Venezuela arrests 2 in alleged assassination plot

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Venezuela arrests 2 in alleged assassination plot
CHRISTOPHER TOOTHAKER, Associated Press Writer


September 24, 2008 2:35 PM

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - Venezuelan authorities have arrested two people suspected of plotting to kill Hugo Chavez by blowing up the president's plane with heavy artillery, the country's top security official said Wednesday.

Justice Minister Tarek El Aissami said the suspects were apprehended Tuesday during a raid on a house in western Zulia state, where authorities found a cannon and four grenades. He said the names of the suspects would not be revealed for ''strategic reasons.''

At least six people, including retired and active military officers, have been detained so far for alleged links to the plot. Military prosecutors are questioning others. None of the suspects has been formally charged.''What was being planned here was the president's assassination ... a plan with the objective of sowing violence in our country'' and stopping the government agenda, El Aissami told Venezuela's state-run news agency.

El Aissami said the suspects caught in Zulia could have been planning to kill the president by shooting down the presidential jet - a possibility that Chavez raised when the purported plot was first discovered. ''The cannon we found is for downing planes. It has highly destructive power,'' he said.



Read more: http://www.newspress.com/Top/Article/article.jsp?Section=WORLD&ID=565373642389981298

[hack89]

1. It will be tough keeping the military in line

with their culture of coups and military involvement in politics, I am sure many senior officer harbor the same ambitions the Chavez had when he attempted his coup. I suspect that one reason for Hugo's citizen militias is form a military power base that he has complete confidence in.

While I don't particularly care for Chavez, I hope that he stays in office long enough to pass power to a democratically elected successor - that is a vital step for fledgling democracies.

[EFerrari]

19. Every election cycle that is completed without violence is a step forward.

And I hope with you that younger leaders are making their way up in the ranks. It must be very difficult to allow that natural process to unfold when your government is always under attack, though.

What the Chavez government has put into play can't really be controlled entirely anymore. They've folded in so many people that used to be excluded. I hope that the way forward can be peaceful.

[drgonzosghost]

2. OK...Here Goes...Hugo Chavez is a Douchebag

I literally just finished a deep conversation with a Dr. friend of mine who is Venezuelan. After learning 12 metric assloads of information from her, I came away from the conversation with this: Hugo Chavez is a complete dick, and the "left" of South America is 550% different in concept and deed than the "left" of the northern hemisphere. People get kidnapped in the middle of the night to be tortured and incarcerated on trumped up charges of "conspiring a US backed coup". Sure the US(wrongfully)tries this from time to time, but not all the time. Just enough times to make it a blanket excuse to dispose of dissent.

I know alot of people here really like Chavez and think of him as a "common man's hero", but that shiite isn't true. He is a dimwitted thug who tricked the lesser educated to rise up in blind support only to take complete advantage of them afterwards. Sound familiar? Seriously, some people on the left here in the US really need to look closer at this guy. Ask a Venezuelan, I did and her word has always been gold to me. Even Bush didn't have the stones to say "hey guess what? remember term limits? I decided they aren't for me..."

[ck4829]

3. Chavez isn't as bad when compared to the 'opposition'

He is bad, and he should go sooner rather than later.

But, I wouldn't like the so-called opposition to replace him either.

They've tried to violently oust Chavez and they've killed innocent people.

Venezuela needs to be free from both Chavez and his more extreme opponents as well.

[drgonzosghost]

4. Agreed 150%

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

9. Howzabout unloading a few of those assloads on us here?

Just to let us in on the no doubt Very Factual facts... :shrug:

[High Plains]

10. So, a disgruntled member of the bourgeoisie whines about Chavez...

That's a shocker. No need for facts or analysis after that; namecalling will do.

I don't know about the difference between the South American and North American lefts, except that we don't have one up here. Hell, this is a country where mainstream media refers to Ted Kennedy as the left.

[subsuelo]

15. probably has financial interest in seeing Chavez 'removed', too

[fascisthunter]

21. That's Exactly What I Was Thinking...

[Judi Lynn]

11. Maybe your friend will explain how bogus the recording is which has been played on Venezuela

tv and radio, in which men discuss the plot for a coup and assassination, naming names.

She should be able to shed a lot of light on that for you, and prove even more how wrong Hugo Chavez, elected by a large majority, is for Venezuela.

On September 10, host of television program The Razorblade and candidate of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) for Carabobo governor in the November elections, Mario Silva, presented a recording in which a new coup and assassination plot planned against Chavez is discussed by former and active military officers.

Among the alleged participants are vice-admiral Carlos Alberto Millan Millan, who was on the verge of becoming commander general of the Navy.

In a fragment of the conversation, retired National Guard general Wilfredo Barroso Herrera outlined the taking over of the Miraflores presidential palace as their main goal: “There has to be only one objective … all our efforts towards where Mr is. If he is in Miraflores, then all our efforts go towards there.”

“We are going to take over Miraflores Palace, we are going to take over television plants”, the recording continued.

Also outlined was a plan to take over control of the Army general command with “the troops inside”, including “those that are in the barracks, in the Callejon Machado, 200 metres from the General Command”.

One of the actions could be to strike while Chavez was on a plane, aiming to “blow him up or capturing him with planes while the air … we have to plan it well”.

More:
http://www.greenleft.org.au/2008/767/39565

~~~~~~~~

Venezuela's Chavez: new coup plot discovered
Sep 11, 2008 03:22 PM

IAN JAMES
The Associated Press

CARACAS– President Hugo Chavez said his government has uncovered a plot to overthrow him and detained a group of alleged conspirators.

Chavez said Thursday that "various" suspects were detained, and accused them of trying to assassinate him with tacit backing from his political opponents and the United States.

A group of current and former military officers were recorded during tapped phone conversations discussing blowing up the presidential jet or bombing the presidential palace, Chavez said. He played some of the recordings during a televised speech.

"They're the same coup-plotters," said Chavez, who survived a failed 2002 coup. Without offering evidence, he said the suspected conspirators had support from "the political opposition ... the U.S. empire.''

U.S. officials have repeatedly denied Chavez's accusations that Washington has backed attempts to overthrow him.

While the leftist leader has regularly accused opponents of trying to oust him, he has not recently given such a detailed account of any purported plot.

Chavez ordered his defense minister to investigate the alleged plot involving an active vice admiral and other former military officers. He said his intelligence services had been "following this for some time.''

Chavez ally Mario Silva, who hosts a program on state television, first played recordings of the purported phone conversations late Wednesday. Silva said Vice Admiral Carlos Millan was among those accused, along with two other ex-officers from the National Guard and the air force.

More:
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/497577

[fla nocount]

13. Dim-witted thug? Who, Mel Martinez? n/t

[edwardian]

17. Humor, undoubtedly.

I , too, have friends and even family in Venezuela. The reports I hear from them are positive and considerably more informed than your screed. Pres. Hugo Chavez has a record of promoting and enabling grass-roots democratic action. I can easily imagine a doctor feeling as if Chavez policies are "wrong", afterall, she does represent the oligarchic way of life in Venezuela. Kidnappings and disappearances were part of Venezuelan "politics" before Chavez and I suspect that the arrests "in the middle of the night..." are bogus. Such stories come out of revolutionary environments for many reasons, truth not necessarily being topmost concern. I look at the record of the Bolivarian Revolution and I see the kind of change that Latin America has craved for so long. As for your dig at the left, what is a Democrat if not a leftist? I disagree with your screed and I have asked many Venezuelans...

[EFerrari]

18. Yeah, and my barber's paperboy's gardener's sister's boyfriend

thinks you're full of it.

lol

[Mudoria]

5. Blow up a plane with heavy artillery?

That even sounds stupid. I wonder who picked out the poor dupes to be trotted out for the public in this farce.

[drgonzosghost]

6. Yeah, that's pretty much a Tom and Jerry plan there.

[ngant17]

7. anti-aircraft artillery (AAA) doesn't seem so silly to me

they'be been around since at least airplanes were used for military purposes, circa WWI. They are a standard part of defense, and they're fairly destructive weapon systems.

The more modern weapons are designed to blast out 5000 rounds per minute. Hi-performance flak guns. Some systems include guided missles packaged with the artillery gun itself.

Some can have the turrent leveled horizontally for spraying out ground fire.

I have no doubt that what the Venezuelan police found was a very deadly, state-of-the-art killing machine, if not US-made it was likely funded from CIA black budgets. There are all sorts of these artillery available from Russia, China, ect.

[drgonzosghost]

8. Okay, but how about the grenades then?

Or is there a special throwing method that can hit a moving plane?

[ronnie624]

22. There is no claim in the article by anyone

that the grenades were intended to bring down a plane, only that they were found along with the anti-aircraft artillery.

Did you not read the article? You should do so in the future, to at least avoid the appearance of extreme foolish.

[happyslug]

34. From what I read, bad translation, Grenades and Heavy Artillery?

Then said the Grenades were for the Heavy Artillery which was design to shot down planes. Probably a mis-translation, Grenades for Rockets or Missiles, and "Heavy Artillery" for "Long range Anti Aircraft Weapon".

Remember we are talking about something said in Spanish, translated into English by someone who is NOT familiar with the terms actually used. I could see someone translating a term for Ordinance to Grenades with ease. Worse if the Military term used IN Venezuela refers to any ordinance as a Grenade (Or uses the term Ordinance or Shell even for Grenade). The key is getting the original statements and someone who understand the technical terms in both English and Spanish.

"Heavy Artillery" may be even worse, the tern "Heavy Artillery" not only applies to heavy Artillery pieces, but the fact such pieces have long range. Missiles tend to have long range and thus replaced most heavy Anti-Aircraft Artillery in the 1950s. Many units NEVER changed their designation (In fact most US Anti-Aircraft units decedent from Heavy Coast Artillery units of the Pre-WWII period, such units used weapons as large as 16 inch before converting to AA Artillery of 90 and 120 mm then to Missiles). The round such heavy guns used were generally separately loaded from the powder, but that changed when the unit converted to AA guns with their Round and powder issued as one unit, and then to missiles which against tended to be issued as one unit, like a grenade or Rifle Round NOT the semi-fixed of Separately loaded rounds of Artillery.

Something like the term Grenade and Heavy Artillery when mis-translated is something to jest about, but not dismiss the claim. The Article clearly says the "Grenades" were for the use of the "Heavy Artillery" which was capable of shooting down plans in flight. That implies to me probably a missiles, maybe a Stinger, with four Missiles ready to go (maybe Russian equivalent, the Russians will sell anything to anyone so possible).

My favorite Sorry of a Mistranslation occurred around 1967. The US and Russians were talking about arms reduction (If memory serves me well, the actual topic may have been something else) and in that discussion the Russian delegate used a Russian Idiom about a Rotten Potatoes. The translator, being Russian, knew the Indium was an indium and translated it into the neatest equivalent American Indium he knew of. That Indium bing "N----- in a wood Pile" If you can NOT figure out what I meant by N-----, ask a friend, I am trying to clean up my language). The biggest problem was the Chief US delegate was Black, the Americans took this as an Insult by the Russian Delegate and immediately walked out. This left the Russians dumbstruck, because all they had talked about is a rotten potato. It took about 30 minutes for both sides to realized the problem was a bad translation NOT any intention insult. Both sides had a good laugh at the expense of the translator and went back to their discussion. One of the problem during such discussion was the US almost always agreed to having a Russian do the Translation. The reason for this was simple, most Americans did NOT know Russian (And most of those that did, the US Government did not trust). The Russians had extensive list of people who knew both languages and thus translated. The problem is it is easier to translate into one's native tongue all the idiom of the language. It is hard for a non-native to fully understand those those oddities. Thus the best way to do such translations is dual translations. Each side providing a Translator, he or she checks on the other translation to make sure it is correct, but generally only translate into their native tongue. Again that may be the problem here, someone translating terms they are NOT familiar with into English, even if it is not their native Tongue. Grenades can be something used as Ammunition, Heavy Artillery may be something to shot down planes but that is NOT how those terms are used by native Speakers.

[Peace Patriot]

12. Interesting that it was Zulia--my pick for the Rumsfeld's main target in South America,

when he urged "swift action" by the U.S. in support of "friends and allies" in South America, in his op-ed of Dec 07 in the Washington Post.*

Zulia holds Venezuela's main oil reserves. Its governor was the rightwing opposition candidate in the election. It sits on the Caribbean, vulnerable to the recently reconstituted U.S. 4th fleet. It is adjacent to Colombia (rightwing paramilitary death squads closely tied to the Bushwhack funded Colombian military--$6 BILLION--Blackwater active there, U.S. special forces). It could be the linchpin of a leftist-free zone in the Caribbean/Central America, and extend global corporate predator control over the hump of South America (Colombia, northern Venezuela). With Zulia's oil, they could blackmail everybody in the region--Nicaragua, Cuba, El Salvador if it goes leftist, kick Honduras back into line. And they would have the added satisfaction of taking books and schoolhouses away from small children in Venezuela, deny medical care to the poor, and cripple all social justice programs. A Bushwhack wet dream.

Rafael Correa, president of Ecuador, says it's a 3-country strategy, to instigate fascist secessionist movements, and split off the resource-rich provinces of Bolivia, Ecuador and Venezuela. The fascists declare their "independence" from the leftist government, and Rumsfeld & co. rush to the rescue of these "freedom fighters," when the national government's military moves to keep control of the province. But--although Bolivia was the first hit, with U.S.-funded rioters and murderers last week--I think Zulia, Venezuela, is the most vulnerable, because of its strategic location (on the Caribbean)--it must look like a "sitting duck" to the Bushwhacks, there for the taking--one of the biggest oil reserves in the hemisphere, essentially unprotected (vis a vis the U.S. military)--and I think it is also the most cherished prize for the Bushwhacks.

I'm very glad that Venezuelan authorities have uncovered at least part of the dirty rotten scheme. The South Americans seem to be acting very fast these days, to head off Bushwhack plots, and also seem to have a coordinated strategy of response to them (and also probably with regard to intelligence).

The mess that our mass murdering president has created in Bolivia is not going well for the Bushwhacks. For one thing, Bolivia is land-locked and I think they were counting on Paraguay as a staging area for Rumsfeld's "swift action"--but then Paraguay elected its first leftist government, ever, and their new president wants the U.S. military out of his country. Secondly, Brazil and Argentina are absolutely in solidarity with Evo Morales, and have stated repeatedly that they will not trade with secessionist states in Bolivia. So who are these white separatists--whom Morales has made rich, by re-negotiating the gas contracts and DOUBLING Bolivia's revenues from $1 billion/yr to $2 billion/yr--going to sell the gas to, that they are trying to steal ALL the revenue from? They disgraced their cause, by their massacre of unarmed peasants, rioting and blowing up a gas pipeline. UNASUR unanimously opposed them, and is stepping in, as a united South American front, to end their violence and their secessionist ambitions.

If the Bushwhacks wanted to cause mayhem and death, they did that. But it is not having the effect they likely planned on. It may be just stage #1 of the mayhem, but it appears to me that Morales and the other South American leaders are handling this very well, and very confidently. They main targets (which included the new president of Paraguay) all cried foul early. They went public. And they have taken a lot of the right actions to head it off. And they are remarkably unified in doing so.

----------------

Here is the person that DU posters who call Chavez a "tyrant" (or, alternately, a douchebag) are aligned with:
"The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez," by Donald Rumsfeld, 12/1/07
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/30/AR2007113001800.html

[Judi Lynn]

16. Zulia is most surely the place. This article hints there will be more to learn concerning

Colombian involvement, as well, no surprise, I'm sure!

Pity for Ecuador's President Correa that he doesn't know as much about these things as some right-wing U.S. geniuses who claim it's all a figment of Chavez's imagination.

Here's an article just located with more details:

Venezuela: growing evidence of new coup plot

Federico Fuentes
20 September 2008

Four retired and one active Venezuelan military officials have been arrested, a further 33 questioned and the US ambassador expelled in the wake of the September 10 revelation of a planned coup and assassination attempt against President Hugo Chavez.

New evidence of taped conversations made public a week later revealed that the conspirators planned to carry out the coup attempt on October 15, just over a month out from the November 23 elections for governors and mayors.

On September 14, United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV) candidate for Carabobo governor Mario Silva, who first released the taped conversations on his TV program The Razorblade, accused the current Carabobo governor Carlos Acosta Carlez and Guarico governor Eduardo Manuitt — until recently PSUV members — of involvement in the plans to overthrow Chavez.

Mounting evidence

Evidence of the coup plot became public when taped phone conversations between retired vice-admiral Carlos Alberto Millan Millan, retired National Guard general Wilfredo Barroso Herrera and retired Air Force general Eduardo Baez Torrealba were broadcast on state television.

The discussion included plans that potentially involved the take over of Miraflores presidential palace, including potentially bombing the building. The conspirators also talked off the need to “take Chavez out”, including blowing up the presidential plane with him onboard.

Millian, Barrosa, major Elimena Labarca Soto and active lieutenant colonel Ruperto Chiquinquira Sanchez Casare — the last two from the National Guard — are now awaiting trial. It is believed that Baez is now out of the country.

Silva also alleged the involvement of former defence minister in Chavez’s government, retired general Raul Isaias Baduel, and a prominent shipping businessperson.

A special commission to investigate the coup plot set up by the National Assembly has uncovered fresh evidence on the involvement of others.

Speaking to the commission on September 17, former vice-president under Chavez, Jose Vincent Rangel, provided evidence of the involvement of other military and civilian figures, as well as figures in the Colombian military.

He also accused the US government of involvement.

Rangel alleged that Air Force police commander, lieutenant colonel Ruperto Sanchez, had handed out 45 security credentials for the Libertador Air Base to civilians and paramilitaries.

He also provided evidence of the involvement in the plot of seven other colonels from the Air Force.

More:
http://www.greenleft.org.au/2008/768/39636

[fla nocount]

14. The CIA continue to eff-up OP's with their Baptista mentality.

There's just not enough self-serving neo-cons in Venezuela for an effective coup. We should be so lucky.

[WriteDown]

20. Par for the course....

Amazingly, Hugo was able to predict the plot before it even had been investigated and course they cite evidence that will be revealed "later." I am wondering how much later is "later." Names not revealed as usual. No photos. It will be interesting to see if any evidence is actually predicted.

[WriteDown]

23. Meant provided and not predicted.

I shouldn't talk and type.

[EFerrari]

24. The transcript and audio of the plotters has been on the net for days and days.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x7676

[WriteDown]

26. And what does this prove exactly?

Conversations are a little odd.

[EFerrari]

27. Law enforcement normally calls that "evidence" and

there are plenty of names and all the things you claimed were not there.

I find those claims a little odd, to tell you the truth.

[WriteDown]

28. There is no link established between those accused...

and the actual tapes. Also, they state that they tried to get the "gringos" to help, but apparently they wouldn't so is the US off the hook?

[EFerrari]

29. So, those people who you say can't be connected to the tapes

are America's alibi?

lol

I hope YOU are not a lawyer. :)

It's no secret that Bush wants Chavez out and Morales as well and for a trifecta, Lugo.

This is just life lived close to the United States.

[WriteDown]

30. No...

I was showing how this is flimsy at best. Either the tapes are true and the US said they were staying out of it or they are false and who knows who the heck they have in custody. I am leaning toward the latter.

[EFerrari]

31. Not exactly. The transcripts show they have been in discussions with the US

since before the referendum, since December:

Wilfredo Barroso: Nosotros con los gringos en diciembre tratamos de pedirles que nos apoyaran con unos satelitales.

* * *

So, when did our State Department warn Chavez about these plans? Hmm?

And no one is disputing the provenance of those recordings.

[Judi Lynn]

25. New Coup D'Etat Rumblings in Venezuela

09/25/08
06:28:02 am
New Coup D'Etat Rumblings in Venezuela
Stephen Lendman

~snip~
On September 10, Venezolana de Television's (VTV) La Hojilla program disclosed a recording (from an undisclosed source) of a planned military coup against Chavez - by active and retired plotters. Participants named were Vice Admiral and National Guard Forces Inspector General Carlos Alberto Millan Millan. National Guard General Wilfredo Barroso Herrera, and retired Air Force General Eduardo Baez Torrealba (involved in the April 2002 aborted coup). Unknown is who else is behind this and how deep the suspected plot runs.

Conversations recorded were about "tak(ing) the Miraflores (presidential) Palace (government headquarters and) the TV installations....that is all effort towards where (Chavez) is. If he's in Miraflores, the effort goes toward there." Talk also was about seizing the "command headquarters (with) the troops inside" and about Maracay, Aragua state's Air Base Libertador where Venezuela's F-16s and other planes are based.

Baez Torrealba was heard saying: "We are divided into four zones....east, west, and two in the centre" and have an F-16 pilot. He mentions either attacking Chavez's plane or capturing it. Possibly the presidential palace the way the CIA engineered it in Chile for Augusto Pinochet against Salvador Allende on September 11, 1973 - with bombs, rockets and tank fire. Open warfare on Santiago's streets. Whether planned for Caracas is anyone's guess but it certainly is possible.

Chavez knows the history as well as past conspiracies against himself. He said on-air that his government "infiltrated the most radical and fascist movements (and have) known for a long time that they are looking for land and air rockets and sophisticated equipment to blow up the presidential plane" and that past plans were to bomb the Miraflores. He also knows that CIA is behind them and said if there's a coup, "the counter-coup would be overwhelming" - meaning a mass popular uprising to reverse it with military support, similar to 2002.

Chavez then confirmed the detentions of several suspected coop plotters and said others fled the country. He also expelled US ambassador, Patrick Duddy. Gave him 72 hours to leave, and recalled his Washington envoy, Bernardo Alvarez, in sympathy with Bolivia's Evo Morales. On September 10, he declared US ambassador, Philip Goldberg, persona non grata. Accused him of supporting eastern Bolivian fascist elements and working with them to plan a coup against his presidency.

On September 20, another incident occurred, so far unexplained. In west Caracas, a grenade was thrown from a residential building, killing two and injuring 19 others. A 23-year old man was identified as the perpetrator, who then, it was claimed, jumped to his death from the building's eighth floor. No further information is available at this time but authorities are investigating.

More:
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2008/09/25/p28995

[happydreams]

32. Damn this is infuriating. I wish the Bolivarians could get the UN involved.

to condemn and investigate this. Follow the leads back to D.C.

[EFerrari]

33. Much more likely now since there is a President of the UN Assembly

that lived through the Raygun years in Nicaragua.

Take that, pendejos, living and dead!

:toast:

[ronnie624]

35. I'm glad I finally got around to reading this.

I've been distracted by the supposed "financial meltdown", which I believe is closely related to the dark political elements that attack Bolivarianism (Henry Kissinger is a ranking International Advisory Board member for AIG).

Hopefully others who might be inclined to befuddlement will follow your link. Good, verifiable, fact filled analysis is THE remedy for the verbal diarrhea by certain amateur wing nut propagandists here.

The next few months will be a nail-biter for Venezuela.

Thanks for the good info.

[wvbygod]

40. State TV disclosed a recording from an undisclosed source

Ya got to love the stuff they can make up. Shall I disclose my undisclosed recording I got
from an an undisclosed source that has some Hugo supporters planning a takeover of an undisclosed
US federal agency? It is the real thing. Really it is. It's only a matter of time before it makes it to thepeoplesvoice.org to prove it.

[EFerrari]

41. And there is eerily no one in officialdom, here or there,

challenging the provenance of the recording.

Maybe you should do a voice analysis and really show them all!

[wvbygod]

36. Hugo really is using the bush playbook

Still a tinpot, but one that chooses the poor as his army instead of the rich.

They both should just combine their playbooks.

[ronnie624]

37. Snappy sloganeering

is no match for well-sourced information. Do you have any?

[wvbygod]

38. So says Venezuela's state-run news agency

>None of the suspects has been formally charged.''What was being planned here was the president's assassination ... a plan with the objective of sowing violence in our country'' and stopping the government agenda, El Aissami told Venezuela's state-run news agency.

I guess you believe everything that comes out of the bush press secretary too.
If you want to put your money on "Venezuela's state-run news agency" then knock yourself out.

[ronnie624]

39. I see.

You haven't read any of the material posted in the threads on Latin America. There are lots of good books available about the history of U.S. interventionism in Latin America as well. Perhaps one day you'll get around to reading some.