Hadron Collider forced to halt

[IndianaGreen]

Source: BBC News

Plans to begin smashing particles at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) may be delayed after a magnet failure forced engineers to halt work.

The failure, known as a quench, caused around 100 of the LHC's super-cooled magnets to heat up by as much as 100C.

The fire brigade were called out after a tonne of liquid helium leaked into the tunnel at Cern, near Geneva.

The LHC beam will remain turned off over the weekend while engineers investigate the severity of the fault.

A spokesman for Cern told the BBC it was not yet clear how soon progress could resume at the £3.6bn ($6.6bn) particle accelerator.

While the failure was "not good news", he said glitches of this kind were not unexpected during testing.


Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7626256.stm

---

Add to that the fears by some that LHC might create mini black holes that will swallow the Earth, this latest incident does not add to my confidence level. Shall we mention the cost of LHC?

[villager]

1. Anybody seen any loose strangelets, btw?

n/t

[Tunkamerica]

8. I thought they were called gravelings n/t

[villager]

15. Weren't "Gravelings" from "Dead Like Me?"

n/t

[Tunkamerica]

21. yep, watching it now

[POAS]

30. I thought I was the only fan of that show!

[SoCalDem]

59. we LOVED that show..shame on SHO for killing it

It was just starting to really flesh-out..and then ..gone..

[truedelphi]

12. many many of those strangelets were floating around Wall Street this week

In the wake of the fiscal black holes that were blowing apart the world's monetary system.

[villager]

no question -- your description of observed phenomenon checks out!

n/t

[truedelphi]

22. Whew! I was winging it with that remark,

Much like the time in an Electronics 101 quiz when I said that the elves and fairies were what made the electricities work,

A male friend of mine complained to the teacher that I wasn't marked wrong because I was female. And he wanted to object for my playing the gender card.

The teacher said that since it is impossible to exactly explain how electricity works, my explanation was as good as any. (That was back in 1978 - and the Scientific Great Minds may now be closer to being able to explain its workings. You probably have to use Maxwell's missing equations though, no?)

[villager]

23. Or perhaps Maxwell's Silver Hammer?

Or is it just too dang late at night?

[Jamastiene]

2. So, did they all sound like Alvin, Simon, and Theodore for a while after that?

"The fire brigade were called out after a tonne of liquid helium leaked into the tunnel at Cern, near Geneva."

I'm just waiting to see what's on the other side of the black hole... :popcorn:

[TaffyMoon]

6. A Million Sarah Palins Probably

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Book Lover]

3. self delete

[Oregone]

4. This is really unfortunate. This was the best time to activate it.

Economic times are harsh and many less-fortunate people with cleaned out 401Ks do not have access to quality Aspirin or handguns, making suicide somewhat reserved for the elite. The LHC offered us a way to equalize the playing field, to offer affordable, quick, and equal death, via blackhole, to all depresses (and non depressed alike) citizens of our country. This is another step away from liberalism, in my opinion.

[Duppers]

11. WTF

did you forget the sarcasm icon or something?

Hey, folks, we got ourselves another technophobic science hater here.

[truedelphi]

14. I'm not sure it is a science hater, or just someone who lost a lot

Of money via the Lehman bros stock market debacle.

[Duppers]

20. I was thinking the post was about irony until ...

I read this sentence: "This is another step away from liberalism, in my opinion."

Perhaps I'm just too sleep-deprived? :eyes:

[freedomnorth]

29. Perhaps he just doesn't like liberalism?

[Duppers]

33. then why the fuck is he posting here?

:eyes:

[Oregone]

36. Just a joke...damn man

I don't hate science! Only through science will we free ourselves from Xenub and Zifnu and reach the eternal 8th plan of spiritual happiness. And you don't need a black hole to do that!

[Duppers]

55. My apologies. Thanks for the explanation

I thought I was again reading one of the many anti-science / technology-phobic posts.

You've seen those here, right?

Anywho, I'll lighten up. ;)

[populistdriven]

31. LOL! Maybe a sun-stroked canvasser...

[cosmicone]

35. This is no big deal and nothing to be afraid of

Superconducting magnets quench frequently -- happens even in the MRI scanners. Usually caused by a short-circuit of a portion of unsuspended wire which defies superconductivity and generates heat.

The SHC is not going to create black holes that could swallow the earth. There isn't enough matter in there to create such a black hole.

[Oregone]

37. "The SHC is not going to create black holes that could swallow the earth"

Sounds like a lousy waste of money then.

[Jamastiene]

43. ...

:rofl:

[Taverner]

42. Yes wouldn't you need the mass of a small star imploding to do that?

Mass doesn't create itself...

[cosmicone]

47. Yeah. n/t

[Buns_of_Fire]

48. Does Gary Coleman count as a small star imploding?

[cosmicone]

50. ok in the interests of the joke...

(and temporarily giving up polite decency) ..

Gary Coleman cannot qualify ... to make a black hole, the star has to be a white dwarf ...

[FVZA_Colonel]

5. I'm just waiting for the inevitable Resonance Cascade Failure.

I've got my crowbar ready.

[rch35]

24. when the head crabs come, we'll be ready,

[Blue_Tires]

54. "Gordon doesn't need to hear all this -- He's a highly trained professional!"

[evlbstrd]

7. It's just the alpha version.

It's not like we'll ever know it's gone out of control.

[Duppers]

9. please stop peddling that black hole crap

The 2 physicists here tell me that that's not gonna happen and they gave me many reasons to support their statement
(none of which I comprehend :crazy: ).

[truedelphi]

17. Did they explain that the black holes created by Hadron Collider may already have occurred

And that You and are posting in the sole remaining alternate reality!!

[Dudley_DUright]

27. Make that three physicists telling you not to worry about "black holes"

Here is a good page on why the LHC is safe:

http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/en/LHC/Safety-en.html

I would not worry too much about the magnets either, since at worst some may have to be replaced. I quenched a superconducting magnet once in graduate school and although I boiled off lots of liquid helium very quickly, no permanent damage to the magnet occurred.

[enlightenment]

39. Why is the term "quenched"?

To quench something generally means to suppress it (like a fire) or satisfy it (like thirst).

Apparently here it means to allow a superconducting magnet (I have no idea exactly what that is, btw, so will make gross assumptions) to heat up beyond what is expected/useful/safe.

Sort of the opposite of "quench" to my mind . . .

*and I don't think this is going to make black holes, either - just itty-bitty big bangs?*

[gkdmaths]

40. to quench a magnet...

isn't hard. A superconducting magnet is cooled to cryo temps, usually with liquid helium that is held at near absolute zero with the assistance of liquid nitrogen. The low temps allow it to conduct electrons with virtually zero ohms of impedance. Once the magnet "quenches", or becomes less conductive (usually the cryostat fails), a cascading positive feedback loop occurs: that is the magnet warms and becomes less conductive, because it's less conductive it heats up further...on and on until you hear the sound.

before you know it, the magnet is fried and electrical energy is converted to heat and usually a bad noise. Np more spin for you!

In our NMRs we change cryogen fluids weekly. We've quenched it once. It's "only" 50A current. "Only". I imagine that the collider's magnets conduct more current and the noise was very special. It costs >50k to fix when we fry a magnet. we usually keep a paper clip levitating underneath to verify that it's still conductive.

[enlightenment]

41. So, to "quench" in these terms means

to lose the ability to transmit energy?

In essence, suppressing movement.

Okay. That makes sense!

*and that may be a first - history I know, science makes my brain "quench"!*

Thank you! :)

[Dudley_DUright]

45. Basically it means that a piece of the superconducting wire

heats up and goes normal and then that piece gets hot due to the current and drives nearby segments normal in a cascade called a "quench". It is the "superconductivity" that gets quenched, but it can suddenly boil off a huge amount of Liquid He. I was talking like Donald Duck for a week. :-)

[Zhade]

52. THANK YOU.

NT!

[TomInTib]

10. "swallow the Earth,"?

Is there something I should know?

Maybe buy some better wine?

Not get new guitar strings?

Help me, here.

Tom

[Duppers]

16. really

Humor's the best way to handle garbage, I suppose.

;)

[TheEuclideanOne]

32. Swallow, baby, Swallow

You say that as if it is a bad thing. I, for one, am rooting for the black holes. Maybe watching too many political videos on DU and following the current election is bringing me down. :)

[Bake]

44. Buy the wine and guitar strings. Skip the mortgage payment.

At least when you go, you'll be comfortable and digging the great tone of the guitar (I hope it's a Martin!).

Bake

[TomInTib]

46. 1931 OM 28.

One of my favorites (along with my George Washburn New Model).

[Bake]

57. Nice! Very nice indeed!!

Since we're going to be swallowed up in a black hole anyway, can I have it?

:rofl:

Bake

[snake in the grass]

13. Defective collider?

Gordon Freeman where are you when we need you?

[tabasco]

18. I guess they better get out the yellow pages

and look for a good hadron collider repairman.

[Lionel Mandrake]

19. Shall we mention the cost of debunking a myth?

Contrary to what you may have heard,

1. Electromagnetic fields from cell phones and power lines won't give you cancer, because the photons at these frequencies don't have enough energy to ionize any molecules. The only forms of electromagnetic radiation that can give you cancer are ultraviolet light, x-rays, and gamma rays. Electric power companies have spent big bucks trying to reassure their customers that the "currents of death" are a myth.

2. Similarly, the LHC at CERN won't destroy the Earth. The energies of collisions that the LHC can produce are many orders of magnitude smaller than those produced by some cosmic rays, which have been raining down on the Earth for billions of years. If such collisions could create dangerous black holes, it would have happened a long time ago. Unfortunately, a concerted and expensive effort by physicists and others will be required to counteract the pernicious myth that is making some people afraid of the LHC.

[sudopod]

26. THIS

Flying Spaghetti Monster, save us from these ridiculous rumors.

[lynnertic]

56. Excuse me, but "Mobile phone use 'raises children's risk of brain cancer fivefold'"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3501873

Hot off the presses by UK's Independent...

[sudopod]

25. Sigh

Are you srs?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

28. what a shame

:)

[muriel_volestrangler]

34. Hadron Collider halted for months

The Large Hadron Collider near Geneva will be out of action for at least two months, the European Organization for Nuclear Research (Cern) says.

Part of the giant physics experiment was turned off for the weekend while engineers probed a magnet failure.

But a Cern spokesman said damage to the £3.6bn ($6.6bn) particle accelerator was worse than anticipated.
...
"But we do know that we will have to warm the machine up, make the repair, cool it down, and that's what brings you to two months of downtime for the LHC."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7626944.stm

[quiet.american]

38. My biggest two concerns with this thing are:

What horrific weapon will be designed out of whatever they discover (I'm assuming the U.S. didn't pour $500M+ into this thing for kicks)

and

If they're hoping to recreate the Big Bang, how exactly do they intend to contain the result? If they had to call the fire dept. in because of a faulty magnet, who's supposed to come to the rescue if this thing spins out of control.

[lynnertic]

49. Positively sonic

Sarah Jane saves the day!
quick, someone write the fanfic!!

[bsdetector]

51. I don't care about the cost, it's not my money. But I would gladly have contributed to building

a similar device in my own country, the U.S.A.

[Codeine]

53. We tried.

We began work on a MUCH larger (54 miles around vs. the LHC's 17 miles) project in Texas called the Superconducting Supercollider. In one of President Clinton's least-inspired moments the the project was canceled. It was a blow both to US science and the advancement of particle physics in general.

[Nevernose]

58. Within site of Crawford, coincidentally

In a town called Waxahachie. IIRC, it wasn't Clinton but congress in their usual fit of "science is a waste of taxpayer's money" pique. It was either that or the ISS, and while Clinton did try and save the supercollider, he didn't try very hard.