5 found fatally shot in SoCal homeless encampment

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

Nov 2, 7:08 PM EST

5 found fatally shot in SoCal homeless encampment

LONG BEACH, Calif. (AP) -- Police say five homeless people were found shot to death in a makeshift camp near some Los Angeles-area freeway ramps.

Long Beach police say they responded to an anonymous call Sunday morning. They found the bodies of five adults in a brush-filled area between some commercial buildings and a freeway interchange.

Deputy Police Chief Robert Luna says all five had been shot.

Read more: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/H/HOMELESS_SHOOTINGS?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

[undeterred]

1. Why?

:shrug:

[Gregorian]

2. It probably reminds them of their own fragility.

And they know they can get away with it. And they were raised without principals. And they probably watch Fox news. And dozens of things.

I used to do work on a woman's car when I was a kid. She had a son who was quite a nice little guy. A year or so later I came back to work on her car, and this guy was huge. He was on the football team. Then the next thing I know, he had been arrested for killing a homeless man down in Southern California. This was a long time ago. But he didn't have a father. He may have suffered from physical changes coming out of adolescence.

I think that as a society we could raise the level of consciousness, and it would go a long way to further compassion. When Bush first hit the Oval Office I said there would be an increase in crime and illness. I don't think it was nearly as bad as I predicted. But somehow I feel that an Obama administration would do much toward enlightening some of our youth. It's not just America. I see all kinds of horrible examples in Britain.

So who knows. I feel that as the world grows in size, it tends to lessen the value of each human. It's always how I've felt. I hope I'm wrong. I see the answers to these things as being so simple. I guess temptation is too great for some. There is a key in the fact that these were homeless people. And I think it's that whomever did it felt they could get away with it.

[tomreedtoon]

5. Why? Because they can.

Human beings are violent creatures. Look at the people watching that vampire soap opera on HBO. Vampires are basically metaphors for rapists and serial murderers. (No, Virginia, they're not metaphors for gays, because that would imply that all gays rape and murder.) People love 'em.

And people love that Showtime thing about a serial killer who successfully covers up his crimes.

I don't believe in censorship. However, I do believe in calling bloodlust and sadism what it is, even if it's popular culture. Of COURSE some guy with a gun would enjoy blowing away helpless innocents. I'll bet money that when the killer is found, he's a high school kid who wanted the thrill of being his own Freddy Krueger.

[heliarc]

6. I think your analysis is a little reductive...

Though I certainly agree with your vote for compassion. Vampire in the culture has a lot to do with a concept in sexualized literature that I think of as passion by proxy... It can be campy because the thought was that it was a way for women to enjoy sexual rapture without their own agency. That could be considered rape, but you should remember that the "possessed" women are "allowed" to experience sexual pleasure because it is not their will, but the will of newly undead state... or is it? and that duality can be very challenging to popular conceptions of women... at least in the 1800s when it was very taboo to think women enjoyed sex. But there they were enjoying sex. I find that very subversive. Very feminist. Could be my perspective.

Now if you had watched the Showtime show you might appreciate that Dexter is a serial killer who chooses his victims for the justice he wishes to achieve. He kills other serial killers... That is his desire...

So again there is a critique of the serial killer compounded in what is obviously an indulgence in the sadistic subject matter.

And another thing that I think is important as a response to your analysis. I know quite a few people who are Masochists. They just like pain. You may think of that as a perversion, but I also know that they have found loving partners who can fill that role as loyal committed people who simply enjoy inflicting the kind of pain that their partner enjoys. These people are loving and committed partners and their enjoyment of pain in no way affects their ability to understand and respect the social boundaries and morals that govern laws of consent and reciprocity. In fact these sorts of relationships can be very special in the intensity of trust and desire. That is not something to be overlooked. You may find it perverse, but it exists.

Perhaps that is what you are saying... That we are animals with a dark side that remains, but I also think that you are equating Sado Masochism with the criminal activity. I don't particularly think that is a clear cut argument.

[tomreedtoon]

11. All I know is what I see.

And I see Americans becoming cruel, violent and bloodthirsty. Of course they make heroes of vampires. All this crap (including the "masochist" insanity) is just justification for engaging in the darkest, worst aspect of the human psyche.

The problem is...and I don't intend to sound religious, but in a sense it is...that the majority of Americans have no moral or ethical compasses. "Do what thou wilt" is NOT a law. It is conceit and greed. It is denying that there are any restraints to what you do to somebody. And people on the liberal/left/Democratic side have been tarred with that brush enough. Oh, I believe people here have morals, but they're ashamed about them. They think that promoting morals is unseemly and awkward and "conservative." Which is why Bush got away with what he did for so long, and why Democrats in government let him do it.

And I stand against violence done to anybody, even if the victim seems to love it. If I encountered one of those s-and-m scenes that you seem to worship, I would first beat the sadist bloody, then I'd kick and break the jaw of the asshole who wanted to be beaten. That's what I call a moral vision. And I wouldn't get pleasure out of it. It's something that needs to be done.

[heliarc]

12. "seems to love it"

Your argument sounds like a moral one to me... and I respect where it comes from. I share your hope for compassion and your fear of this bloodthirst, because I think I see the same things in the violent responses to Barack Obama, or the mean spirited attacks on people working to protect marriage as a right for Gay and Lesbian couples and all Californians right now. I am not a masochist, but I loved one very much in the past. It was one of the most difficult, mind twisting things to love someone and also see their desire for sensations that I would not myself desire. She was not twisted though. She was playful, curious and loving herself. We broke up in large part because I couldn't fulfill her desires for pain. For whatever reason, some people enjoy pain, and what people do to enjoy themselves in the bedroom isn't for you to judge as long as they are acting of their own free will and with respect for one another. It is a right no matter how prejudiced you are against it. I will fight for that beautiful and intelligent woman's right to love someone however she pleases. It is her right.

You wouldn't say that to Gay and Lesbian Americans would you? That they "seem to love it." That their sexuality is a justification for engaging in dark behavior? Because you sound a lot like some of the discriminatory people we fight against here... the ones who would tell people their sexuality isn't their own. I know that your argument comes from a compassionate place, but a lot of the fearful church-goers who are so angry at Gay and Lesbian americans also view themselves as moral superiors who only want to help someone... help someone by governing how people conduct themselves in private.

And, I don't "worship" anything really, but I am a compassionate person, My post says nothing at all about pornography or "scenes" as you call them. Maybe you are projecting your own interest in porn onto me, because we were talking about Main stream shows that might sometimes be metaphors for our raw human impulses. I think you misunderstand my position on what people who love each other should have rights to do in their bedrooms. Porn is a whole different complicated topic that doesn't have much to do with how loving people communicate their sexual desire for each other with heightened or painful sensations. However prejudiced against it you are, masochism is not "crap." It is a psychological trait of some people, perhaps in response to their experiences, that for whatever reason compels them to enjoy and seek heightened sensations, possibly painful ones. It does not mean that people do so injuriously to themselves or hate themselves, or hate others. Of course it is delicate emotionally, and psychologically. Any time we touch someone it should be done with compassion for their needs, but that doesn't change how complex the bedroom can be. As intelligent humans we are capable of a wide range of very playful, theatrical, and fun attitudes toward sex that heighten our interest and enrich our understanding of ourselves and our partners. I see responsible expressions of Sadism and/or Masochism as another one of these human attitudes that should be protected and practiced with care just as any other sexual act is practiced. I try not to respond to violence with violence as you admit you would. But perhaps you are a vampire lurking underneath the guise of a human being.

So I don't think we're that much in disagreement. Of course there are unhealthy relationships where one person is sadistic and the other is a victim of their emotional and physical domination. Those are terrible circumstances, and people should be encouraged to respond with self respect to their partners and combat the "cruel" and "violent" impulses to harm one another. In a lot of cases people should intervene also. Maybe you understand my point now. If not than thanks at least for reading and hearing me out. I'm sorry if you thought I was some sort of nut. :hi:

But the other part of my argument about the history of Vampire signs in the culture is that it is very very old. There is nothing new about something you yourself say is part of our animal nature so it doesn't quite follow that we as Americans "are becoming cruel." It is more likely that the compassion and inclusion of the Obama campaign is a trigger for all of the latent cruelty in people who lack understanding and respond with hatred. That does worry me right now in our society, but Hollywood examinations of cruelty and hatred that are centuries old don't worry me as much, especially when they are as campy and self deprecating as the shows you mention. I'm more worried about the new 90210 or the Hills... shows which seem to justify selfish consumer behavior all the while propping up young people's sense of self-righteousness and detachment from their fellow citizens. That's where I think the cruelty is.

If you can imagine that the HBO true Blood show or whatever it's called is a metaphor for bloodthirst, can't you also imagine that it is a message to the compassionate people in the culture to watch their necks? From everything I hear, its just a piss poor show, but I respect the people who produced Six Feet Under, and the way that the show is framed is to show vampires being integrated into society. That is a framing of the vampire story that we haven't seen yet. It is an exploration of a metaphor that suggests that the people we hate because they are bloodsuckers might actually be good citizens or even have rights if they control their urges, and though I haven't seen it at all, I imagine there are "good" vampire characters and "bad" ones. That's interesting as an artistic and social argument. It doesn't necessarily encourage cruelty, but might examine how to combat it or how it infuses the society.

[Hestia]

7. Wow - I never thought my liking True Blood would make me like rapists and serial

murders, and I am 50! I would never ever think of actually drinking blood like some do, it's just a genre I have always read since I was a kid. Don't equate love of gore with vampires. Two different animals.

[tomreedtoon]

10. Sorry, you're wrong. It's causality.

Vampires kill other people to live. Period. Anne Rice, who in horror is a combination of Joseph Goebbels and Richard Speck, tried to make "nice" vampires. There are no such things.

And vampires are also not a metaphor for gay people. That's an insult to gay people. You want a metaphor for gays, look at Marvel Comics and the X-Men - people who are just people, only different, and hated by most of humanity for ridiculous reasons. People hate vampires because you're supposed to hate someone who wants to kill you, a perfectly rational idea.

Vampires are metaphors for rapists and murderers. That's it. And they are popular in fiction right now because Americans want to kill and hurt other people to continue to live and prosper. The cruelty and viciousness in that fiction encourages people to be cruel and vicious.

So you never drank blood. Ever slapped a child (even one that wasn't yours)? Ever applauded someone being killed? Vampire fiction has worked its wonderful magic on you, as it did on some teens here in Florida who killed their grandmother and bragged about it all the way to jail. Players of "Vampire: The Masquerade." 'Nuff said.

[heliarc]

13. How can you compare Anne Rice

to Richard Speck? That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Anne rice is a novelist who is not affiliated in any way to an organized Nazi effort to kill a whole race of people.

I am not a fan of Anne Rice, but I haven't heard anything about her supporting Nazis.

I went to see Anne Rice speak about her books once as a part of the Miami Book fair years ago, and you know who was present in large numbers? The Gay community... many of whom see Anne Rice's reframing of the vampire story as an empowering exposure. A subversive and redefining revival of the vampire trope to empower Gay people and celebrate the culture that was vilified in previous expressions of the genre.

You can see the vampire stories however you like, but I will remind you that Anne Rice is heroic to a lot of people in the Gay and Lesbian community because she exposed the Vampire metaphor and made us all aware of how it was used against the Gay culture. You may see that as indulgent, but a lot of Gay and Lesbian people saw it as an important contribution to the discourse.

By the way, if you have any concrete proof that Anne Rice conducted a propaganda campaign for the Nazi's or performed genetic experiments on Jewish people please post that. I'd love to see it.

[Haole Girl]

3. That is so sad

:cry:

[L0oniX]

4. Sick ...as if it ain't bad enough to be homeless n/t

[roguevalley]

8. this is sickening but I know they are now safe and warm and

surrounded by the love they couldn't find here. God bless and keep them in the Summerlands.

[Zhade]

9. What the FUCK?

Humans suck so much sometimes.

[question everything]

14. This is horrible. And so far, only 3 of the five were identified

and even the identity of the caller is still a mystery

LONG BEACH - A 24-year-old woman who was among five people shot to death in a homeless encampment was identified today.

Katherine Verdun was killed between two buildings off the San Diego (405) Freeway near Santa Fe Avenue and the Carson city limits, perhaps between 12:30 a.m. and 1 a.m. Sunday, according to people who reported hearing gunshots about that time.

Detectives want to talk to the anonymous caller who reported the killings via 911 about 8:30 a.m. the same day.

The other victims who have been publicly were Lorenzo Perez Villicana, 43, and Vanessa Malaepule, 34. Coroner's investigators are still trying to notify the next of kin of two victims, Ed Winter of the coroner's office said.

One was described as a man in his 40s of Middle Eastern descent, and the other was a white man in his 50s.

A cousin of Malaepule's told the Long Beach Press-Telegram that Malaepule, a mother of six, was visiting her boyfriend

http://www.presstelegram.com/ci_10895790