Sun-kissed SoCal now overpriced, congested

[question everything]

http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,204~21474~1942398,00.html

(snip)

Always alluring, Southern California has turned into a smog-choked, gridlocked, unaffordable place for many of those trying to make a decent life. Roads aren't been built, jobs aren't being created and housing isn't growing fast enough to meet the demand.

An annual report released last week by the Southern California Association of Governments said the six-county region gets low marks in nearly every basic measure of the quality of life.

Economic recession and the state's fiscal crisis have compounded the region's problems, but experts say the report will end up gathering dust on a shelf, and the problems will remain, unless some drastic changes are made.

The decline in the quality of life will continue, they say, unless the leaders of the six counties Los Angeles, San Bernardino, Ventura, Riverside, Orange and Imperial and cities across the sprawling area start to coordinate their efforts solve a long list of problems and get funding from local taxes and state and federal governments.

(snip)

[dawn]

1. It's been like this for a while!

I was born here and while it was different during the 70s and 80s as far as over-crowding, the smog was still horrible in the LA Basin. Now the smog's just moved further south.

And during both recessions, jobs have been VERY hard to find.

Maybe some people will read this and leave. :) We need less people here. Although I do have to admit, I like it that more people are moving to Orange County. When I moved here 10 years ago, it was scary. Now it's not AS Republican. Except for Mission Viejo.

[progressivebydesign]

3. Born in California..

I lived in Southern California, and a bit north on the coast for 40 years.. I was born in L.A. I got to experience the fun of the music scene in the early 80's in West Hollywood, and got to grow up amongst the gorgeous architecture of old Pasadena. I finally had to move on, and out of California. The smog is actually better than it was in the 50's to 70's... believe it or not. It's just more widespread now that people are moving east of Los Angelese in search of houses.

Just last night, as we were driving in our new town, in our new state, I remarked that the streets and freeways here are so smooth. It's so novel to us, after living through the crumbling infrastructure of California.

California has many great things. But.. the state is crumbling beneath those that live there. The first death knell was Proposition 13 that gutted local budgets. It has never recovered. Add to that the unfunded mandates and refusal of the Feds to pay their share of helping the immigrants, and California offers little more than good weather anymore.

There is more to life than being able to wear shorts on Thanksgiving. Oh, and we bought our house in this new place, we paid less for it, and got 2,600 square feet (enough room for our studios), and it's in a town that rivals Sausalito or Monterey.

[masmdu]

16. Please let us in on your secret...

I'd love to know about a place like Monteray or Sausalito that is affordable...care to share the name?

(Feel free to PM me here at DU if you'd rather keep this cat baggged)

Thanks

[Barkley]

4. John Edwards' "Two Americas" will play well in California

Because that's the sum total of what Prop. 13 has done to California.

And the middle class is now starting to feel the pinch.

Furthermore the counter-cyclical effect of State fiscal policy has worsened the situation: Take out $17 billion in 2001, $38 billion in 2003 and another $15 billion this year out of the economy and don't be surprised to see things get worse.

Part of medium-term problem is due to the dot.com bubble bursting, loss of revenue from tourism after 9-11 and the national recession.

The falling dollars helps agricultural, tourism and weapons exports but its not enough to offset the huge losses in State spending.

The housing market is definitely a bubble. Higher interests rates in 2004 or 2005 will bring down prices.

Actually, the traffic is not as bad as it was in 2000; largely due to less people driving because of the slow economy and rising gas prices which are averaging $1.84. (Prices in Pasadena, my home town, have gone up around 20 cents over the last three weeks: $1.73 to $1.93 --Chevron).

[maggrwaggr]

5. traffic has gotten worse in LA in the last few months

and I have no idea why.

But it sure is noticeable. Especially in the morning.

[Wells]

7. The KEY problem is automobiles...

In every metropolis, automobiles are the fundamentally central cause of all problems, be they housing and general costs of living, environmental degradation, widening gap between rich and poor, social ills, crime, etc.

What percentage of individual, family, city, county, state and national budgets go into transportation? And, how much has that percentage risen over the decades? How much time is spent in travel, and how much has that percentage also risen? How have Big Box retail outlets, under the control of 'outside' corporate influence undermined Main Street businesses and local economies? And, what additional costs are associated with this 3rd party management? Why do grocery prices rise after local farms fail, due to competition of low-cost produce, when distant agri-business enters local markets?

The Travel and Transport Industries establish Monopolies and then exploit the market. The costs to structure travel and transport-dependent economies are higher, but these costs are passed onto all business fueror down the economic ladder.

I notice that the article highlights a lack of new road construction. Thus, its author is not to be trusted, because his solution is for more travel, rather than less.

Get a clue: YOUR CAR and YOUR CAR-DEPENDENT LIFESTYLE makes you a slave to corporate interests who will kill you to maintain their control over humanity. 20th Century Oil Wars. Economic Imerialism. Globalization.

[Wells]

35. The Human Farm - Suburbia - Wage-slave workers' quarters with lawn

The cluelessness is stunning. Motorists become robotish. Automobiles are the central cause of all problems; in housing and general costs of living, environmental degradation, widening gap between rich and poor, social ills, crime, Oil Wars, etc.

Bankers and lending corporations are happy to finance suburban subdivision homes because of the guaranteed additional income from auto sales' finance fees; more income than from the home. Yes, those suburban homes cost less, but they add to other costs of living because transportation costs rise. All daily needs can only be met via long-distance driving. Suburbia is a housing compound. A human farm.

The Travel and Transport Industries establish Monopolies and then exploit the market. The costs to structure travel and transport-dependent economies are higher, but these costs are passed onto all business fueror down the economic ladder.

Get a clue: YOUR CAR and YOUR CAR-DEPENDENT LIFESTYLE makes you a slave to corporate interests who orchestrate War to maintain their control over humanity. 20th Century Oil Wars. Economic Imerialism.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. I agree, Wells

After ten years of car-free living in Portland, I have moved to Minneapolis, where I am forced to be "car lite," due to the lack of a decent bus system and the fact that all my rellies live in the far suburbs.

Moving here has really made me see how cars shape and distort the landscape. If there's anything uglier than a big box store parking lot, it's a big box store parkiong lot full of slush and piles of dirty snow.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

48. I was in So Cal last week.

I stayed in Arcadia and attended a class for my job in Monrovia. I was struck by the fact that even though there were plenty of sidewalks almost no one walked anywhere. Though there was public transit it seemed only the poor, took it.

I tought it was a stark contrast to where I live in the northwest. I live in Everett, which is north of Seattle. In spite of shittier weather it seems more people walk and take alternative forms of transportation.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maggrwaggr]

20. nice. Are you volunteering for the job?

How would you go about doing this?

Don't you realize that the California agriculture businesses, which really run the state, don't WANT that? They have always encouraged illegal immigration because that's who they need for labor.

So you can have your strawberries at 99 cents a pound at your local Krogers.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bridget Burke]

25. Our Boarders do need help!

There just aren't enough good Boarding Houses any more.

No, that's not what the military's for--you're talking about the Border Patrol. Throw a few employers in jail for hiring illegals & you might see a difference. However, the economy of most border states depends on the work of those people. (The workers, not the owners.)

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trogdor]

28. Did anyone see Curb Your Enthusiasm last night?

Larry David picks up this huge, ridiculous-looking hooker so he can drive in the carpool lane and beat the traffic to Dodger Stadium. The REALLY funny part is, in exchange for a discount, she wants to see the game too, and she doesn't want Larry to deny that he's with her. Hilarious!

[Must_B_Free]

50. that was the best one ever!

I thought we were "ceaux de la"?

[K8-EEE]

41. The MTA Strike Was Murder. I Love Our Subway!

I'm a Red Line Girl -- Universal City to Hollywood (12 minutes zooming under all the stalled cars!) Can't wait to try out the new Gold Line to Pasadena.

That Moscow subway bombing thing really gave me the creeps, I gotta admit!

[Wells]

49. The Aaah Haaaah Moment !!

I was staying in Santa Monica in December. Took the bus to the Green Line, transferred to the Blue Line, then the Red Line, then the Gold Line, with a little folding bike so I could peddle around Coronado Boulevard. Not a bad ride.

Mass transit systems, especially rail-based, have long been opposed by powerful automobile-related corporate interests who have taken covert steps to undermine them. It's common knowledge that General Motors conspired with Standard Oil, Firestone and other related corporations to purchase and dismantle US streetcar companies throughout the USA; and were convicted of those charges after WWII. Since they were given a mere slap on the wrist, how hard is it to believe that the same interests continue to undermine mass transit for the competition it represents?

This is a difficult message. How to deter Terrorist attacks on subways?

I know!

Always blame world troubles on Cars! AND Oil!

Aah Haaaah!!!

[Barkley]

6. I've seen worse traffic conditions in L.A.

My drives around town have been shorter during non-rush hour(s) times.

[xxqqqzme]

13. south OC is a rabid, racist

RW haven that's 4 sure. It gets real scary down there. I know a woman who teaches in a HS down there and the principal wanted her 2 report students who did not say the pledge of allegiance. She told him NO!

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maggrwaggr]

21. What a surprise!

by your posts, that's becoming obvious.

Enjoy your stay at DU! It won't last long!

[dawn]

22. I actually like Orange County, too, but for different reasons.

I like the beaches. That's the main reason. And the traffic is more tolerable.

I think the Mission Viejo area is probably the worst part of OC as far as racist tendencies/rapid RW-ness. I am in Irvine, and it's not a picnic, but it's definitely better than it was 10 years ago.

I moved here from the L.A. area after the Northridge quake. I lived with my parents for a bit and went back to school. I moved around a bit, and came back. Then I met my husband, and stayed.

I've thought about moving back up to the LA area, but it's just too congested. I can't deal with the traffic and the over-crowding. But it's much more my speed as far as nightlife, culture, and politics.

I am trying to work to get more Democrats elected in OC. This is my home, too! :)

[K8-EEE]

39. I Love L.A.

I've lived here all my life. I love other places too but just to visit.

I loved the Travis concert last week cuz the main guy (they are a UK band) said: all over the country people tell me when I say I'm going to L.A. how phony the people are and all that; but I find them all lovely and I notice that THEY don't go around complaining about anywhere else!

[Must_B_Free]

2. Just flew there for a job interview on Friday

It reminded me of Albuquerque in its Grid like layout.

Starting homes - $400,000 for something you don't even want. $600,000 for something you would actually like. In Charlotte, NC the same structures would be more like $150,000 and $250,000.

I would like to take the job, yet it seems implausible witht those prices. I am looking to less "flashy" places with more value.

Even with an extra $10,000 salary in So Cal, with housing %100 - %200 inflated, it still seems like a bad deal.

How much can the housing market bear, anyway? There has to be a cap at some point and then a awful lot of people are going to be stuck with huge investments in overvalued homes.

[spinbaby]

9. I think housing will crash

It's way overpriced in parts of CA, both in comparison with housing in other parts of the country and in relation to what people are earning. And once it starts to slip, it'll slip badly.

[CivilRightsNow]

29. Housing in some areas should begin crashing in 2-3 years

Ie, places in the Bay area. However, I personally think that prices will do nothing but increase in the valley and so cal as a result. So Cal aint getting any cheaper any time soon.

For the poster above that is thinking of taking a job and making a cross country move to so cal, my recommendation is No! We just moved out of California due to the lack of decent paying jobs. When housing prices are 600k to get a decent home, 50 K dont cut it like it does in many other places. We are currently in Texas after looking in Cali for almost two years. I had a job within a month of moving to Texas that paid more then my last job in Cali. I can also buy a brand spanking new house for 200K.

In 10-15 years, we will look at going back.. but cali is in for a very bumpy ride.

[shanti]

33. you can buy a brand spanking new house

for 200K in cali....but it won't be in socal! they are available for that price in norcal tho.

[K8-EEE]

43. I Wouldn't Buy Now Unless I Was Rich...It's A Cyclical Market

We bought in 1989 for $220,000, a TINY house -- right afterwards the market declined so much, it took maybe five years to even have ANY equity.

Right now though, our house payments are what a 1 br apt would be. So if you hang in, with SoCA real estate it's hard to go wrong, unless you're in a real upscale market.

[Champion Jack]

8. Heh, my house is on the market here in beeee-utiful socal

and I can't wait to get out.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

15. Ours is going on the market this summer

We're in a 'hot spot' in the Mojave Desert where Angelenos are moving in droves to get away from the crush, so it's probably the best time to sell before the December crash.

The question is: where to go? If * wins, Mexico is starting to look better and better.

[maveric]

10. The average price of a single family 3bd home is $400,000.00 in San Diego.

How many blue collar americans can afford monthly payments of $2700.00 a month? Not many. Especially when the wages down here are some of the lowest in the state (sunshine bucks as they are referred to).
Smog isnt that bad in SD but traffic is getting worse and street repair in neighborhoods other than La Jolla is almost non existent.
Rents are also some the highest in CA. Landlords can pretty much do what they want in this "No cause eviction" county.
I love it here but fear that I am being priced out of the housing market and am considering moving back to my mom's house in Lawrence MA.
San Diego is a robber baron district.

[question everything]

17. San Diego was the least affordable area in CA

in December, with only 15% can afford a median priced home http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20040205-1135-sdhousing.html

[K8-EEE]

45. Exactly...The Grocery Workers Who Are Striking

SERIOUSLY cannot afford to pay health care and take paycuts in SoCA -- the average L.A. grocery worker makes $25,000 and that might sound great in some places but I feel bad for anybody having to raise a family on that -- an average 2 br apt would by $1350, a GHETTO 2 br is $950!

[The Zanti Regent]

11. Los Angeles rents are Insane

I make $55,000 a year, and my rent is $1,485 for a single unfurnished apartment and I pay ALL utilities. Had to kiss the car goodbye...

[dawn]

23. I know. They are out of control.

My husband and I were going to move to the Westside late last year (I was born in the LA area and live in OC now), but it was unaffordable. Even in Venice.

The rents for an apartment comparable to the one we have now are about twice as much. And my salary level wouldn't change! :(

[Snow]

31. We did a month-to-month, 2 bedroom townhouse before buying

our house in 2002 spring, and the rent was 1100, heat & water included. We still keep in touch with people there, and the rent's still the same. We bought our 1900 sq ft 3-bedroom 2-bath house about a mile away, 370k, lot is 75 wide by 150 deep, fruit trees & a view of the mountains. Nice mixed neighborhood, used to be worse according to our long-term neighbors, but apparently rental housing is getting bought up by owners, and houses repaired. Natch this means prices are rising, but one thing we all need to remember is that LA is a very, very, very big place and there's a lot of variety of accomodations and prices out there. By the way, our community is Altadena, west of Lake St.

[cass71898]

36. We just bought in Altadena too...

In July 2002, we lived in the community for 3 years before buying and got a complete fixer, very cheap. I think (hope) we'll survive any bubbles bursting.
The roads are getting worse here, and the only time CalTrans seems to work on them is during rush hour.

[Snow]

37. Welcome to DU, and to Altadena. Have you discovered all the

wonderful hiking trails yet? Eaton Canyon, Arroyo Seco, Millard Canyon. We walked most of the way up Echo Mountain last Saturday morning, and the trail starts at the top of Lake St.

[K8-EEE]

42. What Is That Great Coffee Shop In AltaDena -- With The Music??

I remember Chris Hillman (Byrds) playing there recently! FOR FREE!

[Snow]

46. Ooooh, yeah - it's on Lake, a little up from New York

and down from the middle school.....
here ya go:
http://www.coffeegallery.com/home.html

[K8-EEE]

44. Altadena Is A Cool Neighborhood! And Pasadena Too.

I think the $1400 single must be on the West Side? That's pricey even for here.

[LibDemAlways]

12. If they figured the rising cost of housing into the inflation rate

it would be off the charts. Two years ago I had my modest 3 bedroom 2 bath tract house in a So. Cal. suburb on the market for $350K. Had offers in the low $340 range but circumstances changed and I stayed put. Last month an identical house across the street quickly sold for the full asking price of $599K. Believe me these homes are not worth that kind of money, and when interest rates creep up, a lot of recent buyers are going to be left holding the bag. The newcomers across the street are from Illinois and I'll bet their case of sticker shock was severe.

[xxqqqzme]

14. a house in my tract just sold

4 $525,000 same floor plan as mine - I'm thinking about selling and moving 2 New Mexico, Bcuz the market is going 2 crash soon.

[slackmaster]

27. I feel sorry for people who live here, work, and don't own real estate

Breaking into the housing market is harder than ever. I managed to break through in 1994 while I was married, and kept the house after the divorce. Once you're in you're in for life unless you bought in a bubble.

The decline in the quality of our schools seems to me the most tragic part of our situation here. I got a good education in the '60s and '70s through my Bachelor's degree. Things went downhill so fast it was obviously messed up when I had a stepchild in school in the '90s.

I don't completely buy the Proposition 13 excuse for shools going downhill. Every day I see city-funded construction projects that seem like a waste of money, not to mention San Diego's squandering of tens of millions of dollars subsidizing a losing professional football team for years and years.

[AffirmativeReaction]

30. They're just now figuring this out?

I thought it was common knowledge

[shanti]

32. shoot!

i knew this FACT 20 years ago....when i LEFT socal after being born and raised there. happy norcal dweller now:-)

[boobooday]

34. Really Sad

My husband is a Santa Barbara native, and we were driven out by the likes of Oprah and others who will pay a cool million for a two bedroom shack on a postage stamp sized lot.

Eventually there are going to be a lot of rich people sitting around looking for a waitress. If she exists, she will be stuck in traffic, commuting from Fresno.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

Jeanette

[chasqui]

40. IS THIS LBN?

SoCal has been a pit for quite some time now. I don't quite think that this is LBN. Sounds more like Editorial/Commentary to me.

[question everything]

47. SCAG just released its report and all the newspapers reported

The one from LAT http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-scag6feb06,1,7058235.story

In the six-county region surrounding Los Angeles, traffic is the worst in the nation, jobs are tough to come by, a home costs a fortune, the public schools are largely a shambles and the air, after a short spell of getting cleaner, is smogging up again.

(snip)

Drawn mostly from data SCAG compiled in 2002, the report card describes an L.A. area that is rapidly adding poorly schooled residents and providing them with jobs that pay badly, a region of ever-increasing rents, perpetually clogged freeways and little elbow room. Roughly one of every 17 people in the United States lives here.

(snip)

Traffic in the six-county region remained the nation's worst, with people spending an average of 50 hours a year stuck in traffic. What's more, the use of mass transit stayed low, carpooling declined and highway fatalities were higher than the national urban average.

(snip)

Housing received a D-plus, largely because the costs of buying and renting continue to rise, the report said. The number of building permits soared to the highest level since 1990, but housing affordability fell compared with levels in the rest of the nation, a trend that began in 1997. Only a third of the region's residents could afford median-priced houses in 2002. Elsewhere, half the residents could afford them.

(snip)

Incomes fell along with employment in a region that lost 22,000 jobs in 2002, according to the report. One sliver of good news: With the influx of people, the number working in retail has increased. But that was said to underscore more trouble: Retail jobs tend to pay less than work in manufacturing and construction.

[SemperEadem]

51. What is so sick about some of those development companies

is that either they build really crappy housing too close together or they end up going out of business half way through the development and then turning around and selling the land to a movie studio to blow it all up in the next Lethal Weapon 381471093871938709835.

I don't get where all of these moneyed people are who are going to buy these $600,000 homes when everyone seems to be struggling in this recession Arnold hasn't fixed yet.