Bolivian Armed Forces Reject Chavez Intervention

[Bacchus39]

Source: El Universal (Venezuela)

http://www.eluniversal.com/2008/09/12/pol_ava_fuerzas-armadas-de-b_12A1983245.shtml

Fuerzas Armadas de Bolivia rechazan la "intromisión" de Hugo Chávez
01:06 PM La Paz.- El comandante en jefe de las Fuerzas Armadas de Bolivia, general Luis Trigo, advirtió hoy al presidente Hugo Chávez y a la comunidad internacional que rechazan las "intromisiones externas de cualquier índole, vengan de donde vengan".

the commander of the Bolivian Armed forces, general Luis Trio, warned Chavez and the international community that they reject "foreign intervention of whatever type, wherever it may come from."

Las Fuerzas Armadas de Bolivia "no permitirán que ningún militar o fuerza extranjera pisen territorio nacional", aseguró Trigo durante una comparecencia ante los periodistas, en la que leyó un comunicado junto a otros jefes militares, señaló Efe.

The Bolivian Armed Forces "will not permit any military or foreign force to step foot in national territory", assured Trigo during a press conference, where he read a communiqué together with other military chiefs.

Chávez aseguró ayer que si a su homólogo boliviano, Evo Morales, lo "derrocaran" o lo "mataran" le estarían "dando luz verde para apoyar cualquier movimiento armado en Bolivia".

Chavez assured yesterday if his Bolivian homologue, Evo Morales, was deposed or killed he would give the green light to support whatever armed movement in Bolivia

"Al señor presidente de Venezuela, señor Hugo Chávez, y a la comunidad internacional le decimos que las Fuerzas Armadas rechazan enfáticamente intromisiones externas de cualquier índole", señaló textualmente el comunicado leído por el general Trigo.

"to the president of Venezuela, Sr. Chavez, and to the international community we say that the Armed Forces emphatically reject
external intervention of whatever type", he stated from the text of the communiqué read by general Trigo.



Read more: http://www.eluniversal.com/2008/09/12/pol_ava_fuerzas-armadas-de-b_12A1983245.shtml

[justaregularperson]

1. Does this mean they are thinking of a coupe and are warning them to stay out?

[Bacchus39]

2. I think the Bolivian military is saying "no thanks" to Chavez

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-09/12/content_9941872.htm

CARACAS, Sept. 11 (Xinhua) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Thursday pledged military measures in support of Bolivian President Evo Morales should the elected leader be overthrown by opposition forces.

Chavez said in a televised speech that his government would give a "green light" for military operations if the Bolivian opposition attempts to overthrow or kill Morales.

"If any or our governments is overthrown, we will have a green light to perform military operations of any type to give the power back to the people in those countries," Chavez said.

[happydreams]

11. Got anything to back it up Baccu? Dont' tell me you are

stupid enough to suggest that Hugo would go against Morales. :eyes:

[Bacchus39]

13. ummm.... did you read what the Bolivian military said????

feel free to come to your own conclusion

[ann_american2004]

17. Hi Bacchus39

Morales pretty much had the Bolivian military take over all armed jobs, like private security and police functions earlier. The Bolivian military does not favor any type of other military in the country, that includes not only US armed forces but Chavez as well. They are also against foreign embassies having their typical amount of protection. It irritates them. As for country affairs, of course as any country would expect, the Bolivian military wants to handle things on their own. The Bolivian soldiers often poke fun of Chavez but it doesn't mean they don't support Morales. But Morales, if the Bolivian army turns on him, has no other armed group-really armed group, not pitchforks- to protect him. At this point however the military is composed of lower income men who have gotten a significant income increase under Morales and their loyalty is with him.

Chavez's statement could be taken two ways - that he wants to help, or that he wants to move in (especially since Russia is so fond of him these days). Either way the Bolivian military doesn't like it. It is an insult. It would be like Mexico saying to us, "Hey just so you know dudes, if your election is stolen again this year, we will come in and make sure the rightful candidate is made president" whatever the intention it would never sit well with the actual people/military of the country. It would be, of course, an occupation.

Anyway saying that. Chavez and Morales can rot in hell, either way, whoever the Bolivian military loves this week. Now I am going to duck out before SHREW shows up and spouts her bullshit nonsense for all to hear while my parents live in fear and sadness everyday. Be well Bacchus.

[maryallen]

34. Funny that: An American expert on Bolivia ...

Was on Tom Hartmann's show Friday and he believes that a wealthy Bolivian group -- sponsored by the CIA and some American group that wants to bring "Democracy" (read: American Imperialism) --is planning a COUP to overthrow Morales ... sort of like they did to Chavez. Remember that, ann, anti-american?

[reorg]

14. Exactly. "If we plan to overthrow our government and kill the president, that's our business ..."

Except they'd have the backing of you know who.

[Bacchus39]

3. any thoughts on Chavez's war mongering from the buttkissers??

this story doesn't seem to be "acceptable" to the Chavez loving crowd.

[JDPriestly]

4. I am not a Chavez fan, but do you know whether this

statement from the Bolivian military was authorized by Bolivia's elected leader?

[Bacchus39]

5. no, I don't but its a good question. Does Morales have control??

its seems to me events are unraveling rapidly in Bolivia, for Chavez its simply grandstanding. Morales kicking out the US ambassador is not going to solve his internal problems which appear grave at this point.

[AlphaCentauri]

9. "his internal problem" has been the same of the previous presidents, POVERTY

and a bunch of white elitist

[happydreams]

12. So you think that the thugs trying to overthrow Morales are in the right?

I know yer a fascist baccu and believe in thugery, but I'd still like to see you reply.

[ann_american2004]

20. wouldn't surprise me a bit

Bolivia has had a history of revolving door presidents in the past, presidents, dictators or presidents who became dictators, overthrown, resigning, moving to Palm Beach, etc.
They always think they will last forever. But people dont usually like it when you decide to rewrite their Constitution. The only safe haven city for Morales now is La Paz, really. Lucky for him the government moved from Sucre to La Paz long ago. It is surround by the Andes and altiplano. Great location for defense. Unless of course your own people turn on you. Just ask Che...oops cant. He's dead.

[ann_american2004]

22. I wonder if

Chavez might be offering his 'newly aquired' cold war era Russian planes incase Morales decides he wants to subdue Sucre, Santa Cruz and Cochabumba? Scary thought. So far Morales has said he will try negotiations from his safezone in La Paz. All the western-minded intellectuals fled to Sucre, Santa Cruz, Tarija and Cochambumba, or those few that are still in the country along with Bolivia's youth. Because it is actually the youth who are protesting against Morales. Everyone can get a college education in Bolivia, it has been that way for a long time. These young adults are those who understand what is happening to their country because they had free education. They understand what it means when one man thinks he has the right to rewrite their Constitution and does it.

[High Plains]

24. You are really spouting the rightist shit, aren't you?

Just what do you own in Bolivia?

[davidinalameda]

29. anything that paints St Hugo as less than perfect isn't acceptable to them

[happydreams]

38. You didn't read it Baacoo. Chavez put conditions on any future actions.

...Chavez assured yesterday if his Bolivian homologue, Evo Morales, was deposed or killed he would give the green light to support whatever armed movement in Bolivia...

[bemildred]

6. This is a case where Chavez ought to shut up.

The commander's comments are to be expected. No military force is going to be happy about offers to arm and train guerillas in his ballywick, unless they are HIS guerillas. It will be interesting to see what Evo has to say, if anything.

[The Magistrate]

18. Indeed, Sir: Mr. Morales Ought To Have The Final Word Here

If he is overthrown by coup or more violent means, there is certainly nothing wrong with a stronger neighbor stepping in to support a legitimately elected government against armed rebellion, and if this is what Col. Chavez is actually contemplating, there is no sound objection to it, save the question of can he succeed at it. If President Morales is ousted by legal means, Col. Chavez would not have a leg to stand on, unless the situation deteriorated to civil war or extremities of repression against the Bolivian people.

[bemildred]

23. Agreed.

What I wanted to question is the advisability of bringing it up right now. I tend in the direction of giving Evo whatever support he wants, and forgetting to mention it in public.

It would be interesting to speculate about what this fellows motives were, but I think we will find out soon enough.

[joeglow3]

7. That country is a frigging mess.

An old client of mine had a power plant there (1 of 2 they had in foreign countries). It was always weird when I looked at their list of fixed assets and saw machine guns on it. Every month we had an update meeting and there was always something going on down there (coco riots, government interventions, etc.). The best was a year or so later when the owner was quoted in the paper saying “I would sell it if I could find someone dumb enough to buy it.”

[AlphaCentauri]

8. Is he including provocateurs from other countries?

[Bacchus39]

10. ask him!!! apparently for Morales it includes unsubstantiated claims

of provocation.

[struggle4progress]

25. Is Washington Undermining Democracy in Bolivia? (Feb 2008)

By Mark Weisbrot, AlterNet
Posted February 16, 2008
Bolivian officials say Washington is trying to destabilize and even topple their democratic government

This week's news that the U.S. Embassy in Bolivia has repeatedly asked Peace Corps volunteers and then a Fulbright Scholar to spy on people there is much more serious that it has so far been treated. In fact, together with other activities funded there by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) and National Endowment for Democracy, there are grounds for a Congressional inquiry ...

USAID has a special "Office of Transition Initiatives" (OTI) that is operating in Bolivia, funneling millions of dollars of training and support for right-wing opposition governments and movements, and trying to influence other political actors as well. According to USAID, "OTI intervenes rapidly and undertakes quick-impact interventions through short-term grants that catalyze broader change." The OTI also claims to support democracy, but they appear to be mostly supporting the "white separatist movement" that has already had four governors declare their provinces autonomous, threatening to break up the country ...

http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/77256/is_washington_undermining_democracy_in_bolivia/

[struggle4progress]

26. "... The Bolivian government .. has .. denounced Goldberg's secret meetings with local opposition

authorities, the latest held with prefects Savina Cuellar (Chuquisaca) and Ruben Costas (Santa Cruz) ..."

US Ambassador Non Grata, Bolivia
http://www.plenglish.com/Article.asp?ID={A101DD22-CE47-49E4-9320-6A264E6B4601}&language=EN

[struggle4progress]

15. Morales calls for talks, rules out armed clampdown on protesters (AFP)

LA PAZ (AFP) — Bolivian President Evo Morales on Friday ruled out an armed clampdown on deadly street clashes between his backers and anti-government protesters and called for talks with opposition leaders.

At least eight people were killed and a dozen injured in a third day of violent clashes in parts of the country Thursday, as a diplomatic crisis escalated over the expulsion of the US ambassador to the country.

Despite pressure to show a "firm hand," Morales told journalists in a central region that he was the "first to ban the army and police from using firearms against the population."

The government "will keep favoring dialogue, for the dignity and unity of the country, despite provocations" from opposition leaders, Morales said, calling for talks at 2000 GMT in the presidential palace in La Paz ...

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i7bOpDw4wSU8ti9c_yYCqlBN79lw

[struggle4progress]

16. U.S. Should Disclose Its Funding of Opposition Groups in Bolivia and Other Latin American Countries

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x383679
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/bolivia120908.html

[Judi Lynn]

19. Very not so shabby group authored that statement!

From your link to the statement by the Center for Economic and Policy Research:

The Center for Economic and Policy Research is an independent, nonpartisan think tank that was established to promote democratic debate on the most important economic and social issues that affect people's lives. CEPR's Advisory Board of Economists includes Nobel Laureate economists Robert Solow and Joseph Stiglitz; Richard Freeman, Professor of Economics at Harvard University; and Eileen Appelbaum, Professor and Director of the Center for Women and Work at Rutgers University.

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/bolivia120908.html

It's about time, isn't it?

[Pavulon]

21. Russians and Leftists =

suitcases of money to make problems go away. That is a very old policy. Odd that is is coming back in to relevancy.

The suitcases were literal at one point now they are figurative. But the money and purpose is still there.

[Peace Patriot]

27. You mean that you BELIEVE the Bushbot U.S. attorney in Miami?!

:rofl:

You are so gullible, Pavulon!

[Peace Patriot]

28. Notice that they address it to Chavez AND "the international community."

Chavez often says what other leaders are thinking but won't say. In this case, I think that Argentina and Brazil are probably considering intervention, because their interests are most directly involved. They are Bolivia's chief gas customers--and the white separatists that our Bushwhacks have been funding and supporting in Bolivia are blowing up their pipelines, for godssakes!

These leaders are all friends, and have no doubt been on the telephone these last few days. They've probably discussed calling a meeting of the OAS or the Rio Group, to take some action--possibly an international peacekeeping force. This Bush-fomented disorder in Bolivia cannot be permitted to continue. Naturally, the Bolivian military feels resentful--the implication being that they can't keep order in their country. Maybe they can, maybe they can't. But, from their point of view, they feel dissed.

So this is likely why they address the communique to "Sr. Chavez and the international community." They know what's being talked of. It's not just Chavez. He's just the only one who said it publicly.

------------

On a related topic, explain this to me: Morales nationalised Bolivia's gas resource, and re-negotiated the contracts, DOUBLING Bolivia's gas revenues from $1 billion to $2 billion/yr! Most of the gas is in the white separatists' provinces. Although Morales took about $50 million of the gas revenues to create a national pension ($35/mo!) for the elderly poor, there is still PLENTY OF GAS CASH to go around. They could all be rich. Instead, the white separatists are causing serious disorder. Why? Also, none of the proposals in the new constitution--which was created by public assemblies (which the white separatists boycotted!)--is all that bad, from the white separatists' point of view. In fact, the new constitution permits semi-autonomy. So, WHY are they ripping the country to pieces? Is it mainly the Bushwhack funding and encouragement? Is it mainly racism? Are they like Exxon Mobil--they want ALL the profits, and are not willing to play by the rules and take any social responsibility?

It just seems so--what is the word? Suicidal? Self-defeating?

The white separatists are really not in a very good position--for all the trouble they are causing. Bolivia is land-locked, with leftist democracies (Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Chile) on four sides of it. These governments support Morales, and have been cooperating with him. For instance, Chile just settled a 130 year old conflict with Bolivia over Bolivia's access to the sea. Brazil and Argentina both announced that they would not trade with any secessionist provinces of Bolivia. Paraguay (adjacent to the eastern provinces) just elected a leftist, thus cutting off the likeliest possible staging area for U.S.-Bush military support for the white separatists. And about a month ago, Brazil and Venezuela announced that they are funding a huge new project to build a road from the Atlantic to the Pacific, through Bolivia. They simply wouldn't be doing this for the white separatists. They are doing it for Evo Morales. The same with the sea access from Chile.

So, the white separatists, who are trying to secede and take the gas/oil resources with them, will lose the biggest gas customers, have no route to get the gas to other customers, have no friendly governments in the neighborhood, have no easy way to obtain military support from the U.S. (or Colombia--the other malefactor). (Peru--also on Bolivia's border--might cooperate with the Bushwhacks, but their corrupt government has a 20% approval rating, and problems of its own. I don't think they want trouble with the leftist majority of the continent.) And the white separatists' insurrection is making them 'persona non grata's' throughout their region. Who will trade with them? Who will recognize them? On top of all this, Morales just won 67% of the vote in a national referendum on his presidency--winning 40% to 50% of the vote in the troubled provinces--so they do NOT have unanimity in their provinces. I read one analysis of that election that showed that the entire secessionist movement is largely confined to one city, Santa Cruz.

It looks to me as if the Bushwhacks--playing on these peoples' greed, racism and lust for power--have provoked them into something of a suicide mission, on behalf of global corporate predators. They are dupes, patsies, puppets. I know there is some genuine local feeling about having more autonomy (and there is a history to this east-west conflict in Bolivia), and it isn't all racist. But they can have autonomy without destroying the country. They won't talk. The OAS has tried. The Catholic bishops have tried. Morales has tried. Everybody has tried to talk to them, to reach a compromise. And instead they go around rioting, killing poor peasants and blowing up pipelines. They seem insane. Bushwhacky insane--is my guess. Delusions of grandeur and bully power.

[Peace Patriot]

30. What is the Bushites real purpose in stoking this disorder in Bolivia?

I've outlined above how self-defeating it is, for the Bush-supported white separatists. But what are the Bushites' motives? They, of course, hate the democracy movement in South America. They are thieves, plunderers, murderers, and democracy gets in the way of their greed and bloody-mindedness. So, on general principles of fascism and hatred, they would stoke trouble--civil war, riots, beatings, murder--wherever they could, in a democratic region. "Divide and conquer" and destabilization are classic fascist strategies. They have been unable to sow serious disorder in Venezuela, not for lack of trying (they've tried everything--a violent coup, an oil professionals' strike, assassination plots, more coup plots, a U.S. taxpayer funded recall election, etc.--to no avail). They've been unable to make a dent in the leftist president of Ecuador's popularity (80% approval). But in Bolivia, they found a weakness--the already racist, greedy separatist minority--and have utilized it to create mayhem.

I don't think they're doing it just for the hell of it (--although, with Bushites, you never know). But it's not easy to see the strategic advantage to Bushwhack Corpos of a fascist enclave in Bolivia, even if it were to establish a stable, fascist mini-state in control of the gas/oil reserves. I suppose they could use it to bully the leftist governments of Brazil and Argentina (who depend on Bolivia's gas). The fascists would likely privatize the gas, rake off some profit, and no one else (the poor) would benefit. That might be satisfying to Bushites--but would they cause this big of a row, just for those limited purposes?

I've said it before--and I'll say it again--I think their real target is the oil-rich state of Zulia, Venezuela, on the Caribbean (and adjacent to Colombia). Zulia has one of the richest oil fields in the world. It is Venezuela's main oil state. And it is very vulnerable--much more vulnerable, ultimately, than Bolivia. It has a fascist cabal that has talked of secession. The Bushites recently reconstituted the U.S. 4th Fleet, which is now roaming off the coast of Zulia. Bolivia may be a diversion--and a way to weaken a Venezuelan ally--and also it may be a test run of the secession strategy. The Bushwhack Bolivian mess makes much more sense in this context. And this may well be why Chavez reacted so swiftly--kicking the U.S. ambassador out of Venezuela (in protest of Bushwhack activity in Bolivia)--and why he invited the Russians over for naval maneuvers. Because he knows. Zulia is a "sitting duck."

The Bush junta really cannot regain global corporate predator control of the resources in the heart of South America. But their plan may be to create a leftist-free zone in the Caribbean and Central America (which is moving left very quickly). If they grabbed Zulia, they could stop the low-cost oil shipments to Cuba, for one thing. And they could better exert bully power against rebellious clients like Honduras; they could punish Nicaragua for going leftist; they could intimidate voters in El Salvador and Panama (where leftist candidates are leading in the polls). They could insure the shipment of Venezuelan oil to the U.S. (Chavez has several times threatened to cut off the oil, if they mess with him any more.) And they could cripple the Venezuelan government, by depriving it of the oil revenues. They don't give a fuck about education, medical care, food for the poor, local development, pensions for the elderly, or anything else that is good, kind and forward-looking, of course. It wouldn't bother them in the least to starve the poor. And they might even get themselves a rightwing government of Venezuela, if they could squeeze the poor hard enough. But I think that would be a secondary goal. The primary goal is to get the oil--and carve out a sphere of influence for their global corporate predator pals.

[PATRICK]

33. We are in a strange war already

with Russia making its own moves instead of being prone suckers for distractions like Georgia. they are returning the favor by moving against the Bush Doctrine in SA, which might end up in coups and even invasions before he leaves office. If this is all a temporary smokescreen, or better, bluff, by either side, it most certainly has to do with the central game of Iran and oil wars. The Bush Doctrine is effectively gutting the Monroe Doctrine along with everything else, much of it bad.

I wasn't up to facts on why Bolivia(or georgia for that matter) provided the key linchpins in these grand moves. Someone is running the board like a chess game in blatant disregard for the main powers and deviating for a brief time from the main objectives. Checked on blunt direct moves instead we see this- and who the hell is in charge if this intentional? Gates? Cheney? This is massively unsustainable for a lame duck and denotes a rather intelligent plan(if that is what it is on our side or Russia's) that maybe just like the "face on mars". Maybe it is a world of dumb in nest of subplots and old subversions gone awry in frustration. There is some indication, in the scornful words of Putin for that too.

Putin's dissing Bush seems to deride actors behind the scene who think to play the game without Russia either knowing or acting in effective response. So now we have Russian ships on maneuver, thumbing their nose against the entire Cuban Missile Crisis victory of 1963 and much of SA goes left and anti-Yankee capitalist pig. And Mexico's threatening future collapse, and Bush's haven under the guns of the most honest and fearless man to head Paraguay's government. Frustrated by not hitting Iran? Think you have punished Russia with the South Ossetia mess? Here we are in SA bigger time than ever and what are you going to do?

I think foreign policy on the sly, vigorous, ruthless and determined to get the agenda done is in total disarray even if the spotlights refuse to turn on in America. Gates needs to take stronger steps to head off this nonsense, but I doubt he is up to it either. The world also needs some sort of mailbox to get through to our even more blindsided Congress.

[happydreams]

39. hmmmm...we need a rundown of the separatist leaders connection to WWII Nazi

Klaus Barbie who found a home there after WWII and was instrumental in the 1980 "Cocaine Coup". In all probability these thugs trying to destabilize the Morales admin have a history in this.

[Judi Lynn]

40. I would like to look into your idea later. There's a ton of stuff out there to be tracked down.

Klaus Barbi, can you believe it? Jesus. "The Butcher of Lyon," living in Bolivia, actually WORKING IN THE BOLIVIAN GOVERNMENT, re-located there, and protected by the U.S. CIA until he was taken back to Europe, at long last for trial.

There's a Croatian who is a dominant racist separatist, Branko Marinkovic. I'll look for more on him, later, and post it. I have read that when he makes trips to his old home, he tells the people in speeches there that he's fighting "communists," or some such crappola, in Bolivia. He should be more honest and tell them he is fighting the native Bolivians the racists have tortured, murdered, and wildly persecuted over the years. God knows how much outside money he's raking in, from his fellow monsters.

Letter From Bolivia: Morales Moves By Christian Parenti
This article appeared in the June 19, 2006 edition of The Nation.

June 1, 2006

~snip~
If there are dark clouds on the horizon for MAS, they come from two directions: a discontented far left and a bellicose, possibly US-backed lowland-rancher-based right wing. But the two threats are almost mutually exclusive. If the right moves against MAS, the left will likely unite. If the right sits by and tolerates a few defeats, then the left could make Morales's term hell with demands for accelerated social change and economic redistribution.

Most frightening so far seems to be the Santa Cruz-based far right. Rumors abound of Colombian mercenaries training on big Bolivian ranches. And several Cruzano political figures, like Ruben Costas, prefect of Santa Cruz province, have intimated that they will "resist domination" from the central government. Branko Marinkovic is one of the Cruzano heavies. He is president of the Federation of Private Industries in Santa Cruz, a big rancher and like many elites in Bolivia's east a descendant of Croatian immigrants. He tells me he's made his peace with the gas nationalization, but he sounds ominous, if conflicted, on other issues. "Land reform could lead to civil war," says Marinkovic in Texan-flavored English, the product of six years studying at the University of Texas, Houston. When I ask if he is building a private militia, as is rumored, he is dismissive. "That's BS. Just BS. I am running a huge business here. I am not involved in anything like that." What else could he say?

Then, sounding less menacing, Marinkovic tells me he's even "OK with" the government's plans to tax land sales. "If that stops speculation, fine," he says. The Cruzanos were also relieved when García Linera said the government would not limit the size of ranches. The point seems to be that big, even huge, ranches are acceptable as long as the owners are investing their capital to employ people and produce food. The government's threat of confiscation might even cause some Cruzano speculators to take money out of distant financial markets and invest in real economic activity in Bolivia. For the time being, that's all MAS can ask for--a less parasitic, less volatile, fairer version of market economics.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060619/parenti/4

[happydreams]

41. Oh boy. I have alot of stuff on this. The coke coup coincided with a huge

influx of cocaine into the US as Poppy Bush became Reagan's "Drug Czar". Alexander Coburn's book "Whiteout" shows a direct link between Barbie his company Merex, drugs, guns and working with Ollie North's Contra Supply network!

This crisis here in Bolivia could also be a great opportunity to dig into these affairs deeper. Barbie obviously had alot of support from Bolivians. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me to find some of his offspring in this separatist movement. :tinfoilhat:

Don't forget that in 1987 Bill Moyers aired a documentary about Barbie and his links to the US Intelligence Community. It is one of the most stunning documentarys I have ever seen. Moyers simply rocked!

Title: The Secret Government:
The Constitution in Crisis
A PBS Documentary




Check this out. It fits with what you've presented here.


Village voice article copy in my notes from Martin section:
http://www.ufomind.com/area51/people/lear/hansson2.html
Regarding Bush's involvement with Nazis, the Village Voice reported on Nov 1, 1988 in "The Real Nazis Behind Every Bush," that "the seven protofascists given the boot by his campaign team two months earlier had been part of the GOP's systematic recruitment of the most extreme rightwing elements in the Eastern European ethnic communities of the United States... The Bush ally with perhaps the closest ties to Hitler's Germany was Yaroslav Stetsko, whose group, the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations , was a prominent participant in a 1983 White House meeting featuring talks by both President Reagan and the vice president. Bush signed a photograph taken at that meeting 'To the Honorable Yaroslav Stesko, With Best Wishes, George Bush.' ...Stetsko (who died in 1986), was an extreme Ukrainian nationalist who collaborated with the Nazis in World War II as the very short term "prime minister" of the "independent" Ukrainian puppet government set up in the Western Lands of the Ukraine, or Galicia. Within two years of the establishment of Stetsko's regime, more than 100,000 Jews were exterminated in the Galician capital of Lvov, according to captured Nazi documents

[ohio2007]

32. white seperasts white seperatists white seperatist .... lol

You must be thrilled about what the white Russians are up to down there in Georgia

lol

[EFerrari]

35. They are white separatists. What does that have to do with Georgia?

[ohio2007]

31. to late.Bolivian 'state of siege' declared

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3486135

Anti-Morales insurgents threaten Bolivian pipeline

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/09/09/bolivia.unrest/index.html?iref=newssearch

[Peace Patriot]

36. Too late for what? Morales has moved to restore order in these provinces--

where rightwing thugs are running rampant, killing people, trashing government buildings, blowing up a pipeline--and he met all night with a representative of the rebel governors to work out a compromise. If Morales didn't do this--restore order--Brazil and Argentina would. Brazil gets HALF its gas from Bolivia. They can't have their pipelines being blown up. And they have said that they will not tolerate the overthrow of the legitimate government nor recognize, nor trade with, any secessionist states.

I just read that Michele Batchelet has called a meeting of UNASUR--the new South American "Common Market"--to bring all parties together, and reach a resolution. This could result in a Latin American peacekeeping force in Bolivia, if these crazy white racists continue rioting and killing people, and the Bolivian police and military cannot get control of the situation. The white racists have disgraced themselves. The U.S.-Bush has disgraced itself by supporting them. And I think the South Americans will handle this problem themselves--and will be stronger for it, ultimately.

Do you know anything about these secessionists? You challenged my use of the term "white separatists," above. They ARE white racists, and they want to separate into white-run states, and not have an indigenous president. As Judi Lynn has informed us, as recently as the late 1950s/early 1960s, the indigenous were not allowed to walk on the sidewalks in Bolivia--when these white Bolivians ruled. The indigenous were used as slaves, and treated as subhuman--and some of this white dominance behavior is still in practice today in these secessionist provinces. They appropriated all the land, kicked the indigenous farmers out, and created the vast, landless, poor, indigenous population we see today. To correct it, there must be land reform, and other reforms. And Morales' reforms are not draconian. They are a mild program, compared to what was done to the indigenous majority, historically and recently.

The secessionists are much like our own slave-owners and segregationists in the south, and like the white racists in South Africa--and, indeed, they imported white racists from South Africa, in the last century, to boost their numbers and grab more land from the indigenous. They are dinosaurs, and they have that crazy violence that is peculiar to white racist dinosaurs. They need redemption, of the kind preached by Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela and Gandhi. That is actually the reason that Morales has not struck back at them. He is committed to non-violence. But he has clearly had to realize that they need to be restrained, and that police/military presence is required to restore order. Some think he waited too long. I sympathize with why he didn't act sooner, but I'm glad that he acted now. It's NOT "too late." The mayhem and murder must be stopped. And, hopefully, sanity will prevail in these provinces--where 40% to 50% of the people voted for Morales, and where even the separatists must realize that their cause is disgraced, and the rest of South America is now going to act to stop this disorder and to bring these idiots to the bargaining table.

[High Plains]

37. Too late for those Bolivian Confederates, I hope.