Airline Pilot Stirs Christian Discussion (ok passengers, who's Christian?)

[Wonk]

Published: February 8, 2004
by The Associated Press

An American Airlines pilot asked Christians on board a flight to New York to identify themselves and suggested that the non-Christians discuss the faith with them, an airline spokesman said yesterday.

(snip)

The pilot told the airline that he then suggested that the other passengers use the flight time to talk to the identified Christians about their faith.

more...
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/08/nyregion/08pilot.html

x(

[Terwilliger]

1. umm...why?

:shrug:

[Wonk]

136. 60 Minutes (02/08/04) 'The Righteous Army' On The Rise

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1098390

[khanreaper]

161. Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld Image: Rights/Ownership Retention

Wonk:

Hello, this is the author and maintainer of http://www.wherearethewmd.org. While it flatters me to have seen this image: proliferate across the internet, I would like to retain at least some ownership of it. In saying this, I welcome you to use it; however, if you do use it, please have it link back to http://www.wherearethewmd.org as I have in this post.

This goes for anyone else wishing to use this image.

[LefterOfLeft]

2. Isn't that illegal...

Inasmuch as the FAA is a federal agency?

[Skittles]

3. I WOULD BE F***ING OUTRAGED

I'D FEAR THIS NUTCASE MORE THAN A PILOT WHO HAD BEEN DRINKING.

[aquart]

12. Passengers interviewed said they were scared.

I notice that aspect is totally omitted from the NYT story.

Don't want to give the idea that a fanatic Christian is as scary as a fanatic Muslim?

[Skittles]

13. NO SHIT THEY WERE SCARED

I'd be thinking he was fixing to ditch the damn plane. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

[maggrwaggr]

14. hell yeah I'd be scared

to have some fanatic pilot behind the controls of the jet I'm flying on, telling me about "meeting my maker". Meanwhile he's locked behind the terrorist-secured door to the cockpit.

What a goddamn fruitcake. I hope this guy never flies again.

[liberalhistorian]

23. As a liberal Christian, I can

say with certainty that a fanatic Christian is as scary and dangerous as a fanatic Muslim, and I'd have been absolutely fucking OUTRAGED had I been on that plane!!!!!

When are these nutball wingnut fundies gonna understand that their most fanatic adherents are just as bad as the fanatic Muslims they love to hate and demonize, and that what this pilot did is just as bad as the kind of so-called "persecution" and "discrimination" they're always whining and weeping and wailing they're a victim of in this country, which is total bullshit! It'll be interesting to discuss this with the members of my church tomorrow, something tells me they ain't gonna be too thrilled with this "Christian" pilot!

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

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[Robin Hood]

53. You can't cuss and be a Christian at the same time?

Where does it say that in the bible. Furthermore, where does is any of the crap that the freaky fanatical white trash Christians say is in the bible?

The freaky trash wing of Christianity has bastardized the religion beyond recognition, much like the Taliban bastardized Islam.

[liberalhistorian]

56. Thank you, couldn't have

said it better myself!

THIS is one of the major problems with modern Christianity, focusing on sh-uh, excuse me, I mean, cra--uh, make that stupid stuff like swearing, when there was NOTHING in the New Testament about it and our swear words didn't even exist at that time, instead of the really important stuff, like helping people and being a voice for the voiceless and bringing hope to the hopeless and those the rest of society has forgotten and deems unimportant.

And the wingnut fundies most certainly have distorted Christianity beyond recognition and made it seem like their version is the only true one, which has damaged it immensely.

[Sapphocrat]

58. And, as I recall...

...a certain long-haired liberal got mightily pissed off at the moneychangers in the temple.

Somehow, I can't imagine him spouting off with a mere, "You nasty so-and-so's you! You stop this naughty... cockadoodie behavior NOW, or I'll just-- oooo, I'll just spit!"

I'm no Christian, but I sure do like that Jesus -- he was no wimp!

More power to angry liberal Christians!

:D

[Malva Zebrina]

74. I think he got pissed off because the money changers were

in cahoots with the Romans. Same as the situation in Iraq, Iraqi killing Iraqi who work for the occupation government.

people pick and choose what they want out of the bible. It says to spread the word so you get pilots spreading the word. I would bet no Christian stood up on that plane and voiced opposition to the day's theme. On edit--second thought someone had to tell the story so that it made the news so someone was pissed at the pilot. It also says to sell your stuff and give it to the poor. Few pay attention to that one. Man makes the god and the religion and it changes according to social and ecoomic situations. People believed slavery a good and quoted the bible to prove it. Now it is bad, but the bible is still the same--still advocates slavery. We have a president who claims to be a Christain also, who believes a god talks to him and apparently tells him to murder innocent people, lie and covet other person's goods. I am sure Billy Graham has given him the bible verse that sanctions his evil acts.

[blondeatlast]

97. Had I been there, I damn sure would have protested.

But I prolly would have been greeted at the gate by armed G-men.

Still, this angry Christian would have, I can assure you of that.

[blondeatlast]

96. Proud to be an angry liberal Christian!

Thank you, Sapphocrat!

Jesus was, sure as HELL!, no wimp. He reminds me of lots of the liberals I know.

And more power to you, for, well, whatever you need!

:toast:

[duhneece]

84. I see Jesus as Peacemaker

One who saw the most powerful empire on earth as spiritually bankrupt, who exposed and called others to challenge the violence and exploitation of the domination system, Lover of all people, especially the destitute and marginalized....
Even if the pilot had asked if the passengers wanted to share and discuss what is in common with all religious/spiritual faiths (which is the kind of conversation I enjoy) it is very inappropriate to have that discussion started by the pilot, in flight. The pilot is an idiot.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

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[0rganism]

145. I seem to recall the new Canadian PM was shocked at bush's cursing

According to the article, bush was talking about what a religious guy he is, mentioning "God" and "fuck" in the same sentence.

Now I know it's commonplace to yell out "Oh, God" when enjoying a really nice fuck, but is "fuck" the right word to use when promoting one's religion?

[aquart]

54. Welcome to DU. But...

If Christians are engaged in living as Christlike a life as possible, minus or including the nasty hours on the cross, you might want to recall the lad had a serious temper.

Or do you think he was tossing flowers to the moneychangers in the Temple?

[Retrograde]

133. and what about that fig tree?

"No figs, huh? I'll show you!" <blast>
"uh, Jesus, it's not fig season yet...."

Seriously, did the pilot say anything about being prepared to meet your maker? Isn't making a threat against an airline a federal offense? I'd be tempted to call the airline from one of those handy airphones and report suspicious behavior on board.

linda

[enki23]

61. while parts of the bible are generally against fucking...

there really isn't anything in there about *saying* fuck. nor any hebrew equivalents, that i'm aware of.

[rooboy]

68. Please take that comment of yours...

and email it directly to the White House. Apparently George Bush loves to use the 'f' word when talking about doing God's will.

[Barad Simith]

73. Oh, no, you see, you're confusing liberal Christians with...

...anal-retantive, judgmental, hypocritical, right-wing, fundamentalist, Bible-shouting lunatics. I'm not clear on how you could have confused the two. Is it possible you have been hanging out with the latter for far too long?

[blondeatlast]

98. Maybe just a few DUers, actually. It's a common misperception.

[leftchick]

78. I hear dubya uses the fuck word....

with impunity.... :eyes:

[FlaGranny]

81. Interesting, in that it's the same kind of language

our illustrious "convervative Christian" president uses.

[Hekate]

67. May you be abundantly blessed...

...for speaking out now. We all need you to be the voice of sanity. The US needs people like you and Bill Moyers and the folks at the Sojourner magazine to reclaim your religion from the dangerously scary nutjobs who have hijacked it.

I am a student of religions, and find much to respect in all of them (well, not the human or animal sacrifice part), but I draw the line at the fundamentalists in the three monotheistic desert religions. Talking about religious tolerance with a lot of them is like talking about a woman's right to choose... Political and religious liberals think the Earth is big enough for all of us and all our opinions, but the fundies think they have to save my soul--or else.

When I first met my husband he told me that over his lifetime he'd had a lot of unchosen lunchroom conversations about religion with fundies, and they always ended the same way. First: oh, so you're Jewish? Then the exegesis of the Old Testament, after which his acquaintance would "share the good news" about Jesus. And finally the clincher: now that my husband had been informed about The Truth, if he chose to go on being Jewish he was going straight to Hell and fiery torment.

Nice.

Now, I'm following my own non-mainstream distinctly minority religious path, not bothering anyone else, but this is America and my right to do so is enshrined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

I was unprepared for the sickening lurch I just got from reading about this airline pilot. If I'd been on that airplane, I would have been scared shitless. In fact, I am scared shitless.

Pass the airsickness bag, please. And hang on to your First Amendment rights -- it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Hekate

[leesa]

91. But will they say and do something about the bad behavior of Fundies??

Christians are the only ones who can fight these monsters. You will be rejected too because you aren't re-born according to their specifications, but you have more of a chance than non-Christians.

[blondeatlast]

100. I try, believe me I try, but like the Democrats, the leftist Christians

are not well organized.

On a personal level, I fight it everwhere I see the Talibornagainization of my faith, but, while we far exceed them in numbers, they SHOUT. I follow my prophet and my Lord; they want me to whisper.

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites : for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in , neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Matthew 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Matthew 23:

[liberalhistorian]

157. Blondeatlast,

thank you for your great posts on this thread and I think maybe it's time we liberal Christians started standing up and really speaking out, the way Jesus would have. We're always too worried about "causing trouble", and being "impolite", etc., etc., and that just can't continue anymore with the current situation.

We are called to be a beacon of light and hope, and we are supposed to stand up and call out those who would be false/phoney fanatics, who would twist and distort and bastardize our religion and its teachings, and we are to do so in no uncertain terms.

I think it's high past time we started doing that in all the strength of our large numbers. A group of liberal/progressive Christian and Jewish clergy have already formed a coalition this past summer to do just that.

[blondeatlast]

101. I try, believe me I try, but like the Democrats, the leftist Christians

are not well organized.

On a personal level, I fight it everwhere I see the Talibornagainization of my faith, but, while we far exceed them in numbers, they SHOUT. I follow my prophet and my God; they want me to whisper. If God is a punishing God, as the fundies believe, they need to re think their belief, because God doesn't care for hypocrisy one little bit:

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites : for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in , neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Matthew says that He will accept non-believers into the Kingdom, but hypocrites are in for damnation.

Edit: too quick on the post button

[blondeatlast]

95. AGREED! AGREED! AGREED! Amen to that, LH.

I'm a liberal Christain too, as you are no doubt aware by now, and I get so EFFING tired of hearing Christians whine and moan about being "persecuted." I have felt some degree of persecution as a Catholic (admittedly not much) but NEVER as a Christian.*

*With the slightly ironic exception of DU, but rarely even here.

[Judi Lynn]

134. Great post.

People who really think, rather than letting their brains go dead when they become "Christians" are respectful and considerate of others, and wouldn't dream of bearing down on them like this.

[shanti]

85. you and me both!

when i read this story, i was like :wtf:

[LiberalFighter]

118. I would demand the airline to fire the sob

[young_at_heart]

4. Remind me to never fly on American Airlines again

Such a thing is beyond the pale!

[rincons land]

47. just a friendly reminder...

Don't fly American Airlines again

[Nashyra]

48. I t could happen on any carrier

I work for American and so does my husband I can quarantee you the crew was the first to complain

[blondeatlast]

102. I think we'd be very interested on the in-house buzz about this,

if you are willing to share. No pressure, and for God's sake, don't risk your jobs.

I'd love to know how the rest of the crew responded.

[LiberalFighter]

122. First strategy is to demand American Airline fire the pilot immediately

Passengers should request the name of the pilot before boarding and if he is the pilot demand a refund of the ticket. (Most likely it will be difficult with scheduling problems)

Or demand his removal from the flight.

If he remains on the flight and makes additional religious remarks continue filing charges against him.

[Crunchy Frog]

142. Last time I flew

I got political indoctrination from the pilot. I think it was American Airlines too. It really creeped me out.

[0rganism]

146. Hey you commie bastard! Why do you hate America so much?

;-)

[reprehensor]

5. Jesus Christ! (n/t)

[mn9driver]

6. He must have been all pumped up over Jesus; however...

I expect he will get a serious a** chewing over it. In the profession, this is an example of what we call a "Stupid Pilot Trick".

[liberalhistorian]

45. There's nothing wrong with

being "pumped over Jesus", but there's a time and place for sharing your faith, and when you're at the controls of a plane ain't one of them, and especially not the way he did it.

[mn9driver]

75. That's why we call it a "Stupid Pilot Trick" ;-)

[leesa]

140. No he should be fired. Entirely inappropriate. You want to belive that

stuff, fine, but keep it to yourself and don't frighten a captive audience thousands of feet off the ground with something whacky like that!

[mn9driver]

156. Since this is what I do for a living (9-driver, get it?), first I'd like

to say that I agree with you: Yes, this guy is an idiot; stupid as in StupidPilotTrick.
Second, he may well deserve to be fired for such a lapse in judgement.
Third, it ain't gonna happen.

He may get suspended, have to go through a psych evaluation, lose a paycheck or two, but that's it. AA will want to fire him for giving them a rash of bad publicity (and only incidentally for scaring the Cr*p out of his passengers), but he will still be working for them due to the pretty good contract the AA pilots Union has.

Unless, of course, the psych tests show he really is crazy instead of just a dumbshit. Union job protections can be a two-edged sword. It's better than the alternative.

[aquart]

7. Scared the passengers out of their minds.

They thought they were going to Jesus.

I think even the flight attendants freaked. The ground was notified FAST.

[54anickel]

8. Must have just finished reading the "Left Behind" series. n/t

[theorist]

10. How does that series end?

The first was so awful I had no desire to read the rest. Does Jesus ever return? It seemed that the books never stopped coming.

[54anickel]

16. I dunno. Are they even done yet? I made it through the first 3 or 4, I

can't remember, it's been a while. I think they are probably still writing them, was a good money maker.

Yep, just checked on Amazon, # 12 is due out in March. :eyes:
That one has got to be it, from the title, Glorious Appearing: The End of Days

[blondeatlast]

104. Not done by a long shot (I'm in the book buying biz)

It is interesting to note that interest has palpably started to wane, though. The authors have each introduced new series on their own.

As I recall, LaHaye has said that this is the last in the Left Behind series.

[rincons land]

90. To see how it ends read...

the Book of Revelations.

[FlaGranny]

131. Your post caused me to get out

my bible and re-read Revelation. Interesting. I think a lot of people get Revelation wrong. Those 144,000 folks who disappear (leaving their clothing in a puddle, according to the popular series) are NOT Christians, they are 12,000 people from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. Every single one of these 144,000 people not only are jews, but every single one of them is a virgin. And,I can't understand why they would go to God's side naked - especially since a few paragraphs previous to them being swept away, an angel warns against nakedness. The angels wreak their havoc and a dragon's tail knocks 1/3 of the stars out of the sky to planet earth, 1/3 of the trees burn, all the grass burns, blood in the oceans and rivers, etc., etc. - THEN the beasts show up. After 1/3 of the heaven's stars fall to earth, I don't believe there would be any earth left for the beasts to visit. Even more angels wreak more havoc and people still won't accept God. I guess finally some do accept God, because then the walled city of Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven, made out of precious stones and metals, and all the good people get to live there and worship all day and all night in the presence of God, who will come to live with them there. The good people get about 1500 miles of city, where they worship and are protected from the evil ones. All the bad people, it seems, are left to fend for themselves outside this wonderful city - all of this on earth, NOT heaven. There is no mention made of why the walls of the city are necessary, as seemingly, all the bad folks should have been sent to burn in hell. And why should the city be made of precious stones and metals? Will we still covet those things after Armageddon?

It seems that those folks who go knocking on doors and handing pamphlets - Jehovah's Witnesses - are the only ones who are correct about Armageddon, if you believe literally in the Bible. But, most of them seem to advocate verdant green meadows and flowers in their pamphlets, and not jewels and precious metals. So, ??? maybe they don't have it 100% right either. Does anyone?

[alittlelark]

144. Rincon's cruisin the posts tonight! Revelations is an interesting

chapter indeed.........but you never answered my question in any of the other threads...Who did you vote for in 2000?

[Crunchy Frog]

143. Have to milk as much money

from the series as is humanly possible. Wouldn't want to end it while there's still someone left to purchase the next sequel.

Maybe the rapture will happen before they finish the series up. That would piss them off wouldn't it.

[liberalhistorian]

24. LOL!

I was just thinking the same thing, he was a Rayford Steel wannabe. That damn series has done more damage to true Christianity than almost anything else these past several years. Many denominations don't even believe in the Rapture, saying it's a twisted interpretation of Revelation. I was never able to get past the first thirty pages of the first book of that damn series, it was so ridiculous and so disgustingly far-right wingnut-oriented.

[theorist]

27. I got through the whole first book.

The thing that bugged me the most was the unfounded assumption that nonbelievers are so ideologically and spiritually inane that if all the Christians disappeared from the face of the Earth people would just try to put things back together again.

If the rapture did occur, I would certainly be on my knees in a second, and I have been an open atheist since I was 13.

A creative criticism: I think it would have been cooler if all the Christians had suddenly had massive heart attacks instead of just going "poof" and leaving a pile of clothes. No one else needs their bodies in heaven, why do those Christians who happened to live on Earth at the start of the rapture get their bodies? What a stupid book...

[liberalhistorian]

33. That is, indeed, one of the most

annoying assumptions behind the series, the whole attitude towards non-Christians. As a Christian, I can, indeed, say that that kind of attitude probably does a helluva lot of damage to Christianity in terms of the attitudes of non-Christians towards us.

I wonder what the fundie's reaction would be if a non-Christian wrote a book in reverse of the series??????????????

[blondeatlast]

105. They should have studied Matthew more fully.

[aquart]

55. What IS the Rapture? Is it an orgasm

only with God? What?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

65. It's a doctrine taught by some fundamentalist churches

The idea is that God will take all the good Christians into heaven at once before the start of "the great tribulation" that precedes the return of Jesus.

They got this notion by mixing and matching some stray Bible verses.

[salin]

82. am I correct, but is this NOT in the bible... and a concept that 1st

appeared somewhere in the 19th century?

[FlaGranny]

132. You are correct - this is not in the bible.

I just got done re-reading Revelation - see my post above - it is 144,000 virgin jews from the 12 tribes of Israel who are "raptured."
The rest of humanity are left to be tempted, misled by the beast, and have plagues upon them - even Christians.

[leesa]

93. It is also what makes them hot for what BushCo is doing. They

think he was prophesied, as was Saddam, and this is the battle into Jerusalem and onto heaven. Jerusalem has to be in the control of the Israeli tribe so they love the knocking off of Paelstinians by Israel in their attempt to oust them from Jerusalem.
These folks are sure they aren't going to physically die, but they will be wisked away so they could give a shit about what happens to the planet. They conveniently ignore whatever parts of the bible don't fit this fantasy, such as the part that says God will be seriously pissed at those who try to create the Rapture, and the part that says that they will not know the time of the Rapture.

So they are basically trying to one-up God.

[blondeatlast]

107. Very impressive! So correct, too.

There are lots o' wingnuts who really believe the conflict was prophecied, though where the notion comes from is way beyond my comprehension.

Rumor has it that Georgie is one of its followers; draw your own conclusions. I have.

My conclusion: he believes it.

[liberalhistorian]

158. And those of us who believe

in God know that there just ain't no way to do that, to one-up God! Although people have certainly been trying since the beginning of time.

[LiberalFighter]

123. Do they also believe that only 144,000 will be accepted?

[Ilsa]

138. I think this is a Jehovah's Witness belief.

I asked a JW friend why so few (144K), and she couldn't answer. Then I asked if that doesn't mean she is in competition with other Christians for a coveted spot. She just looked at me funny. I wanted to ask her if it would be okay to plan to trip up some JW's to make sure she had a spot, but I backed down because she already looked confused and conflicted.

[LiberalFighter]

141. LOL I wonder what was going thru her mind

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

130. Egg-zaktly! But I digress...

This is a doctrine for people who don't have a functioning mind. But I think I can discern some paths in their fractured thought.

You see, fundies think everybody who doesn't believe their dogma just blocks evidence that favors the dogma (which they believe is abundant). Therefore, refusing to believe the Rapture happened when people just went poof left and right is NOT ACTUALLY WORSE than, say, believing evolution is a sound theory.

Such people don't need any friggin' Rapture -- they live in another reality already. :crazy:

[prolesunited]

9. All I can say is

:wtf:

And, watch, once he gets rightfully reprimanded, all of the fundies will call for a boycott of American Airlines on the grounds of "religious persecution."

[smirkymonkey]

22. But if he get's off easy, those of us who

are just as afraid of xtian fundys as we are of Islamic fundys, will never fly American Airlines again.

[blondeatlast]

108. Well, at least one person is this thread is doing the same!

This is why, people, we wait to see the airline's response...

[amber dog democrat]

11. Wonder how the co pilot felt.

I am a firm believer in boundries. This goes too far.

[oscarmitre]

15. At least he didn't say

"or else".

[Sparky McGruff]

29. "Thank you for flying Christian Airlines"

We know you have a choice when you choose to fly, and we'd like you GODLESS HEATHENS to think about this next time you book a flight.

[blondeatlast]

109. He didn't need to, I doubt. If I'd been on that plane, this angry Xian

would have taken a moment to get her wits about her, then would have made a mild protest.

Why mild? Because I imagine the other passengers were already scared half outta their wits.

[Mari333]

17. If I were a passenger on that plane Id sue sue sue

and sue some more.

[neverforget]

18. "How dare he!" my wife said to me when I read the article to her.

I agree: Fly the fucking plane and keep the proselytizing to yourself.

[rocktivity]

19. "Inappropriate" doesn't begin to cover it

I would have been horrified, and wondered if this guy was a hijacker, a terrorist, or a psychopath preparing us passengers to meet our--his--maker. Fortunately, he was "just" a religious zealot. He shouldn't even be considered for flight time again until he's passed a psych evaluation. As Jon Bon Jovi might say, he gives religious fanatics a bad name!


rocknation

[Sapphocrat]

34. That was my second thought...

If I'd been a passenger and heard that, my blood would have run cold as I wondered if this guy was some sort of self-appointed "savior" preparing to take the whole damned plane on a suicide mission of heavenly glory!

[liberalhistorian]

39. Yeah, like that

Muslim co-pilot that took down that Egyptian Airlines plane a few years ago, asking Allah's forgiveness just before he flew it right into the ocean, despite the attempts of the pilot to stop him.

Of course, only Muslim fanatics are capable of that now, aren't they?:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[NashVegas]

155. I Would Have Laughed My Freaking Head Off

Seriously, I'd have been rolling in that narrow little aisle.

[Nashyra]

49. Believe me he will,have to go trough some

serious counseling, I wonder what the union thinks. I'm going to go check.

[LiberalFighter]

127. It is a violation of the "Violence in the Workplace Act"

Labor unions do and should support it.

It doesn't have to be physical violence actually taking place. It can be perceived. It can be creating a hostile working environment.

[yellowcanine]

20. Your job is to fly the plane, shit for brains

Any communication with passengers is supposed to relate to their safety and the safety of the flight. I think this guy deserves a suspension for unprofessional conduct, at the least.

[Sapphocrat]

21. Now that I've picked my chin up off the floor...

How DARE he?!

I'd like to see the reaction if a Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, or atheist pilot pulled that kind of crap.

Proselytizing jerk needs to be stripped of his wings.

[liberalhistorian]

25. Oh, you know damn well what the reaction

of the fundies would be if he had been any other religion! Freedom of religion, to them, only extends to their own beliefs. Believe me, as a liberal Christian, I've been around enough of that type to know the truth in that.

People, this is NOT NOT NOT NOT the way a true Christian would or should behave, please believe me on that!!! Please don't equate this fundie idiot's actions with ALL Christians.

[Sapphocrat]

28. Don't worry, LH...

The difference between true Christians and fundy nutcases is obvious (or should be).

If it weren't, I'd be forced to hate my own liberal-Christian parents. :)

[SoCalDem]

32. Militant Christians are invigorated by the Bush regime

This kind of thing will soon be the norm, if we are not careful..

Look at the advertising.. Pick up a phone book; Jesus fish abound.. Like a plumber whose business card has a fish on it won't do a shitty job, or screw you on the bill.. It's the "code lingo" so they can recognize each other that is at work here.. People were justifiably outraged when Hitler made the Jews wear a yellow star, yet modern day Christians willingly "identify" themselves and preach to all who will listen.. I am having Jim Jones flashbacks :(

[liberalhistorian]

36. That's a very good point,

and I've very uneasily noticed that myself. Fundies are almost like a cult, although they'd hate the very mention of that word. Of course, they think all other religions, and even many denominations that aren't in lockstep with what they believe, are all cults.

And I don't really consider them true Christians, Shrub sure as hell isn't anywhere near a true Christian. Jesus wouldn't recognize any of them at all.

[Sapphocrat]

42. Oh, Jesus would recognize them all right...

...but as soon as he did, he'd cast their unclean spirits into the nearest swine.

[liberalhistorian]

43. That's for sure!

n/t

[blondeatlast]

126. God would, and had a name for them.

Hypocrites.

[theHandpuppet]

72. Here's another one for ya....

A couple of years ago, after my partner and I had recently moved, we of course had to find new doctors in our adopted community. My unsuspecting partner had made an appt with a local MD who was on insurer's list of participating physicans, but what a surprise was waiting for her!

While in the waiting room she got an increasingly creepy feeling... inexplicable at first, but then she noticed that the room was literally covered with fundie Christian propaganda. Mounds of tracts and magazines, and on the bookshelves, volumes about how homosexuals were going to hell and how queers could be converted to heterosexuality through Christ!

My partner told me that she felt like a deer caught in the headlights, but after a couple of minutes she knew she had to get out of there. She approached the attending nurse (who was also the wife of the doctor) and politely said she would, regrettably, have to leave as she was too uncomfortable to keep her appt. At that point the doctor poked his head out of one of the examining rooms, took one look at her and said, "I understand" in a way that sent a clear message.

Believe me, there's no escaping the evangelicals and they're enough to scare the crap out of ya. My partner said her major beef wasn't the fact that the doc was a RW born-again, it was what she believed to be the totally unprofessional atmosphere of what was supposed to be a PHYSICIAN'S OFFICE.

The American taliban is alive and well and I can only wonder how long it will be before they decide all gays and non-Christians need to be sent to indoctrination camps.

[liberalhistorian]

159. That was, indeed, unbelievably,

incredibly, totally, unprofessional of that doctor, and of any other professional who uses his or her position to indoctrinate and proselytize.

You're a professional, and you want to do that, fine, volunteer at a Christian organization helping those in need (free clinic, etc., etc.). But you don't have the right to shove it down all your client's throats, unless you work for a Christian organization itself.

My boss is an attorney and a Christian, albeit far more conservative than me even though we attend the same church, and he would NEVER EVER EVER do ANYTHING like this, we have all kinds of clients, not just Christian, and they're all treated the same. And he'd be furious at the idea of something like that.

The Christian professionals who impressed me in the past have been those who've volunteered their time and expertise for others, like the doctor who volunteered at the Christian women's clinic I went to for medical care when I was pregnant, who was the nicest, gentlest doctor I've ever been to, he wasn't the least bit judgmental or moralistic and was genuinely concerned. That's who we need more of, not mean-spirited fundie idiots like that doctor or this pilot or hundreds of other examples.

Reminds me of the OB-GYN in Cleveland, near where I live, who refuses to prescribe birth control no matter what, or to prescribe anything to relieve PMS or a lot of other conditions, believing that "God intended women to have to bear their suffering", or some such shit like that.

[blondeatlast]

124. Because they are so "persecuted," SoCal. Didn't get the memo?

I'm Christian, and I depise that effing fish as well as the spin-offs.

I'm sick of being told how "persecuted" I am--because I am far from persecuted (except, occasionally, on DU).

[liberalhistorian]

26. And yet another reason to add to the

2,876,592 reasons why I simply refuse to fly anymore!!! The summer of 2002 was the last time I flew and, until there are some MAJOR MAJOR changes in ALL of the airlines and the FAA, it will be the last time PERIOD.

[chookie]

30. Imagine this scenario:

Imagine if the pilot had said -- I've been looking at all the people running, and I think Dennis Kucinich is the best man to lead America, and I urge you to consider his candidacy and help elect him.

I bet Cheney wouldn't have stood down the air response this time -- and that the plane would have been escorted by fighter planes.

You hear about this sort of thing from time to time, but its usually something like a pharmacist who won't fill a prescription for contraceptives.

A pilot evangelizing to his passengers at 35,000 feet? This is wacky.

Gee -- I thought they screened pilots very carefully for psychological disorders....

This is inappropriate professional behavior. But the wackos among us will think he is some sort of morally courageous hero.

[liberalhistorian]

41. Well, it seems to me

that he may have a martyr complex. A lot of fundies love to pull shit like that, shit they KNOW will very rightfully stir up this kind of reaction, just so they can then point to it and say "look how we're persecuted and put down in this country", and so they can then feel like they're standing up for their beliefs against the unholy heathen and can feel like and be treated as a hero among other fundies. Again, as a liberal Christian, I've seen this type many time before.

[Sapphocrat]

52. Case in point: Roy Moore n/t

[liberalhistorian]

57. Bingo!

Exactly, talk about a martyr complex!:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[Stuckinthebush]

31. Oh, crap....

My first cousin is an airline pilot for American. He is also a big evangelical Christian.

I have to believe that he is smart enough to not do something like that.

I hope....

[LiberalFighter]

128. Depends on whether he figures he can get away with it

[dusty64]

35. Talk about a captive audience.

If people are looking for a sermon they would go to church.

[JanMichael]

37. I'm sure as shit glad I wasn't on that flight. I'd hate to spend the...

...night in jail after I shoved my copy of the airline's magazine up, um, you know what.

Crazy, they're fucking crazy.

Anyone who doesn't think that there's at least a tiny chance of a Religious civil war in this country is kidding themselves. I will not live in a theocrazy, and I'm not leaving, period.

"A Handmaid's Tale" might not be so unlikely after all, eh?

[Shakespeare]

38. for some reason, I keep thinking of that Egypt air pilot....

Another religious zealot at the controls...not a good thing.

[mn9driver]

76. There was no evidence that Egypt Air was caused by

religious zealotry. The November 2001 Atlantic has a good article on this tragedy. An excerpt:

Batouti was married and had five children. Four of them were grown and doing well. His fifth child was a girl, age ten, who was sick with lupus but responding to treatment that he had arranged for her to receive in Los Angeles. Batouti had a nice house in Cairo. He had a vacation house on the beach. He did not drink heavily. He was moderately religious. He had his retirement planned. He had acquired an automobile tire in New Jersey the day before, and was bringing it home in the cargo hold. He had also picked up some free samples of Viagra, to distribute as gifts.

Just about all of the crew members seemed to be pretty average on the religion scale. This one will always be a head-scratcher for me.

[amazona]

162. suicide is always a mystery but

the U.S. gov't stands by their statement that Egyptair 990 was co-pilot suicide. If you have known people who committed suicide, you will have experienced that they paradoxically do continue making plans for the future. It is like they are in two worlds and don't fully realize that when they kill themselves (and others), they will not be around to see the outcome.

[MaineDem]

77. Bingo!

After I picked myself off the floor, that was the first thing I thought of.

[JanMichael]

40. I really pity Liberal Christians, I really do.

You guys have your hands full with these crazy bastards.

This Atheist wishes y'all the best of luck.

[liberalhistorian]

44. Thanks, JM, and yes,

we certainly do have our hands full with these nutball fundie wingnuts. The sad thing is how Shrub's divisiveness is even extending to Christians, I'm not sure I've ever seen this level of polarization and anger among Christians before in the many years I've been one.

We're accused of not being "true" Christians, constantly admonished to "repent and see the error of our ways", etc., etc. And this from people who think nothing of stomping on the most vulnerable and needy citizens and promoting policies that will seriously damage families and children and the poor and elderly and sick and disabled, etc., etc., and who think nothing of enriching themselves at the expense of those less fortunate.

The good thing, though, is that it's caused many liberal Christians to finally get a real backbone and start standing up to these people before it's too late. We will not tolerate them attempting to turn us into a totalitarian theocratic state, or imposing their own beliefs and version of "morality" on everyone else. And I'm afraid you're right about a coming religious war, it's only a matter of time, and I'm frankly surprised it hasn't happened already. But we're closer than I've ever seen it before.

[reprobate]

103. LH, here's a question for you. At least to be considered.

Not being a christian, I have little grounding in the history of christianity, at least the recent history. But one thing occurred to me.

I agree with you that bush has divided every group in the country, ne the world. Particularly the christian groups. Could this be what the concept of the "anti-christ" was meant to be? It seems to me that all the polarization bush is causing could very well lead to the destruction of the church, and isn't that what the anit-christ is supposed to do?

I wonder how much effect on both christianity and the election a whispering campaign accussing * of being the anti-christ would have.

Just a thought.

[blondeatlast]

119. My take on this, as I've considered it quite often lately:

Not quite the "anti-Christ" thing, but there is some wierd stuff going on in *it*s head.

I think:
*It* believes the Iraqi invasion was prophecied (read further into the thread for more on this).
He doesn't have the mental prowess to be the anti-Christ (in which I personally don't believe anyway, but...).
"Anti-Christ" believers who buy the story may truly believe Saddam Hussein and/or ObL are the anti-Christs.
*It* calls for attacking Iraq, regardless of bogus evidence.

Keep following me here (I know a kooky Xian who believes fairly close to this, too--remove my obvious doubt in the scenario, and you have what they believe).

If there had been an immediate threat of WMDs, as *it* believed in his heart of hearts; bingo.

Apocolypse.

Mind you, these types believe that they will be saved from the scenario. Not every Xian believes this--I don't.

A little wacky, but this fits their beliefs nicely.

[blondeatlast]

114. That's true. I no longer "live and let Live" the ones who pimp

my faith, as I think I've made obvious on the boards.

[mike1963]

50. Just sent them a scathing email. It's pretty easy, go to

www.aa.com
click on the "contact AA" button at the top a bit right of center and
follow to a form.
:grr:

[Nashyra]

51. And why would you send AA a "scathing" e-mail

were you on the flight? Why don't you wait and see what they are going to do, from what i've seen on the pilot website his fellow co workers are scathing mad at him. From the route he flew he would be very senior, or maybe he was hired by another carrier and merged seniority. It is just as important to not jump to conclusions, I believe that this will not be brushed aside by any means. I thought most of here were always pushing "personal responsibility". That pilot is personally responsible and should pay the price, not American. I found out that he had just returned from a "missionairy trip" on his vacation. Outrage at the pilot if you want, not the company unless they don't do something about it. I happen to know that something is already starting to being done. I also know who it is but not at liberty to tell.

[salin]

59. Personal behavior

includes having an impact upon the organization one is representing. Heck I first heard that I was a representative of my school, and to behave accordingly, when I was a junior high school athelete. As such, complaints not only from current passengers, but customers and potential future customers seems legitimate in terms of the situation. Why? Because it could be handled quietly with no real comment, and all future passengers could be concerned that they would be in the air and subject to an implied threat (implied - be it the pilot's intentions or not is "get saved now... because you never know when it might be to late... and your lives are in my hands"... while people are held hostage in the sense that they can go nowhere to escape the situation.)

It behooves us as employers to remind our employees that they are our representatives and their actions - even if they handle their general duties (in this case flying a plane) - do have an impact on our business (eg bad customer service = fewer customers = erosion of the bottom line...) In that sense the employers have some responsibility (in terms of customer service.)

I do agree that it is wise to learn the entire story including... did other staff members try to defuse the situation with the passengers? How does the company handle the situation to ensure that it does not happen again? I tend to like to have a whole story before taking action.

[mike1963]

87. I simply said the sonofabitch needs to be fired.

:eyes:

[zizzer]

148. I said he should be fired

but left out the SOB part out.

I figured simple was better.

[jburton]

60. Can I get extra miles?

I'll have to check my next American Airlines statement. Perhaps I can get bonus miles for Rapture-Bound flights.

:crazy:

[Hekate]

71. OK, now you made me laugh

I'd want you to be in the next seat if I had to be on that flight! Was the in-flight movie "From Here to Eternity"?

Hekate

[blondeatlast]

112. Hah!

[DFLer4edu]

62. What the hell?

My first reaction was that would be interesting, in a really wierd sort of way, but than I started thinking why the hell would he ask that? Than it's just scary. I want to know what the hell he was thinking?

P.S. He's a wackjob, but has it been confirmed that he is a fundie?

[Kool Kitty]

63. I don't know if he was a fundie,

but the news (on the radio 1010 WINS, in NYC) has been reporting this as "...the pilot, fresh from a Christian retreat...", so it sounds slightly "fundie" to me. Wildly, madly inappropriate to me. If I was on that plane I would have been terrified. Religious extremists of any stripe are dangerous, in my opinion.

[blondeatlast]

110. Mission, not a retreat. He had just been trying to convert

and proselytize non-Christians, a practice that this angry Xian liberal considers shameful.

[DFLer4edu]

116. That is fundieish

[Solly Mack]

64. Why? Was the pilot intent on suicide?

and encouraging the passengers to get right with his god before he crashed the plane, killing them all? A fundie is a fundie is a fundie...

This man should be fired and then sued for violating civil rights....captive audience and all that.

I'm very angry about this ....

[Dover]

66. Sounds like a HIJACKING!

This is basically what Bush's Christian Right Bozo's have done to the country. A captive audience....being flown against our will into a wall of destruction. But not to worry, God is Bush's co-pilot.

[Gore1FL]

69. My first thought when rweading this

Was:

It would have really been funny if someone would have yelled:

"JESUS CHRIST, just fly the fucking plane"

[ComerPerro]

70. That is just odd

Was he trying to start a fight?

[R Hickey]

79. Glad the Captain wasn't promoting "Allah"

Several years back, I talked to a "Christian" lady on a long flight returning from Europe. She was a few years my senior, in her fifties, but looked older, and her husband, who was still in France, was in the telemarketing business.

The woman had been a coal miner's daughter, and had had all her teeth pulled when she was fifteen. She'd wore dentures since that time and said they fit ok.

We had an insightful, first-hand conversation, passing the hours comparing our views on the world. Her outlook was quite different from mine, (atheist/ex-catholic) so I did a lot of polite listening.

I remember hearing her ramble on about how Jesus's suffering on the cross was so extradordinary, and also about her niece, who was a Christian fundi too, but more radical, and who believed that Catholics were not Christians. The lady told me she was more moderate than her teenage niece, since she believed that Catholics were at least technically Christian.

I didn't tell her that, last time I checked, Catholics believed that non-Catholics are going to hell, nor did I add that since I'd turned atheist, even hell had gone out the window.

[havocmom]

80. anybody else think they woke up in a Robert Heinlein novel?

Or is it a Margret Attwood story? The theocracy is getting outta hand.

Guess my bad habit of threatening fundies one the bus with being tossed out a window if they start in on me wouldn't work at 35,000 feet. I would also guess there were more than a couple of Christians on that jet who were terrified they were in for a 'bumpy ride'.

Time to call American Airlines and inquire just what action they will take against pilots who pull stunts like this. Might also ask them if they realize the biggest threat to airlines in the US is: airlines in the US. They certainly behave like they all want to be bankrupt.

Also, be kind, recognize, and acknowledge airline employees who are good at what they do. Say thanks and let their supervisors know when they go a bit our of their way to be helpful and courtious, especially under stress. Most are wonderful people who work very hard in a very uncertain business.

[mike1963]

88. Their email auto-response says "we are experiencing extremely high

numbers of email, we will get back to you as we are able to catch up..." (paraphrasing)

[RainDog]

135. I got through their customer service contact

Yes, I would have been scared to hear the pilot say that, and then I would have been furious.

This pilot was grossly irresponsible for his passengers sense of safety and actual comfort.

This is the second time in a week that a (male) Tali-born-again in this country has abused his position. Last week an Eckerd pharmacist refused to fill a contraceptive pill for a rape victim.

This is the very reason why everyone better make sure they contact their reps and tell them they better oppose these horrible "faith-based" initiatives Bush is pushing on the American people.

[Minstrel Boy]

83. And they'll feel safer with pilots armed?!?

I might feel safer if they armed the passengers.

[leesa]

89. He had better lose his job IMMEDIATELY.

That is outrageous. It's bad enough these self-righteous Fundies harrass you at home, now you aren't even safe on a plane??

[DemoTex]

92. As a retired airline pilot, I am outraged.

This guy is nuts .. religiously insane. I flew with a few "born-again Christians" in my airline career and, quite frankly, they scared the shit out of me. It really made me nervous to fly a tight approach in blowing snow at Buffalo with someone who had just told me that he was not afraid to die. Fear of death is a healthy thing for an airline pilot and for the 150 passengers that are counting on more than a wing-and-a-prayer for a satisfactory response to an engine failure on takeoff.

American Airlines has a problem child on its hands. He will more than likely be disciplined and then called a martyr by others of his over-the-wall ilk.

What might the next PA announcement from this fundy nut be? How about this:

Christian passengers and heathens, this is your captain speaking. There is a severe thunderstorm eighty nautical miles directly ahead of us. As the Christians know, God put it there. The thunderstorm, with its beautiful lightning and manifold turbulence, is an excellent example of the beauty of God's work. And since the Lord God Almighty put that thunderstorm in our path, we will fly through it. Never mind your seat-belts, the Lord Jesus will take care of all true believers. There is still time to repent. At our current ground speed of 475 knots, we should encounter God's magnificent weather beast in about 10 minutes. Praise Jesus, and thanks for flying American.

[RamboLiberal]

99. Demotex the NY Daily News account is even scarier

<snip>

Fearing the pilot might have some sinister plans for the flight, many frantic passengers tried to reach their families on their cell phones, witnesses told CBS News.

Shortly after takeoff on Friday, the pilot asked people aboard Flight 34 to "raise their hand if they were Christian," according to one passenger, Amanda Nelligan, of Los Angeles, who spoke to CBS.

He then told the passengers that "everyone who doesn't have their hand raised is crazy," Nelligan said.

"He continued to say, 'Well, you have a choice: You can make this trip worthwhile, or you can sit back, read a book and watch the movie," Nelligan said.

Flight attendants contacted ground control about the incident, assuring passengers that they didn't think they were in any real danger.

<snip>

The pilot had apparently just returned from a missionary trip to Costa Rica, the spokesman said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/162499p-142438c.html

[DemoTex]

113. Scary indeed! I hope he was drug and alcohol tested by American.

The FAA, American Airlines, and the Allied Pilot's Association's (American Airlines pilots' union) Professional Standards and Aeromedical divisions need to be on this guy hard. This is totally unacceptable professional behavior that goes beyond bizarre.

[salin]

147. Also scary is the statement:

"It falls along the lines of a personal level of sharing that may not be appropriate for one of our employees to do while on the job," he said earlier.

Given that some passengers, reportedly, were disturbed enough to start calling home... that at least one of the crew, reportedly, contacted ground control - and tried to assuage passengers that there wasn't a threat... It would suggest that the impact of this level personal sharing "that may not be appropriate... on the job" is a tad more serious.

Frightening passengers, while you have their lives in their hands, even if your intention is not to do so... is serious. Seems like a slight understatement by the airline, demonstrating a bit of a lack of understanding on their behalf of the impact of such statements.

I will hold judgement until we learn the followup (what the airline does to prevent this level of fear in the sky in the future) - but that initial statement, unless it is only excerpting and not giving the full statement that perhaps demonstrates more empathy for passengere (?) - does not exactly engender confidence.

[R Hickey]

120. "The FAA is not investigating" the NY Daily news article says...

If Janet Jackson's boob is worth a congressional investigation, then why not Captain Stranglove's peculiar behavior.

We all remember hearing the black box, where that Egyptian pilot yelled "Praise Allah," just before he crashed his airliner. Pilots should be aware that such unorthodox, intercom announcements are as inappropriate as making bomb jokes in airports.

[DemoTex]

121. The FAA will investigate if they receive pressure from the public.

See my post 117

[Minstrel Boy]

137. "inappropriate as making bomb jokes in airports"

Excellent point. I'll certainly recall this story next time I hear of a passenger detained for idly making one.

[LiberalFighter]

129. Could he be charged under the "USA Patriot Act"???

[LynneSin]

106. I hope this pilot is reprimanded for what he did

He was not hired to preach to his passingers (which hav no choice to listen to him - they're on a freaking plane). What he did was totally wrong and somewhat frightening. He should be given a desk job someplace where he does not come in contact with any other folks.

:mad: Christian

[peacetalksforall]

111. If I had been on that flight and the seat belt light had not been on

I would have stood up in my space and said that I would not tolerate being captive on their a/c with someone dictating religion and I would have said it LOUD for the entire a/c to hear.

If the seat belt light had been on, I would have pushed that seat button for an attendant and I would have told her or him that I would not tolerate being captive on their a/c with someone dictating relition and I would have siad it LOUD for the entire a/c to hear.

This is an outrage. That pilot is one step away from crashing the a/c in order to get to heaven faster if he's that delusional.

The administration has nearly killed the airlines and now the fundamentalist crazies are putting another knife in their financial survival.

[gemini62167]

115. Oh My Stars!

Had I been on that flight...I probably would have become quite vocal in my discontent.

However! I think a letter writing campaign to American Airlines of a very angry nature is what would be a wonderful after school project for many!

Let's see if if the media makes this story as big as some of the other drivel it amplifies. Let's see what the reaction (if any) of the average American is.

I think I shall begin crafting my letter now. . . ;)

[DemoTex]

117. Also write the FAA and your Congress-critter.

Demand suspension of the pilot's First Class Medical Certificate pending the results of an FAA administered psychiatric evaluation. Copy the FAA letter to American Airlines and the news media. This guy doesn't need to be flying until his psychiatric state is evaluated and cleared by aeromedical experts.

[Nashyra]

125. I imagine that it created quite a stir in the cabin

there was a full deadheading crew in the cabin, crew members traveling as passengers. There were 10 of them all in uniform. Oh my I can only imagine what they thought. If I can find out more I will post what is appropriate.

[Wonk]

139. kick (there's a dupe)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=353639

[0rganism]

149. This could even piss off the evangelicals

Maybe, just maybe, there are Christians who don't want to spend the entire flight explaining their faith to others?

Ya know, if Hooters can get its own airline started, I'd imagine that TBN could get in the business too. They could have in-air revivals on every flight. Wouldn't that be a trip?

[MagicEye]

150. New World Alliance

OK, I was on an AA flight flying back from Florida to Los
Angeles in early January. When the flight landed and the
attendant came on to say their final thank you and goodbyes,
the last thing she said, and I quote, "And thank you for
flying American Airlines, a proud new member of the New World
Alliance."   

You do the math....

[Cannikin]

151. Again....all you Christians asking what the big deal is........

Imagine if a MUSLIM pilot had come out and asked a show of hands who believed in the Koran, and told them to spend the next four hours preaching it to all of the 'crazy' people who didnt believe. Would that make you nervous? I dont understand where people get off pushing their religion on people.

Remember the Egypt Air crash?

[patcox2]

153. Who are you talking too?

Not one person here has said "big deal" or "so what." I am a christian and I am as outraged and would have been as alarmed if I were there as anyone else.

[Cannikin]

154. Dont get upset. I wasnt referring to you.

[Danieljay]

152. just showed up today on yahoo news (link)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040209/ap_on_re_us/pilot_christianity_6

[Corgigal]

160. America has lost it's mind

If a kid in school writes something stupid like, I hope Ms Smith dies because she screwed me over on my English exam the school has no problem throwing the kid out of school and treating the parents like crap.

However a Captain of a Commerical airlines calls it's passengers crazy and you have 4 hours to discuss religious values no biggie.

We are so off when it comes to risk in this country. My husband and I agreed if we were on the flight we would have asked for the Flight Marshall. We really would have wanted to get off as soon as possible. I would rather be arrested then sit for those 4 hours getting ill.