France, Germany Agree to Unite Europe in Face of Credit Crisis

[FarCenter]

Source: Deutsche Welle

German Chancellor Merkel and French President Sarkozy discussed the option of partially nationalizing European banks ahead of a meeting of euro zone leaders. Berlin is also reportedly set to present its own rescue deal. The pair met at the home village and final resting place of General Charles de Gaulle on Saturday, Oct. 11, one day before a Paris summit on the global credit crisis of the leaders of all 15 members of the euro zone.

France and Germany have "exactly the same view" on the financial crisis, Sarkozy told reporters. "We have prepared a certain number of decisions that we will submit to our partners in the presence of the president of the European Commission and the governor of the (European) central bank," he said. "All decisions, all preparations and all analyses, we're making together."

Merkel agreed on the need for unity, and said governments would have to "redirect the markets so that they serve the people, and not ruin them." She also said Paris and Berlin were "on the same path as regards putting in place a concerted and coherent reaction for the euro zone." The chancellor, however, added that there was also "naturally room for maneuver for each member state."

Both leaders also rejected establishing a common European fund to aid banks. Sarkozy said a pan-European pot would create "gigantic problems. "This isn't about a European fund, but about balanced behavior by all member states," Merkel added.


Read more: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,3706065,00.html

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Germany and France will not bail out the UK and the US.

[Xipe Totec]

1. Frankly my dear, I don't give a Deutchmark for the Pound nt

[Waiting For Everyman]

2. If derivatives are global, then

how do France and Germany expect to be unaffected by them? Maybe so, and I hope they aren't but it doesn't make sense to me. I have a hunch that eventually they will be following what Britain and the U.S. are doing - and that we will be following more what Britain has done in nationalizing. I have another hunch that France and Germany "holding out" is the reason why we are not taking additional steps right now, which would probably lessen the damage. We'll see.

I think not only Reaganomics and laissez-faire failed, but globalization was a big fat failure too. It's like the difference between two runners sprinting separately or running a sack race. Which is faster?

As we see here with the G7 and within the EC, which one is easier to do... to get a committee to agree? or to make a decision on one's own? It isn't practical. Especially in times of crisis.

Granted, it will probably take a lot more damage before that obvious fact is acknowledged and this farce of globalized finance is given up.

Meanwhile, everyday people slide over the dam more and more, waiting for them to get it together. There are solutions, but nobody wants to do something different from the group, while the group does nothing.

I have a whole lot more faith in Britain or the U.S. coming up with a New Deal type of plan that will work, than I do that the EC will come up with one. And it will probably come down to taking that action independently. While the rest criticize.

[FarCenter]

4. I think that the Eurozone can move ahead without the EU

The EU as a whole is too large, diverse, and conflicted to function effectively.

However, the Eurozone is more compact, has a longer history of cooperation, and has more shared objectives -- which is why these countries were able to agree no a currency union in the first place.

Since the voting down of the last revision of the EU treaty, I would expect there to be more impetus for the "two-speed" solution.

In particular, I would think that kicking the UK out, withdrawing from NATO, and reaching a modus vivendi with Russia would be Europe's best way forward.

[melody]

6. And doing that would brew a huge war between the US and Europe

Some factions of Europe may want to believe the US is destroyed but we still have more resources than they would like.

[Waiting For Everyman]

16. Similar to what they tried to do last time, before WW2.

That worked out well.

[melody]

3. The governments of France and Germany are living in a dream world

They don't realize the ground is falling out from under them, too. At least the US and UK are dealing with the problem.

Germany and France may well be ruing the day they made the cocky announcement.

[Ravachol]

5. I don't know the mood in Germany

But if Sarkozy was to make a bailout the likes we've seen in the US, he would have a revolt on his hands. He's getting dangerously unpopular and the French have a tradition of hitting the streets in protest.

Also, both Germany and France are much less affected, so far, by the global crisis. They didn't have the subprime crisis. More banks are already nationalized there and the markets are way more regulated.

There is a world of differences. While action must be taken, I would tend to agree with both Sarkozy and Merkel on this one: there is room to maneuver. All countries aren't the same. Plus, so far, the bailout doesn't seem like the brightest measure ever passed.

[melody]

7. And if they ally with Russia, they have more problems ahead

And they are still very much at risk by derivatives while creating the perfect storm for a US/Europe war.

[FarCenter]

8. Europe doesn't have the debt to East Asia or the Middle East

Most likely, they could nationalize the banks, declare the derivative contracts void, and place more of their economies under management to deemphasize the financial system going forward.

Use of military force by the US against European countries is out of the question. Won't happen.

[melody]

9. It would be a war between Europe and the US -- some elements of the EU have been spoiling for it

This would just ignite it.

We'll end up nationalizing our banks and doing things the same way -- probably waiving a lot of consumer debt, too, when the end rounds up. What it comes down to is we just have to raise taxes and lower expenditures and stay the hell away from voodoo economics (loathe as I am to quote W's dad). Every homeowner in the world knows that.

And you can say "won't happen" all you like but there are forces in the EU and US that despise each other. Any kind of Russian alliance would ignite that in a second. And we'd have a lovely world war on our hands.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. Really? Which 'elements of the EU' have been spoiling for it?

I am now fascinated by your alternate reality. Please elaborate.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. Ok I was playing along with your nonsense but you can stop right there.

"creating the perfect storm for a US/Europe war"? WTF are you going on about? There is not going to be a US/Europe war, that is insane.

European nations such as Germany and France, with their long history of democratic socialist institutions, should be less exposed and better able to deal with the collapse of the Washington directed Wall Street based global financial system than we are. They never fully signed on to the neoliberal bullshit to begin with.

[melody]

12. Warren, you insult people instead of debating them

I put you on mental "ignore" a long time ago.

If you want to discuss this like adults, I'd be happy to but you won't, if your long pattern is upheld ... and it will be ... so I'm placing you on regular ignore. Welcome to my list.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. Debate the coming US/Europe War?

Sure. Anytime.

Pro: Europe and the USA are headed for war.

Con: This is fucking nonsense.

I'll take the Con side. I've made my case. Please proceed.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. ...meanwhile...Chimp throws poo...

George is getting old.

[melody]

15. The Idiot King is doing what he was paid to do

Destroy our economy.