Commuter train in fatal wreck ran red light

[Dr.Phool]

Source: MSNBC.com

Commuter train in fatal wreck ran red light
Official says engineer failed to stop at signal; death toll at 24


updated 45 minutes ago

LOS ANGELES - A commuter train engineer who ran a stop signal was blamed Saturday for the nation's deadliest rail disaster in 15 years, a wreck that killed at least 24 people with more bodies still to be pulled from the smoldering, twisted metal.

A preliminary investigation found that "it was a Metrolink engineer that failed to stop at a red signal and that was the probable cause" of Friday's collision with a freight train in Los Angeles' San Fernando Valley, Metrolink spokeswoman Denise Tyrrell said. She said she believes the engineer, whose name was not released, is dead.

"When two trains are in the same place at the same time somebody's made a terrible mistake," said Tyrrell, who was shaking and near tears as she spoke with reporters.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26680908/

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When are they going to rebuild the rail system in this country, and keep passenger trains and freight trains on separate tracks?

[ogneopasno]

1. When will they stop outsourcing things like engineers and conductors?

I read on latimes.com that the Metrolink engineer and conductors were subcontractors. WTF?

[RetroLounge]

15. and how would that have made a difference?

She said the engineer worked for a subcontractor, Veolia, used by Metrolink since 1998, but had driven Metrolink trains since 1996.

:shrug:

RL

[Zuiderelle]

21. Exactly. It wouldn't have made a bit of difference, except that the subcontractors are probably

more qualified than if the engineers worked directly for the railway.

[Dr.Phool]

25. Not a chance.

You work for the railway, and that's all you work. You're more intimately involved with the operation on a day by day basis.

[TheCowsCameHome]

16. Many commuter systems are operated by outside outfits these days

and their people are often just operating the trains under a different company name. They all have to adhere to rules and regulations under federal and state laws.

There's no unqualified people operating trains that I know of, at least in the big leagues. Having just one person in the cab is the way these days, and that's the RR's policy.

This was a tragic incident, no two ways about it.

[Dr.Phool]

26. Boy, are you living in a dream world.

When I came up through the ranks to become an engineer, it took 5-7 years of on the job training to be completely qualified. Later I became an instructor. They expected me to turn out qualified engineers in 60 fucking days. It was impossible.

But the corporate assholes just couldn't understand that. There's a certain feel that you develop over a period of time, that's impossible to teach in that short of a time.

[TheCowsCameHome]

33. Dream world, really?

Here's something to think about:

Some engineers will never in a thousand years have the skills and proficiency that others will acquire in a fraction of the time. One guy I fired for couldn't even get an automobile drivers license because he was such a nervous wreck, but he did 40 years with the railroad and never that I know of faced discipline or caused an accident.

This guy in CA was a 1996 hire, so I'd have to guess he had substantial running time under his belt. What caused his actions Friday is anyone's guess. You name it, it could have been anything. A-n-y-t-h-i-n-g.

The MBTA in Boston contracts out commuter rail operations, and their employees came over from Amtrak, CSX, and previous commuter roads, the only difference is receiving a paycheck with a new heading.

I had a lot of their current hoggers as trainees over the years, and they are by and large a heads-up bunch. The T's contracted operator flat-out rejected any potential transferee that had discipline issues on previous roads.

Beancounters in management love the concept of incubator engineers, that's where the problem lies.

[roody]

2. Did the engineer survive it?

[Dr.Phool]

6. Apparently no, but not confirmed.

[givemebackmycountry]

3. With all due respect, and I mean that...

Our rail system is a rusted out, decaying joke.
Other countries have high speed rail, flying at 350 mph+ and never encounter a freaking freight train.
I never have been able to figure out why I couldn't board a high speed train in Kansas City and be in...
Denver in 90 minutes or St. Louis in 45 or Chicago in 90 or Dallas in 2 hours.
Watching the scenery blaze past in a blur, in my comfortable seat as safe as I could be.
I just don't get it.

[npk]

4. I agree.

We have failed miserably to keep up with our network of rail lines. We have abandoned rail travel infrastructure for highway and roadway infrastructure, and we can't even keep up with that.

[lewtang]

28. It was never the government's job to maintain the rail infrastructure

It was always on the backs of the railroads (until recent decades when states began offering grants and loans to refurbish lines). Trucks have always had the advantage of a subsidized roadway, but railroads have to pay to maintain their own to very strict rules set by the Federal Rail Administration. This is of course leaving out the fact that trucks can go anywhere there is a road, trains are pretty limited.

The last thing the rail industry needs is to go back to the regulation days before the Staggars Act. Government regulation did more to destroy the railroad industry than to help it. It helped nail the coffin into railroads like the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific, the Milwaukee Road, and the utter disaster that was Penn Central (and nearly caused the destruction of successor Conrail). These railroads wanted to do get rid of lines that were killing them financially, but because they were common carriers they were not allowed to do so. In the end instead of a few customers losing rail service entire railroads disappeared and thousands of people lost their jobs.

Even though there are far fewer rail miles than there were 50 years ago, traffic and carloadings are up, way up, to the point where railroads can't even handle the increased volume. The railroad I work for is suffering a near meltdown due to an increase of traffic no one would have predicted a decade ago.

[Thothmes]

20. All you have to do is nationalize the rail way system

and pour a several billion dollars into it and you may be able to do that.

[lewtang]

29. Freight is what pays for the railroad to operate

It was proven even in the 1950s that, outside of areas like NY/NJ, that passenger rail was not only unprofitable but an incredible financial strain on the entire railroad. What do you think contributed to the financial ruin so many railroads faced going into the 70's? The forcing of railroads to run passenger trains.

There is no long-distance high-speed passenger service here because there simply is not enough people that want it or would use it to make the huge financial burden of building and operating a line anywhere near viable.

[Make7]

5. What safeguards, if any, are there if an engineer is unable to stop?

If the engineer of a train has a heart attack, stroke, seizure, etc., is there any mechanism that will stop the train from running a red light? Certainly it would be technologically feasible to prevent a train from running a red light if there is loss of control for some unforeseen reason. Should such a system have prevented this accident?

[Dr.Phool]

7. I don't know about passenger, but freight has a dead-man pedal.

Something that has to be manipulated, every so often, otherwise the train goes into emergency stop.

[Thothmes]

18. they also have a buzzer sound ever so many minutes

The engineer has to push a button to silence the buzzer. If he do not do it within a set time, the train automatically starts to brake to a stop.

[Fumesucker]

11. According to a poster on GD..

There is supposed to be a device which automatically applies the brakes six seconds after the light turns red if the engineer has not already done so.

[Dr.Phool]

13. According to the article, he passed through 2 yellow signals.

Yellow means proceed with caution. I'm thinking he should have had a flashing red, which means prepare to stop.

And these "fail safe" systems they put in, aren't always.

[Fumesucker]

17. Yes, the poster made the point that the safety system was probably not present..

And the yellow signals mean to slow to a certain fairly low speed and prepare to stop.

[RamboLiberal]

30. No safety system on that line

Friday's disastrous collision that took the lives of at least 25 people might have been prevented if Metrolink and the region's freight railroads had installed sophisticated warning and control devices, according to safety experts who have been calling for such improvements for decades.

The National Transportation Safety Board, which investigates crashes and recommends ways to avoid them, began calling for the technology 30 years ago, after a train wreck in Louisiana. The safety board has repeatedly advocated the technology for high-risk corridors where freight and passenger trains operate side by side.

Southern California has more freight trains and commuter trains sharing tracks than any other place in the United States. But railroads and commuter lines here have not installed the technology, which is in use in parts of the Northeast and on routes between Chicago and Detroit.

Railroad officials have said the collision avoidance systems, known as positive train control, cost too much and are not yet reliable enough to install nationwide. That response frustrates safety experts.

"I'm not surprised that once again there has been a terrible, preventable train collision," said Barry M. Sweedler, a former senior director of the NTSB, who retired after 31 years. "It's extremely frustrating. They know what to do to solve these things."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-control14-2008sep14,0,3375659.story

[lewtang]

27. What railroad did you work for?

On the western roads after every yellow signal ("approach") he should have been expecting a red ("stop"), the rule for an approach typically reading something like "proceed prepared to stop short of next signal. Trains exceeding 40mph (varies road to road) immediately reduce to that speed." It sounds very likely this engineer may have misjudged where the next signal was, since the only way is to "know your territory" as my rail instructor taught us. It's also pretty likely, on a high speed line such as this, he should have received a flashing yellow (advance approach or approach medium, depending on the railroad) indicating the next signal should be no more restricting than approach.

Flashing red on this railroad would likely be a "restricting" aspect, meaning the train had to pass the signal at restricted speed, as defined by the General Code of Operating Rules as a speed that allows the train to stop within half the distance of vision.

[pointblank]

22. If this country

and our society in general would stop wasting money on unnecessary wars, lining the pockets of corporate elites and other wasteful spending we could upgrade our infrastructure, fight disease properly and take care of our own people...

its the same with all of the other technology this country COULD have if we would get our collective heads out of our asses...imagine what we could accomplish...

[asteroid2003QQ47]

8. "rebuild the rail system?" There will be no trainwrecks inDowneast Maine

As I write the Governor is ripping up the tracks for a
Snowmobile/All Terrain Vehicle Trail.

[Dr.Phool]

9. Same thing here in Pinellas County, Fla. (St. Pete- Clearwater)

The Pinellas Trail, is, at last count 47 miles of abandoned CSX track, paved over for jogging, bicycling, etc. Nice trail for recreation, but we really need some commuter rail in this area.

[Thothmes]

19. Look at the scrap value of 80 lbs rail.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

31. It's a feeding frenzy to get the rails to market. n/t

[jpgray]

10. This never would have happened to Dagny Taggart.

[NV Whino]

12. LOL

[NV Whino]

14. California is trying to get a measure passed for a high speed train

from LA to Sacramento. This will play hell with the proposition. It shouldn't, of course, but the dimwits will be going: Oh no! Trains crash. We can't pass the prop!

[Politicalboi]

23. As of now

The engineer did die in the crash. It was possible he was texting. Not confirmed but it's possible. They interviewed some teens who had contact with the engineer and they got a message just one minute before the crash. But the news channel says that they would have to check the engineers phone when it was sent. They say the Metro-Link was going 40MPH. For Metro-Link that is slow so maybe he tried to stop but was too late. Or since there was a curve maybe the train adapts the speed. I don't know, but I have seen them buzz the tracks in Simi Valley Ca and they haul ass.

[kestrel91316]

24. I also heard the report about the texting.

Sounds entirely plausible to me, given this town's complete obsession with cell phone use and texting while driving, having their cat examined at the vet, making their bank deposits, and probably while having sex with their significant other.

You should hear the populace screech at the prospect of a law banning texting while driving.

[bean fidhleir]

32. The profit motive conflicts with EVERY OTHER motive

No public utility should have a profit motive involved. The desire for private profit trumps all other considerations. The very *best* that can be done when a profit motive is involved is to hope to prevent all the little cost-shavings that eventually lead to disaster - it's guaranteed to be a losing battle!