BREAKING NEWS: Water overtopping Industrial Canal barrier in New Orleans, NBC reports

[Roland99]

Source: MSNBC


BREAKING NEWS: Water overtopping Industrial Canal barrier in New Orleans, NBC reports

Read more: http://www.msnbc.com

---

FOX News TV was also reporting it.

No other details yet.

[slackmaster]

1. I think I've seen this movie before

The Sun is shining, the birds are singing, a few people are partying in the streets, and water is pouring into the city.

[liberal N proud]

24. But this time Johnny is going to take care of the people

Unlike his mentor.

:sarcasm:

[lonestarnot]

2. And 3 vessels are loose threatening damage to the levees. 2 ships and a barge I think I heard.

[lovuian]

3. This is a replay of Katrina

Unfreakingbelievable

[Spouting Horn]

12. Yes, New Orleans

is STILL 12-15 feet below sea level.

[DogPoundPup]

4. That isn't the headline at all.

Is fabricating headlines now OK?

[stray cat]

7. You are late - they changed the headline - the poster was right when it was posted.

[torbird]

5. Now Wait a Damn Minute

It's a Cat 2 storm, smaller than Katrina. And it isn't a direct hit on NOLA, either. And there aren't any people around in the city to be in harm's way.

So how in God's name can this disaster be happening all over again? If the levees breach this time, under less severe circumstances than Katrina, then what the hell is going on with our government, FEMA, and the rest of us (who didn't hold Bush accountable for the first disaster)?

[WriteDown]

19. You can't build a levee wall...

that can withstand a barge hitting it. My question is "who left that barge there???"

[Tiberius]

27. Indeed.

You probably can't build a levee to withstand a a runaway barge. However, in some cases the levee strengthening and repair projects haven't been completed to guard against what they are there for... water. Was there no sense of urgency? Why couldn't that be completed 100% in three years? Oh, I forgot, doing it faster would probably have cost more money. So, instead, they gambled.

Let's just hope that the people of New Orleans aren't the losers in this gamble.

[Baclava]

6. Wavetops splashing over the bathtub - sorry - no disaster here

Category 2 at landfall and it looks like NO has escaped with very little damage, if any. Good news.
Just another rainy day.

[stray cat]

8. Hope you are right - however Katrina was a whimp coming in at a weak 3

compared to five as forecast and everyone was glad there was no problem as the city filled with water. I'll wait and see.

[ixion]

23. well, that is an understatement, to say the least... did you see the footage?

industrial canal had overflowed it's banks entirely, so much so that large tanks of crap where floating away. Also, barges had broken loose and were threatening a main city sewage line...

So I wouldn't say 'very little' or 'just another rainy day'.

[jobycom]

9. There's live coverage of that on WWLtv.com

They've got live video of the water topping the levees. It doesn't look catastrophic, and they think the water has crested for now, but they are worried about later flooding from increased rainfall.

Also, Mayor Nagin was just on, giving an update. Apparently a couple of barges were moved into the Industrial Canal, and some have broken loose and are banging against the levee (I haven't seen video of that). Nagin says they weren't supposed to be there.

There's an interesting discussion now. The Corp installed "Scour Protection" behind the levees, which is basically just a concrete roadway beneath the wall atop the levee, so that when the water tops the levee it falls onto this concrete, rather than on dirt, so that the water doesn't weaken the levee.

They just showed live feed from the Lower Ninth Ward (where the levee shattered during Katrina), and there's no flooding, so far.

Looks positive, so far. Nagin was cautious, warning about the raised level from rainfall that's still to come, and maybe even more storm surge on the lake, but still, so far, everything is holding. Cross fingers.

This is all a normal hurricane so far. Hurricanes like this make hurricanes like Katrina more dangerous, because people think "I've been through them before, I can wait out the next one." I've even seen a couple of DU thread titles mocking McCain for "overreacting" on this. You have to overreact for hurricanes like this, so that you will be prepared when it turns out like Katrina.

[stray cat]

11. Katrina was also much much weaker than forecast and was not a direct hit

We have yet to have a major (above a weak 3 range) hurricane score a direct hit on NO - but Katrina was proof it didn't take a perfect storm to be catastrophic.

[jobycom]

20. Partially yes, partially no.

Katrina was weaker than forecast when it came ashore, but the storm surge was twice what was predicted, and that did impact New Orleans even though the heart of the storm passed to the east. The storm surge topped the levees in New Orleans east on the lakes and along MR GO, and it helped raise the level in Pontchartrain, which prevented the drainage canals from draining into the lake--since the lake water was higher than the canal water. That may have contributed to the levee failures along the lake (it certainly caused the levee break on the Industrial Canal, through MR GO).

So, yes, Katrina was weaker than predicted in terms of windspeed, but the storm surge was much higher than predicted, and that caused most of the damage in NOLA. Not excusing the Army Corp for inferior designs and shoddy workmanship on the levees that failed, just saying that Katrina was more than a thunderstorm.

The Saffir-Simpson rating system is flawed, because it measures only wind speed, and not size of hurricane, potential storm surge, and other factors that contribute to destruction.

[stray cat]

28. Thanks for the info - I didn't realize the storm surge had been underestimated

[jobycom]

30. To give an idea...

Hurricane Camille, in 1969, was the strongest hurricane to hit the US mainland. People claimed that the storm surge was 30 feet, but the experts swore that was impossible, that it was closer to 20 feet, and that a 30 foot surge was pretty much impossible even for a Category 5. The estimate for a surge on a Category 3 was 12 to 15 feet, so that's what they were expecting from Katrina.

Katrina's confirmed storm surge was over 30 feet. Houses that were high and dry during Camille went underwater during the much "weaker" Katrina. I was four when Camille hit, and we lived in Bay St. Louis, where the eye passed. Our house didn't get water. That same house is a service station now, and it went completely underwater, roof and all, during Katrina.

Jim Cantore was at the VA hospital, which he chose before the storm because it was 30 feet above sea level. During the hurricane he reported that they had two feet of water where he was.

I didn't hear anyone predict that. Part of it was the size of the storm, which allowed it to push more water before it, and part of it seems to have been because of the loss of wetlands in Louisiana over the last couple decades, which meant that Katrina had to cross less land than Camille (they took the same path). But whatever, the storm surge was unprecedented.

[txwhitedove]

31. Excuse me, the "direct hit" was on Bay St. Louis/Waveland, MS, and

it sure as hell felt like a perfect storm to those of there at the time. I'm still bewildered why "they" briefly tried to downgrade Katrina to a Cat 2 after the fact. H.Alicia on Galveston was a Cat 2, and I was there too. H.Katrina was incredibly, immeasurably louder, wilder, longer, scarier, more destructive, and then with a tidal surge that tried to wash us all away.

Damage in New Orleans was no less traumatic, but it was due to levee failure.

[Roland99]

13. Thanks for that update

[GoesTo11]

10. Overtopping makes for splashy TV coverage

But it' s just splashing, not disaster movie stuff.

Now that they've set up to make this their major coverage, they really want to have some money shots.

[stray cat]

14. Reporters are stating water pouring through a levee and not just over the top

hopefully not true....CNN

[EFerrari]

15. I haven't seen that on the live coverage. n/t

[stray cat]

16. CNN - not confirmed so take it with a huge grain of salt

[jobycom]

21. There's no mention of that on WWL, and they are very thorough.

Certainly the IC levee is holding--they are covering that heavily. Maybe one of the drainage canals, but they aren't reporting that. I haven't seen anything about a breached levee, and that would be big news.

[rug]

17. I'm sick of these Palin threads.

[HooptieWagon]

18. BREAKING NEWS: Water overtopping Industrial Canal barrier in New Orleans

Water seems to break wherever Palin goes...

[jobycom]

22. I appreciate the humor, but I hope this doesn't get silly.

Some of us are pretty tense about this.

[cal04]

25. Water clears levees as Gustav makes Louisiana landfall

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/09/01/gustav/index.html

Hurricane-force winds slammed into oil terminals around Port Fourchon, southwest of New Orleans, as the eye of Category 2 Gustav was churning just off the Gulf shore Monday morning, according to radar.

The eye of Hurricane Gustav made landfall near Cocodrie, Louisiana, about 9:30 a.m. CT (10:30 a.m. ET), the National Hurricane Center said.

Winds were sending whitecaps over levees in New Orleans, but the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers reported no major problems.

There were reports of water going over a levee near a railroad bridge, said Chris Macaluso, a spokesman for the Louisiana Office of Coastal Protection and Restoration. The Port of New Orleans will raise the bridge to ease pressure on the system, he said. Watch water spill over the levee »

According to forecasts, Gustav -- which was downgraded to a Category 2 hurricane when its winds weakened to 110 mph (177 kph) Monday morning -- is expected to skim New Orleans, which is still recovering from 2005's Hurricane Katrina.

[Baby Snooks]

26. And now two ships and a barge are loose in the canal....

www.nola.com

The canal was supposed to have been cleared of all ships. If one of these ships or the barge bangs up against a weak spot in the levee, the levee of course will break. Assurances were given to the mayor that all the ships had been removed. But weren't. You have to wonder.

[brooklynite]

29. DETAILS from the Times-Picayune

A small river of water is rushing down North Robertson Street toward Poland Avenue, coming from water splashing over the western side of the Industrial Canal floodwall. Army Corps of Engineers officials said the spillage does not pose a major threat.

Water is overtopping for several hundred yards on the Upper Ninth Ward side of the Industrial Canal on both sides of the Claiborne Avenue bridge. Poland is parallel to the canal.

Army Corps of Engineers said that the walls are designed to handle the overtopping without incident. The floodwalls have been strengthened since Katrina and are equipped with cement "spash pads" to prevent scouring from water coming over the walls, officials said. On the scene, the spillage was landing on the cement pads, which reduces its impact at the base of the wall.

"We're confident in the stability of that wall," which was fortified after Hurricane Katrina, said Karen Durham-Aguilera, director of Task Force Hope for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Officials are out in force at the scene. The overflow areas appear to be greatest on the river side of Claiborne.

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf/2008/09/report_water_coming_over_indus.html

[Lisa0825]

32. Water coming over levee in New Orleans

Source: USA Today



Update at 12:25 p.m. ET: Karen Durham-Aguilera, an Army Corps of Engineers official, says wind is lapping waves over the levee wall at the Inner Harbor Navigational Canal on the east side of New Orleans.

"It is not a breach, it is not overtopping," she says, adding that the water level at the canal is still a few feet from the top of the wall.

She predicts water levels in Lake Pontchartrain and Lake Borgne will rise. So far, the Corps has not had to lower flood gates along any of the drainage or outflow canals that flooded the city during Hurricane Katrina.

The Corps did lower the flood gates at the Harvey Canal on the west side of the city to keep the Mississippi River from flooding the area.

Read more: http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/09/photo-shows-wat.html

[geomon666]

33. What of the reports that water was coming through the levees? n/t

[Barack_America]

35. I didn't believe it, but CNN has some pretty clear video footage...

Of water spewing out from one of the levees. I'm not sure which levee specifically, but their reporter who mentioned it initially said that it would affect the Lower 9th ward (if it's the same one that's leaking).

ETA: I should specify that the video specifically showed water seeping UNDER the levee.

[nvme]

34. my prayers to the folks there and

those who are displaced

[aaronbees]

36. Battered, but not flooded, St. Bernard Parish survives Gustav

Some good news (so far) for St. Bernard Parish....

Battered, but not flooded, St. Bernard Parish survives Gustav
by Paul Rioux, The Times-Picayune
Monday September 01, 2008, 8:40 PM

When Hurricane Katrina swamped St. Bernard Parish with up to 15 feet of water, emergency preparedness officials had to be evacuated from the roof of the two-story government complex in Chalmette.

As Hurricane Gustav bore down on southeastern Louisiana, a 20-foot ladder was lashed to the side of the building to make it easier to climb down into rescue boats. But this time the water never came.

Gustav caused no flooding and minimal wind damage Monday in St. Bernard, a huge morale boost for residents still recovering from Katrina's wholesale destruction.

Packing sustained winds of up to 70 mph in St. Bernard, the storm blew shingles off some roofs and toppled an occasional tree, but the vast majority of homes appeared unscathed.
A 90-minute drive through neighborhoods from Arabi to Violet revealed a single broken window.

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf/2008/09/battered_but_not_flooded_st_be.html