Nader: Drawing Votes — From McCain

[kskiska]

Source: NYT

Ralph Nader thinks he will be a factor in the presidential race again this year, but this time, he says, he is drawing votes from the Republican ticket.

He sparked the wrath of Democrats in 2000, when many said his third-party candidacy cost Al Gore the election.

He strongly disputes that notion — “There were 19 independent variables, and each one would have put Gore in the White House” he said in an interview today, citing the Supreme Court decision and Mr. Gore’s loss of his home state of Tennessee among them. And he called up The Caucus to boast that he seems to be draining votes from Senator John McCain, the Republican nominee, not Senator Barack Obama, the Democrat’s presidential candidate.

His evidence? He said polls show that when his name is added to the mix, Mr. McCain’s numbers go down.

He also pointed to the fact that the Democrats are not trying to bump him off the ballot in various states, as they tried to in 2004.

Read more: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/nader-drawing-votes-from-mccain/

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Nader has become obsolete.

[clixtox]

13. I question this assertion that Nader is obsolete...

He isn't controlled, or even influenced, by corporate or super/uber-rich oligarchs, which makes nearly unique but certainly not obsolete.

We can only hope that Ralph Nader is just way too far ahead of his time to be appreciated by the ignorant, or corporate toadies, conscious or not!

Perhaps the recent events which put the fascist underpinnings of our economic system under a microscope rather than the antics of witless celebrities will be illuminating enough to expose what is/has been happening.

History will recognize Ralph Nader as one of the few honest, selfless politicians of our era.

Ralph Nader's career certainly compares favorably to any other current player on the national political scene, IMHO!

Think about that for a few minutes.

This is important, try to think about this for a few more minutes before proceeding.



Any honest, informed observer of the 2000 election, and it's transparently corrupt conclusion, realizes that Nader's candidacy had absolutely nothing to do with Gore losing, or Shrub/SCOTUSA stealing it from the somnambulant Democrats.

Tragically the Democratic Party would prefer to continue to "blame" Nader for their horrible 2000 campaign effort and precipitous capitulation.

Not much has changed on the capitulation front among our Democrats in charge during the last 8 years.

So sad!

We certainly can not blame Nader for that either.

Remember what is "off the table" and watch what happens this week when the corporations and the super/uber rich attempt to get "bailed out".

Ironic that we have to rely on Barney Frank to represent us this week, another true political hero of our times.

There are precious few others, way too few...Kucinich, Barbara Lee, Lynn Woolsey and just a few dozen more in the H.R.

[Ferret Annica]

15. I got him off the ballot in Oregon in 2004

I saw petition gatherers doing fraud and turned in what they were doing to the law firm in Oregon monitoring the election in Oregon for Kerry and the SEIU union.

This time, I'm glad he's there.

[AlphaCentauri]

16. obsolete must be our way of seen things, nothing has change since JFK

every election its about the same rhetoric with out change.

[babylonsister]

2. I don't know about Nader, but Bob Barr might. I'm okay with that. nt

[cyr330]

3. I love it. . .

The Repukes were pushing Nader so hard in 2000, since he was hurting Gore. I just love that he's hurting McCain!

:rofl:

[Eric J in MN]

4. Obama probably does better in polls which include Nader because....

...those polls also include Bob Barr.

[nickgutierrez]

8. Ding.

The sad reality is that for all the work Ralph Nader has done as a consumer advocate, he's just going to be remembered as the guy who popped up every four years to go tilting at the presidential windmill.

[Pete2069]

12. A vote for Nader certainly doesn't help Obama.

I d... sure that republicans are not voting for Nader...   So
when Nader gets a vote is takes away from Obama....

[AlphaCentauri]

17. maybe because Nader makes look Obama to the center

[bluestateguy]

5. That would be justice

In 2000 these Republicans cheered Nader on from the sidelines, forcing Gore to campaign in Wisconsin and Minnesota in late October.

In 2004 they signed his petitions to get him on ballots to try and fuck over John Kerry (In one case, Republicans in Virginia were passing around a Nader petition at a monster truck rally).

Let them see how it feels to be "Nadered" this year.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

6. This guy is drawing votes from McCain as well

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/old_grizzled_third_party

[mzmolly]

7. What polls back up his assertion?

:shrug:

[truthisfreedom]

9. I know one person who is voting for Nader...

And he's a comedian.

[olddad56]

10. how many votes? a dozen tops

[hay rick]

11. Splitting the moran vote.

Nader is pathetic in a slimy way. I don't have an argument with his progressive politics. I have a problem with his massive ego. I suppose he will tell us that McCain/Obama is Tweedle Dee/Tweedle Dum again. Turns out the Tweedles are anyone who isn't named Ralph Nader. It's killing him that his consumer advocate legacy will be a footnote in the story of the man who handed the keys of the White House to GWB.

I have to laugh at the "19 independent variables" remark. He's obviously given it a lot of thought. If my actions had caused a fraction of the harm his have unleashed, I would be thinking about it too. So why not 15 "independent variables" or 50? He stopped counting at 19. That's my new lottery number.

[merwin]

14. My step-father is vfoting for him.

[seasat]

18. Apparently Nader's getting some Klan votes.

From the St Pete Times:

She's 39, a stay-at-home mom who homeschools her kids. She's married to a klan member, and her teenage daughters play in a white power music group called Heritage Connection. Pendergraft spends more than 40 hours a week dealing with klan business, all volunteer, and preaches at her father's church every fourth Sunday.
...
The problem with both large-party candidates, she says, is that they don't do enough to help white people. She likes Sarah Palin's rural roots, but she's leaning toward Ralph Nader. Someone needs to pave the way for a major third party. A white people party.

Apparently this member of the Klan sees Nader as the great white hope. You know you've hit rock bottom as a public icon when this is the support you receive.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

19. I'd vote for Pat Paulson before I'd vote for Nader

...and Pat's been dead for eleven years...

[Better Believe It]

20. Oh .... Is It Character Assassination Time? It's Time To Swiftboat Nader!

I see a few of the same old DLC talking points (otherwise known as b.s.) against Ralph Nader are once again being repeated here.

ALL of them were proven to be either lies, distortions and misrepresentations.

But, that doesn't matter .... if you Swiftboat someone like Kerry or Nader some of that b.s. will stick and will continue to be repeated by people who

just don't know any better.

Kerry's campaign used a ton of money and human resources to prevent people from voting for Nader in 2004.

The campaign was successful.

John Kerry defeated Ralph Nader in the presidential election!!

What a tremendous victory that was.

If those resources had been devoted to defeating George W. Bush instead of attacking Ralph Nader, it's likely Kerry would have won the election.

Obama is smarter than that.

[Better Believe It]

21. The Nader Effect:: Bad for Republicans?

The Nader effect: Bad for Republicans?
August 27, 2008
Themorningcall.com

Ralph Nader, pursuing yet another run for president, isn't exactly a blip on the radar in battleground states. On the contrary, Nader is polling between 6 and 8 percent in Pennsylvania, Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada, a new Time/CNN poll shows.

A depressing sign for Democrats? Not exactly. Nader appears to be pulling almost all of his support from potential John McCain voters.

In Pennsylvania, for example, Barack Obama leads McCain by just 5 points (48 percent to 43 percent) when voters are asked to choose between the two, but 9 points (47 percent to 38 percent) when Nader is thrown into the mix. Nader gets 7 percent.

Maybe the Obama campaign should be helping to keep Nader on the ballot.

http://blogs.mcall.com/penn_ave/2008/08/the-nader-effec ...

-------------------------------------------------

Does Nader hurt McCain in PA?
By Wally Edge
August 27, 2008
Politickerpa.com
In addition to showing U.S. Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) with a 5 point advantage (48 percent to 43 percent) over U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), today's TIME/CNN poll also suggests that Obama's chances in the Keystone State may be boosted by the presence of third-party candidates on the ballot.

When voters were asked to choose among Obama, McCain and three third-party candidates, the Democrat's 5 point lead grew to 9 percentage points.

Obama leads McCain 47 percent to 38 percent, while independent candidate Ralph Nader attracts 7 percent of the vote and Libertarian candidate Bob Barr drew an additional 1 percent.

http://www.politickerpa.com/wallyedgepa/1513/does-nader ...




NBC/WSJ Poll: Obama keeps lead over McCain
Voters see Democrat as riskier pick, but rival has negatives of his own
By Mark Murray
Deputy political director
NBC News

After embarking on his highly publicized trip overseas, Obama enjoys a 47-41 percent advantage over McCain, which is unchanged from last month. The survey was conducted of 1,003 registered voters from Friday to Monday, July 18-21, during Obama's overseas trip. It has an overall margin of error of plus-minus 3.1 percentage points.

But Obama’s lead over McCain expands to 13 points when third-party candidates Ralph Nader and Bob Barr are added into the mix — with Obama at 48 percent, McCain at 35 percent, Nader at 5 percent and Barr at 2 percent.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25816799 /

-----------------------------

Could Third-Party Hopefuls Foil McCain?
AOL News

Polls show Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama running close in the presidential election. But could third-party candidates siphon votes away from McCain, much as Ralph Nader was blamed for doing to Al Gore in 2000? The idea has been floating around for awhile, and this week's NBC News / Wall Street Journal poll underscores the possibility that such candidates could hurt McCain.

According to the poll results, Obama had a 6-point lead over McCain, even though most respondents thought he was a riskier pick for president. But when voters were asked to factor in two other candidates -- former GOP congressman Bob Barr, who's running for president as a Libertarian, and Nader, who's running as an independent -- Obama's lead opened up.

Here's how MSNBC summarized it: "... Obama’s lead over McCain expands to 13 points when third-party candidates Ralph Nader and Bob Barr are added into the mix — with Obama at 48 percent, McCain at 35 percent, Nader at 5 percent and Barr at 2 percent. However, it’s important to note that the pro-Obama (48 percent) and anti-Obama vote (adding up to 42 percent) is consistent with the result from the two-way match up."

http://news.aol.com/elections/article/could-third-party ...