Unbelieved SCAM continues: "Mr. Paulson is resisting efforts to limit the pay of executives" (WSJ)

[jordi_fanclub]

Source: Wall Street Journal

(NOTE: Please, scroll down to the Wall Street Journal paragraph with sub-title: "Resisting Efforts" and read the scam detail)

"... Mr. Paulson is resisting efforts to limit the pay of executives whose firms participate in the program and plans to fight it "hard," according to a person familiar with the matter. He fears that provision would render the program moot, since many firms might choose not to participate.

There seems willingness to negotiate on other issues, such as how Treasury hires asset managers to oversee the immense investment portfolios it soon could own..."

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122200573768460503.html

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. Guys like paulson know who their future bosses are.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

73. He looks after his own especially his pals at Goldman Sachs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Paulson

[SharonAnn]

158. And Phil Gramm's UBS bank, by including foreign banks in bailout.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

175. Indeed he does...

[glowing]

2. Fuck them and their Golden Parachutes... If banks don't want the money,

then let them fail... Sorry, but maybe this is just what we need.. Perhaps, we should make a US BANK and print our own wealth. STOP taking loans from the Federal Reserve with interest... They tell all of us who want to get out of debt to stop using the credit cards.. The US needs to stop using the credit cards.. and if they need capital, take over some businesses like Exxon and Walmart.. Then we'd be flowing in dough.

[Allyoop]

147. Let them fail!

My financial adviser's opinion is that this is just good money after bad and that what has been proposed will not work. She's a smart cookie and I trust her judgment. At the very least, what Obama proposes is absolutely necessary. The gall of Paulson to ask for no transparency, no accountability, no oversight! What a crock! What a crook!

[peacetalksforall]

169. What a crock! What a crook! What a great sign. Is there time to organize

a nationwide protest march? A nationwide protest write-in?

Bailout
Investment Fund
Profiteers Schemers
Politicians Friends
Investors

Want -
No transparency!
No accountability!
No oversight!

What a crock!
What a crook!
What crooks!

NO WAY!

Investors -
Take your loss
Don’t dump on us.

Your scheme
Your meme
Suck it up

Single mother
Pays for a guy worth a million or more?

NO WAY!

Disabled veteran
Pays for a lady who drives a Jaguar?

NO WAY!

[Tansy_Gold]

3. Well, if they don't want to participate then they can just

go bankrupt.

Seems fair to me.



TG

[BrklynLiberal]

6. Makes sense to me...Let 'em eat cake!!!

[Miss Chybil]

4. If they don't want to take our money they can kiss our ass.

How dare they? We don't WANT them to participate. We don't NEED them to participate. If they can make it on their own because they want to keep their golden parachutes, let the bastards burn! I couldn't give two cents. And after they sell their companies and their customers down-river because they didn't want to take a pay cut, they can all sit their asses in jail. Plain and f'n simple.

[Triana]

10. EXACTLY. f*ck them. WHO CARES if they "choose not to participate". Pffft! n/t

[harun]

88. If these firms are in good enough shape to "choose not to participate" why are they

being assisted in the first place?

[TankLV]

104. DING! DING! DING! We've got a winner!!!

Then the LIES they've been peddling us this past week are all just BULLSHIT!!!

[enlightenment]

144. That was my first thought, also.

WTF?

I thought the global economy would implode if they didn't get the bail-out and their businesses failed?

I'm starting to think the only thing that's going to fix this mess is tar, feathers, and a few rails . . .



*this was actual a satirical print in a British newspaper, as you can see from the bestial faces of the colonists - but it gets to the point!*

[LiberalFighter]

160. Require that if they don't participate they do not receive a golden parachute...

if they fail to perform their fiduciary duty and the company is not properly solvent. And the govt can investigate 5 years after they leave the company and take away any benefits over $100,000. (Maybe cap it less or more) Even if they don't participate.

[melody]

5. Don't these idiots realize how far to the left they're pushing the electorate?

Liberals protect the system from extremes but we can't do a lot with these nitwits.

[Two Americas]

21. there it is

Is that the job of liberals? Keep the people from moving to the Left? That clears up a lot of confusion. Seems to be working.

Damned nitwit neocons. If they keep this up, the public will catch on and be demanding another New Deal. We liberals need to fight that. If the people figure the scam out, then where will we be?

[bread_and_roses]

42. Yeah, I noted that too...it is, alas, all too often too true...

...which is why I no longer use that fine old word, "liberal" in any but a sardonic, perjorative sense anymore.

[melody]

54. Oh, please

Sorry, I think extremes of every kind are dangerous to the system. I think ideology is the primary road to idiocy. Anyway, I'm talking about liberal thinkers ... the adjective not the noun.

[TankLV]

105. Oh please your fucking self...we NEED a return to "liberalism" whicn BTW honey, is NOT the "extreme"

by any means...

"Extreme" would be socialism or communism, not "liberalism"

It's bullshit thinking such as YOURS that got us into this mess in the first place!!!

[melody]

137. I said specifically that extremism isn't liberalism

I am a liberal. But most far-left people are not liberals.

[Zhade]

153. Why are you even bothering to discuss the likes of Stalinists and Maoists?

You know, ACTUAL far-left types?

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Two Americas]

128. oh...

No need to apologize. Interesting ideology you have there. I think you are being a little extreme though, don't you? Worrying that the public is going too far to the Left?

Why is "proecting the system" such a worry for you? You are taking a pretty extreme position on that.

If you were using liberal as an adjective, as you now claim, you used an adjective as the subject in your sentence.

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occulus]

135. And yet, you're the one who called pulling to the left and a new New Deal "extreme"

Interesting. Don't know why you hit the alert button, either, as there wasn't anything there on which to alert.

[Name removed]

136. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Two Americas]

145. that is a smear

I made no personal attacks and my post was not profanity-filled.

You are also making the unsupported and malicious charge that people are using multiple user names.

And you are characterizing those who disagree with you as "extremists" and as "far Left."

Many liberals are rejecting the proposal from the Bush administration, and so are more and more people in the general public. They are not all "extremists" nor "far Left." That means that those who disagree with you are not all "extremists," nor do all liberals agree with you on this.

Trying to discredit those with whom you disagree, when you have no rational argument to make, by calling them far Left extremists and the like is red-baiting and McCarthyism. It has no legitimate place in any intelligent discussion.

[Runcible Spoon]

159. what the fuck are you talking about Melody?

Not only is Two Americas one of the most polite and compassionate members on the board, I have NEVER seen TA do ANYTHING remotely deserving of an alert. You, on the other hand, are quite scary with your fear of XXXtreme leftism :eyes:

[burrowowl]

7. K&R!

Other than not wanting Court oversight (go to Bloomberg) to quote a friend: Worse than that--the $700 billion is a rolling amount--like a revolving charge card in reverse. They can have as much as $700 billion in assets based on what they paid for them, rather than what they're worth. So, they buy $700 billion worth of crap at premium prices, sell it for crap prices, and then buy more crap at premium prices. Plus, Paulson gets to pick which private firms manage the accounts and what fees are paid to them. It's a giant swindle.

Edited to say: Contact your Congresscritters! Call them now!

[truedelphi]

96. They have imposed a credit limit of eleven TRILLION and a half dollars

So what if our economy GNP is only that much per year (In fact, with the economy the way it is, this year's GNP might be far less.)

How much is One trillion dollars. If you gave me one trillion bucks and I spent one thousand dollars every six minutes, in sixty some years I would be broke.

On the other hand, it would probably take Halliburton two years!!

[Shardik]

8. Another K&R and a serious WTF?

They'll be storming the Bastille once again if this shit continues.

[Triana]

9. They might "choose not to participate"?! SO? FINE. THAT'S the DEAL - you take LESS pay to play

...or you DO NOT play.

Those CROOKS ought to be in NO position to bargain on this! To HELL with them.

[mrih]

11. This is the part where...

This is where they loot our entire economy as foretold by the great conspiracy theorists !!

J/K..... or am I? :crazy:

Guess the AMERO is next.

[magellan]

14. Nope, martial law is next

...then election cancel, then detention centers, THEN the Amero. Get with the program, citizen!

Actually, martial law IS the next step. Whether or not this bailout goes through the economy is going to tank. This will just push it there faster by accelerating the devaluation of the dollar.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[readmoreoften]

19. History never happens anymore. The market will just move along smoothly towards techno-utopia.

Slowly, with the help of banks and investors, your children will ride on a swing in slow motion, long blonde hair in the breeze. Hungry children will be fed. They will be given computers and put their tiny brown hands in large elderly white ones. A monk chants in the distance. A white curtain floats off in the breeze. The seas are calm.

Capitalism has ended history, just like the neoconservatives said it would. Socialism and labor defeated, the world would be peace and progress. The future would be an infinite commercial for peace through market. Only fools believe in social manipulation, effective propaganda, and absurdities such as 'errors' and 'collapses'--or even sillier, large scale corruption.

America will always exist. For the next 10 million years, there will be an America. There will be a dollar as the unit of its economy. Any suggestion otherwise is laughable.

Everything will be fine. Everything will always be fine.

--We interrupt this message from the Ministry of Wisdom for a Two-Minute Hate--

[Two Americas]

22. yeah

History - that's all in the past.

[Trillo]

12. buy low, sell high! Not buy high....

The Treasury would buy assets through a process to be determined, hold them until the market stabilizes and then sell them back into the private market. That would remove the toxic assets at the root of the current crisis.

The basic rule is buy low, sell high. It strikes me this plan is buy high, and maybe sell worthless crap ... someday ... at a loss.

Taxpayer picks up the difference and gets nothing in return.

[sandnsea]

13. Decent people would be too ashamed

to take pay when their company is threatening to send the entire globe into a massive depression.

[adamuu]

35. well said. n/t

[aquart]

15. "Choose not to participate"!!!!! LOL!

We can live with that.

As for that incompetent ass' willingness to negotiate? Let him do it at the end of a rope. We hired him to make sure this crap didn't happen. Ever.

[ticked]

16. Firms choose not to participate

good, if they don't like the terms then they can get their bail-out elsewhere. Do we Joe Consumer get to dictate the terms of any "loan" we get. Hell no!!! So why should they, Paulson is such a weasel scumbag.

[sentelle]

82. and when they DO fail

And threaten to take everyone's retirement with it, the government can come in, take the business for pennies on the dollar (call it an economic 'eminient domain') cancel all debts, get it on sound footing, and then re-sell it.

Also, it should be that between the time the US treasury buys it and it sells, its activity on the markets should be frozen. Stockholders should not benefit from the bailout.

[bos1]

17. Thank you DU for using the word SCAM

because that is what it is. Does anyone remember the S&L "crisis"? That was the dry run for this scam. US taxpayers are STILL paying for it.

[Frank Cannon]

18. What they really deserve is to be impaled on stakes in front of the NYSE

with vultures pecking at their fucking eyeballs.

I'd say getting out of this with a pay cut is a bargain.

[crossroads]

168. I agree! Well said! nt

[blackbart99]

20. I'm with Magellan and Cannon on this.

Put their heads on spikes before they take over for good. This is a disaster capitolist dream.
This is the shock...next the so called fix that will seem reasonable but is on step closer
to end of our dream. Martial law will be next. The Bush empire will begin...zieg heil anyone?
:puke: :hide:

Time to buy some guns my friends.:patriot:

[Two Americas]

23. um....

...right...yeah, sure.

That sounds so....oh I don't know....what's the word?

Probably not a good idea to do such a brilliant impression - it really is good - of an agent provocateur before folks here get a chance to get to know you a little better.

[bread_and_roses]

43. That's the second under 20 count poster I've seen telling us "time to buy guns"

in the last 24 hours - or maybe the third. Talk about transparent.

[Wednesdays]

130. They're easy to pick out

They either talk about buying guns, or the word "guillotine" appears somewhere in their posts...amid some carefully-misspelled words, so to make all DUers look like a bunch of morans.

[malletgirl02]

151. Agent provocateurs

This reminds me of in the 1960's when the FBI would infiltrate protest groups groups and also protests. I think it may have happen earlier than the 1960's as well. Looks like agent provocateurs have taken taken in internet by storm.

[Jim Sagle]

141. Hey, that's agent Mike!

;)

[JoeDuck]

24. Rescue Plan for Millionaires

When this financial bailout was first announced, I speculated that the executives who were in charge of the failures would get huge bonuses. And, I knew, that would be one of the major irritants of this taxpayer-funded rescue plan. I don't like the notion that the greedy millionaires will continue to be given (note that I didn't say "earn") huge salaries and severance packages that will be more than the lifetime incomes of us ordinary people who will be making it possible for them to get those huge amounts of money.

One more note: I'm very unhappy that the Democrats have capitulated on every harebrained, unconstitutional proposal the Republicans have put forward. I don't like my vote being taken for granted.

[farmbo]

34. Try "Billionaires"

The bonuses Berancke's trying to protect will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars per executive.

Fortunes...for anyone "fortunate" enough to have run their company into the ground during the last throes of the Bush administration.

:grr:

[adamuu]

36. Remember, Lehmen Bros went *poof* that should be enough to scare them into submission. n/t

[Misskittycat]

25. If this is indeed such a dire crisis, which firms would possibly choose not to participate?

This argument appears to undercut Paulson's claim of an imminent system-wide collapse.

[adamuu]

37. precisely. n/t

[tomp]

84. good point. nt

[ieoeja]

90. But firms don't choose. Their CEO's do.

And to the CEO the choice would seem to be:

1. save the firm, while losing tens of millions of dollars myself, or
2. take my tens of millions and let the firm fail.

That said, the CEO of a public entity is required by law to make a good faith effort to do what is best for the stockholders. The CEO who makes the second choice would certainly be in violation of the law. Though white collar laws are notoriously difficult to prosecute.

[JDPriestly]

164. Especially since some of the most prominent plaintiffs' attorneys

are in jail. Not a nice place to be. I don't know to what extent the attorneys were truly scumbags versus just persecuted. I just don't know, but I know that some very successful, very prominent ones have been prosecuted under the Bush administration.

Make an admiral walk the plank every now and then you know.

What is needed is to make some of these reckless CEOs walk the plank that some of the plaintiff's attorneys have walked. If you look under the rocks in this scandal, you will probably find a lot of fraud.

[Hugin]

26. Let's take out our tattered copy of the US Constitution, shall we Mr. Paulson...

I know it's kind of dirty and torn, but, which branch of Government is in charge of the Purse Strings?

Why, it's the Legislative Branch! Lo and Behold!

and not only do they allocate and approve the funds... They say how and what it's spent on!

So, I guess that should just about wrap up any discussion of what you want.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

27. The bargain for them is simple:

Face an angry mob of taxpayers and congresscritters or an angry mob of stockholders and lawyers.

Welcome to that new game that is sweeping the nation: "Oh no! I've Painted Myself Into A Corner!"

For those who don't want to play, there is the consolation prize, our new board game "Fuck You Very Much!".

[Joe Chi Minh]

28. Why have Bernanke and Paulson, been left in charge? Soros, Taleb,

Buffet and the like should be co-opted to take over.

There would be a sorry limit to what even geniuses could do in this crisis, but to keep in the place the individuals who presided over its creation is insanity.

"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it." You'd almost think Einstein had those two in mind when he said that, wouldn't you? Here, it's not just the same level, but presumably two of its principal architects; and if not, two pre-eminent leaders in the sphere who permitted to happen.

I can't believe Paulson's bare-faced audacity: "clean and quick"! A clean and quick bum's rush for him would be more like it. These two are the "Brownies" of the banking holocaust. Nice work, Brownies!

[Caradoc]

29. CNN-Roland Martin...

...Roland Martin's show Sunday on CNN had 'middle american' guests facing health, home and job issues. Not one liked McCain's 'solutions' and not one was in favour of federal aid for Wall Street. If the administration pushes this 'solution' too far, McCain's toast (if he isn't already). And almost every phone-in caller felt Obama had a stronger grasp of the issue.

[Joe Chi Minh]

30. No surprises there. Paulson and Bernanke are square pegs in round holes.

Paulson should be a Cheap Jack selling form a market stall, and Bernanke? Well, I expect our own Adam Smith Institute could find a place for him in their most estimable think-tank.

[adamuu]

38. heckuva job n/t

[GinaMaria]

142. Why is anyone looking at

the people who 'broke it' to 'fix it'? The only thing we should expect based on past performance is that they will 'break it more'. We should be the ones walking away from this 'deal'(can't really be a deal since there is nothing in it for the people footing the bill).

[mcg]

152. "clean and quick", so is the guillotine. nt

[northernlights]

31. the harder he fights it

the more we need to focus on it. Whatever happened to moral hazard?

He's just revealed his underbelly. Go for it.

NO BLANK CHECK WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES FOR THE GUILTY!!!!!

[Joe Chi Minh]

118. No blank cheque. Period. Accountability and consequences in

addition.

[farmbo]

32. There's Obama's winning issue...ride it straight thru to Nov 4!

eom

[City Lights]

33. What arrogance!

Take it or leave it, Wall Street welfare kings! Beggars can't be choosers.

[adamuu]

39. yeah really... make them go through a 6 hours course in personal credit management

the kind the courts now make bankruptcy filers go through

[bread_and_roses]

40. How about some fair taxes on corporations to help pay for this mess while we're at it?

How about closing "loopholes" (in quotes because the word is used to make us think they are inadvertent, ha ha ha) and making sure that corporations actually pay taxes at a fair rate to help shore up our coffers? Throw in a higher rate incomes in upper 5%, and a surtax for the upper 1%, as well as FICA on upper incomes. Make sure wealth as well as income is taxed. Then you'll really hear them squeal.

I am glad that Paulson has decided to resist the Exec pay provision, since it makes it plain who's interests are being served here and it's an issue that people can relate to easily. But it is in their tax "breaks" that the real robbery occurs.

[creeksneakers2]

41. I don't know how Uncle Sam can avoid the executive pay

We aren't taking over companies so we won't be in control so we won't be able to set executive pay. We are only buying assets from companies and leaving the rest alone. Executive pay packages are set with contracts and a refusal to pay would wind up in court and lose.

[customerserviceguy]

60. It's simple

either they renegotiate the contracts, so they can save the firm, or they are not allowed to participate. We can always amend the tax code so that excessive pay is not deductable.

[Ganja Ninja]

44. These bank executives should all be forced to work for ...

minimum wage until their banks are restored to profitability and the money is paid back to the tax payers. And if they try to quit and walk away they should be go directly to jail.

[tomp]

85. excellent proposal. eminently fair. nt

[Blue_Tires]

115. i won't say minimum wage

but i will say the executives should be paid what the lowest entry-level mailroom clerk gets paid at that company

[pipoman]

45. One area which should be allowed under

Schumer's provision on bankruptcy rule changes should allow for judges to deem second mortgages obtained at the time of purchase, used to make down payments, void. Banks knew better than to allow people to borrow down payments in the form of 2nd mortgages but allowed it anyway to write the first mortgages.

Just FYI, you should read the rules for posting in LBN, you must use the title of the article as the thread title. This thread will be locked or moved no doubt.

[bread_and_roses]

46. Gee, I guess this "crisis" can't be all that bad then, can it, if they "choose not to participate?"

On the one hand we're told that it's the end of the world if we don't hand over an unfathomable amount of $$ to keep the house of cards standing; on the other we're told that unless Exec pay is preserved firms will not participate?

The rabbit hole just got deeper. Welcome to Wonderland.

[JerseygirlCT]

47. So if they choose not to participate...

can they really be in such trouble?

[lark]

124. Yes, they could

The aholes are the ones that created this mess in the beginning, signing folks up for loans they knew were no good. They only care about personal profit, not the company or the customers or they wouldn't have done these insane loans in the first place. They'd rather the company go down so they would be guaranteed their golden parachutes, damn the rest of the place. They never cared to begin with and neither do their pals - their enablers, their best friends the admin.

[JDPriestly]

181. The board members have a fiduciary duty to put the interests of the company, i.e., shareholders

first.

[Not Sure]

48. This is the sequel to the Patriot Act

another prepackaged complex piece of legislation that will fuck every American. It's almost like they had this ready to go and just pulled it out as soon as the "crisis" appeared.

[lark]

126. "They" caused the crisis

they knew what deregulation would do and went for it anyway. It's all about profit and power right now. Wonder what the contributions are from these heads of companies - bet they are off the charts for McCain right now to keep the game going so it's upward spiral for billionaires, downward spiral for the rest of the world. This was all planned.

[kestrel91316]

127. My thoughts exactly. You took the words right out of my mouth.

[MJJP21]

49. Can't?

Can't these firms be put in a type of recievership if they choose not to participate? I'm am sure we can find some capable managers that would just love to navigate these firms to profitability.
Secondly a firms that chooses not to participate sounds like a firm that really doesn't need any help. Perhaps there is even more to this story than we can imagine.

[skids]

50. I don't usually DIGG DU articles...

...especially short snips from other articles, because most are pretty disposable. But I set up a DIGG for this one.

If Paulson is going to resist CEO pay restrictions, let it be known far and wide that he's willing to hold things up for CEOs ahile demanding congress act quickly.

So grab a shovel and DIGG this.

[Waiting For Everyman]

51. (dupe)

[Waiting For Everyman]

52. What utter baloney! A 5-yr. old could see through this.

Put every damn bank into the RTC then! Run 'em that way in receivership, while prosecuting.

Oh what the hell, just let Kucinich do the negotiating. He's the only one who knows how to play hardball.

[lelgt60]

53. Well, you got your revolution...

Er...coup. Just not being led by us.

[IsItJustMe]

55. The rich cats don't want to take responsibility for their actions. Go out and piss a bunch of money

down the drain, and hey, no worries. There absolutly has to be a tie between these CEO's and their results. If there is none, then the whole damn thing will happen again.

[customerserviceguy]

56. Limit pay to what a congressman gets!

You've got to write this up so that no one in any firm who dumps their crap on the taxpayer gets a dime more in pay for 2008 and the next five or ten years, than what we pay a member of Congress. That's still a buttload more money than most people in this country get. If a firm only has a few bad loans, and they want to pay the muckety-mucks big dollars, then they can work it out themselves.

[Vinca]

57. This whole scheme gets more and more like the selling of an unjust war

every day. Just give us the money, no questions asked. If Wall Street firms don't want to participate because their CEO won't pocket tens of millions of dollars, then fuck them. Let them go down.

[rgbecker]

58. Here's a link to see just how much these guys take home...

Blankfein of Goldman Sachs: 50 or 70 million...but who's counting?

http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/ceou/database.cfm?tkr=GS&pg=1

Hundreds of companies listed here, check your boss out.

[Gman]

59. The audacity that they think they are even in a position to make any demands is astounding.

contracts are "sacrosanct" so they oppose judges modifying mortgage terms in bankruptcy court? Absolutely arrogant.

They must not need the money that bad. This is just their last shot at looting the US Treasury from a sector that has yet to get a piece.

[AzDar]

61. Paulson made 30 million when he left Goldman Sachs (IIRC) a few years back, so I'm guessing

this is an issue really close to his black heart.

:puke:

This bailout cannot be allowed.



edited for: angry typos...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

74. ofcourse he is looking after his own, never mind the taxpayers?

[Odin2005]

62. This man's arrogance is astounding.

:puke:

Get the torches and pitchforks!!!

[TomClash]

63. THIS RAISES THE OBVIOUS QUESTION . . .

. . . I'm sure many have thought of.

If a CEO is unwilling to limit his pay, how badly does his firm really need the money?

And I'm writing from the belly of the beastly bear.

[Dover]

67. That was my thought exactly...

Suddenly the melodramatic 'urgency' doesn't seem as potent.

[avaistheone1]

179. Wow. Really good point.

[LatteLibertine]

64. Bah

There should be no "executive compensation" for folks that presided over annual billion dollar company losses while they personally profited. Some of these clowns got 7% pay increases while their companies were losing billions annually.

They shouldn't be getting taxpayer money, and they want to set the terms for saving their asses? Honestly, fuck them, like they've fucked us. These people should be facing criminal charges.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses has got to come to end. Enough.

[GinaMaria]

65. Outrageous!

Social Security has been looted, we are in debt for the next who knows how many generations and these predators want more of our money. Is anyone standing up for us? Is anyone standing up for what is right?

[JPZenger]

66. Should be limits on mortgage interest rates

I believe the ballout should be connected to commitments to lower variable rate mortgage rates for homeowners to a reasonable percentage.

A whole different option would be to allow companies to receive a rebate of previous yearS' Federal income taxes based upon the losses they have this year. That would help GM, Ford and Chrysler and direct the benefits to companies that ACTUALLY PAID TAXES.

[Orsino]

68. When you elect executives to high office...

...and their appointments of other executives are allowed to stand unchallenged, this is the result.

[Barack_America]

69. And how much would the average struggling American be paying these rich executives?

How 'bout they either agree to the Treasury's terms or go to prison for swindling their companies and employees? How's that for a "deal" they'd be sure to accept?

[Oskie]

70. NO blank check

called Sen. Reid and Rep. Pelosi's office in DC : message -- NO BLANK CHECK for Paulson and this adminstration. NO trust in these people under any, dire or not, circumstances.

CALL them NOW-- show your support! Don't just sit there. Reid: 202.224.3542 Pelosi: 202.225.4965 Schumer:202.224.6542

Google for others. They must HEAR from us, know we want Oversight & transparency, mortgage help for homeowners, no golden parachute/executive pay, need stimulus package for average citizens
Spread this to all Dems. If they hear our voices we might stand a chance against getting duped.

[greyghost]

109. Done & done! Thanks for posting the phone numbers!

[peacetalksforall]

171. Reid Pelosi Schumer - all DLC - oh - which way will they go - oh right.

They are toast if they do, but I don't trust the DLC. Republican light and heavy.

[Joe Chi Minh]

71. Too bad. He doesn't have a choice. It's the Democratic trouble-shooters' way -

or the highway. And that applies doubly to the the guys who seem to have been a major part of the problem.

The Republican party should now be abolished, and, as an emergency measure to deal with the crisis the Republicans, in their myopically-venal, ineptitude have created, the adminstration handed over lock, stock and barrel to the Democrats; the best of the Republicans (probably none in this administration) should regroup under a different name for the 2012 election. The Republican Party itself should be a proscribed organisation, like the Nazis in Germany. If that means impeachment, get another table, this time impeachment accessible.

[DeadManInc]

72. The democrats should let them drown.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

75. Do we have a president? Or is Paulson in control?

[llmart]

154. Don't forget.....

we have an MBA President! Wow! Hasn't that worked out wonderfully for our country?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

173. They are all a joke and we're not laughing!

[Naturalist]

76. NO CHECK PERIOD NOT NOW NOT EVER

This is what he said "Mr. Paulson is resisting efforts to limit the pay of executives whose firms participate in the program and plans to fight it "hard," according to a person familiar with the matter. He fears that provision would render the program moot, since many firms might choose not to participate." Can you believe this? I am more than xxxxx! I will not stand by and let this happen calmly. These thieves need to be in jail now!

[Kajsa]

77. OK then,

"He fears that provision would render the program moot, since many firms might choose not to participate."

So they choose not to participate- OK, then they can
bail themselves out.

ARE WE FOOTING THE BILL SO CORPORATE CEOS DON'T HAVE TO FORFEIT A DAMN THING?

I don't think so.

Let them know what it feels like to be a person of moderate income,on the receiving end of the last eight years
of a Republican administration in office,

" You're on your own!"

[guruoo]

78. So limit the bonuses, and they'll refuse to take the bailout?

Am I reading this right?

[lumberjack_jeff]

79. They'll choose not to save their companies?

a) either the companies in question are not failing or,
b) the company is run by a pirate.

Either way, in the words of Spiderman, I missed the part where this is my problem.

[jjanpundt]

80. If the firms choose not to be bailed out, does that mean that

a lot of this "crisis" is manufactured? That it's just an attempt to start over with our money?

[redqueen]

81. That would seem to indicate as much, wouldn't it? (nt)

[guitar man]

83. unbelieveable

This is no time for arrogance. The top executives of these firms should be marched out on national TV and it should be explained to the taxpayers that these once mighty financial titans are standing before us with their HATS IN THEIR HANDS, BEGGING FOR ASSISTANCE in the most humble of terms......:grr:

[lurky]

86. Because he will be one of those executives.

He's going back into the private sector around January 21, 2009, and he damn well knows it.

Remember, he was CEO of Goldman Sachs, and he will surely go through the revolving door to be CEO of some finance company when he leaves. As head of GS, he made $37 million in 2005, so I don't think he has an issues with large executive pay.

[gal]

87. We the American People are "resisting efforts" to use our tax dollars for exhorbirant ceo pay.

They are ultimately the persons responsible for their company being in the mess they are in. The buck is suppose to stop with them. If they don't want our help that is fine, let them find their own way but WITHOUT tax payers dollars.

[Wizard777]

89. How much does CEO of Bankrupt Inc. pay?

Anyone running a company that is basically bankrupt and still expecting to get a paycheck. They should be fired. They obviously don't have the financial acuity to do the job. They are the problem. The company ran out of money and they kept right on spending. Now the company is out of credit and they still see themselves getting huge lavish paychecks. Let me guess. They want everyone below them to take pay cuts so they can still get their huge lavish end of year bonuses. They'll probably export jobs too.

If these corporate jerks are going to export American Jobs to places like China. Lets do it the way the Chinese way. In China everyone of these CEO's would be facing execution. Maybe give them a choice. Work for minimum wage or be executed. After bitching about raises in minimum wage being too much money. Don't be surprised at how many choose execution over trying to live off minimum wage and a couple hundred million in savings. It's a fate worse than death.

[Naturyl]

91. Yeah... let's bend over backwards...

And practically BEG these rich swindlers to take the huge handout.

Next time you see them begging the poor to take welfare, pinch me, because I'll know I'm dreaming.

[karynnj]

92. The most idiotic thing is the statement that :

"He fears that provision would render the program moot, since many firms might choose not to participate." What are their alternatives? to go bankrupt? If they CAN make their own way out of it, they should - and it means they were better managed than most.

There is no excuse for their salary to continue at the rate it was when it was assumed that they were doing a great job that few could do. I guess the Republicans who always argue for merit pay, don't think it applies at the top.

The Banks lobbied for dr-regulation and the Bush administration gave it to them - reportedly even stopping states from trying to regulate on there own. The top executives are not innocent victims.

[Oskie]

93. Ranting gets nothing done! ACT!! here's PHONE NUMBERS!

Just called Sen. Reid and Rep. Pelosi's office in DC : message -- NO BLANK CHECK for Paulson and this adminstration. NO trust in these people under any, dire or not, circumstances.

CALL them NOW-- show your support! Don't just sit there. Reid: 202.224.3542 Pelosi: 202.225.4965 Schumer:202.224.6542 Google for others.

Congress must HEAR from us and know we want Oversight & transparency, mortgage help for homeowners, no golden parachute/executive pay, & to include a stimulus package for average citizens. The assistant I spoke to said they pay attention to phone calls!! Send to all Dems...MAKE THE CALLS.

[crossroads]

148. Thanks! nt

[Oskie]

94. Dont RANT- ACT. here's PHONE NUMBERS ...call them now!

Just called Sen. Reid and Rep. Pelosi's office in DC : message -- NO BLANK CHECK for Paulson and this adminstration. NO trust in these people under any, dire or not, circumstances.

CALL them NOW-- show your support! Don't just sit there. Reid: 202.224.3542 Pelosi: 202.225.4965 Schumer:202.224.6542 Google for others.

Congress must HEAR from us and know we want Oversight & transparency, mortgage help for homeowners, no golden parachute/executive pay, & to include a stimulus package for average citizens. The assistant I spoke to said they pay attention to phone calls!! Send to all Dems...MAKE THE CALLS.

[suffragette]

95. If it's as dire as Paulson claims, then the executives should have no qualms

about accepting a pay limit to keep their firms from collapsing.

If he thinks they would resist that reasonable condition, then that would indicate they wouldn't think (and he really doesn't think) it's as catastrophic as he's been depicting.

So Paulson, which is it?

[lelgt60]

97. Here's my plan

First, I've never heard a straightforward explanation from anyone in power as to what would happen if we just let the market take its course and let these companies fails. Assuming that's truly a bad idea, and, assuming the real problem is a credit crunch (individuals and businesses unable to obtain loans for productive purposes), here is what I propose:

1. Instead of insuring loans through Freddie Mac, create a direct federal loan bank. This is the only way to insure that loans will actually be made, at reasonable interest rates, to credit worthy customers, right now. The interest would go into federal coffers. The bank would be staffed by government employees at government salaries.

2. Allow this bank to purchase real mortgages on U.S. property owned 51% by U.S. corporations at 50 cents on the dollar. Any corporation taking advantage of this would have to pay some sort of tax on future sales (not profits) until the liability is paid off. Also, any corporation taking advantage of this would have to agree to have its compensation practices be regulated, based on government class compensation for similar positions.

3. Prevent anyone from raising credit card rates or canceling or reducing lines of credit for any reason other than default.

4. If a mortgage on a principle residence (as defined in the tax code) goes into foreclosure for any reason, that mortgage automatically gets assigned to the the federal loan bank. The loan is reviewed to see if it was a predatory loan. If it is declared predatory, the mortgage holder gets nothing (this is a good deal - they should go to jail). The federal loan bank then reissues the mortgage at fair rates. If the borrower cannot pay fair rates, the property becomes jointly held by the borrower and the federal loan bank, and the government gets reimbursed on sale.

5. Lower maximum interest rates on consumer and small business loans to 9.99%. If anyone is found to violate this amount in any way it is a felony. First offenders will be sentenced to probation for 3 years where they will have to work at the federal loan bank. Second violations will result in a minimum of 5 years incarceration where they will also have to work at the federal home loan bank, but at minimum wage.

6. Finally, as someone else on DU said, if a business is too big to fail, it is too big to be unregulated. Require a federal regulator on the board of all companies doing business in the US that are larger than the SP100. That regulator will always have direct and full access to all transactions the company makes.

7. Institute a wealth/property excise tax that taxes sales of all property except principle residences

8. Tax all income over $1,000,000 in a given year at 90% until the federal deficit goes below some % of the GDP. Allow 3 year averaging.

9. Get out of Iraq.

10. Get out of Europe.

11. Get out of Okinawa.

12. In general, cut the defense budget in half, and review programs to make sure they are DEFENSIVE.

13. Get rid of the IRS.

14. End the war on drugs. Establish treatment centers.

15. Immediately setup an immigration program for Mexico which registers workers (without any payment on their part), and gives them a 10-year path to citizenship.

16. Have a wealth test for social security and medicare.

And a few other things. The point being, if we have to do something drastic, we need to also be bold as to how to save money.

[Jim Sagle]

102. Points 12 and 16 are libertarian hogwash. Stuff your plan.

[lelgt60]

106. Well that's an intelligent criticism...

You don't like 2 points and you want to stuff the whole plan?

Also, I assume you meant 13 and 16.

Look - I'm willing to discuss each point. I don't know if you personally have ever dealt with the IRS in its current form.

As far as point 16, why should we pay social security and medicare to someone worth a billion dollars?

[Jim Sagle]

140. You're right. I meant 13. Point 12 is isolationism. (Although by this point we might explore it.)

Getting rid of the IRS is flat-out impossible withoust going to a ruinously regressive sales tax or some equivalent.

Means-testing a universal program makes it a bit more complex and much less universal, setting up opposition as well. SS doesn't need means testing, it needs the taxation income cap lifted.

[lelgt60]

143. Yes, I could go for lifting the cap on income for the SS tax - that's better

[peacetalksforall]

172. I say you're not a fair player.

[provis99]

178. well, sounds pretty good to me. Now why can't our politicians do this?

[whistle]

98. Cronyism, bribery, larceny, conspiracy immediately come to mind

[indypaul]

99. Speaking of history

"The law doth punish man or woman
That steals the goose from off the common,
But, lets the greater felon loose
That steals the common from the goose.

Anonymous 1764

[Naturalist]

100. DO NOT ACT AND YOUR MONEY WILL BE GONE!

If the American People with their Representation fail to arrest all crooks involved with this scam that has been going on for who knows how long, the Dollar and all Credibility will go down the tubes. All Foreign Investors will pull out of the American Market and your 401k's will be worthless. It needs to happen now. A statement that we intend to get to the bottom of what has happened and that all crooks will be jailed. Without that no amount of money for bailouts or loans will do anything.

[mcollier]

174. It will do something extremely significant

It will reward those very crooks at the same time say fuk you to the American People.

That's why in the bush administrations eyes its a really good plan....

If your gonna bail somebody out bail out the American People: reward the hard workers this time... not the criminals.

If your considering providing welfare, who is more deserving: Wall Street or Main Street?

*************************
While Main Street continues to struggle, Wall Street is rescued at the expense of the American People...

What about us! They must think we're stupid!

WRITE YOUR FEDERAL SENATE AND CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES.... THESE MESSAGES MUST BE COMMUNICATED TO THEM...


https://forms.house.gov/wyr/welcome.shtml

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

[TankLV]

101. THEN CALL THEIR BLULFF!!!

Mr. Paulson is resisting efforts to limit the pay of executives whose firms participate in the program and plans to fight it "hard," according to a person familiar with the matter. He fears that provision would render the program moot, since many firms might choose not to participate.

Let me get this straight:

We're offering to GIVE them OUR money - which THEY desperatley NEED, but THEY are threatening to "not participate" if THEY can't keep THEIR salaries - when THEY are the one who GOT US INTO THIS MESS in the first place!!!

[FirstLight]

103. WHAT the HELL?

Is there any voice who is saying that these guys DESERVE NOTHING...????

I am sick to death of the rich swindling us and then getting "compensated" for it!

Obama needs to say this LOUD & CLEAR

[meowomon]

107. Good God PeopleThey are Raping and Pillaging the U.S.!

This is absolute madness.

[Riverman]

108. Negotiate: This is a Wall Street Surrender! WTF! Congress Must

Stop this insanity. There should ne NO neotiations with these thieves! Hell No!Corporate Welfare of the Worst Kind. Let them Fail. Let them suffer the consequences. Arrest the CEO's for fraud and seize their assests to start developing a fund to help the homeowners and small businesses who are the most vulnerable.

[feddup]

110. Write letters to your congress members

Mine below:

I am writing to express my deep hope that the pending banking bailout will NOT be a blank check to the banking industry that got us into this crisis.

I am strongly in favor of capping CEO pay - they should not get a golden parachute while their employees and stockholders pay.

Further, there needs to be complete transparency in the review process. As a taxpayer, I want to know how my hard earned money is being spent on this bailout.

Any plan that does not include these provisions is unacceptable.

This in one of those moments where the Democrats need to stand strong and stand united for the middle class and for the future of America.

We gave the Bush administration a blank check on the Iraq war - please don't give them a blank check on our economy.

[Naturalist]

112. NO LETTER CALL

DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE FOR YOUR LETTER TO GET THERE?

[feddup]

111. Write letters to your congress members

Mine below:

I am writing to express my deep hope that the pending banking bailout will NOT be a blank check to the banking industry that got us into this crisis.

I am strongly in favor of capping CEO pay - they should not get a golden parachute while their employees and stockholders pay.

Further, there needs to be complete transparency in the review process. As a taxpayer, I want to know how my hard earned money is being spent on this bailout.

Any plan that does not include these provisions is unacceptable.

This in one of those moments where the Democrats need to stand strong and stand united for the middle class and for the future of America.

We gave the Bush administration a blank check on the Iraq war - please don't give them a blank check on our economy.

[MindMatter]

113. This is a fabricated "crisis". These guys are not patriots. They are crooks.

There is plenty of mortgage money for qualified buyers.

Lines of credit for profitable, well-managed businesses are not restricted. On the contrary, banks are sitting on lots of liquidity. They came to my business and gave us an extra $5,000,000 (10% increase) in credit lines we didn't even request.

While these Wall Street games definitely have some spillover effects on Main Street, this is mainly a crisis for the companies who gambled on these ridiculous loans and derivatives.

[katty]

122. yup, that's how it's done

[OHDEM]

114. TAKE ACTION!!

Call Congress! It's THAT important! Reid: 202.224.3542 Pelosi: 202.225.4965 Schumer:202.224.6542
It took me 10 minutes to make the calls & I felt a bit better after. I talked to "live" people at Reid & Shumer's offices & left a message for Pelosi. Reid took the longest becuase they were so busy. (A good sign?)

Tell them no black check!
No purse strings to an unelected Treasury Secretary!
Tell them that the "whiners" don't want to hear about the troubles of billionaires!
Tell them we're all struggling, why is it ony a crisis when Wall Street feels it!
Tell them to let these CEO swim in their own shit!
Tell them to stand their ground & do what's best for ALL of us - not just the wealthy few that created this problem in the first place!

Tell them what you want, but PLEASE TELL THEM!!

Reid: 202.224.3542 Pelosi: 202.225.4965 Schumer:202.224.6542

Pick up the phone. Do it now!

[TwilightGardener]

116. This is it, this is the pitchfork and torch moment. Not only will we hand over

our money, but we're going to keep these crooked bastards secure in the lifestyle they're accustomed to? This is insane.

[DemWynner]

117. IF they choose not to paticipate

Then WHO CARES??? If they don't want the help and take a loss for their bad judgment, they don't need the help and the board can then figure out what to do with the CEO's pay. This really makes me mad!

[katty]

119. F***k them all! No Caps on CEO's salaries?! Dodd, etal better

MAKE that happen, AND relief to Main St homeoweners and strong oversight!! And that is not much for this kind of BILLIONS of $$$ bailout for these THIEVES! They can't get $ for infrastructure?, for Katrina relief? and re-build, for universal healthcare?! and yet they SPRING INTO ACTION for their crooks and liars club?! Make them do some WORK for their money for a change!

[ladywnch]

120. Only in the US financial markets do you get to drive a company under and get

a multi million dollar bonus/severance package! .....and THEN they have the gall to say they don't know if they want to participate! SCREW 'EM! Everybody else in the country is held to 'merit pay' expect these pukes. Teachers who are responsible for preparing the future of our country are held to bullshit testing to determine if they get a paltry raise. These bastards lie, cheat and steal but they demand millions to be rescued!!!!

I've never heard of a drowning person dictate the means of their rescue. And as someone already pointed out earlier in this thread, if they can 'choose' to not participate then they don't really need rescued....they're obviously fine.

[katty]

121. arrogant bastards one & all!!

[happygoluckytoyou]

123. LET THEM NOT PARTICIPATE>......works for me

[Joe Chi Minh]

125. Maybe Daily Mail journalist, Peter McKay, should have a word in the shell-likes

of Messrs Paulson and Bernanke. These are the opening sentences of his article in today's Daily Mail:

Why can't we punish the spivs?

"GORDON BROWN promises to do whatever it takes" to reform the financial system. Whatever it takes? This means he'll do nothing. What most of us would like him to do is launch a Royal Commission into the corrupt banking practices responsible for the collapse, find out what decisions were taken by whom and who benefited from them.

Then get the money back, even if it means sticking those responsible in prison, emptying their bank accounts and selling all their possessions. But he can't and won't do this, or anything like it. Brown and his New Labour cronies worship the City of London. They're confederates in corporate crime. The bankers steal us blind and the government gets its cut in taxes. So Brown is perfcectly happy for taxpayers to pay the £100 billion bill for propping up collapsing banks.

He talks about ensuring there is 'responsibility and not irresponsibility', but these are just words. The irresponsibility of the banks is sanctioned. It's a given. They can do more or less what they like. The executives who destroyed Lehman will still get their bonuses. Even after, in the words of Lib Dem Treasury spokesman Vince Cable, 'adopting business behaviour that has wrecked their bank.'"

Is it certain that Naomi Klein wrote the book on 'Disaster Capitalism'? I mean Paulson seems to have a positively magisterial grasp of what it entails. As, indeed, do Brown and his City chums.

[JohnWxy]

131. FINE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO PARTICIPATE THEY CAN GO UNDER IF THEY WANT.

recommended, obviously.

[lelgt60]

132. It's over 180 trillion!: Office of the Comptroller of Currency 1st quarter 08 report

U.S. commercial banks generated first quarter 2008 trading revenues in cash and derivative instruments
of $1.13 billion, compared to $9.97 billion of trading losses in the fourth quarter of 2007.

• Net current credit exposure increased 50% to $465 billion from the fourth quarter, and is 159% higher
than a year ago. The rapid increase in credit exposure results from sharply lower interest rates and
higher credit spreads, which created a large increase in derivatives receivables.

• The notional value of derivatives held by U.S. commercial banks increased $14.7 trillion, or 9 percent, to
$180.3 trillion in the first quarter.

• Derivative contracts remain concentrated in interest rate products, which comprise 79% of total
derivative notional value. The notional value of credit derivative contracts, 99% of which are credit
default swaps, increased 4% during the quarter to $16.4 trillion.

[whistle]

133. As long as Hank Paulson remains Sec of the U.S. Treasury, the swindle will continue

[Poseidan]

134. What do you think?

Better to be poor and free, or rich and in a cage? They try to control everything you do, for 'profits'. You can't curse, you can't speak your mind, you must obey their rules, or be fired. They give you pillows for your cage, cold beer and a television. But you can't leave your cage.

Better to be poor and free.

[AngryOldDem]

138. What's the old Janis Joplin line?

"Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose"?

That CEO compensation is even still being discussed at this stage really doesn't surprise me. These crooks have gotten away with financial rape and murder for years. Why not continue to compensate them for it?

If I were in Congress, Paulson's standing by this point in the plan would be an absolute deal-breaker for me.

These CEOs knew for years that they were playing with fire, but as long as the profits were rolling in, all waa well and good. Now, when they have driven the system to the brink of collapse, it's still ALL ABOUT THEM.

I just have two words: Fuck. Them. And if Paulson does not give on this, everyone should just walk away and let the vaunted free market run its course.

[marions ghost]

156. you said it in a nutshell

:applause:

[lelgt60]

139. A little levity to break the seriousness - time magazine via a cnn link

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1843168,00.html?cnn=yes

[lovuian]

146. All I want to know is who is going to take the fall for this

thievery...and it looks like the US Taxpayer

[Sick Of Their Lies]

149. Get out of the stock Market today

Because of the Bush/McCain polocies the stock market Dow Jones will be down 11,000 points by January
We will be in the worst depression the world has ever seen.

[SteveM]

150. Here's the tune the GOP ALWAYS plays:

Fight tooth and nail for every remnant of unregulated economic purity.
Fight tooth and nail for every piece of unchecked executive authority.
Fight tooth and nail for any proposal which requires corporate power to pay for its own mess.
Fight tooth and nail until you are dislodged from power.
Fight tooth and nail to stay in power.

Because there is no opposition.

[Ilsa]

157. Let the assholes fail. Let their parachute checks bounce. nt

[droidamus2]

161. Another thing

With all this bs about the economy many people are overlooking something. This is a year where Democrats looked to make big strides in the House and Senate (I think they probably are more likely now than before) by bringing this 'crisis' to a head right now and making Congress stay in Washington to take care of it they are keeping the Democrats from going home and campaigning. I can't remember what it was but I seem to remember Bush and the Repubs doing the same thing in 2004. Again I can't remember exactly what it was but just at the time Congress was supposed to recess Bush came up with something that he insisted Congress had to stay in town and fix. There idea, I think, is to get the pols desperate to get home and campaign and hope they can get them to pass something real fast to facilitate that.

[april]

162. instead of all of us Bitching Email your Congress ! here is a list

Look all of us are fed up w/ this so instead of us bitching to ourselves start emailing

here it is lets do SOMETHING!!!

http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.shtml

[april]

163. sorry her is the list of the senators

just go ..do something ..http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

[GinaMaria]

166. www.congress.org

works too. I wrote several times today using great info from DUers. Seems to be working. check this out

http://www.truthout.org/article/taxpayers-congress-push-back-against-bailout

[jwirr]

165. Of course he resists - that is just more proof that it is a scam.

[sarcasmo]

167. Rec #100, No Golden Spoons!

[YellowRubberDuckie]

170. He's just the Secretary of the Treasury.

His power is supposed to be pretty limited. Congress needs to smack him upside his head, figuratively speaking.
Duckie

[classysassy]

176. The republican banditos

It seem that whenever the money changers screwup,there is always a Bush or a McCain lurking in the shadows,Silverado,the Keating crooks,when will America wiseup and boot the crooks out of office and into jail?

[daughter of liberty2]

177. kick

:kick:

[davidthegnome]

180. Some times this crap...

Makes me want to cry. Which is something I haven't done in a really long time. It's all so sick and twisted. We're rescuing the rich... during an economic crisis, we're giving a complete moron seven hundred billion dollars to rescue wall street. They're "resisting" any efforts to help the average citizen as hard as they can.

Why? Because they're corrupt, rich, greedy, whatever. I guess that could explain some of it... but it's gone (IMO) beyond that point, where now I would call men like Paulson evil. I'm not a believer in demons or devils. But I definitely believe human beings can be evil.

Reading these threads lately, I'm either getting angry or depressed. The anger is for obvious reasons - the depression because I feel pretty powerless. I've got this deep feeling that they're going to steal the next election, and all of this crap right now is nothing compared to what we'll be facing in the near future.

November is coming up, right around the corner, we've got a few strong points on our side... but we're letting these criminals get away with this shit. If it meant anything, I'd organize a protest that maybe ten people would go to. Unfortunately, even if ten thousand went it would be completely ignored. We'd all be settled in in a nice comfortable designated free speech zone.

Sorry, I'm rambling, don't mind me.

[EndElectoral]

182. This is not a crisis if this is a dealbroker. I get angrier each day over this.

F'ing JP Morgan, the richest man in America avoided paying taxes during the early 30's. These bastards serve themselves above all else.

[Porschenut1066]

183. Reasons behind bailout - very interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsQTXx_bXSc