Al Franken's Razor-Thin MN Senate Race Counted on Flawed Optical-Scan Systems

[BradBlog]

Source: BRAD BLOG



Al Franken's Razor-Thin MN Senate Race Counted on Flawed Optical-Scan Systems
PLUS: Details on 'What in the Hell Happened in Alaska' and Georgia and Oregon...

Hare are a few quick facts on the Al Franken (D) / Norm Coleman (R) U.S. Senate race in Minnesota, which we noted last night (with some updates today) stands at some 700 votes currently between them. More hopefully after I've figured out how to sneak in some rest.

Here's are three quick, bullet-point facts -- including details on the failed machines used to "count" the race -- that Franken may want to know, since his was the only show on Air America which never had me on as a guest, as he simply refused to discuss serious issues concerning Election Integrity, now-ironically enough.

(Also see this link for some quick skinny on some very serious concerns about the outstanding Senate races in AK, OR and GA...)

FULL STORY: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6641

Related from Monday...
ES&S Op-Scans 'Yielding Different Results Each Time Same Ballots Run Through Machines' in MI County
FULL STORY: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6613

Read more: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6641

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Bookmarking for later.. Thanks.

[tblue]

2. We've got to show that we've got his back!!!

The r/w press is gonna chastise him and we can't stand idly by. Any ideas? I'm ready though I don't know what to do.

[emlev]

11. Ideas: 1. Remember it's not HIS back, it's the VOTERS' backs!

The race is not his to concede. It belongs to the voters of Minnesota.

2. Get people organized to observe the recount and to begin now to document the process, chain of custody of voting materials, etc. Make public records requests.

3. Check out this article by Richard Hayes Phillips, author of Witness To a Crime: A Citizens' Audit of an American Election:

What Constitutes An Election Audit

[tblue]

12. Okay! I'm in!

[NMDemDist2]

3. thanks for all you do Brad

:yourock:

:patriot:

[stellanoir]

4. Yeah

I remember the day after Kerry lost. Franken had one statistician on his show from MIT. I heard it after listening to Palest eloquently elucidate about spoilage in that election.

After that, Franken continually discounted the issue of multitudinous irregularities based on the say so of one ill informed "alleged" expert.

Drove me nutz.

So the occurrence of this particular squeaker is more than a little ironic to me.

[orleans]

13. i just remember he drove me crazy too--we all wore a bunch of

tinfoil hats in his opinion.

well--of course i want him to win. actually, now i want him to win by such a degree that it would be obvious that the tabulation in those machines was fucked with.

[Eric J in MN]

5. re "Different Results Each Time"

It would be nice if the letter said if it were a one-vote difference or a hundred-vote difference.

[jerry92]

6. I smell a rat

I don't trust Republicans in close races. specially when voting machines are involved.

[myrna minx]

14. We, in Minnesota, vote with paper ballots, but slide our ballots into an optical

scanner, which tabulates the votes. We at least have the paper back up, for verification, unlike the "touch screen" voting machines. I think this re-count will be very interesting.

[comtec]

20. A HAND recound should show the correct results then yes?(nt)

[myrna minx]

34. Yes. That's why the results of this election may not be known for 6 weeks because

the ballots will be hand counted.

[Peace Patriot]

63. The smart Americans of previous generations hand-counted their paper ballots,

totted up the results, posted them at the precinct and broadcast them to the world, in, oh, a day or two.

Dumb retard Americans of the 21st century can't sort, can't count, can't add very well, and it takes us SIX WEEKS to perform the simplest acts of arithmetic, citizenhood and humanhood.

Maybe that's why they beat Hitler and were called "the greatest generation." They could COUNT!

[customerserviceguy]

42. That's what we did in 2004

in Washington State in the governor's election. I was part of the hand recount of ballots in my county, and we found (at my table) one ballot that had a vote for Christine Gregoire that the machine did not pick up. The voter had "X"ed through the circle, rather than fully blackening it in. The machine could not pick it up, but it was crystal-clear to the three people at my table that it should have been counted. Listening around the room, I heard similar tales.

At least there is a traceable event in this case. Out here in NY, we use lever machines, if a voter doesn't put sufficient pressure on the lever, it won't lock into place. Once the big lever that opens the curtain is pulled, there's no record of even an attempt to vote in that situation. Even a hanging chad is better than that!

[CatholicEdHead]

53. Yep along with a Voter Intention law

So a check or irregular mark next to the name assumes a vote that way if the circle was not filled in.

It is about as good as you can get.

[defendandprotect]

76. Admirable/smart/ethical people, you Minnesotans ...!!!

[Stellabella]

7. WOW.

I didn't know those machines were so flawed. I'm SO glad there are paper ballots. I just hope the chain of custody isn't tainted.

[scytherius]

8. Yes. Thank you Brad! n/t

nt

[tavalon]

It is a bit ironic, eh?

He got bit by the dog he refused to admit existed. Whoops!

[bjobotts]

9. Though smarter and more honest than Coleman, just thought we could do better

[bjobotts]

10. Maybe if another dem would have won the primary...who knows

but anything being better than Coleman is not a recommendation.

[defendandprotect]

73. Senate can use some humor ...which delivers a lot of truth ---

[sandnsea]

15. Which is why there will be a hand recount

So that every undervote and overvote is counted.

[orleans]

17. but certainly no election fraud--right?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3586157

[orleans]

16. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3586157&mesg_id=3586426

[Hawkowl]

18. HAHA!

I really hope he pulls it off--but I also hope HE FUCKING GETS IT NOW!!!
His pooh poohing election fraud drove me up the wall.

I must say I just new this was going to happen to him. You don't spit in the eyes of the gods and not expect hubris to take a bite out of your ass.

[Stevepol]

19. Great article. K&R! Brad cites an exit poll that had Franken up 12 points.

This could be the recount that does it for these machines. I personally think that Mondale beat Coleman in their first encounter in 02. At least MN uses optiscan and has the paper to recount. If a hand-count is done and done fairly, I believe Franken will be found to be the winner. I would bet almost any amount of money that the hand-couunted result will be much different from the published or alleged machine counted results.

[truedelphi]

26. There's a certain sense of irony here - Franken avoided

Everyone of us activists in the "Stolen Election" crowd. You never heard Andy Stephenson on Franken's show - it was Randy R. that let him on constatnly during the 2004 cycle.

Franken still believes in corporate-sponsored health care, and he wouldn't pay attention about the election machinery.

I do hope he wins the election, and I hope his experience is a wakeup call to what we activists wanted him to understand. It's only our democracy that is at stake.

[craiga86]

30. So what?

Good lord, the guy didn't believe that the election was stolen. I believe myself that the past 2 elections were fishy and probably stolen, but when a bunch of Democrats start making that claim it makes us look silly. So what if he didn't speak out against it? No reason to wish him to lose that way.

[truedelphi]

78. I DID NOT SAY I HOPE HE LOSES. PERIOD

I did say it is ironic - that when those of us that wanted some of his abundant air time to talk about the most important theft in the nation's history - he wouldn't even let any of us on.

Generally a talk show host can educate themselves about an issue - and even if they are still undecided, they can let on someone with stronger views.

Would it have hurt Mr Franken to have had Stephenson on - explaining the recorded data of all the mishaps that electronic voting was possibly responsible for?? Franken could have had Andy on, and said, at the end, "Well you still haven't convinced me, Mr Stephenson, but I admire you for your intelligence, your courage, and your unflailing devotion to this issue. You obviously are sincere."

But Franken did not even throw those crumbs our way. Now he is experiencing the HARD WAY what those electronic vote counters are all about.

[machI]

21. Oh give me a break

The same voting machines that gave Obama 54% to mccain's 44%, the same voting machines that elected Democrats in five of eight House seats, are some how stealing the election for coleman?

The freepers I know at work are just slathering at the bit to jump on some Aluminum-Foil-Hat theory like that to vent on.

[trumad]

22. Why are you worried about what freepers think?

Fuck the freeps..

Now think logically about your post. If the machines were not working and flipped some votes, wouldn't that increase Obamas vote totals as well? Point is---Al needs 500 votes and if this helps, so be it.

[machI]

23. Al lost the election

A full 54% of the voters went for Obama, but only 42% went to Franken. Twelve percent difference tells me Al was not elected. Voters casting a straight Democratic tickets would have easily pulled Al along to victory, but they split their tickets for a reason.

[myrna minx]

37. There were three candidates in the Senate race in Minnesota.

Had Dean Barkley not run as an Independent, I think Al could have won decisively. Al had to contend with horrendous negative ads waged against him from all the Republican 527 big guns to the Republican party itself, and they convinced just enough people that Al Franken thinks rape is funny and Al writes porn, even though neither is true. These ads were personal in nature and not about policy at all. It was the most despicable ad season I've ever seen. They peeled off just enough votes from Franken to go to Barkley, leaving a 470 vote deficit between Coleman and Franken.

We in Minnesota vote on paper ballots with an optical scan tabulator. With the margin of vote difference of 470 respectively, (that's just two hours of voting at my precinct alone), a hand count is warranted and justified. I certainly know if it was Coleman who had the vote deficit, he would be be hoarse from demanding that we correct this injustice.

Now there are questions about a paid staffer for Coleman, acting as a translator at a predominately Somali precinct, possibly breaking election law and urging people of the Somali community to vote for Coleman, while AT the precinct.
http://wcco.com/election/voter.irregularities.allegations.2.857437.html

So I suggest you quit worrying about what your freeper friends are upset about. Are they the same type of folks who believe Obama returned to Hawaii to kill his own grandmother, to cover up the truth of his real birthplace? :eyes:

The difference is 470. 470. This will be a good audit to see of our tabulating system is accurate.

[road2000]

38. Picking and choosing races

I have read that the machines can be "fixed" for certain races, so that "normal" votes are recorded in every other race, but not recorded in a chosen race. That may be what's happening here, even if it seems far-fetched. One has to acknowledge that the Repubs have been abnormally fixated on this seat for a long time.

All the ES&S-type machines were shut down the morning of the election in my county, because they were not recording votes for one candidate. I tried to find out who it was, but was unable.

[myrna minx]

40. In Minnesota, we have paper ballots, not touch screen machines.

Where the issue is, is that we slide our ballots into a optical scanner that tabulates the votes. If there were any problems with an optical scanner at any precinct, this could be a problem for correct vote tabulation, that is why a hand count is required for a 470 vote difference. This will be good for us, because Minnesota is known for our clean elections, so this will be a good audit for us to know if our system works as accurately as we think it does.

[road2000]

68. I see. Thanks for the info. n/t

[qb]

65. This possibility has been on my mind...

The Obama margin was clearly too huge to flip undetected. All they could do was try to prevent a Democratic supermajority in the Senate... hence these fishy results in Minnesota, Georgia, Alaska, ??? I think it is possible to pick & choose races to tamper with in an optical scan vote-tallying system, and Republican-owned ES&S and Diebold hold the keys.

It would be sweet if the Franken recount was the one to expose Republican election fraud.

[GhostofRichardRorty]

106. Who is this "they"?

Minnesota has a DFL Secretary of State. Exactly who is the "they" that is supposed to be pulling off this vote flipping, and how are they supposedly doing it? Sorry, I don't buy the fraud theory here. Minnesota reelected Pawlenty in 2006, reelected Bachmann this year, and (to be honest) Franken did not run a strong campaign. It didn't help that Coleman got the endorsement of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. I think the closeness of the vote can be explained by the race itself, not by fraud.

Having said that, the recount will be big news until the results in mid-December. The vote difference is only 221 right now. That means if they find about 1 more vote for Franken in 1 in every 19 precincts or so, Franken wins. Even with the low rate of errors in recording votes with the optical scanners (still the most accurate machine vote), this race is SO close that a recount is appropriate and will certainly change the final tallies significantly.

[Greyhound]

46. It doesn't strike you as odd that the "minor discrepancies" always favor the

party that the owners of the company that make the machines support? Outright stealing is too easy to prove, but the proverbial thumb on the scale is usually sufficient.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

52. Three candidates in the race and undervoting ...

Barkley, the IP candidate, took double-digits.

Also, "undervoting" accounted for 25,000 voters who voted for a presidental candidate but did NOT vote at all for a U.S. Senate candidate, according to a story on Minnesota Public Radio this morning:

"Another factor to keep in mind, the Minnesota Secretary of States office says more than 25,000 people under voted. Meaning they voted for a presidential candidate but didn't vote for a Senate candidate."

source: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/11/05/voters_for_obama_not_coleman/

[John Q. Citizen]

67. The problem is that if you ran all the ballots through again you would get a

different number, guaranteed, whether in the Presidential race or in the US Senate race.

[Eric J in MN]

69. You could say that Norm Coleman only getting 42%...

...shows that he wasn't elected, if you're applying that standard to Al Franken.

Obama got more votes than Franken or Coleman.

But the question is, who got more votes: Franken or Coleman?

[kikiek]

87. Why don't you want to make sure the voters intention is being followed?

And hey look..Norm has the same percentage! Guess he wasn't elected either. The difference is down to 300 votes already.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

93. I don't ever vote straight ticket for a several reasons

#1- i LIKE to savor my voting experience, and to color in each vote individually because it is fun.
#2 - I read that in some places, on some machines, no Presidential vote was recorded when people cast straight ticket votes
#3 - I like to keep my options open to vote for a Green or Libertarian candidate in certain local races

[machI]

24. I worry about what Freepers intend to do

There is one clown that says in a loud clear voice so that everyone in the office can hear "I'm buying $100 worth of ammo every payday until the ~deleted~ raises taxes on it."

That's a lot of bullets.

[myrna minx]

39. It sounds like your coworker may be making veiled terroristic threats.

So, are you implying that we should stop the recount in Minnesota because your coworker is unstable?

[Doctor_J]

49. I say to your clown

bring it on

[defendandprotect]

77. Maybe your office workers should consider it as a threat to you ALL and

take at least some well-thought out measures?

And, maybe what frequently happens will happen to him ...

he'll shoot himself by accident --

[kikiek]

88. If the idiot has 3000 a month to spend on ammo he is overpaid. Who cares.

[truedelphi]

25. You don't address a freepers concerns by not disussing the issue at hand

When even Tom Brokaw hints that America's method of voting is seriously flawed, then maybe something is wrong.

Do you think that freepers would stand in a line for eight to ten hours to vote? They probably don't even believe that happens, because in Freperville, there are always plenty of machines. It is only college districts, and neighborhoods where the minorities out number us White Folks where there are not enough machines provided.

Have your freeper friends watch "Stealing America vote by vote" It is now free to download. It is an excellent documentary. And they are sponsoring it over at BradBlog.

[OwnedByFerrets]

36. A Repug whistleblower was on Thom Hartmans show

last week telling everyone just how they chose "certain" counties and districts to "flip" or otherwise fuck up. Just because they are the same machines doesnt mean they arent being tampered with. Im sure the show is still available on Thoms page if you wish to listen.

[Orsino]

81. It's a little more than theory.

What would you say if a recount tipped an extra 500 votes toward Franken?

[onehandle]

27. So Al could end up with a lot less or a lot more.

Sadly, this will likely not go his way. I wish there was a smaller spread.

Actually I wish that third party Democratic spoilers would spontaneously combust.

[Festivito]

28. This could prove very interesting as a national test of computer vote counting.

I should like to see it recounted by eye by an election panel, and then again by one or more academic entities.

ON EDIT: Added words in bold

[Unca Jim]

29. Well...

Minnesota elections are some of the cleanest, most open ones in the nation.

Everyone who voted filled out a paper ballot which was retained. They will be counted and the total may change enough to give Franken the victory (like Gregorie got in Washington), but because a few (say 1000 out of 3 million) votes got miscounted by the machine is no reason to assume the whole election process is completely corrupt. I figure most gains will be in the absentee ballot where voter intention was unclear.

Of course if a conspiracy is uncovered, so be it. Honestly a lot Minnesotans don't like Al Franken and do like Norm Coleman for reasons that are mysteries to me.

[Bosso 63]

33. Yes, I want a recount, but close does not equal corruption.

[defendandprotect]

75. ....nor lack of it ---!!!

[Orsino]

82. Yeah. That's why recounts are available when the tallies are very close.

I'm not much impressed by sneering over recounts from people who have forgotten 2000.

Machines are corruptible. The people who own the machines, even more so. Count the damned ballots, I say.

[defendandprotect]

89. ...and after all said & done, stick with PAPER BALLOTS---!!

[Orangepeel]

31. Excellent! There are ballots to recount.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

56. Minnesota state law mandates it ... regardless of what FOX and other say

Franken cannot call off the recount, it is not his decision.

We need to be shouting this everytime some tool or uninformed knob says Franken should call off the recount and concede.

And, in the recount, a lot of votes may appear due to voters who incorrectly completed the ballot. We use scan machines here, like the bubble test sheets used in schools - place a check mark or "X" in the bubble or circle the bubble instead of filling it in and the machine WILL NOT read it. Many of those could be counted in a hand recount if the judges determine that the voter intended to vote one way or another. Plus, the provisional ballots.

Far from over. First the recount, then the lawsuits.

[MannyGoldstein]

32. If Franken Had Decisively Won, We Wouldn't Be Grasping At This

In this climate, and in that state, a good Democratic candidate should have won.

[customerserviceguy]

44. It's pretty rare

for someone to have the US Senate, or a governorship, as their entry-level elected position. It still hasn't been done with the Presidency, unless you count George Washington.

[MannyGoldstein]

47. Eisenhower? Grant? n/t

[customerserviceguy]

50. Good point!

When I was thinking of Washington, I should have been continuing along the lines of "Which Presidents were Generals?"

Still, you get a lot of executive experience in winning a major war, and that let the aforementioned Presidents be elected. Being an entertainer as your qualification for a major elected office usually only happens in California!

[Eric J in MN]

70. Months of negative TV ads smeared Al Franken.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/2/112458/502/46/649835

[George II]

35. Good and useful information, but ol' Brad has QUITE the chip on his shoulder, eh??

[kikiek]

41. No wonder Norm is trying to stir up public pressure to get Al to concede. He won't though.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

57. Minnesota state law requires the recount

Any race which has a margin of victory of less than one-half percent on the first ballot count REQUIRES A RECOUNT ACCORDING TO MINNESOTA STATE LAW.

"The Associated Press is uncalling the Minnesota Senate race. Republican Sen. Norm Coleman finished ahead of Democrat Al Franken early Wednesday in the final vote count, but his 727-vote margin falls within the state's mandatory recount law.

That law requires a recount any time the margin between the top two candidates is less than one-half of one percent."

source: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/11/05/minn_senate_race_very_close/

[kikiek]

86. Norm is saying Al could call it off. Which is true, but unbelievably dumb.

[gasperc]

43. Well, we need to help Franken now, and help him understand the issues

This is a teachable moment not the time to gripe about the what ifs and see I told you. Let's get the recount done right, let's help Franken fight this thing. Coleman's already out there trying to quash the recount. Franken needs to be on the TV box mocking Coleman's position. Franken needs to be forceful and we need to help him.

[zehnkatzen]

45. It's a valid point, if you want to savor the irony

Seriously, it's ironic. I loved Al's Air America show; I was a regular listener. But he didn't want to talk about this subject and Randi Rhodes was actually banned (according to her) from the air on Election day 2004 because she wanted to tell the world about the BS in Ohio.

Now, to have Al have to fight against voting machinery that smells is sad, ironic, and maybe wouldn't have been, if he and the Air America establishment circa 2004 had taken it all seriously.

[valerief]

48. Thanks, Brad, for being a pit bull in Chapstick over our country's vote thefts.

:yourock:

[glitch]

51. Al didn't believe the election system could be rigged, it would be sweet irony if he proved it

was rigged by the Republicans with a hand recount.

Take it all the way to forensic audits Al, you have invested too much of your own tima and money not to.

Do it for America.

[Love Bug]

54. Here's a copy of the MN recount guide

http://www.sos.state.mn.us/docs/recount_guide_2008.pdf

As a Minnesotan I have confidence in this process. Our Sec of State is a Democrat, so no worries about shenanigans from him. We've had automatic recounts before. However, this is how the process works and Coleman really needs to calm himself and work on his other problems, like his lawsuit.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

58. Thanks, Bug

As a fellow Minnesotan, I appreciate you posting this.

Franken needs our help and support. Part of that is correcting the media and other knobs spewing lies about the process here.

[Randomthought]

61. MN Secretary of State

Mark Ritchie worked tirelessly for a clean election in 2004 and foiled many of the then Secretary of State's attempts to suppress the vote. Mark Ritchie is one of the good guys and he will see that the recount is totally honest.

[HERVEPA]

62. Thanks. Very interesting to read.

[Vinnie From Indy]

55. "since his was the only show on Air America which never had me on as a guest"

LOL!

Your ability to inject yourself into this story is amusing. Got a little Bev Harris in ya huh? Do the right thing this holiday season and send Skinner a fruit basket for allowing you to use DU for all these years as a billboard for your web site and career.

[Shadoobie]

60. Bradblog has been at the forefront of this issue

For years, Bradblog has been at the forefront of the issue of voting irregularities. He has uncovered a lot information. The fact that he posts to DU just raises the profile of DU.

If I may don my tin foil hat now. :tinfoilhat:

I find it interesting that this race is so close. It was also considered a critical race to get the filibuster proof majority in the Senate. Since Al Franken has never really warmed up to the idea of rigging elections by controlling the voting machines, who better to actually rig the election? He might be considered the least likely candidate to ask for a recount. One might wonder given the ~13,000 vote difference between Obama and Franken in St. Louis County alone. Part of me wonders if Obama was "allowed" to win given the crappy state the US finds itself. By preventing the filibuster proof majority in the Senate, though, the next four years may be very difficult to get anything meaningful done. Obama will be blamed and someone else will "win" in 2012.

Tinfoil hat off.

Greg

[colsohlibgal]

59. Fingers Crossed

Hopefully the recount ends with Al on top. I don't blame Brad for making the point he has been making,the one thing that bugged me with Franken was his absolute refusal to tolerate any talk of voting fraud om his show - well he now may see the need to spread the word about potential malfeasance.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shadoobie]

66. Um...no

He visited my area twice and I heard no hate filled diatribes. Maybe you are referring to the commercial where his face seems contorted in anger and he is waving his finger. You know, the one where he is really just relating a story about himself and Paul Wellstone at a speech where Paul's son was right there in attendance.

Nice try.

Greg

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

85. I'm one of the "good folks of MN" and I say he does deserve to represent us.

Franken's a smart, hilarious individual who would serve our state with honor and pride.

(redacted. jumped the gun a bit.)

[ailsagirl]

71. IRONIC!! So true-- when Mark Crispin Miller was on Franken's

program the day after the 2004 stolen election, Franken kept dismissing him whenever Miller brought up the issue. Really ticked me off. It was downright rude. Well, now he knows.

Of course I hope he wins but he shouldn't be so quick to dismiss others-- he might even learn something.

[fascisthunter]

105. I Remember That Too...

it was the one thing that made me turn away from his show. I think powerful interests within the Democratic Party were to scared to touch this issue. Well, that's not a very good meesage to send to the public....

[goodhue]

72. There is nothing flawed about the optical scan machines here in MN

eom

[truedelphi]

79. And you know this because you have examined every

Modem signal, every line of code, and also monitered the people who found a reason or two to visit the cental tabulating machinery in all counties in MN on election night?

You have a right to an opinion, but is it not strange that the same counties that have ATM's that offer a receipt and are machines that remain not hackable with regards to banking records, do not have voting equipment that can offer the same protections?

[goodhue]

90. MN voting equipment leaves a paper trail

We have paper ballots statewide!

[truedelphi]

103. Yes, it is good to have a paper trail

But the paper ballots are usually inaccesible - unless as in Franken's case, the contested difference between the two candidates is quite small and triggers a mandated audit.

[nolabels]

101. When OPINION has irrefutable facts placed in front of it to prove something different..........

the opinion can die or turn into belief (ie. religion). The really strange thing is no matter how much evidence is placed in front of these believers, they still cling to their beliefs. It's hardwired that way and you will make more progress banging your head against the wall than trying to change the OPINION of one of these hardcore believers :banghead:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

94. You do know, don't you, that the problem is in the tabulating software?

Many Op-Scans in Minnesota, I have read, have GEMS tabulators, which are notorious for their hackability. We use ES&S Optech Eagles in my part of Wisconsin. Most people think we are safe because we use paper ballots. It is very sad and frustrating to have so many people close their minds to the reality that elections can and are being manipulated through electronic voting equipment.

[goodhue]

98. The county auditors tested the machines and software prior to election day

I think Franken has a decent shot in recount due to two sorts of human errors (on the part of voters and election judges), not any machine errors. I'm open minded but nonetheless seriously doubt there was any hacking of Minnesota machines.

[defendandprotect]

102. ...weren't there paper jams ...???

[defendandprotect]

74. Weird Al didn't "get" computer hacks/steals..???!!!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

96. No! He denied it was happening and refused to discuss it on the air.

[bullwinkle428]

80. Brad, correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that every paper ballot

that gets scanned optically is physically retained for a future recount, if necessary.

Here in Iowa, our excellent (D) Secretary of State, Michael Mauro, dumped all of the old touch screen machines used through 2006 in favor of 100% optical scan machines for this election. Surprise, surprise, Obama wins Iowa by nearly 10% vs. the razor-thin loss by Kerry in 2004...

Kudos to you, for all the work you do in the field of fair elections! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[goodhue]

91. Indeed, the statewide recount will involve physical examination of each paper ballot

The true count based on voter intent will be revealed. Since the margin is now down to 236 it is far from an academic exercise. If this happened in a state not in the upper midwest, it could be a problem.

[asksam]

83. One question... even with the paper backups...

... how do we know that the Rethugs aren't simply destroying paper ballots marked for Coleman?

We should just give the election to Franken and the HELL with what the ReThugs think.

[goodhue]

92. The city clerk and county auditors keep the ballots under lock and key

There is a statutory right to "guard" the ballots that the Coleman goons have been trying to exercise.

[asksam]

100. And how do we know....

... that the city clerk and auditors aren't Rethugs? We need to keep the ballots under OUR control!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

95. This is ironic...In 2004, Franken denied there was any manipulation of evoting systems

He eventually refused to discuss it on his radio program. I can't wait to find out the true results of this election...

[No Elephants]

97. I've often wondered what good it does to go to paper ballots if machines scan them anyway.

[goodhue]

99. Because during recount each ballot will be examined individually

Those marked such that machines cannot read will be aside and tabulated without use of machine.

[MNReformer]

104. Our MN SOS knows the flaws

He works closely with us "election integrity" activists--says Mark Crispin Miller is a friend. I personally communicate with him and have sent him every article on flaws and problems with our optiscan machines. Our state legislature wrote new laws for better chain of custody, audits, prohibition of electronic transmission of data, etc.

[dailykoff]

107. It is indeed ironic.

Hopefully he'll be less inclined to take Rahm's advice about what and what not to talk about in the future. Thanks for keeping up on this Brad!

K/Rec'd yesterday