Hugo Chavez says Latin America needs Russia

[Zorro]

Source: Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said in an interview broadcast Sunday that Latin America needs strong friendship with Russia to help reduce U.S. influence and keep peace in the region. The interview aired as a Russian Navy squadron prepared to sail to Venezuela.

Venezuela recently hosted a pair of Russian strategic bombers and is preparing to conduct a joint naval exercise with Russia. Russian media say Chavez plans to visit Moscow Friday, his second trip in just over two months.

“Not only Venezuela, but Latin America as a whole, needs friends like Russia now as we are shedding this (U.S.) domination,” Chavez told Russia’s Vesti 24 television. “We need Russia for economic and social development, for all-around support, for the life of the peoples of our continent, for peace.”

Read more: http://www.ajc.com/services/content/news/stories/2008/09/21/russia_chavez_venezuela.html

[curious one]

1. There goes Latin America. How our circle of influence is shrinking! Thanks to some of our so called

friends that brought us useless wars and economic turmoil as a result of that.

[Pavulon]

2. Heard this before, in history

this has been tried, and failed. The people who will suffer in a new war for latin america are the people. The US will not accept a russian presence in Latin America.

This policy has been in place for decades and has cost many lives.

[Zorro]

3. Exactly

Like it or not, South America will remain within the US sphere of influence.

[bitchkitty]

4. Ha! That's a laugh. Or just wishful thinking on your part?

Thankfully, the U.S. has been steadily losing its influence. Finally, the people of Latin America are finding out what it's like to live in a free and fair democracy.

[Pavulon]

5. Hopefully they will work under their influence.

bringing in russia will not lead them to independence. Maybe a fat dose of dioxin for those they don't like, but russia is not there to help. Note all the AK47s in africa.

But what do you expect for a guy wearing a red shirt?

[Zorro]

6. Guess you don't like it

Those of us that live in the real world understand that the US will continue to have much greater influence on South America that Russia ever will.

[bitchkitty]

9. That used to be true, when the "real world"

consisted of only Western news outlets, what you heard on the TV news and what you read in the newspapers. Back then it was much easier to control opinion.

The times have changed, and there has been, and continues to be, a revolution in Latin America. Guess you didn't notice it.

Guess you don't like it.

[Zorro]

10. I'm guessing you haven't been to South America

Because if you did, you'd discover 10 year waiting lists for South Americans to emigrate legally to the US.

[bitchkitty]

13. I'll bet few on those waiting lists

are the poor, mainly indigenous who have benefited the most from the socialist reforms.

[Zorro]

18. So how about going to South America and giving us a field report?

While you're at it, check and see how big a backlog there is for emigrants to Russia.

Unless you put your own boots on the ground, you're just as misinformed as those you castigate for getting their news from internet sources. Because you have nothing to calibrate reports from those sources with.

[bitchkitty]

47. I don't have to be in South America

to know that 99% of what we hear and see in the media is pure bullshit, especially in regards to Venezuela. I don't have to be wherever it is you are, in order to know that you are against any kind of leftist government in South America or here.

It's painfully obvious.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spouting Horn]

34. Capital

is fleeing South America, like it did Cuba.

But I guess that's the point, destruction of Capital.

[pegleg]

26. Maybe they'll begin emigrating to Russia now.

[Pavulon]

29. Moscow make NY Metro

seem cheap. Very expensive to live. Or you can live in a shack or shitblock apartment and dig potatoes.

Russia is an amazing place, but middle class is not affordable.

[amyrose2712]

17. There seems to be a huge socail movement toward the left all

around down there.

[trthnd4jstc]

43. My social movement to the left happened after being involved in an illegal Reagan war.

Unfortunately, I can theoretically be charged if I spill the beans about this war. But, let us say, our nation has killed thousands of leftist, and innocent people in Central and South America. I wish I had never joined the military. I was an enlisted man, though, but what I did do, I regret. To Humanity-I am Sorry. Please understand, that I have sought to make amends for my part in that injustice. I wish that Bush 41 would be prosecuted for his part in that injustice, as well as Richard Armitage. They are Evil.

[Peace Patriot]

50. Thank you, Trthnd4jstc! For realizing the evil of the policy you participated in,

and for trying to make amends. That is not easy to do. It takes great intelligence, emotional stamina, and heart and soul. I appreciate what you've been through. I have seen others go through it. The moral courage that this kind of self-truthtelling takes is like no other human courage. It is far and away the very best that a human being is capable of. When we get our country back, it is you and others like you who will be getting the Congressional medals of honor.

:patriot: :grouphug: :patriot:

[happydreams]

65. Peace man. I'm a vet, but I was lucky never to have done

anything directly to harm innocent people. I was in a fighter-squadron that flew missions off of an aircraft carrier in Nam', but I was not on it when it did. I knew pilots who talked about their missions as if they were playing a fucking video game. :puke:

When I got out all I wanted to do was find out why this country is so entangled in these foreign countries. That has been a life-long process.

What I always say is that if you thought you were right, or maybe weren't sure, when you did what you did then you shouldn't feel guilty.

Take it easy.

dreamer

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. You're the second person I've heard this kind of thing from

about being involved in secret operations in Central America that he is now deeply ashamed of.

[trthnd4jstc]

42. I hope that you are right. The US should not be imperialistic.

The Monroe Doctrine is Wrong. The Bush Doctrine-Wrong. Imperialim-Wrong. Justice-Right. Honor-Right. Integrity-Right.

[High Plains]

19. The US has no right to tell Latin America with whom it can associate.

Peddling this sort of realpolitik is really just apology for decades of US interference.

And the US had to eat Russian influence in Cuba for 30 years.

[Zorro]

23. The US is not telling "Latin America with whom it can associate"

Cuba chose to align itself with the USSR. How'd that work out for the people of Cuba?

Chavez is seeking to build relationships with US adversaries. Do you think this is a good thing for the people of Venezuela, and if so, why?

[High Plains]

28. I was responding to Pavulon's post:

Pavulon (1000+ posts) Mon Sep-22-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Heard this before, in history
this has been tried, and failed. The people who will suffer in a new war for latin america are the people. The US will not accept a russian presence in Latin America.

This policy has been in place for decades and has cost many lives.

---------

As for Cuba, well, building a socialist state worked out quite well in many ways for Cubans, if you care about things like life expectancy, health care, education. They do quite well when compared against the rest of Latin America. They have not exactly been a liberal democracy, though, and I think the Cuban state has been somewhat oppressive. I say somewhat oppressive because throwing a relative handful of political prisoners in jail at any given time in the last 40 years hardly holds a candle to the mass political murder that went on at the hands of US-allied rightists in Chile, Argentina, and Brazil in the 1970s or Central America in the 1980s or Colombia in the 1990s and on. So while I can criticize Cuba on political oppression grounds, there are many othe Latin American nations who are deserving of much more severe criticism.

As for alliances with US adversaries, I think Chavez is trying to build a counter to American diplomatic and political influence in the region, and yes, I think that is a good thing for the people of Venezuela and the people of Latin America. As an American citizen, I'm not particularly frightened by Russian or Iranian bogeymen, but perhaps they will help to rein in what has been a US foreign policy that doesn't give a rat's ass about Latin Americans, only North American profits.

And yes, I've traveled quite a bit in Latin America.

[Pavulon]

30. Me too, Sailed to cuba

and been to caracas. Carry insurance to medivac out of there if I got sick. Havana is nice but there is poverty and people there just recently got legal access to satellites.

We dont have a great track record, but offer more than russia.

It is my belief that if he aligns with russia we will see someone on his general staff takes his job.

He is better off non aligned.

[happydreams]

73. Heck, if Russia can supply him with weapons to fight off the fascisti

what's wrong with that.

What Hugo really needs is a thousand Zorro's (see below) that haven't turned to the dark side. Then he couldn't lose.

[Pavulon]

25. That agreement is about to die and

can be tied to a negotiation involving nuclear weapons. Once castro dies all bets are off. That is one position I have read.

There is no reason hugo can't get dosed with dioxin if he chooses to be a pawn in a US/Russian game. We absolutely killed people over this issue and absolutely will do it again, under ANY administration. Dont fool yourself.

We stack the deck.

Obviously there is no soviet presence there.

Seems cubans got the shit end of that deal, that is why many of those who can leave to come here.

Not quite the communist paradise it was sold as. Been there to.

[High Plains]

32. Tell me, you keep talking about the US killing its political opponents.

Is this something of which you approve? These sorts of policies and attitudes are one reason the US is loathed by wide swathes of Latin America.

As for Cuba and Russia, I was referring to the period prior to the end of the Soviet Union. I think Russian influence there has been dramatically weakened since then, and the Cubans suffered for awhile adjusting to the end of Russian subsidies during the "special period." But they've gotten past that.

I've been to Cuba, too. It's weird, tropical communism. It isn't paradise, but it's not so bad. Plus, they make mean mojitos and great (if overpriced) cigars, and I didn't see a fucking McDonalds the whole time I was there.

[Pavulon]

33. Dioxin

I do not set the policy.. We kill people to serve us interests. Heads of state are supposed to be a no no. Russia does as well.

Killing should be a final response when no other option is left, coups are a tool we haved used. Kennedy put Diem in the dirt with an order but thought it through. This is a realistic approach. Saying we should never ever or dont is not realistic.

That is how business is conducted.

However when we HAVE carried this out when it was "legal" it seemed to end poorly.

This is russian work. So they are net the best bedfellow for mr chavez..

[TheLastMohican]

45. This is not russian work

Don't tell BS here.

The poisoning itself is still not a proven fact.
Don't repeat MSM brainwashing talking points. The case with Yushenko is still under investigation and the trail leads to his closest advisors-political adversaries if it was poisoning at all.

[WriteDown]

51. Yeah....

It was just pancreatitis right? :sarcasm: Even after a international med team confirmed the poisoning, we still have folks who refuse to believe that Super Putin(conqueror of tigers) could ever be involved.

[TheLastMohican]

59. International med team was a joke

The samples they had were not Yushenko's. A person can't have a 1000 doze of dioxin and still live another 4 years to see the light.
There are folks like you who would believe Putin is behind your clogged Water Closet just because it fits your agenda.

[WriteDown]

61. Amazing...

how people are willing to suspend disbelief to make Putin look like a good guy. Let not forget that Yushenko wasn't the only person to die of Putin's fascination with poisoning. Also, take a look at Chechnya. And how about those hostages that were gassed and killed.

[TheLastMohican]

70. Yushenko is not dead

He is happily leading Ukraine into ruin. Check your facts.

Are you sure Putin is behind this because you have some hard evidence which is ........CNN and BBC told you so?

About gassed hostages, you don't know the subject to talk about it.
With 1000 hostages and suicide bombers ready to blow everything up that was the only possible solution to actually save people. US has never experienced a situation like that with 1000 hostages and suicide bombers numbering at least 40 so don't judge and you won't be judged. Russian SpecOps performed at the top of their game, it is the medevac teams that failed miserably to give people treatment afterwards.

[ronnie624]

48. You spout some of the most disjointed nonsense I've ever seen.

How anyone can respond to your posts with any degree of seriousness is beyond me.

On the one hand you claim killing "heads of state are supposed to be a no no", then follow it up by saying that assassinating certain national leaders is "realistic" and at times "legal". The fact that you support such reveals your political inclinations.

Kennedy was very upset by the news of Diem's assassination, by the way, and did not intend for it to happen (rather naive, it seems). The policies of canceling the elections in Vietnam in 1956 and later overthrowing the South Vietnamese government - twice - was driven by right-wing anti-communist zealotry within the policy making establishment of the U.S. government, somthing we all know now, Kennedy was not a part of. Some key decisions and orders were actually made behind his back. Such policies, of course, led to the near destruction of Vietnam as a cultural entity, as well as the worst military defeat in U.S. history.

I must say, it isn't surprising to see you echoing the sentiments of perhaps the original neocon, John Foster Dulles.

[Pavulon]

55. Read A FUCKING book before you condescend

Legacy of Ashes and the content it cross references in the LOC (and other foia data) make clear that the CIA, under presidential order, killed Diem and others. Presidents clearly knew the policy would lead to deaths and carried them out.

Bobby worked with CIA as well as his brother did. Not like he was alone, US policy saw to it many governments were overthrown, some using bloody coups.

The CIA used and was used by every administration to serve their ends.
When you get done reading on CIA, check out the British, who we learned from, and the USSR, who were every bit as harsh as we were.
Grow up this is not the model un from high school.

[ronnie624]

58. Thanks for the helpful suggestions.

I'll be certain to follow your advice. It should be obvious to anyone that you have done lots of "reading".

[Pavulon]

76. google is your friend for sure...

everything you seek is public record.

[Flanker]

49. This is stupid arrogant

There were dozens of attempts at Castro's life

http://www.parascope.com/mx/articles/castroreport.htm

The thing is that your gooks are so incompetent that they all failed, and that probably eats you up inside :)

PS your deflecting skit is not really working (anymore than OJ's "If I did it, here is how" fiasco) you fantasize about wetworks 24/7, probably masturbate to one or two as well.

[Pavulon]

56. No shit

we tried to kill him, bet never invaded or flew bombers in from other countries. This is historical content. Not like I am fucking making it up.

Google is your friend. I wonder if they succeeded at killing kennedy in return for the effort?

[Vidar]

71. Who cares what the US accepts now that Bush has shown us to be the paper tiger we really are?

[DiamondKrosse]

7. I would be scared

the USSR is on its way back

[Pavulon]

8. "Those who do not miss the USSR have no heart..

Those who want it back have no brain" V. Putin.

They have a new racket and way of doing business.

[unkachuck]

14. sounds like....

....Vladimir isn't longing for the 'good old days'....

....but then why should he?....the Political Bureau of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union would never have allowed him to amass a personal fortune of over 40 billion dollars making him the richest man in Europe and one of the richest men in the world....

[DiamondKrosse]

15. its the same thing,

Russia trying to be all powerful, building up its weapons, trying to take over countries like Georgia, being oppressive to the press and political opponents like Other Russia and Garry Kasparov, and now allying itself with Latin American communists like Chavez. Putin and his puppet also brought back the weapons marches, and the soviet anthem. I do like the sound of the soviet anthem tho. But all in all, Putin wants to bring back communism or the USSR on some form. I'll bet he forms the union with Belarus that they want

[TheLastMohican]

46. I understand your Putin-bashing

But Russians actually like their leader and you will have to get used to him sticking around.

[Psephos]

11. You can judge a man's character by the company he keeps n/t

[Judi Lynn]

16. Absolutely.

[Psephos]

21. What do those photos have to do with Putin and Chavez? n/t

[IndianaGreen]

27. Russia did not invade Latin America or run death squads killing civilians there

What was that thing about character you were saying?

[Pavulon]

31. They played there too

and payed money to make people die as well. Dont be dishonest by saying they did not play cold war there. So in the middle of that we ended up with dead civilians.

They are not above dosing the people they dont like with dioxin. Just like we have our suitcases..

[Psephos]

36. You've got no problem with Putin's character?

I do.

If you think we must limit assessments of Putin's character to evidence from Latin America then I think you're either uninformed or a poor judge of character.

Neither of those descriptions fits you, I.G. What's motivating you to give a cynical imperialist like Putin a pass? Dude has ice water in his veins and a cemetery full of human bones rattling in his closet.

[IndianaGreen]

38. My views on Putin are identical to those of the Communist Party of Greece

The workers in our country should not have any illusions about the role of today’s Russia as it has a distinctly different class and social content from the USSR. Today’s capitalist Russia, as well as the EU, can neither become a “counterweight” to the USA nor a factor of international balance and security as they are both made of the same “material”, the “material” of the harsh class exploitation and injustice, of the dominance of capital and of the oppression of workers. The ruling class of Russia collides with the US and EU imperialists only in order to defend the interests of its own monopolies. At the same time is willing to accommodate with the USA and the EU for the further exploitation of the workers, the deprivation of their gains and the restriction of their social and political rights.

http://inter.kke.gr/News/2008news/2008-08-caucase/

Despite the oligarchy nature of Putin and Medvedev's government, the fact remains that it was Georgia that launched a criminal invasion of the autonomous region of South Ossetia.

As to Chavez, and other progressive leaders in Latin America, they would be negligent were they to reject the offer of help by Russia and China as they come under threat by the neocon regime in the USA.

[Psephos]

41. My view is simpler. He's an atavistic motherfucker. n/t

[hack89]

12. Exactly what the Pentagon needs

can't have a good defense budget without a good enemy. A Cold War redux is exactly what the Pentagon needs.

[High Plains]

20. My goodness. The moldering corpse of Scoop Jackson has arisen...

...and is inhabiting the souls of various regulars on these Chavez threads.

Anti-communism as a guiding principle for foreign policy is so 20th Century.

[UTUSN]

22. ...

[Peace Patriot]

53. And the point of this picture is?

I can assure you that neither Hugo Chavez, nor his many friends among South America's leadership, are Mickey Mousing around. Their goals and achievements are not small. They have created a South American "Common Market," without the U.S. They are forming a common defense, without the U.S. (--and specifically because they have only one enemy--the U.S.). They are not fucking around. And they are--their most remarkable achievement of all (aside from transparent vote counting)--UNIFIED on goals of social justice, cooperation and integration, and the sovereignty of Latin American countries.

Chavez has been a key leader of all these amazing achievements--but by no means the only one. And then there are the millions of voters, activists, community leaders, union leaders, indigenous leaders, workers, the poor, grass roots volunteers, human rights workers, and others, who have worked so hard on their democratic institutions, and on organizing--often very difficult organizing--to elect leaders who truly represent the people of South America. The psyops game of personalizing this awesome democracy revolution that is occurring in South America, by demonizing Chavez, is made naked by your post of this photo, for all to see. He's just an uppity brown guy, a Mickey Mouse "dictator," a nothing, a demon, discountable, yet somehow the object of non-stop vilification by Bushwhacks and Corpo/fascists.

Well, go ahead and enjoy your Corpo/fascist giggle, while the Corpo/fascists destroy our own country, and plot the destruction of others, to make a few unconscionably rich fuckwads richer. Your post is right up there with Bush, Jr., and his giggle about hunting for WMDs under the Oval Office rug.

[ryanmuegge]

24. Everybody needs Russia. They're a huge supplier of natural gas, not to mention oil.

[EFerrari]

35. Watchit, Zorro! The Commies are coming!

:rofl:

[happydreams]

64. Isn't amazing. You can just see their yearning for the good ol'

Cold War days.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

69. Yeah, since there's no "Islamic threat" in Latin America

:eyes:

[happydreams]

74. OOPs... should have read: "Isn't it amazing?..."

[David Zephyr]

37. Latin America does not "need" Russia. Che was right and Fidel was wrong.

Latin America needs to continue doing exactly what they are doing: finding their own way, exerting their own strengths, and even finding more and more common ground.

The tables have already turned a very great deal throughout South America with the election of one progressive/socialist government after the next.

The last thing that Latin America needs is sticky relationships with dictatorships like the one Putin has begun in Russia and the religious dictatorship that exists in Iran.

Che spoke out in Africa against both the first and second world and was banished from Cuba for having bitten the Soviet hand that fed Fidel's revolution. While those circumstances are debatable and even understandable (although Che will forever shine while Fidel's legacy will always be clouded in spite of the good he did), what is not debatable is this: Latin America does not need any sticky relationships with old world, old mentality flypaper, be it the United States, Russia or Iran.

We are witnessing a remarkable thing happening throughout Latin America. My family lived in Argentina, Peru, Guatemala, Costa Rica and Bolivia during the 1960's and 1970's. Simon Bolivar would be very, very proud of what is taking place today. I know I am.

[Peace Patriot]

52. I agree with you about the leftist democracy revolution in South America

(and quickly spreading to Central America), and I would like to hear more about your assessment of it, especially since you have lived in the countries you mention. But I think your fear of Venezuela's new freedom in forming alliances is unfounded, and that the context in which Chavez is working (the South American context) is very important to understand. For instance, Brazil's president, Lula da Silva, recently said that the U.S. 4th Fleet is a threat to Brazil's new oil fields on their Atlantic coast. And it was Brazil--not Venezuela--that recently proposed a South American common defense, in conjunction with the newly formed South American "Common Market" (UNASUR). Brazil! South American leaders in general are very worried about Bushwhack intentions in South America and the Caribbean. And they have this Bushwhack supported and funded fascist rioting in Bolivia, last week, to make them even more concerned. Ecuador's president has said it's a three-country Bushwhack strategy, to instigate fascist insurrections and split off the oil rich provinces of these countries, into fascist mini-states that will then permit our global corporate predators to regain control of the oil and other resources. You will notice that South America's leaders convened a meeting of UNASUR--not the OAS--to deal with the Bolivian crisis. The U.S. (Bush) is not a member of UNASUR. And they thus achieved unity on a plan of action, which they would not likely have done at the OAS, with the Bushwhacks obstructing.

It is in this CONTEXT that Chavez/Venezuela invited Russia to naval maneuvers in the Caribbean. He is responsible for protecting UNASUR's northern flank--until they can get a common defense in place (something that the Colombian military--funded by the Bushwhacks, to the tune of $6 BILLION--is trying to slow down). Chavez is also responsible for protecting Zulia--Venezuela's oil rich province on the Caribbean--and preventing any hostile moves by the Bushwhacks, using the local fascist cabal, Colombian forces and the 4th Fleet. If the Bushwhacks were able to get control of Zulia's oil (--and it is in fact more vulnerable than the eastern provinces of land-locked Bolivia), they could blackmail the entire Caribbean/Central American region with it, and try to create a leftist-free zone in this region, as a buffer against the coming powerhouse of South America's Common Market. It would mean starving out Nicaragua, Honduras, El Salvador (about to elect a leftist government), possibly Guatemala--any "uppity" leftist country in the region into social justice and Latin American self-determination--and, of course, Cuba, which is getting low-cost oil from Venezuela in exchange for doctors. It would gravely threaten ALBA (the Bolivarian trade group), and cripple Venezuela and its social programs.

The Venezuela/Russia naval maneuvers are a warning off--a defensive move--and it really needs to be understood as a warning off issued by virtually the entire continent of South America. Chavez is not doing anything like this without consulting the other leaders. That is how they are now working. It is a critical new component of their strength as a region--unity, cooperation among leaders and peoples--and it is why they are likely going to win this remarkable, peaceful, democratic, social justice revolution. They are in it together. Leaders like Lula da Silva and the Kirchners in Argentina have made this very clear. They support Chavez. They have his back. They support Morales and have his back. They support all of the Boliviarian leaders. They know very well that these leaders are democrats with a small d, and good for South America. And, believe me, Russia would not be doing naval maneuvers with Venezuela in the Caribbean without the agreement of most of the leaders in South America.

As for Russia's intentions--I'm sure they are glad to stick it to Bush any way they can. But the situation is vastly different now, than it was back in the Cuban Missile Crisis days. Russia is dealing with an increasingly unified, increasingly democratic South America, with also increasing assertion of sovereignty by almost all Latin American countries. They cannot--and won't try--to bully anybody (like the Bushwhacks have done). And they are just one of many countries that Venezuela--and other South American countries--are newly opening trade with. Brazil and Venezuela just put up the money to build a road from the Atlantic coast of Brazil, through Bolivia, all the way to the Pacific coast of Chile (another leftist government), which has newly granted sea access to Bolivia. This will become a super-highway of trade across the 'bottom' of the world--from Africa to Asia. Russia wants a trade position in the new South American "Common Market." They want it to thrive. They want to be part of it. The U.S. could be, too--if we had a government with any common sense--rather than one that knows only one foreign policy--mass murder and mass theft. Russia is no threat to us or to Latin America. It is our government that is the threat. It is our government that is our enemy and everyone else's. It is our government that slaughtered a hundred thousand innocent people, in one night of "shock and awe" bombing, to get their oil. It is our traitorous government that is right now selling us into permanent bankruptcy, in the most staggering theft in human history. That should be our major concern--not a few Russian boats warning the fuckers off of Venezuela's oil coast.

[happydreams]

66. Fidel played the USSR off against the US for his own ends. This, IMHO, gave him

space and not a small amount of material support. Fidel is one of the wisest and most compassionate leaders of all time.

[Dark]

39. Didn't we already go through this shit once?

Hey, previous generations, what were you, asleep at the wheel?

[olddad56]

40. He needs Russia because Buscho won't deal with him. Just like Castro...

Castro was diplomatically treated like garbage after teh US's puppet Batistia was overthrown or he never would have struck a dael with teh USSR. Same shit different decade. Um..Nixon was a republican too.

[ronnie624]

44. Exactly right.

A couple of doofuses upstairs believe the Venezuelan government shouldn't pursue an alliance with Russia, and obviously regard Chavez's motives with cynicism, but the fact of the matter is, all nations must cultivate political and economic relationships with others. Defense and trade alliances are a fact of life. Venezuela must sell it's oil, seek aid in developing other industries and technologies, defend its sovereignty, and seek security from its enemies. If the United States cannot accept the political realities in Venezuela, and chooses instead to wage war against the democratically elected government there, how can it be trusted as a trading partner? Chavez has no choice but to seek alliances and trade opportunities elsewhere, and Further, as the duly elected leader of a sovereign nation, he has every legal and moral right to do so, without interference from the United States.

[David Zephyr]

54. Castro had limited options then, primarily oil. That is not the case with Latin America 2008.

Latin America does not "need" Russia...at all.

[Dorian Gray]

60. I don't know

how great a friend Russia is to nations.

And i don't know that his words speak for the rest of Latin American leaders.

But, I do know that fewer and fewer people trust us, and that's not a good thing.

[Vidar]

62. As long as the US is "dicking " around down there (cf Cheney), Chavez is right:

they do need Russia.

[happydreams]

67. That's what I'm thinking. Chavez is just playing hardball as he should be.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[happydreams]

72. Zorro: Capítulos

Our last update on Zorro: La espada y la rosa left off with Diego having rescued Esmeralda from cannibals who had escaped from Mel Gibson's last movie. But they were out there in the forest with the whole tribe of Mel Gibson refugees coming after them.

Diego managed to get Esmeralda to the part of the river that had skulls on poles sticking up, which he assured her was a burial ground where the Mel Gibson Indians wouldn't follow them. He even admitted to her that he was Zorro! By the end, they were smooching in the river next to the skulls on the poles. Then they took off their clothes and were smooching some more, and maybe some other stuff as well.

Meanwhile, back at the hacienda, Alejandro de la Vega blew off el Comandante's soldier who came demanding he turn over Yumalay (whose name Telemundo this week apparently decided to spell that way instead of Yumalai.) He denied there was an Indian there, despite the suspicious splotches of blood el Comandante's man had seen near there, and intimidated the soldier into leaving.

We then learn a bit more about the De la Vega past. It seems that Alejandro's true love was an Indian named Regina (at least that was her Christian name after she was baptized) who was evidently involved in some kind of violent action like Yumalay's attempt with her brother to assassinate el Gobernador. We learn that Diego remembers seeing his mother killed, but not the face of the murderer. But when he first meets el Gobernador in Episode 10, his eye-patch starts to trigger Diego's memory, though it has become fully conscious yet.....more

Follow the links, Zorro's babe is muy bonita!!! Which leads me to believe being "The GAY blade" is just a disguise.

http://journals.aol.com/bmiller224/OldHickorysWeblog/entries/2007/02/25/zorro-capitulos-7-10-feb-20-23/4480

[MellowDem]

75. Tyrants need each other

Nothing new here.

[bamacrat]

77. Yeah thats what we need.

Another false flag to be raised pre 1/20/09

[democracy1st]

78. this guy is a true nutcase

[happydreams]

80. Which guy?

How so?

Don't you like geo-politics?

[Unvanguard]

79. I'm alright with that.

Similarly, countries concerned for Russian power might benefit from the US.

Playing the imperialist powers against each other can be useful.

[Duke Newcombe]

81. Every time R's rail against "communism" in the Americas...

...they need only look in the nearest mirror to understand the root causes. The combination of our utter contempt for most other countries and our lack of foresight caused this rush to a resurgent reconstituted USSR (wait for it).

Duke