zebrina]

26. this is exactly the issue that people will vote on

the dishonor, the lie to us all about it. The shocking revaltion that Bush went AWOL and has send 530 of our children to die for his free ride and his photo ops all dressed up on the pilot's costume, as if he were actually a military person and not a cowardly, ignorant asshole who couped his election to take over the presidency of this country without all the votes being counted.

This is exactly the type of thing that the average, apolitical citizen will remember and resent.

It is NOT the same as the blue dress scandal--most Americans at that time, were not that upset over Clinton's stupidity in giving in to his sexual impulses, stupidly, yes, but still, his poll numbers were not that affected by this indescretion.

On the other hand, Bush shows disdain for military service while supporting a war where OTHERS died--not him of course. That he was propelled into the TANG ahead of the waiting list meant that someone had to go, but not him. And he was safe, goddam it! His daddy saw to it that he was safe! Yet he attempts to capitalize on that spurious "service to his country" where he was missing for a year or maybe more. Cheap little, cowardly bastard--he has continued that evasion from harm's way, as most cowards do, for the rest of his life, and now, incredibly, he pretends he is a "commander in chief" responsible for the troops he sends to their deaths, while never even acknowledging their deaths and their return in body bags in the middle of the dark, dark night, or their grieving families who he also abused by taking advantage and stating, emotionally that HE was the one who would have to hug them. OUt of there Bush, you prick! Get out of there- 530 have died for your cowardice and your greed, not to mention the thousands of Iraqi innocent civilians you murdered with your despicable lies to your own people.

And the twit, the prick, went AWOL himself in time of war. Imagine that. The little coward, who sends our children off to die so he can become richer, as well as his friends and buddies who are involved in the defense and military corporations, went AWOL himself!!

And he lied more when he said he "had been to war" he is truly an insane, nevertheless armed and dangerous man who needs to be taken out of the oval office in the next election.

He deserves to be hung by the toes for this lie and for this attempt to cover up his own military service, while he sends our children to die for his greedy purposes and all done on his lie!! Our children are being killed on his, this little twit of a failure and a usurper, man's, lies!!

He was AWOL. HE avoided responsibility as he does now by blaming everyone else around him instead of taking responsibility for his own actions. This is a pattern established since he was a young man. Blame others!!

He was "out of harms's way" while pretending to be a great fighter pilot. He was trained on a fighter that was being phased out. HE knew that. He supported OTHERS going to Vietnam to die, but he went AWOL himself, the little shit.

And now he pretends he can call himself a commander in chief, wearing the codpieced pilot's costume on the USS Lincoln like a strutting Mussolini.

[JPace]

36. "People simply aren't going to vote based on this."

Some people will vote based on this, and yes
there are more important issues...but proving
that AWOL is a shady character is important.
Isn't it the right that claims character is
everything?


AWOL and absent without leave and desertion (defined as AWOL beyond 30 days), are actual crimes with NO STATUTES OF LIMITATION.

[kskiska]

13. If Poppy pulled strings to get Junior in the Guard

he could very well have pulled strings to get that "Honorable Discharge."

[Cassandra]

14. Interesting item from Atrios

http://atrios.blogspot.com/

"In the late summer, this kid shows up, looking like shit, wild-eyed, thin as a rail. It was Bush, strung out on coke. When he first came, he was trembling with the shakes and almost hallucinating. (He wasn’t my patient, so I am not violating any therapeutic relationship by revealing this.) Current news reports indicate that he was supposed to be in Alabama, working on some political campaign. He wasn’t in Alabama, he was in North Carolina going through rehab. I heard his father was some sort of political big wig, but that was no surprise; every kid in there had rich parents. It went with the territory. So Bush didn’t attract much attention."

Does anyone know what campaign he was supposed to be working on? Who was running at that time?

[demgrrrll]

35. Winton Blount, a friend of poppy's. Rehab makes sense. n/t.

[Lexingtonian]

18. This is sheer rumor, but juicy fun

http://atrios.blogspot.com

Dear Atrios,

I met George W. Bush back in 1972. I was getting my Ph.D. in clinical psychology and interning at a private drug rehab clinic for the sons and daughters of the rich and powerful in North Carolina. It was tucked away in the hills, away from the lime light and promised the utmost discretion. I had to sign a half-dozen forms swearing me to secrecy to get my internship.

In the late summer, this kid shows up, looking like shit, wild-eyed, thin as a rail. It was Bush, strung out on coke. When he first came, he was trembling with the shakes and almost hallucinating. (He wasn’t my patient, so I am not violating any therapeutic relationship by revealing this.) Current news reports indicate that he was supposed to be in Alabama, working on some political campaign. He wasn’t in Alabama, he was in North Carolina going through rehab.

Haphazard Googling suggests Asheville, e.g. the Thoms or the Keith place. Provided this is not all a semi-perfected troll, of course!

[Zero Gravitas]

19. Just like his drug use "denial"

he said he could pass the no-drugs requirements in place for White House staff since 1974 or some similar non-denial denial.

So he wasn't technically a deserter but they don't say he was never AWOL.

They don't realize that no-one except for the most mindless followers believes anything they say anymore.

[MoonAndSun]

20. This subject is not going away, the more the repubs deny, deny

and deny, the more the American sheeple will start to think "maybe there is something to this story".

[FlyingEagles]

21. Bigger pictures

I dont want to stop the flow of discussions, I just dont see the point in focusing in on something so minor. This will fade in no time at all. Then we will be left with real politics again.
It is the same thing they did to us (the whole monica thing) during and it didnt work. Listen, Bush, love or hate the guy, might not be the smartest guy in the world, but he surrounded himself with some pretty smart and powerful people. And they all historically have been successful in playing down media "outbreaks". Those are the people I'm afraid of, not Bush himself. He is the front man...the real influence is the machine behind him.
Our stance on our core issues are what will speak to the people. We cant fall into the trap of relying on media outbreaks to win our battles. This is my first time on this board (thanks to a good friend)and noticing all the comments, I felt it could serve as an outstanding resource to collaborate on what we each could do to help our party. Venting can be fun, but I sure would like to see something good come of this. Time is short and we are certainly in for a tough election year. Lets face it, the RW has more power now than it has ever had. They have talk radio, many publication, they are making personal contact with people. Something we forgot. Any military strategist will say that wars are won in the trenches...so that is where we need to be. Make contact with the people. Not just feed into the flavor story of the day. I just dont see it being successful.
Ok...sorry again to interrupt the flow.

[Karenina]

23. Interrupt the flow?

It will take more than a pebble this time. *POS is pResiding over a whole lot of folks who are dying violent deaths as a direct result of "his" policies. It's a question of "character."

[Sapphocrat]

24. A few problems there...

...I just dont see the point in focusing in on something so minor. This will fade in no time at all. Then we will be left with real politics again.

Oh, but this isn't at all "minor"; it's certainly not "minor" to the men and women who actually serve(d) their country as they pledged to do. It's certainly not "minor" when a chickenhawk sends our youth to die in Iraq when he was too much a coward to risk dying in 'Nam.

It is the same thing they did to us (the whole monica thing) during and it didnt work.

But it did work, in spades. "The whole Monica thing" resulted in Clinton's impeachment -- remember?

Our stance on our core issues are what will speak to the people.

We'd all like to believe that, but even the most idealistic among us understands that this is precisely what does not work when it comes to rousing the American public from their infotainment-induced stupor.

We've tried relying on the real issues, and transcending the muck. What has that gotten us? An in-name-only "president," and a Republican-controlled Congress that's bullied through every crazy, half-ass, ruinous, needless bill into law, that's what.

The primary goal is to get Bush* OUT of office. After that, we can go back to being our caring, bleeding-heart, much-too-nice, left-leaning selves.

Until then, the only way to fight fire is with fire. We have been forced into taking a page from the Repuke playbook.

No, make that two pages: Keep the other side on the defensive at all times, and limit the amount of damage they can do on their own.

By the way, that is "real politics."

[FlyingEagles]

30. Wrong attitude

I'm sorry, I disagree.
We have to be smarter than that. In fact, it was that same attitude that our party publicly denounced after the "republicants" took control of congress. We cant just play into emotional high-lows.
And your not giving people enough credit. Easily influenced people are not the ones going to the polls. They may talk a good game, but they dont vote. Voters are now smarter and more involved than ever and research is proving that. Fighting fire with fire produces nothing but more fire. If you want to create impact and get different results, something new, throw in something different than fire.

[Sapphocrat]

42. You can disagree, but you'll find it difficult to deny...

...that "playing into emotional high-lows" has worked for the Bush* administration. Bush*'s entire "presidency" has been fabricated on the basis of keeping the American public in a constant state of fear.

No, I don't give the American public much credit at all. I do not think Americans are naturally stupid, but I do know most are sorely ignorant. Have you seen the study showing that those who get their news from Fox are most likely to believe Bush*'s lies and deceptions about the Iraq "war"? Have you ever wondered why such a sludge mill as Fox has such high ratings?

People are lazy by nature. They don't want to be made to think for themselves. And with Bush* mouthpieces like Fox -- and CNN, and right-wing radio -- to do their thinking for them, they don't have any reason to dig beneath the surface.

And if "easily influenced people are not the ones going to the polls," then why did nearly half the country vote for Bush* in the first place? Why did they dismiss Bush*'s abysmal record as governor of Texas? Why did no one pay attention to the drunk-driving arrests, the AWOL, the evasion of the cocaine question -- or any of countless other warning signs that, had they existed in the not-so-distant past of a man like Bill Clinton, would have eliminated Clinton from the running before he got to the starting gate?

Because the media deliberately ignored all these things, and the American people did not want to look past the pablum they were being fed in order to judge the truth for themselves.

I agree that voters "are now smarter and more involved than ever and research is proving that" -- and do you know why that is? Because they are finally waking up. But they have a long way to go in order to reach the necessary "paradigm shift."

It is human nature to resist any attempt to expose ignorance. If I show you that you were 100% wrong about something you were convinced was fact, you will do everything in your power to fight me -- because it is simply too painful for human beings to accept the revelation that they were duped. Nobody wants to admit he's been a fool.

Exposing the Repukes' wrongdoing and hypocrisy without threatening the fragile little bubble of Joe Sixpack's ego is the only way to bring Ol' Joe around. Exposing Joe's ignorance is what will backfire. And expecting all the "Joes" who tune in religiously to such tripe as "My Big Fat Obnoxious Fiance" to actually sit still long enough to digest the "real issues" is an exercise in futility; you're not about to turn the average American into a political scientist, and you're certainly not about to succeed at such an impossible task before the 2004 elections.

You're welcome to hang onto your idealism, but I'm afraid if you really want to rid the country of Bush* & Co., you're going to have to put that idealism on the shelf temporarily, and start dealing with pragmatics.


On edit: Stupid typo fix.

[Malva Zebrina]

55. Nice post but I am not sure that most people are lazy by nature

I do think that many people are lulled into complacency by indulging in the "bread and circuses". They want all the luxuries that are available, even though that means they are obsolete in two years. It means , to me, that most people are striving to obtain an image that would boost them into a percieved status that would put them above others.

In other words, it is the pecking order that is most important. And that pecking order pecks and fights so that some will come out in the higher position--because of what they own, not becuase of who they are or what they think or other less than indicators of their "worth"

So, if the goal is to be at the top of the "pecking order" then one will pursue that, no matter if the soul is sacrificed in order to do so.

The ego gets in the way. And we are all vulnerable. It is not easy to "know theyself" and to be happy knowing oneself.

There is always that impulse to control others in order to establish oneself in the higher realm on the pecking order.

[Zero Gravitas]

28. Disagree

Bush can't run on jobs or the economy or anything positive. Al he has is terra, terra, terra, & 9/11. The corporate media keep on about how Bush is a "decisive leader" and how we are "at war". Bush pretends to be some sort of military leader (remember the prancing about in the flight suit.)

If they are going to run on war and military leadership what better contrast to make than the pampered aristocrat who pulled strings to get into a TANG "Champagne unit" and then couldn't be bothered to show up compared to a guy who actually risked his life in combat? Who is better suited to make life and death decisions? a bona fide war hero or a chicken hawk who had to manufacture his own "intelligence" to justify invading Iraq?

This one issue alone could hammer home to even the most Fox News Propaganda addled Bush voter just how unqualified he is to remain in office.

[JoFerret]

29. You're forgiven but your try fails

bad news about Bush - aka the truth - needs airing. The man is hollow and yes he is not too bright and yes he surrounded himself with skilled and bright people BUT unfortunatelky they do not serve the American people but the BFEE and other corrupt and perverted unAmerican ends.

[CatWoman]

33. .....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=344587

[reprobate]

34. It matters to me and every other vet who ever served.

Don't try to tell me what's important. Every man and woman who ever served in our armed forces will thing this is the most important thing about bush. The fact that over 500 men and women have gone to their deaths over lies just bolsters the feelings that we have about * going awol for 18 months.

Unless you gave four years of your life to the country you'll have a hard time understanding the hatred and revulsion that vets feel when they thing of the coward in the white house.

Let me suggest that you put yourself in the place of the families of those that went to viet nam and never came home because they were bumped from the TANG waiting list to let this never-do-well in ahead of them. Then tell us it just isn't important.

This is not a republican or democrat issue. It's an issue of honor.

[FlyingEagles]

38. Everyone is missing the point

Guys, I agree with what your saying. And by all means I am pro-military as my grandfather served 26 years in the military as my Father served during Nam. My Daughter refers to soldiers only as "Hero's" and I taught her that. (I tried to join but physical complications prevented me)
I know how strongly we all feel about this. But that is just the point. It is all emotional.
Emotions always get in the way of good decision making and any successful business person will tell you that.
It is OK for us all to FEEL how we do about it, but emotionally led
tactics are not very strategic. I mean for crying out loud, since I posted my message, everyone attacked me and I'm ON YOUR SIDE!!!
We cant pull together for anything and that is what will beat us people!
Emotions aside!!! Act smart. Dont feel your way into actions! It is a proven recipe for failure.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

43. Hmmm. By your logic, Timothy McVay is a hero....

(And Welcome to DU, BTW).

ANYTHING that provides proof of Dubya's real character and habitual lying is a good thing to be dissiminated. This is one game of dodgeball where the target doesn't change til November. I say hit him with every negative news story we can find until he quits the game.

[JoFerret]

44. Heroes????

What crap is that? I thought that nonsense died at the Somme and Passchedndaele. Let's get real here.

[Terwilliger]

65. So, pointing out that Bush is not a man of wonderful leadership...

and military prowess is an emotional thing?

So.......when REPUKES bring up things like this (Clinton didn't serve, liberals are soft, etc.) then why do they stick and seem to be so detrimental when these issues are used against us?

Why is that?

You have answers for other things...how about this?

[Terwilliger]

66. any successful business-person would not be George W. Bush

since he failed at everything

[Pax Argent]

69. First off, welcome aboard. It gets kinda rough here sometimes

but the AWOL situation is a symptom of a greater problem. Personally, I don't really care about the kernal issue of the disputed timeframes. I don't even know if it is possible to be AWOL from National Guard duty. I plead my ignorance to this last part.

The part that gets to me is the almost hysterical denial of these allegations by the media. When Clinton was getting pilloried by the Right for some rather creative manuevers to keep himself out of the service, the media was right in there and yet, with the exception of the Boston Globe and the NY Times, they have been silent on Bush's issues. I don't know if there is truly any "there" there in regards to Bush/AWOL, but I know that I would die an old man before hearing the good puppy press say anything on this issue if it weren't for folks like Michael Moore.

In regards to feeling, I agree that rational thought is always the best approach, but that's not how Bush wound up in office. The media made the 2000 campaign about feelings and how one would want to have a beer with Mr. Bush while Mr. Gore seemed so stiff and wooden and doggone it, he was a liar just like Clinton. The media provides more than just data, it provides unsubstantiated beliefs and feelings. That is why the RW pundits are necessary. They act as the clergy for this Church of the Lie. Denial of this fact is naive.

That being said, I agree with you that most of our folks in the military deserve a great deal of respect. They keep our country safe and free, and they are not paid as much as they are worth doing it. I routinely pray to God to keep them safe and well and to have them returned safely from the hell-hole that the Bush Administration's lies have consigned them. That is the real sin that Bush has to atone for. In the light of this, you're right, the AWOL thing seems like noise.

[Terwilliger]

64. My question is...

why is it that you only post for the first time at a Democratic/Liberal board claiming that this "tactic" won't work and we should just leave it alone?

[flaminbats]

22. Too bad he will not deny lies spread by the right about Cleland or Kerry..

The GOP should be renamed the POW, pack of whiners...whining about shrub having too much responsibility, whining about being held accountable for big government and our weakened military, and now they whine whenever someone attacks shrub for his fraudulent service record. Maybe they would be taken seriously if they had defended such Democrats who have been viciously attacked, rather than joining in! But the hottest place hell has been reserved for hypocrites. :grr:

[eek]

25. we must make the term aWol = Clinton's dick

repetition repetition

this is a marketing campaign

[JoFerret]

32. Deserter, deserter

....it ups the ante. But yes...this story will die so pressure pressure on all the ills this deserter has wrought for education, health care, the military, world affairs, the economy, the environment and the basic faith and trust in government. What a disaster this deserter has wrought. If he had been a principled avoider of service in Vietnam then I would honor that.

[JoFerret]

27. Rate this Excellent headline

....keep it in the news, let's force the denial and spin from the WH

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0007]

37. Was the U.S. government paying junior for being absent from the...

National Guard? If so, could this become an issue? Was junior collecting his National Guard money in Alabama or Texas?

During the Korean conflict, if a soldier was absent he was listed as AWOL up to 30 days. After 30 days the soldier was listed a deserter.

[4dsc]

41. Make him release his military records

I am at a loss, for why democrat's are not asking AWOLbush, to release his military records!!

[kskiska]

48. Me, too

And I am also at a loss as to why Junior isn't simply releasing them to settle this once and for all. They keep falling back on that "honorary discharge" line, that doesn't prove anything. Poppy got him in the Guard, and Poppy could have gotten him out, honorably.

[Piperay]

45. 'Deserter vs. AWOL'

seems very 'Clintonian', next thing you know they will be asking for the definition of 'is'. :evilgrin:

[murielm99]

49. They have already done that, but on another issue...

we never said a threat from Iraq was "imminent."

[Zero Gravitas]

58. No kidding

the imminent threat thing made Clinton look like an amateur when it comes to the "careful use of language".

[4dsc]

74. When Dubya was AWOL... or was he?

http://goodgrief.typepad.com/goodgrief/2004/01/when_dubya_was_.html

Good read here about the whole thing..

I still say make him release his military records!!!

[maxsolomon]

47. it took 3, 4 years to get it out there...

twist in the wind, dubya. no matter how you spin it, the more you detail your record, the worse you look. they should have refused to address the entire issue.

way to go michael moore!

[peacetalksforall]

52. His AWOL should not be ignored....

It wasn't resolved when he was running and it may not get resolved now...but it should not be dropped....

. It enhances the Dem candidates by comparison.
. It puts him below Clinton.
. His admin is making horrible decision about vets.
. There is an excellent lead to follow with the Burkett story - if true, Bush's communication staff, Allbaugh and probably Bartlett who were working for him had the records cleansed.
. His string pullers and his parents want to pull this off and perpetuate the myth of military service.
. This is a simple issue that any non-involved citizen can understand.
. It deserves to be aired just for the fact that the right wing thought they could get away with grooming and preparing this cheerleading backslapper petulant and revengeful child for President of the United States. They thought they could surround him and carry him and that they could get away with anything because they thought then and still think they rule.
. But, if they can get away with assassinating people in character or in body, you can pull off something so relatively simple.
. He should be exposed just to negate the sham of the photo ops with the military. We spent a bundle on those photo ops and vets are reporting reversals in policy every day.

Investigate - chant for an investigation.

[Judi Lynn]

54. Ed Gillespie's remark at the end of the article?

Can anyone be sillier than this?

(snip) On Tuesday, his Republican counterpart, Ed Gillespie, angrily accused McAuliffe of "presidential character assassination" and said "there is no ambiguity" about Bush's time in the Guard.


"The president was honorably discharged from the National Guard. He served his time," Gillespie told CNN television. "And he fought -- he served in a very dangerous area, which is fighter jets."
(snip/)

HE FOUGHT? He fought?

[CatWoman]

56. Oh, come on JL

those pesky crawdads along the Houston beaches can put up a pretty mean fight :P

[Judi Lynn]

57. You know, I'm not sure he's the same man after he got back, either

I've heard war changes a man, haven't you?

God knows he suffered.



He deserves our thanks. I'm all for giving him anything he or his cronies wants, how about you?

[nibbana]

59. Didn't Jimmy Carter grant Bush amnesty?

Funny thought...:)

[BiggJawn]

63. No, Bush didn't go to Canada.

He hid behind his Poppy's pantsleg.

Amnesty for Objectors, not Cowards.

And wasn't it Gerry Ford who offered the amnesty?

[librechik]

60. Since Shrub is completely innocent, it should be easy to prove it.

The ball is in his court.

[Claire Beth]

62. absolutely

have dubya show his military medical records for the year he AWOL.

[wabeewoman]

67. Dee Dee Myers was on Hardball tonight

and said it had the potential to be a big issue. Tweety tried to brush it off as a class issue and tried to bury it that way. I don't think it will bury so easy this time. It is relevant when bush brags up his military service and even today, shows so little respect to the veterans or returning dead soldiers.

[Jack Rabbit]

68. Next time McClellan sounds off like that . . .

Next time McClellan sounds off like that, some brave soul should ask him just where the Frat Boy was when he wasn't reporting for duty during a period of almost two years.

[0007]

70. Was junior arrested for cocaine?

"Oct. 18, 1999 | A new book by Texas author J.H. Hatfield claims that George
W. Bush was arrested for cocaine possession in 1972, but had his record
expunged with help from his family's political connections. In an afterword
to his book "Fortunate Son: George W. Bush and the Making of an American
President" (St. Martin's), Hatfield says he took a second look at the Bush
cocaine allegations after a story in Salon reporting allegations that Bush
did community service for the crime at the Martin Luther King Jr. Community
Center in Houston's Third Ward."

...more

http://mail.psychedelic-library.org/show.cfm?postid=4984&row=20

Somehow these stories don't jive .....
"The center's executive director, Madgelean Bush (no relation to George W. Bush), had told Salon News and others that Bush did not do community service there, and the Bush campaign likewise denied the allegation. But the Texas governor had admitted to working at Houston's Project P.U.L.L. in 1972, and Hatfield says he began to wonder if that was actually the community service sentence. Hatfield says he confirmed those suspicions with three sources close to the Bush family he had cultivated while writing his biography, which publishes Wednesday.

more......

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/cocaine /

Now check out this PROJECT P.U.L.L. site. Can you image junior doing community service here?

http://www.projectpull.org/projpull.html

Lots of covering up going on, where are the investigative reporters? Or did the bucks stop at J.H. Hatfield?

[mn9driver]

71. It's easy for the White House to put this story to bed:

All they have to do is come up with the drill slips for the drills he did. When I did a few years of USNR duty after my active years, every time I showed up to drill, I got a receipt that was stamped/imprinted to show that I had performed duty. That slip was the way the Naval Reserve Pay Center in Cleveland knew how much to make my check out for.

If he drilled, there's a copy somewhere. No slip, no duty. No duty without an excuse equals unsatisfactory service. I'll leave it to the experts to decide whether it was UA, AWOL Desertion or just plain skipping out on a cherry deal that sent some other kid to 'Nam.

[librechik]

72. or the resulting paystubs--except he didn't get paid in Alabama;

he was a "voluntary" guardsman.

[antipov1]

73. Score one for the good guys

There is not much on earth that I love seeing more than the White House having to respond to something that Michael Moore has said in the past, (See: Stupid White Men, buy it, great book) also kudos to General Wesley Clark for not denouncing Moore, they both seem to be good guys and good luck to Clark in the rest of the primaries.

[rhino47]

75. If being AWOL for 30 days makes you a deserter

then shrubs in big trouble.Theres no statue of limitations on desertion.