G.M. and Chrysler Explore Merger

[IndianaGreen]

Source: NY Times

G.M. and Chrysler Explore Merger

DETROIT — General Motors is in preliminary talks about a possible merger with Chrysler, a deal that could drastically remake the landscape of the auto industry by reducing the Big Three of Detroit automakers to the Big Two.

The talks between G.M. and Cerberus Capital Management, the private equity firm that owns Chrysler, began more than a month ago, and the negotiations are not certain to produce a deal. Two people close to the process said the chances of a merger were “50-50” as of Friday and would most likely still take weeks to work out.

A merger would be a historic event, with two of the most iconic names in American industry coming together to survive in an increasingly difficult environment. Both have roots dating back decades in Detroit and, with Ford, long dominated the auto industry — until Japanese and other foreign car makers began making inroads into the American market.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/11/business/11auto.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

[DainBramaged]

1. The big one

A huge problem would be franchise overlap. Some would fall.

[IndianaGreen]

4. What about the pensions?

Lots of concern from my friends that retired from GM.

[DainBramaged]

5. I have a feeling they are safe, this has to do with the future

and combining brands under the GM umbrella. Jobs would be lost, production merged, but it could be very beneficial

[IndianaGreen]

9. GM workers concerned about future

Here is the story that ran today on local TV:

GM workers concerned about future

Indianapolis - What a difference a day makes. On Thursday, Honda celebrated the first car rolling off its mass production line in Greensburg. Friday, employees at General Motors plants nationwide are wondering what kind of future that automaker still has.

Wall Street's unpredictability is having a profound effect on American workers. General Motors' shares have lost nearly half of their value this week, plunging to their lowest level in more than 58 years.

The market's tumultuous ride is of particular interest to employees in the Indianapolis Metals and Fabrication Plant.

"People are afraid. People are worried," said James Kendall, who has worked at the plant for 17 years and currently serves as President of UAW Local 23.

"My retirement is very much tied to what is going on today. I'm concerned absolutely just like everyone else. Wall Street is scary. These are bad times. Hopefully we don't go into a depression and get worse but right now it looks terrible," he said.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=9160114

[Divernan]

53. Now we know why McCain pulled out of Michigan.

Talks started over a month ago? Well, now we know why McCain pulled out of Michigan. There will be the traditional obscene golden parachutes handed out to the very top levels of management in Grosse Point, but the rest of the GOP corporate managers/administrators will be lining up for unemployment benefits, along with the rank and file , and both groups will be extremely motivated to vote for Democrats. And both groups will also realize quite clearly what kind of deals would be cut with a McCain administration to gut their pension plans and health care benefits, should McCain win the election (thankfully, an increasingly remote possibility).

To the poster who counsels not to worry about pensions, what reality are you inhabiting!? Pensions have been gutted left and right for years, and any mega corporation resulting from a merger of these two auto manufacturers would have their lobbyists drafting their own legislation and dropping it off at the McCain White House and throughout the House and Senate, accompanied by the traditional fat campaign donations, posh vacation/hunting/deepsea fishing trips and overseas junkets.

Indiana Green, I hope that this development, along with all the other developments of this financial tsunami, shakes up Hoosiers enough to turn your red state a deep, deep blue!

How's that moonlight on the Wabash?

On edit: I think the big three are failing not so much because of top heavy management/administration, but because of disastrous managerial decisions when it came to the number of product lines to offer (way too many) and flat out stupid decisions to stick with the big gas guzzlers instead of developing and promoting Prius type cars a lot sooner.

[last1standing]

10. I think there's been too much merging already.

It's led to a lack of domestic competition, which in turn has promoted a lack of innovation and quality. GM, Chrysler and Ford had every advantage in the market but let Honda and Toyota eat them alive because they were basically moribund because of their size and massive management layer. Having spent some time recently working on their global laptop image I can attest to the fact that at least some of that remains.

[sarcasmo]

12. Exactly, my father has mentioned this merger and he is worried about only one thing.

His Pension.

[IndianaGreen]

13. We only have about 9.000 GM workers left in Indiana

and over 40,000 pensioners, many of which took the buyout when the plants closed. There is a lot of concern and worries, not just about the pensions but the health insurance. A couple of my friends that are with USW are losing their health insurance next year in a concession to keep their jobs. Workers are getting the shaft while the bankers are getting the cash.

[sarcasmo]

18. Where are you Kokomo? My Dad was Saginaw and a few years in Defiance, OH.

[IndianaGreen]

19. I am in Indianapolis

Kokomo has been decimated! :-(

My friends used to work for Allison Transmission and they retired when GM sold it.

My friends with USW work for someone else not connected to auto industry.

[sarcasmo]

22. Used to deliver to Kokomo back in the 90's when things were good, oh wait who was the

President? I expedited a whole lot of auto freight from 94 to 98.

[IndianaGreen]

25. The Clinton years seem so far away today!

There has been so much pain and suffering during the past 8 years that I feel like those Romans that grieved the end of the Republic.

[sarcasmo]

26. Diesel was 99 cents, and there was no such thing as a fuel surcharge.

Ah, the Clinton years.

[ReadTomPaine]

23. A quick scan seems to indicate this idea originated with Cerberus..

they mention Renault/Nissan as another suitor - Cerberus seems to be shopping Chrysler around.

On edit - It looks like Cerberus is retaining an "unspecified equity stake" - check out post #34 or autoblog.com

[Swede]

2. Strange days indeed.

What's next.

[last1standing]

3. No one here mentions "the Big Three" anymore.

Not since Chrysler was bought by Daimler.

Anyway, I'm not sure what benefit there is in two failing companies sharing their acquired debt unless GM is looking to go the route of Chrysler and become a private equity concern. :shrug:

[DainBramaged]

6. DU is very anti-Detroit

[last1standing]

7. Why do you say that?

I've never found DU to be anti-Detroit or anyplace else. Some, like myself, have grave reservations regarding the anti-CAFE standards and other policies the major auto companies promote, but other than that I think it's very pro-Detroit.

[DainBramaged]

14. Then you don't pay attention when any GM or Ford thread goes up

And I tap dance on the verge of tombstoning defending the UAW and GM

[last1standing]

21. Of course I pay attention. Like any other Detroiter, my life is tied up with GM and Ford.

Sure, a few posters will throw out garbage but that's an incredibly small number of DUers. And I rarely see anyone attack unions here and those who do are usually tombstoned quickly.

Remember, it's easy to say that GM should go under if you live in Nevada. But tell those Nevadans that you think all the casinos (who's owners are generally very republican) should be shut down and listen to them squeal. In other words, all areas have their major businesses that are vital to those who live there but not so many can understand that about other locations.

[Psephos]

51. A few posters?

You're crazy.

Not only is there little support here (I didn't say none) for UAW products, but as Dain said above, the nastiest "progressives" come out of the woodwork to piss on anyone who does support them. He's not exaggerating when he says he dances on tombstones trying to stick up for domestic cars.

Of course, the same people who haven't stepped foot in a US showroom since Carter was president, or spent a single of their transportation dollars on a UAW product in twenty years, get purple in the face about Evil Corporations(TM) offshoring manufacturing jobs.

Yet they somehow never make the connection.

[DainBramaged]

56. I virtually stand alone defending Detroit against the hordes here

and this thread is proof of that. It is also ignore fodder for me. I click the red x when they start bashing MY Union and livelihood because by then, we have nothing left in common. They are phonies.


Thanks once again

[reclinerhead]

64. Your efforts are appreciated

Thanks for standing up for the employees!

The posts you describe make me angry.. I usually type out a reply, but cancel it. Just a newb, after all.

I live in CA now, but my mother worked for GM for 30 years and retired two months ago (Lansing). My brother is sticking it out with American Axle for now (Three Rivers). I spent my childhood right down the road from the old hydromatic plant that American Axle currently occupies.

So yeah, I feel a connection to that area still.

[AndyTiedye]

49. My Only Criticism of the UAW is of Your Failure to Unionize the Other Automakers

And even that isn't really a criticism so much as a question.

Your sig line includes:

Japanese cars are NOT American cars, even if they are made here!!!

Is that because most of them are made in non-union factories? According to the UAW website,
the Toyota Corolla and Tacoma are UAW-made. Do you feel the same way about those vehicles?

Why hasn't the UAW unionized the plants that make other "Japanese" cars here?

[DainBramaged]

57. You have no clue how that works, none.

Have you ever worked in an auto factory or the Japanese? I have, so when you understand the tactics they use to keep the Union out, then you can spew, otherwise, get an education.

[AndyTiedye]

67. You Are Right, I Don't. That is Why I Am Asking How It Works

I have asked this question before.

UAW seems to have been successful at unionizing the Toyota Corolla and Tacoma plants,
so it is not impossible to unionize a Japanese-owned auto plant.
Why are those unionized and the others not?

Have you ever worked in an auto factory or the Japanese? I have

That is why I am asking you.

[DainBramaged]

68. Click on the UAW link in my posts, and you will learn much

[AndyTiedye]

72. Already went to www.uaw.org

I don't see anything there regarding barriers to unionizing auto plants that are currently non-union. It may be there somewhere, but it is eluding me.

I saw a call for a letter-writing campaign to Toyota regarding their use of part-time workers, but that seems a bit tangential to the organizing issue.
I could not determine from the article if this was occurring at a union or non-union plant.

The UAW is losing the PR war with GM.
GM has been telling the world that all of their troubles are a result of the pay and benefits that the UAW negotiated with them over the years.
The UAW needs to turn that around into an argument to bring the others up, not knock the union workers down.
The UAW has not been successful in making that argument and getting it out so far.
You are having to do it in spite of the RW media, just like every other progressive cause.

Even here on DU, a medium with no corporate mediation, you are not making the best use of the opportunity provided.
You are expressing a lot of bitterness but not giving us much to work with.

The UAW strongly supports Obama, and all of us appreciate that. I am sure that has been a big help in Michigan, particularly.
It is likely that the UAW will be in a good position to ask for something in return assuming we win.
What would that be?

[AndyTiedye]

80. Criticism of GM (it's Management) May be Related To

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

11. That's what I thought when a NON-U.S Corp. Daimler bought Chrysler

and then chewed it up and spit it out and then sold it again to investors(?).

[UpInArms]

8. terrific! now we'll have POS international

will it be "nogo" or "gono"

[DainBramaged]

16. A perfect example of the hatred DU shows for Detroit

[UpInArms]

24. I have no hatred for Detroit

I have a complete anger at the lack of engineering and foresight to join in with realistic CAFE standards and making cars that work for people

I've watched the mileage go from 30-35 in the 70s to crap ever since

and it pisses me off

I drive crap old cars because for $30,000 I expect something that gets more than 25 on the highway, unless it is really special and wipes my ass as I open the door and sit in it so that I feel so comforted that I can't afford to drive to the grocery store 30 miles away

[llmart]

66. As someone whose husband is/was an engineer for Chrysler....

(he was laid off two weeks ago), it is not the engineers who are to blame. It's the managers who are continually telling them that cost cutting is their job, not engineering. Many engineers would love to increase gas mileage and use their knowledge to improve the vehicles, but they have no say in it whatsoever. My husband continually complained about how he would argue with management about the use of cheaper materials that wouldn't stand up to rigorous testing, but management doesn't care about quality. Their bonuses are based on cost cutting.

Engineers lost their jobs too, not just UAW workers. These engineers weren't paid overtime though they were heaped with hours and hours of it due to cutbacks in staff.

[LeftyMom]

15. I own a GM car (a Saturn.) I would consider buying another. I wouldn't take a Chrysler for free.

I want a reliable vehicle. Chrysler makes some absolutely awful cars in terms of reliability- the last scores I saw had them in the same range as those cheap-assed little underpowered deathtrap shitboxes from Korea.

I don't want anything tainted by their poor quality and abysmal reputation. If this deal goes through, my next car will be an import.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Reports: GM, Chrysler hold merger discussions (MSNBC)

Reports: GM, Chrysler hold merger discussions

BREAKING NEWS
msnbc.com staff and news service reports
updated 1 minute ago

General Motors has held discussions about acquiring Chrysler, The New York Times and Wall Street Journal reported late Friday.

The talks between GM and Cerberus Capital Management, which owns Chrysler, began more than a month ago, the Times reported on its Web site.

The Journal reported that the talks were "rendered inactive" because of the upheaval in financial markets but that people familiar with the developments said the talks could be revived quickly if markets stabilize.

Two people close to the talks told the Times the chances of a merger were “50-50.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27125864/

[ReadTomPaine]

20. Woah.

This is quite a stunner for me.

[sarcasmo]

27. The question is Tom, what happens to GM? Will GM's product be brought down by Chrysler?

I have been hearing a Saturn sell off coming, that's what the wife and I drive.

[ReadTomPaine]

30. I've always felt that Saturn should have retained the hybrid/electric....

identity GM flirted with giving it back when the EV1 was introduced. You have to understand however that the knives have been out for Saturn among the other divisions at GM since their inception. It's always been a somewhat hostile environment for them, with many claiming the money that went toward starting a new division should have been spent instead revitalizing the other divisions.

Regarding Chrysler - they aren't my favorite domestic automaker but they bring a lot to the table. I want to see them stick around, and shedding Cerberus isn't a bad thing from that standpoint (although it's more the case of Cerberus shedding them, it seems.)

[liberal N proud]

28. Next thing you know cats will be sleeping with dogs

[Dover]

29. No discussion of ANTI-Trust violations? More corporate consolidation

requireds OVERSIGHT. How many of these companies are already too large for a most national governments to exert regulations? The governments are all bought out.

[Psephos]

50. Their competition is global, not domestic. Do you give a damn about the jobs at stake?

They're on the verge of bankruptcy. GM's market capitalization as of today is a whopping $2.9 billion. (Google's is a hundred billion.)

Toyota or, more likely, a Chinese automaker, will buy the assets for a dime on the dollar. Tell me how that is going to lead to more competition and more jobs.

Hint: it ain't.

[flvegan]

31. The Viper and the 'Vette in the same house?

I've never owned a Dodge/Chrysler and I doubt I ever would. I have owned a number of GM machines, most of which I really did like.

So long as GM didn't get dragged down by the Chrysler marque, then I'd be thrilled IF it meant American jobs and sales of American cars.

[susanna]

33. Viper would go bye-bye or become a specialty vehicle...

...that's my guess. GM will not give up the 'Vette. Ever. If they did, that might be interpreted as one of the signs of the apocalypse. ;-)

[ReadTomPaine]

35. Chrysler has been looking for someone to buy the Viper brand...

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/27/report-chrysler-may-sell-the-dodge-viper-rather-than-kill-it/

REPORT: Chrysler may sell Dodge Viper rather than kill it

The Dodge Viper has been Chrysler's halo car since it was introduced back in 1992, but times are tough. Faced with the fact that it might not be able to continue making the brutish sports car, the Auburn Hills-based automaker is reportedly considering doing something that's never been done before by a domestic automaker (as for as we know): selling the Viper's future to a third party. Automotive News quotes Chrysler CEO Bob Nardelli saying, "We have been approached by third parties who are interested in exploring future possibilities for Viper." Nardelli claims that whatever happens, his company will work to make sure the best interests of Viper fanboys are served and that Chrysler would continue to offer "operational and financial" support for the car if a transaction takes place. We're honestly a little stunned that Chrysler would consider such a drastic action, though if it means the Viper won't be sacrificed at the altar of economic woes, we're all for it. On the other hand, how does one separate Dodge from the Viper? Can you imagine Ford selling the Mustang to ROUSH or GM selling the Corvette to Lingenfelter? Chrysler has not identified any of the Viper's suitors, so rather than a familiar tuning house, it could also be a conglomerate of investors or another automaker. Is a Viper sold by another brand still a Viper?

[susanna]

38. Hi again RTP; I'm enjoying your info here.

I left the auto industry in early July, so haven't been keeping up - burnt out I guess. As this story came out around end of August, I'm speculating that any merger talks started before then. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

OK, I'll have to add Autoblog back into my everyday reading just to keep up. :-)

[ReadTomPaine]

39. I love a good automotive story - happy to share...

Been an enthusiast for decades so it's second nature - harder to burn out when you don't punch a clock over the subject :)

I'd be willing to bet you're right regarding the talks and the timing of this statement about the Viper. It would be nice to see it stick around, Caterham style. It's got that rustic charm that will age well.

[susanna]

42. The Viper is an utterly gorgeous vehicle. They will always turn heads.

I have definitely appreciated some of the design coming out of Chrysler over the last decade, maybe a little more. Some real game-changing stuff. I like a good design story and Chrysler was really making inroads there.

I really haven't burnt out completely; notice I'm right on it when an automotive thread opens up. It gets in your blood; it's hard to walk away. I did force myself to let it go for a while after leaving, though, so I could get focused on what my next steps would be. I'm currently back in school for an unrelated industry, but I never forget my friends in auto. I was there twenty years, so I suppose it is understandable. :-)

[CRF450]

52. The thing about the Viper, is that its body has never changed in.... FOREVER.

Its looked the same ever since it came out, what gives?? The Corvette is a much better car BTW.

[DainBramaged]

60. I will die working in the industry

actually, I had a heart attack while at work last year, so that could very well be true

:hug:

[susanna]

75. I thought I would, too.

Just didn't work out that way with a pink slip and all. I left, but still - a part of my heart will always be there. It's a crazy, exhilarating business. Hard to ever leave it truly behind, you know?

[onager]

58. Never been done before? Help, old motorheads!

Didn't Studebaker sell the Avanti nameplate to a third party back in the Sixties, when Studebaker finally went under?

I know Avantis were made fitfully for about the next 30 years, with the tooling bouncing from one company to another.

Damn shame. The original Avanti was way ahead of its time and, in the hands of a more solvent company, should have given the Vette some serious competition. Its fiberglass body had truly timeless styling. A very clean design that looked like it was speeding even when it was parked.

And a far cry from some of the Studebaker-Packard eyesores of the Fifties, after their ill-advised merger.

In fact, it's a damn shame the small independent American carmakers didn't merge in the early Fifties, as they talked about doing. They could have created a company that ran the gamut from small, economical cars (Rambler) to mid-level family sedans (Studebaker, Nash), all the way up to the luxury make, Packard.

[DainBramaged]

61. Yup, and they survived a long time with Chevy drivetrains in them

http://www.aoai.org/2005avanti.html
http://www.aoai.org/index.php

[susanna]

32. I'm having a flashback.

Fourteen years ago, in a conference room at a subsidiary of Ford, a manager told all of us in the room that within the next 15 - 20 years, there would be "no Big Three." They would have been bought up or merged. It was inevitable, we were told.

In retrospect, he was the smartest person I ever worked for within that particular industry. Fair disclosure: I was downsized a few months ago from one of the Big Three, and have no regrets. I enjoyed my time working in that business. It's a fascinating industry, and one that taught me a great deal.

I'm not surprised by the possibility of this merger, actually, and my bet is that Cerberus has the most to gain (i.e., by letting someone who knows the business - GM - run the show). Cerberus is a financial company, and I contend that they never understood the nature of the automotive business; they thought they could come in, clean house, and the profits would come. For those unaware, the automotive business is not like any other retail product in the world; people IDENTIFY with their vehicles. Most folks don't identify with, let's say, their refrigerator. Vehicles are not just a brand of toothpaste or an adequate appliance. To many customers, their car = their person. It's a psychologically intense business because of that identification. Cerberus thought "one product = the next product, so we can just shave off money in manufacturing and make it profitable." Cerberus management started crapping the proverbial brick when they realized they were not dealing in simple widgets, from what I hear. See http://www.autoextremist.com for some background (use the Search AE button and enter Chrysler...there is some good stuff there).

This news is very interesting, to be sure. And of course all I wrote above is my humble opinion. But I think it's valid or I wouldn't have posted. :-)

[ReadTomPaine]

34. Wait - read this from Autoblog:

I was ready to agree on Cerberus until I just came across this tidbit:

"The merger of GM and Chrysler would put Cerberus in charge of an "unspecified equity stake" in the GM/Chrysler corporation, making the two-headed automaker the world's largest auto manufacturer, controlling over 35 percent of the U.S. vehicle market, causing rifts among brand faithful and offering more potential for (vehicle) cannibalization than the Donner Party. Not to mention both automakers' labor contracts, supplier dealers and slipping market share. Shocked? We are. And there's undoubtedly more to come."

Now this I don't like one bit.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/10/breaking-gm-and-chrysler-in-merger-talks/

[susanna]

36. "Unspecified equity stake"?

Oooooohhhh...that's not good, and if GM lawyers go for it, they deserve the results.

Wow. Just wow. Thanks, ReadTomPaine. That does change my thinking. I figured Cerberus was the one begging to get out. This sounds completely different and I don't like the idea of what all this might mean inside GM right now. That's scary. I tend to trust Autoblog - lots of insiders out there.

On edit: additional info

[ReadTomPaine]

37. And I was right there with you about Cerberus until I came across this...

Scary indeed. Dan Quayle part owner of GM. Yikes.

[susanna]

44. Just a gut feeling here...

Is that Cerberus, if they are the shopping-around cause of all this, are just being really canny. They have a mountain of cash; GM does not. They are going to do everything possible to get the best deal. That is, after all, their trademark. They're the shark circling for the kill, in other words.

I think they are shopping at a bargain-basement sale and getting concessions they normally would not have gotten. That worries me immensely. But then Cerberus isn't in the business for their love of autos, now are they? That is something that will become apparent if they are the victors in all of this. :scared:

[ReadTomPaine]

46. Since they appear to be interested in gaining a stake in GM, I'm not sure what to think.

It's a curious situation. It's going to take a little digging to find out more.

[susanna]

48. Agreed.

But they may have done their due diligence and rolled the dice for GM, thinking they have the best chance to survive.

I love your phrase here: "It's a curious situation." I think that hits the nail on the head.

Hmmm...off to bed and to ponder it all. It's been nice discussing this with you. :-)

[Sailing]

40. Then merge with Ford,

and the only American cars are General Fordslers. With their star model, the PintoVega.

[regnaD kciN]

41. It'll be the "Big None" pretty soon...

:-(

[lutefisk]

45. Or the Big Three will be Toyota, Honda, and Fogmler. . . n/t

[fujiyama]

43. I think GM has wanted to aquire the Jeep brand for sometime

but beyond that they won't be gaining too much. Most Chryslers are pretty much garbage, though I'll admit some of their cars have interesting styling.

While Ford and GM have made steady gains in quality over the years, Chrysler has lagged behind consistently.

Wow, this changes the landscape, but then again it's hardly been the big 3 since it was bought by Daimler and once Daimler got rid of it...well it hasn't been much of anything.

[Fenris]

47. Too big to survive.

Cerebus has $10b cash-on-hand and could probably acquire GM for $3.8b. It might sound good on paper (to someone), but the dealership load would likely kill the joint company along with the excessive marque lineup any joint venture would create (ChevroletBuickPontiacGMCCadillacSaabHummerSaturnChryslerJeepDodge). A best case scenario would likely see a lot of dealer buyouts, the end of the slow-selling marques and a sell-off (or shut down) of Saab and Hummer (and the Viper sub-marque). There's no guarantee of survival.

Color me sceptical. I'm a die-hard fan of both companies (and the American motor industry in general), but I want them to remain separate. This is not good.

[Divernan]

54. I wish to hell they would sell off Saab. I haven't been able to get decent service for my Saab

since GM shut down the independent Saab sales/service operations and transferred them all to their GM dealerships. I never minded paying top dollar for Saab service/technicians because they took superb care of my cars, which I have driven for at least 200,000 miles each since 1982. If I could have found a big three model which would have offered me the crash protectionand great mileage which one got from Saab and Volvo, I would have bought it. I drove 45,000 miles a year in my job, and my Saabs saved my life twice in highway collisions (neither of which were my fault) which totaled my cars, but from which I could walk away with minor injuries.

[geminifemini]

55. NOT ONE RED CENT!

None of the automakers deserve federal bailouts or assistance
without contractual agreement that they produce electric cars
ONLY!

[DainBramaged]

59. One big red x

(sigh)another one bites the dust

[BearSquirrel2]

62. This is a nightmare ...

We need smaller, more agile businesses. This is posing to create a monstrously large company that no one would dream of allowing to fail.

[IndianaGreen]

63. GM was already considering dropping some of the lines

no matter what, a merger with Chrysler or with a foreign company, we can expect more layoffs and plant closings.

[DainBramaged]

69. THAT is a very bad fact of life if this occurs, VERY bad

UNLESS, they do production for............

[Hannah Bell]

65. yet gm is top dog in china, with big off-shore profits. odd, that. such poor strategy here, but

good there.

almost as if...nah, couldn't be.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-10/26/content_717465.htm

[PassingFair]

70. Soon we will all be driving the SAME car!

[Dems4me]

73. As long as it's made in America, cheap to own and gets good fuel mileage, I'm Good. n/t

[Dover]

71. A little refesher about Cerebus (80 % owner of Chrysler shares)

Such an appropriate name...the mythological dog who guarded the gates to Hades.

These guys are so deep into corruption and fraud, everything they touch is suspect:


----

Created in 1992, Cerberus is a hedge fund, a type of private investment group that's not regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission. It's named after the mythical, three-headed dog guarding the gates of Hades.

Often called a "vulture fund," Cerberus invests mainly in companies in or on the verge of bankruptcy, buying those firms' bonds in the hopes of converting them into cash or stock in a revived company. In 2000, the company hired former vice president Dan Quayle as a top executive.

In 2003, Cerberus owned more than $140 million in stock and bonds of the bankrupt telecommunications giant WorldCom, financial records show. Its stake in the company, which had filed for bankruptcy protection the previous year, was large enough that a Cerberus executive joined the board of directors of MCI, the company's post-bankruptcy name.

MCI has been a major subcontractor since 2000 on an $8.8 billion project to build a secure computer network for the Navy and Marines. According to a House Appropriations Committee report in 2002, the program had "been unstable since its inception in 1999."

The committee report noted the program's cost overruns, schedule delays and management foul-ups in its report accompanying the 2003 defense spending bill, also sponsored by Lewis. That report called for more and better testing of the program before more computers were added to the network...cont'd

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-01-19-cerberus-cover_x.htm

---

Cerberus Capital Management, L.P. is one of the largest private equity investment firms in the USA. The firm is based in New York City, and run by 48-year-old financier Steve Feinberg. Former U.S. Vice President Dan Quayle has been a prominent Cerberus spokesperson and runs one of its international units.

On October 19, 2006, John W. Snow, President George W. Bush's second United States Secretary of the Treasury, was named chairman of Cerberus (Paulson's predecessor).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus_Capital_Management

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Cerberus Takes Over Majority Interest In Chrysler Group and Related Financial Services Business for $7.4 Billion From DaimlerChrysler

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/05-14-2007/0004587120&EDATE=

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About John Snow:

Published on Sunday, December 15, 2002 by the Boulder Daily Camera

An Economic Snow Job
by Molly Ivins
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1215-02.htm


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John Snow:

...From 1994 through 1996, he was Chairman of the Business Roundtable, a business policy group of 250 chief executive officers of the nation's largest companies, and played a major role in supporting passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement.

..snip..
Snow was nominated as Secretary of the Treasury by President George W. Bush on January 13, 2003 and unanimously confirmed by the US Senate.

In May 2004, it was revealed that Snow's brokers had bought $10 million of debt issued by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac without his knowledge in February 2003. When Snow found out, he divested the debt holdings. A Treasury ethics lawyer has found that the holdings did not represent a conflict of interest but had the potential to do so in the future.

On May 26, 2006 Snow announced that he would resign effective July 3. He said the White House would make an official statement the following week. On May 30, it was formally announced that Snow would leave this position. On this same day, it was announced that President George W. Bush had nominated Henry Paulson, CEO of Goldman Sachs, to replace Snow...>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Snow

[ReadTomPaine]

74. Great post and well timed - not enough people know about Cerberus..

They are trouble.

[susanna]

76. And I third that assessment. n/t

[ReadTomPaine]

77. It also looks like Ford is divesting itself from Mazda btw...

http://business.theage.com.au/business/ford-may-sell-mazda-stake-20081012-4yx4.html

Ford, after almost three decades as an investor in Japan's Mazda, is believed to be considering selling its controlling stake.

A sale of the one-third holding in Mazda isn't certain, said a source, who asked not to be identified because no decision has been made.

"We do not want to comment on speculation,'' Dearborn, Michigan-based Ford said yesterday in a statement.

Unloading the stake would end an era in which the second largest US car-maker used Mazda to help groom executives including its incoming finance chief and its current head of North American operations.

Combined with their plan to sell Volvo, I wonder if this is penny wise and pound foolish. Many of Ford's products use either Volvo or Mazda platforms, drivetrains and more. I'm fond of both of those marques, and hope this works out well for them.

[susanna]

81. Saw that this morning.

I am not sure it's a good idea for precisely the reasons you mention - there is a lot of platform sharing there and, IMHO, Ford's vehicles have improved as a direct result of that. But if they need the money, they need the money. :-(

[nolabels]

78. Typical Detroit automaker mindset, bigger is better

:banghead:

[ReadTomPaine]

79. It appears Cerberus is interesting in acquiring the rest of GMAC according to Dain's thread in GD...

Check it out.

"Cerberus offered to sell Chrysler to GM in return for GM selling its remaining 49 percent stake in GMAC to Cerberus."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4217626