Run On Guns As Owners Fear New Regulations

[DogPoundPup]

Source: CBS News

When 10-year-old Austin Smith heard Barack Obama had been elected president, he had one question: Does this mean I won't get a new gun for Christmas?

That brought his mother, the camouflage-clad Rachel Smith, to Bob Moates Sports Shop on Thursday, where she was picking out that special 20-gauge shotgun - one of at least five weapons she plans to buy before Obama takes office in January.

Like Smith, gun enthusiasts nationwide are stocking up on firearms out of fears that the combination of an Obama administration and a Democrat-dominated Congress will result in tough new gun laws.

"I think they're going to really try to crack down on guns and make it harder for people to try to purchase them," said Smith, 32, who taught all five of her children - ages 4 to 10 - to shoot because the family relies on game for food.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/07/politics/main4583754.shtml

---

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ORDagnabbit]

1. hey at least its good for the economy

[Avalux]

2. Someone's been listening to Rush Limbaugh, lol. n/t

[AlphaCentauri]

99. well, you know socialist are taking away our freedoms

:sarcasm:

[ryanmuegge]

149. Yet they aren't worried about the government listening to all of their phone calls and reading

their e-mails...

[DFW]

3. When they're all done hunting each other..........

The gun business will make General Motors look like an iPhone store the week before Christmas.

[Ian David]

5. Ooh... Apple should say Obama is going to ban iPhones! n/t

[semillama]

194. You hit at least one nail in this controversy on the head

I've always halfway suspected that the "Dems will take your GUNS!!!" meme was something constructed out of whole cloth by gun store owners to boost sales.

[Ian David]

4. They're gonna be selling those guns to buy heating oil soon. n/t

[FailureToCommunicate]

128. Naw, they'll use the gun to stop the oil truck before it gets

to their neighbors' house, or our house.

[davepc]

6. Obama does support reintroducing the Assault Weapons Ban

and S.2237 and H.R. 1022 are kicking around congress. I'm sure they'll come back next session.

Though I would hope President Obama doesn't make the same fatal mistakes Bill Clinton made.

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

http://change.gov/agenda/urbanpolicy/

[meow2u3]

60. Damn straight! Assault weapons belong on the battlefield

Not in the streets! BTW, who the hell would shoot a deer with an AK-47, besides Eddie Murphy in The Distinguished Gentleman?

edit: spelling

[DissedByBush]

81. I would agree

Except the military uses exactly ZERO of these "assault weapons," the big scary guns with really big magazines, on the battlefield.

They use the fully-automatic ones which no law-abiding civilian has on the streets anyway. Their ownership is already very highly restricted and isn't covered under the ban.

The people pushing the assault weapons bans depend on ignorance.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

95. Please educate yourself.

[One_Life_To_Give]

145. Assault Rifles belong on the Battlefield

Assault weapons are not the same thing.

[benEzra]

182. Ummm, they're ALREADY restricted to the battlefield...

The "assault weapon" bait-and-switch is about NON-automatic civilian rifles, not military automatic weapons. An actual AK-47 is a battlefield weapon; a non-automatic civilian AK lookalike is a purely civilian gun not used by any military on this planet. And yes, those are decent deer rifles, if a bit underpowered (they are comparable to .30-30 Winchester).

Hunting is irrelevant, though, because only 1 in 5 gun owners hunts. I'm a nonhunter, and I shoot my non-automatic AK recreationally and competitively (IPSC), and it also makes a fine defensive carbine.

[DissedByBush]

80. He had me until the end

He has my full support up until the childproof thing. Even then I might agree depending on what he means there.

Then he loses me on the "assault weapons" ban, and the absolutely idiot statement that they "belong on foreign battlefields." This is a standard tactic to confuse people. Sorry, the military isn't about to use a semi-automatic AR-15, or a Ruger .22 plinking rifle with a folding stock, over in Iraq. They're going to use an automatic-fire weapon that the ban doesn't even cover.

And don't let them fool you, the ban will cover hunting rifles. The last version introduced said any firearm "procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency" is assumed to be an assault weapon. This means the highly popular Remington 700 series bolt-action hunting rifles will likely be banned since they are widely used as military and law enforcement sniper rifles.

[mdmc]

176. Obama can't be anti Reminton 700 series , can he?

[DesertFlower]

7. that's what my hairdresser said yesterday.

"he's going to take away our guns". i told her that i own guns and that wasn't going to happen.

[glowing]

8. At least the gun shops are happy... Now, I know where to buy stock.

What a bunch of idiots. Obama is NOT going to take away their guns. One of the worst myths that has ever been spread on the internets.. and by the NRA.. Perhaps their membership was declining in the wake of tough economic times.

[gorfle]

72. You need to understand.

Obama is NOT going to take away their guns.

You need to understand. Taking away the guns I currently own and banning my purchase of any future firearms are both equally bad.

An Assault Weapon Ban may prompt me to vote Republican again even if no one intends to confiscate the one I currently own.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

9. Who the hell needs five guns?

I'm all for gun ownership, but really. Five? Is she fighting mutant zombies at night?

[NV Whino]

11. She preparing for the Darwin awards

Gettin' her kids ready, too.

[Recursion]

35. Really? Owning 5 guns means your genes need to be removed?

Can we get off the knee-jerk for a second?

I can think of plenty of reasons why a family would have more than 5 guns; the house I grew up in had like 12. It doesn't make them crazy survivalists. What's more, even if I couldn't think of a reason why I family would need 5 guns, that doesn't matter because it's none of my **** business if they do or not.

[NV Whino]

93. It's not the owning of 5 guns

It's what you do with the 5 guns. And her critical thinking skills leading her to the "Obama's gonna take away our guns" conclusion is what puts her in line for a Darwin award.

Personally, I don't give a flying fuck how many guns you own... as long as they are not assault weapons. Rifles and shotguns don't qualify as assault weapons.

[Recursion]

100. I don't think you know what "assault weapon" means

Except for a few pistols, all assault weapons are rifles and shotguns. If a rifle has modern stylings (pistol-style grip, threaded muzzle, flash suppressor, etc.) it is an assault weapon. If a shotgun has a pistol-style grip and can be fed from a magazine, it is an assault weapon.

You need to understand this fact if you want to "get" why people are worried about us taking their guns: it's because we tried to before. You probably can't imagine why anyone would oppose the assault weapons ban, and the answer is because you don't actually know what it did.

Why do you think someone shouldn't have a rifle with a safer, modern grip?

[qwlauren35]

138. I'm dumb, please educate me.

What is a rifle typically used for?

Why would a rifle need a magazine?

[Pavulon]

142. The Benelli R1 and Various Remington bolts use mags

they are easier to clean, load and unload that a top loading design circa 1890 or so. They cost big bucks aren't scary looking so no one should worry about them.

Only the scary ones need attention.

A rifle is designed to put a piece of metal on a target from 0 to 2000yds.

That's it.

[qwlauren35]

189. I looked at a few pictures.

I can understand the Bernelli R1. But the Bernelli R4 scares the crap out of me.

[slackmaster]

193. Is it the pistol grip that scares the crap out of you?

Or perhaps you stumbled on one that has a camouflage paint job.

It's just a shotgun.

[JonQ]

153. Oh it's easy to identify assualt weapons

they're those evil, scary looking guns. And being evil and scary looking makes them easily 10x more dangerous than regular guns.



:sarcasm:

[Edweird]

154. They paint them black for increased lethality ;)

[Paladin]

158. They Paint Them Black For Increased Sales... (n/t)

[Pavulon]

159. They come in hello kitty pink ..

and to think people want to ban these

[Edweird]

160. I know marketing terrifies you. I can only imagine what hearing "prescription strength" does to you

or seeing a motorcycle or car that has been painted factory racing schemes or "new and improved"......

[Paladin]

162. Could You Possibly Be Any More Pathetic? (n/t)

[Edweird]

163. Me, Pathetic? Project much? I'm not the one terrified of 'scary black guns' ooga-booga-boo!

You are. You are also the one substituting anger for rational discourse. That is, however, apparently the gun-grabber play book. Why let facts and truth get in the way of angry histrionics and lies.

[Paladin]

167. Pathetic. (n/t)

[Edweird]

169. Projection. Another perfect example. You lack facts so you resort to name calling.

That is super weak. But, then again, so is the gun-grabber argument.
Your hostility and anger do not make you right. It only highlights what I already know; that you have no argument other than "I'm afraid".

[DonP]

15. I do, for one

I have 2 different 12 ga. shotguns for skeet, trap and sporting clays.

Two others for field hunting, a 20 and a 12 guage.

One for Cowboy Action Shooting that doubles as a home defense weapon.

I also have a collection of WWII battle rifles that's up to about 12 now.

That doesn't include my target rifles for high power competition or my three .22 plinking rifles and target handguns either.

FWIW, for people involved in shooting sports it's no stranger than having different clubs in your golf bag to accomplish different types of shots.

It's not just right wingers at the range on the weekends. Lose the stereotypes. 51% of DU members, that responded to a recent survey, are gun owners.

[wolfgangmo]

61. I'm so liberal I only take left turns when I drive.

But I am also an expert rated marksman and my brother is a gun collector and gun smith. We both vote hard left.

Please don't stereotype. Yes, camouflage barbie was overreacting and likely getting gouged on the price due to the evil specter of not being able to buy an AK-47. I mean she is obviously reading challenged because they are only batting around the idea of an ASSAULT weapon ban and that is only a rumor and she is buying HUNTING guns. These dudes don't exactly hang out in the same gun rack, so to speak.

So yes, she is a moron , but that doesn't mean that a lot of us responsible liberal gun owners should be painted with a broad brush any more than poor people should be blamed for the economy falling apart.

[AlbertCat]

66. One for Cowboy Action Shooting that doubles as a home defense weapon.

hahahahahahahahaha!

Cowboy action & home defense.

And you're covered if your home is ambushed by skeet too! "No no Honey... don't shoot the burglar with the shot gun. That's for skeet, silly! Here, kill him with this one."

It's just like having kitchen gadgets, isn't it? One for dicing, one for slicing!

Or are you in a wild west show?

And how would a waiting period affect any of these purchases?

That's the thing.

I'm sorry but gun enthusiasts are a laugh a minute..... or they would be if they didn't have so many killing machines around.

Like in the original post... "new gun this year". What, did last year's go bad or something? Do you just throw them out instead of cleaning and maintaining them? Who the fuck needs a new gun every Christmas? And I still question who would WANT a new gun every Christmas. I don't care how they vote.

[beevul]

90. Things like this are what causes the problems the party has on the gun issue...

You go and get all offensive, even insulting:

"I'm sorry but gun enthusiasts are a laugh a minute..... or they would be if they didn't have so many killing machines around."

Heh:

"Or are you in a wild west show?"

What Is Cowboy Action Shooting?

Take the thrill of competitive shooting, mix it with the fun of historical reenactment and role playing, then wrap it with the alure of the old west, and you have Cowboy Action Shooting.
It is one of the fastest (if not the fastest) growing shooting sport in the world. It is well organized, safe, family oriented and is a good place to meet some really nice folks

http://www.leadbucket.com/whatitis.html


One should at least have a firm grasp on the subject matter before one ridicules someone else about said subject matter.

[FailureToCommunicate]

130. Sure, it's nobody's business HOW many guns you have till

your house is robbed. (It happens) THEN it becomes other people's
business, and problem.

"If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns." Oh wait, they already do.

85 people dead every day. 30,000 a year. That really is something for America to
proud of...

[ACTION BASTARD]

68. Gun owner right here and how many I have or "need" is no one's

business. This is a stupid issue that Dems always fall on the wrong side of every single time a Dem gets into office. I pray Obama gets it.

[Edweird]

45. That's the cool thing about our Rights. No justification or explanation is required.

I support the Bill Of Rights in its ENTIRETY.

[DissedByBush]

82. What don't you need five of?

Is there anything you have of which you may have more than the average person? Do you feel the need to explain yourself, or do you think you should just tell those who question your purchasing decisions to take a hike?

[hollowdweller]

87. Lots of people collect guns

So they have more than 5. I do and I'm a hardcore democrat.

I think most gun owners support things like background checks and any measures to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. They are all for limiting straw purchases, and making sure unbalanced people can't get them. After all those sort of people make all gun owners look bad.

Where there is opposition is when people percieve that that the gov't is going to restrict what they can buy, or make it harder to pursue their hobby when they are law abiding citizens. In my neck of the woods people shoot targets and tin cans for fun just like Obama shoots baskets.





















\

[saigon68]

157. oh goody

I can't wait to see CHUCK FUCK SCUMMER on the telly screaming his ass off about me and all my neighbors hunting deer in a couple of weeks.

He is totally worthless on this issue.

[primavera]

186. When was the last time someone was killed by a basketball?

Shooting hoops and shooting guns are not synonymous.

[Mojorabbit]

132. I have way more than five

All guns are not the same. I have favorites for target shooting and favorites for personal protection.
My husband has favorites for hunting turkey as he is mostly a bow hunter.

[benEzra]

183. Who the hell needs five or more golf clubs?

You can cover every aspect of the game with a 5-iron and a putter, right?

Same thing.

Between us, my wife and I own a couple of 9mm handguns, a couple of small-caliber carbines (aka "assault weapons"), and a couple of antique high-powered bolt-action rifles. So?

[primavera]

188. No one "needs" even one

The overwhelming majority of the earth's population manages to somehow go through their entire lives without ever having a gun. Having a gun is never "necessary;" it is always nonessential. Because many Americans enjoy playing with dangerous toys and feel better about that costly devotion when they can convince themselves that the benefits of their toys outweigh their frightful costs, they often assert that a gun is somehow "needed." But it takes a pretty biased perspective to be able to delude one's self enough to believe that.

[Zorra]

10. Uh-oh. There's gonna be a huge increase in RW wacko shootings of innocent people.

Both deliberate and accidental.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zorra]

31. Oh, Jim Adkisson is the most recent RW wacko shooter of innocent people

that comes to mind. You may be interested in trying a search engine known as "google". It's a great way to get information about RW wacko killers. Try googling "Timothy McVeigh", or "Terry Nichols". Sirhan Sirhan is another famous RW extremist shooter. He murdered the future of the US on June 5th, 1968.

Adkisson, a former private in the United States Army from 1974 to 1977, says that he was motivated by hatred of liberalism and by extension homosexuality.<7><8><9> According to a sworn affidavit by one of the officers who interviewed Adkisson on July 27, 2008:<10>

“ During the interview Adkisson stated that he had targeted the church because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets. Adkisson made statements that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them into office. Adkisson stated that he had held these beliefs for about the last ten years. ”

Additionally, one of Adkisson's former wives had been a member (in the 1990s) of the church where the attack occurred.<11>

Adkisson's letter also cited the inability to find a job, and that his food stamps were being cut. His letter stated that he intended to keep shooting until police arrived and expected to be killed by police. Adkisson had a waist satchel with more ammunition, totaling 76 shells of #4 shot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting

Happy Googling! Welcome to DU!

Enjoy your stay.

[doc03]

202. He used a shotgun and had 76 #4 shot shells, he didn't use

a so called assault weapon and he used standard hunting or target ammunition. So what's your justification for banning assault weapons. Define an assault weapon please?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchum]

38. Well, where's your response, you fucking freeper trash?

[Name removed]

42. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Orrex]

44. Well, name one RW non-wacko President, and we'll call it even

I'm waiting...

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Orrex]

58. LOL!

If you have to reach back 140 years to find a Republican worth mentioning, then you're a real fuck-wit for continuing to vote Repub.

Additionally, Lincoln hardly resembles the modern Republican, so you only get to claim him by a technicality.

Try again.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

51. James Earl Ray.

Next question.

[SalmonChantedEvening]

52. Arthur Bremmer.

[KamaAina]

56. James Kopp

shot Dr. Barnett Slepian to death in upstate NY for no other reason than that Dr. Slepian performed abortions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_Slepian

Barnett Slepian (October 21, 1946 – October 23, 1998) was a Jewish doctor in Amherst, New York in the United States who was shot and killed in his home by an anti-abortion supporter, James Charles Kopp.

On Friday, October 23, 1998, Slepian had returned from synagogue and was preparing soup in his kitchen when he was shot in the shoulder through a window. He died a few hours later. Kopp fled, but was arrested in France and extradited back to the US. He was tried and convicted of second-degree murder in Buffalo, New York and is currently serving a 25 years to life term of imprisonment.

Q.E.D.

[doc03]

203. Did he use what you think is an assault weapon? n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

96. Just like when the AWB ended right?

Oh wait that didn't happen.

David

[paparush]

12. I've got this checklist posted in my cube.

As NONE of the items get checked off, I want my right wing co-workers to be reminded that they were lied to for months.

[sellitman]

16. Gee , that list shows Obama for smaller government.

Isnt that what the knuckle dragging right wingnuts want?

[phigmeta]

19. can we just get a list of what he WILL do?

Cause i see moving away from his original list day by day

I just hope he respects ALL of the amendments i have listed them for you folks that only like to gripe about the ones you like.

1st Freedom of religion, of speech, of the press, to petition, and to assemble
BUSH and Clinton both screwed this one up ... and now the fairness doctrine is going after this as well.

2nd The right to keep and bear arms
Clinton, Reagan both screwed this one up - and the big O tried to in Chicago

3rd No quartering of soldiers in private houses during peace time
4th Interdiction of unreasonable Searches and seizures; warrants
You should look up the laws in ill. that Obahma supported -- seizure of arms was a part of the bill
And bush screwed this one up as well

5th Indictments; Due process; Self-incrimination; Double jeopardy, and rules for Eminent Domain.
Clinton and bush violated this

6th Right to a fair and speedy public trial, Notice of accusations, Confronting one's accuser, Subpoenas, Right to counsel
Damn you bush

7th Right to trial by jury in civil cases
Damn you bush

8th No excessive bail & fines or cruel & unusual punishment
Bush

9th Unenumerated rights
10th limits the power of the Federal government
Nationalization of industry is a DIRECT violation of this amendment - watch it folks because it already happened to the banks

[Thothmes]

59. Concerning the 10th Amendment

The way I read my copy of the Constitution, the 10th amendment states "powers not delegated to the United States by the Consitution, nor prohibited by it to the States are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Not sure your statement about Nationalization of indusry applies to this amendment.

[AlbertCat]

67. the whole 2nd

"2nd The right to keep and bear arms"

Don't leave out the militia thing....it's VERY important. Mentioned 1st I believe...and very clear.



Banning assault weapons and adding waiting periods is no infringement on anyone's rights. Another thing gun enthusiasts always neglect to mention.

[gorfle]

75. Let's take a look.

"2nd The right to keep and bear arms"

Don't leave out the militia thing....it's VERY important. Mentioned 1st I believe...and very clear.

Banning assault weapons and adding waiting periods is no infringement on anyone's rights. Another thing gun enthusiasts always neglect to mention.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Let's consider "the militia thing". It was the intent of our founders that there be no federal standing army. Instead, the States were to maintain their own militias, made up of citizens of the States and led by officers from those same States. The reasoning here was that if the federal government had no standing army it could not impose a tyranny upon The People. The State Militias were to eliminate, or at least counter, federal military power.

In 1903, with the passage of The Dick Act, the State Militias were federalized, creating the National Guard. The National Guard in no way serves the intent of the founders as a counter to federal military power. If fact, the National Guard is an adjunct to, and enhances, federal military power.

Thus the militas, as envisioned and intended by the founders, and as mentioned in the second amendment, no longer exist, and have not for over 100 years.

Nonetheless, the intent of the founders, the security of a free State through The People keeping and bearing arms, is still as valid today as it was when it was written - just like the rest of the Bill of Rights.

Furthermore, not only did the Dick Act set up provisions for the National Guard, it also established the "unorganized militia", consisting of all able-bodied men aged 17-45.

Finally, with the latest Supreme Court ruling, Heller has decided that the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right irrespective of militia membership.

Now let us consider assault weapons. The intent of the founders was for The People to act as a counter to federal military power. To do this, it is logical that they should be equipped with similar small arms as one might find in the hands of common soldiers in the federal army. This would make civilian versions of army small arms the ideal weapon for the job the founders had in mind. Banning such weapons would directly infringe upon the ownership of precisely the kind of arms the founders intended The People to keep and bear.

[DrCory]

102. You Haven't Been Keeping Up With Current Events,

Have you? The Supreme Court has ruled that the RKBA extends beyond the context of militia service.

[primavera]

195. i.e., the five right-wing justices headed by Tony Scalia...

... ruled that the framers were on crack when they included the militia language for evidently no reason whatsoever. The liberal justices, of course, sought to assert sanity in this divided ruling, but were overruled by the wingnuts. Thank George Bush for stacking your Supreme Court.

[Edweird]

112. Yeah, and David Koresh convinced parents the bible said he

should sleep with their underage daughters. Just because you imagine it or gun guys or some other gun grabber says it, doesn't make it TRUE.

[doc03]

204. What is an assault weapon?

[phigmeta]

21. I use the bill of rights as my checklist ....

and watched bush and Clinton both violate it in their terms

[gorfle]

73. Taking guns away?

I doubt very many people believe that the government is going to actively confiscate guns any time soon.

Many believe that we will soon see a BAN on the future sale of certain kinds of firearms, however, and this is just as bad. It is, after all, part of the Party platform.

I hope Obama considers he has bigger fish to fry than firearm bans.

[paparush]

77. You clearly listened to NO right-wing radio then. Every other breath was about how Obama

was coming to confiscate your guns.

It was absurdly sickening; the scope and depth of the lies perpetrated on, and by, the Right Wing.

[paparush]

76. You People are Missing the IRONY. I KNOW Obama isn't going to do ANY of these things

That's the whole point. The check list remains UNCHECKED. Permanently. Thus, my brain washed co-workers come to see that they were brainwashed.

[DissedByBush]

83. You might have to check the first one

He has that in his platform.

But I'd hate to meet the right-wing raving looney who thought up the rest of the lines.

[grytpype]

13. He's going to take away our Bibles too!! ROFL

Start buying Bibles by the truckload before he bans them!


:rofl:

[gratuitous]

14. Glad to see the word "fear" made it into the headline

Because that's about all that's driving some folks anymore.

[customerserviceguy]

127. There are a lot of folks out in Jesusland

that are just recovering from the shock of what happened Tuesday. I expect them to act as though the worst is coming, their leaders have been warning them about it.

I guess the only cure for them will be reality.

[Lugnut]

18. Dingalings.

It's scary how stupid some gun owners are.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ret5hd]

27. It must really really hurt...

Have you been practicing saying "President Obama" yet?

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frylock]

28. are you even capable of rational thought?

enjoy your stay, smegma.

[FarLeftRage]

29. You sure you belong here?

How do you like your pizza?

[KitchenWitch]

36. You have become tedious and dull.

Now we dance.

[tjwash]

37. ...

[mitchum]

40. Fuck off, freeper trash

[mitchum]

41. Fuck off, freeper trash

[Orrex]

46. I call bullshit

I don't believe that you were "thinking" about anything.

[Robb]

20. "Camouflage-clad"

How nature identifies an idiot. And I say that as a deer-and-elk-eatin' dingbat.

If you're not on your way to, or coming from, hunting, that day, you're only fading your camo.

Similarly, Formula 1 drivers, hockey players and astronauts do not wear their get-ups to Bob's Sports Shop. :D

[sasquatch]

101. Truth

[Mithreal]

22. Tough new gun laws, not stoking fear and hatred?

I want to stock up on guns and ammo and not because of new more restrictive gun laws.

[katandmoon]

24. I truly don't think there is anybody stupider than gun nuts.

[Recursion]

33. A lot of the country finds knee-jerk reactions to gun ownership stupid

Hell, people on this very thread are assuming she's crazy for wanting 5 guns and for getting her kid involved in shooting. Sigh. I know my party doesn't hate guns. I just worry that too many of us hate the people who own them.

[razors edge]

69. The people who have strong anti gun feelings

are a small part of the left. I would guess about the same percentage of strong anti abortion folks on the right are stirring up both issues.

I got a few collectors items, but freaking out over Obama taking our guns is stupid.

Besides, who is going to enforce a gun ban, these brilliant folks?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

97. Just the people that try and ban them because they look scary.

[olddad56]

25. screw the 20 gauge, get junior an Uzi so he can keep up with the kids at school.

[geckosfeet]

26. Fear runs thier lives, from guns to money to food to gas to religion.

[Gadzooks1]

30. I don't know what these people are afraid of, but I don't really

think it's new, prohibitive gun laws. The Bush administration has taught Americans to be afraid of everything, and people think they can kill that fear with guns. The increase in gun ownership, particularly handguns, will in all likelihood lead to an increase in gun violence. This will give these stupid, frightened people a self-fulfilling prophecy. Too bad.

[Recursion]

34. HR 1022, mostly

It's a lot, lot worse than the 94 AWB, which was mostly just silly to begin with.

The AWB was a political golden goose, though. For example, I guarantee that 90% of the people on this thread think the AWB banned machine guns like Uzi's and AK-47's. I believe in the Democratic party, but the simple fact is they've used your ignorance about firearms for political gain.

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

43. This just in: Obama's reintroducing prohibition and a ban on all tobacco products

Gun Lobby ploy - Plant the seed of fear and people will run out and buy, even in tought times.

[zanne]

48. There are MORE THAN 100 PRO-GUN WEBSITES OUT THERE...

BUT THE GUN NUTS HAVE TO COME HERE? I GUESS THEY HAVEN'T SPREAD THEIR DISEASE AROUND ENOUGH.

[Edweird]

55. What you don't get is that Dems own guns, too. Even those black scary ones that terrify you so much.

I suspect that a large part of your bitterness stems from the realization that your position is generally unpopular and no amount of bullying on your part will ever change that.

[zanne]

105. You seem to be living in a little world of your own.

Most Democrats advocate stricter gun control laws. But, like my mother told me, I should never argue with crazy people.

[Edweird]

106. You are confused. Many here on DU own guns. 51% according to a poll a while back.

If it seems as though I am living in my own little world to you, it is because you lack the ability to comprehend what you see. Just remember 1994. I would hate to see Obama commit that kind of political suicide.

Furthermore, this nation has over 200 MILLION privately owned firearms. It is statistically impossible for there to not be a large number of Dem gun owners.

Your vitriol does not change reality.

[zanne]

118. Ah, yes. I remember that ONE poll....

It has since been repudiated a dozen times, but I'm sure that doesn't matter to you. I do have something to admit to here, though. The hopes we had for a more civilized country with strict gun control is useless now. You have won. It's over. Every day, the newspapers will be filled with gun accidents, children being shot, husbands shooting wives, maniacs shooting up groups of people, etc. Congratulations. You have the world you wanted.

[Edweird]

121. Strict gun control only affects people that obey the law. A murderer DOESN'T CARE.

We live in a country with an incredibly and uncontrollably porous border. You would have to be incomprehensibly naive to believe that 'strict gun control' would keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

But, just for the sake of argument, lets say it did. In England the murder rate is still increasing at the same rate as before the gun ban. The criminals simply switched to knives. Dead is dead, whether you were shot with a gun or stabbed or choked to death.

[zanne]

122. IT'S TOO LATE, EDWEIRD. You share the responsibility. nt

[Edweird]

124. I share the responsibility for?

You may have gone from just generally nasty and hateful to legitimately insane.....

(Which is too bad. I typically enjoy a challenging exchange of ideas and viewpoints. However, interacting with you is universally unpleasant due to your awful attitude and readiness to substitute insults for facts.)

[flashback]

177. I'm a responsible gun-owning lefty and I resent your

crazy rantings. Really. Owning firearms does not make one violent, or a wingnut. If you think the whole country should be free of firearms, you really should "move ta rusha ya librul!" I know. But you really should think about welcoming reality into your life.

[Paladin]

107. The Fact That Some Guns Are Black And Scary.....

....is precisely the reason that people like you fork over a bunch of cash to own as many of them as possible.

And it isn't the guns that are terrifying---it's imagining what sort of person deems things like a bayonet lug and a 30-round magazine to be essential parts of a firearm....

[Edweird]

111. "people like you" My my, so full of hate. I suppose the congnitive dissonance

caused by contradictory thought processes may do that to you. You support an unpopular position. Even many here on DU own firearms. A MAJORITY according to one poll. Your hostility and insults do not make you right.

[Paladin]

116. No Hatred, Just Fact

The "scary"looking features of assault-style weapons are a primary selling point. And that's not my fevered imagination at work---look at the overheated ads in current gun magazines. If the word "tactical" is mentioned in the ads, it's a final sale.

And by the way, I'm one of those Democrats who owns guns. And owning a gun is vastly different from peddling the right-wing gun militancy agenda like you're doing here. An obvious distinction that people like you do their best to obscure....

[Edweird]

119. Again with the 'people like you' nonsense.

I have zero interest in any 'RW' agenda, thank you very much.
I AM however, a member of the Left that also happens to be a gun owner. I do my best to stand up and be heard.

If the word 'tactical' results in higher sales, so fucking what?
I personally find the word overused and mis-applied quite often. At a local gun shop I used to patronize there was a salesman there that always pushed 'tactical'. My wife used to call him "Mr. tactical". It has become a big joke.

If you are a gun owner as you claim to be, why would a bayonet lug or pistol grip instill such fear in you?

[hollowdweller]

129. I can agree with you on the selling point thing

I have one or two guns that might be classed as assault rifles under the old criteria of the AWB. They are military guns that I collect.

However the civilian knock offs of the AK47, M16 and other commercially produced rifles that look like military rifles don't have any appeal to be because they don't have any history.

I think with those guns people see them in movies or on TV or whatever and are smitten and go buy one. Even though most of them don't shoot as good as some others. I don't think they should be banned really, because not that many are really being used in crime and if we ban them then the next thing is banning pistols which are used a lot in crime, but I think those should be legal.

For shooting fun I'd rather have some good gun that shoots really well and I can shoot really tight groups with. Not some copy of a military weapon. Also I find that when I shoot using big clips that hold a lot of ammo I tend to shoot faster and concentrate on my technique less.

When I was a kid there really werent' many commercially produced knockoffs of military semi autos. But as the shooting demographic has changed from hunting to target shooting and collecting more have been made to fill the market.

Interestingly the previous Cowboy Action Shooting that was mentioned has people starting to buy guns patterned after Old West guns, so if that really catches on maybe the whole black gun thing will die off due to lack of demand rather than law which would surely involve the democrats getting booted out of congress and the possiblity of another Bushco.

[Paladin]

133. Well Stated, hollowdweller

I walked away from the shooting sports years ago because of all the right wing assholes I had to associate with. And my continued non-participation is assured by the more recent popularity of assault rifle replicas. You're right in crediting TV and movies with this trend; add video games to the mix, as well, along with gun manufacturers who rightfully see hunting as a dying avocation. Gun ownership is becoming dramatically more militarized, while at the same time becoming more juvenile in nature---a very bad combination. Anyone who doubts this needs to go to a big gun show and stake out a couple of tables: one full of Belgian-made Browning shotguns, and one with a bunch of AK-47 knock-offs on display. Watch the sort of people who turn up at each table and draw your own conclusions.....

[hollowdweller]

165. Good Term "Militarized"

That's exactly what is happening in the gun market. But in some ways it's sort of a reflection of what is going on. When was the last time you saw anyone go shooting or hunting in a movie? Also as a society we have become really bad about glorifying the military and war and not any other aspects of our culture.

Then part of that whole trend could also be shrinking amount of places to hunt or go shooting and the attitude of some schools and other organizations that marksmanship and gun safety should not be taught. So when people who have no history of rural living get a gun the only model they have to go on is the military one.

[zanne]

120. Ah...Here comes that ONE poll again.

The poll that was taken after you'd contacted your gun-loving friends about to make sure they voted. Ah yes.. The ONE poll that has since been proven wrong dozens of times on DU. If you can't face the facts, you'll invent your own. Nothing new here. A certain political party in this country has been doing that for decades.

[Edweird]

126. Reading your replies is like watching a dog lick a 9 volt battery.

You are in such deep denial about gun ownership on the left it is tragicomic. That poll is but one of MANY indicators that you are mistaken. The sheer number of firearms in this country alone makes it impossible for Dems not be owners. Remember 1994? Then you are whining that "There are MORE THAN 100 PRO-GUN WEBSITES OUT THERE...

BUT THE GUN NUTS HAVE TO COME HERE?"

I can't speak for other posters, but I am here because I am a Dem. I also happen to own guns and find your assertions to be arrogant and dishonest. There are a significant number of gun owning Dems, which you continue to deny. You maintain that your position is the position of the majority of the Left DESPITE ALL EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.

[DrCory]

103. So, In You Opinion...

All who post here in favor of the RKBA are "nuts"?

"BUT THE GUN NUTS HAVE TO COME HERE? I GUESS THEY HAVEN'T SPREAD THEIR DISEASE AROUND ENOUGH."

[Edweird]

108. You don't know her yet, obviously. The short answer is 'yes'.

She is a rabid gun grabber and (comically) absolutely confident she is in the majority.

[benEzra]

184. Half of gun owners are Dems and indies. Get that through your head.

Even here on DU, there is a high rate of lawful and responsible gun ownership. The vast majority of us are nonhunters.

[NMDemDist2]

50. I stopped by our local "Sporting Goods and Pawn" shop yesterday

and the place was hopping.

two different clerks were on the phone calling in sales to the regulatory place and there were 4-5 other guys looking at new guns.

At first I thought it was cuz deer hunting season is starting then realized they were mostly buying pistols :scared:

I have NEVER seen more than one other customer in that shop before.

:cry:

(I go in to look at pawned jewelry)

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

53. What's the big rush on getting AK-47?

:hide:












Since it takes ONE bullet to kill, I guess AK-47 users can't aim very good. :dunce:

[DissedByBush]

85. Actually, you are correct

The AK-47 (which BTW no law abiding citizen in America is buying anyway), has notoriously poor accuracy. Most of their civilian semi-automatic counterparts (which people are buying) usually aren't all that accurate either.

[derby378]

173. I call bullshit on that

I have fired AK rifles in the past. An AR-15 may boast pinpoint accuracy, but a 7.62x39mm AK is more than accurate enough to get the job done. If the 7.62 version of an AK isn't accurate enough for you, then you should consider an AK-74, which fires a 5.45x39mm round with overall greater accuracy and range than its 7.62 cousin.

Part of the appeal of the AK is that it is arguably the most durable, rugged, and reliable rifle design ever produced. An AK will shoot whether immersed in water, covered in mud, filled with sand, or even run over by a truck. During the Vietnam conflict, one US commander dug up an AK-47 that was buried by the Viet Cong in a rice paddy for at least a month. "Stand back," he told the onlookers, "I want to show you how a real infantry rifle works." Without bothering to clean the AK, the officer shook off some of the excess rifle, kicked the charging handle to dislodge a little more mud, loaded a round into the chamber, and fired. The AK worked perfectly. Just try that wth any rifle or carbine from the AR series, even the M4 carbines currently deployed in Iraq.

There is no such thing as an indestructible rifle. An AK needs to be cleaned and lubed just like any other rifle. Its barrel should be protected from rust and corrosion like any other rifle. But pound for pound, an AK can take more adversity than any other rifle and still perform admirably. That sums up why so many Americans have embraced Kalashnikov's design over the AR-15.

[wartrace]

185. Derby, the AK is less accurate.

If you look at where the weapons sights are you will see that the rear sight is well forward on the rifle. Look at the Israeli Galil and you will see they moved the rear sight further back. Same basic rifle but the Galil is much more accurate.

Personally I wouldn't own either, wouldn't own an ar-15 for that matter. Make mine an M1a or M1 Garand.

[derby378]

192. I can respect that

The Kalashnikov family of rifles is not as accurate as the Stoner family, but I've fired the MAK-90 and Tantal and have been pleased with the results from both, with a nod towards the Tantal - the smaller caliber of the Tantal allows for higher muzzle velocity, improved range, and accuracy superior to that of its 7.62 cousins.

I can't say anything bad about the M1. Have yet to fire one, but it looks like a real joy to shoot.

[wartrace]

196. You need to try one.

Seriously. I favor the M1 Garand, it is a nice rifle.

[onehandle]

54. Make no mistake, we will get your guns.

And make you gay marry.

[superconnected]

63. rofl rofl rofl!

We should create the republican socialist nightmare they so want to happen just to say they warned America - first we take all their income and share it with the poor, then tear down the Christian churches and force everyone be Muslim, and don't foget we must give terrorists H1 visas and do world-wide ads to welcome them to our country.

We should also make abortion free and teach gay marriage classes to kindergarteners.

[liberal N proud]

57. Oh the Democrats are in power, the sky is falling they will take our guns

I hate these stupid fuckers who actually believe this shit and I hate the fuckers who are creating the propaganda that the Democrats will take your guns away.

I hope they all shoot themselves, they deserve it for being so fucking stupid.

[derby378]

174. Then Obama shouldn't have declared as much on his campaign website

:shrug:

[madrchsod]

62. won`t they be surprised when he does`t....

these guys really are to stupid to own a gun

[llmart]

70. No they won't.....

Come on. We have heard this tired, old crapola for years now. First it was that Clinton was going to take their guns away. And then Gore was going to take their guns away. And Kerry was going to take their guns away. They still have their stupid guns but they don't have a real thought process among them. They listen to their NRA propaganda and they're not smart enough to reason for themselves.

[benld74]

64. Yup spend yur money now fur those guns that you'll be,,,

selling to pawn shops later when you needs the money you idiots!

[liberal renegade]

65. 7 freepers in one thread

sent to the bone yard. thats funny.

[unkachuck]

71. relax....

"I think they're going to really try to crack down on guns..."

....if there's one group the Dems WON'T mess with, it'll be gun owners and hunters, period....we've learned the lesson the Good Doctor has taught....you will be pleasantly surprised and may even consider voting Democratic next time....

....now, if you want use the 'Dems will be taking our guns away' as an excuse to the old lady to buy a few extra toys, I understand completely....

[zelta gaisma]

74. they do this...

every time a Dem take any office... "hide your guns!!!" well the guns are still RIGHT where they hid them AIN'T THEY?!
*morons*

[StarryNite]

78. Kids and guns

What kind of moron gives guns to little kids?


Boy, 8, arrested in double homicide in St. Johns

by Dennis Wagner - Nov. 7, 2008 02:35 PM
The Arizona Republic

An 8-year-old boy in the rural community of St. Johns may face double-murder charges in the shooting death of his father and another man at the family residence, according to Police Chief Roy Melnick.

The child is being held in juvenile custody for a hearing Friday afternoon in Apache County Justice Court. His 29-year-old father, whose name is being withheld by The Arizona Republic to avoid identifying the boy, and a boarder at their home, Tim Romans, 39, were found dead at the family residence Wednesday shortly after neighbors reported the sound of gunfire, Melnick said.

The White Mountain Independent newspaper described the slayings as “a shocking tragedy” that rocked the eastern Arizona town of about 3,800 people.

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2008/11/07/20081107double-homicide1107-ON-CP.html

The local news said the 8 year old was using his own gun.

[DissedByBush]

113. Because it's safe

Seriously. Gun sports are one of the safest activities a kid can do. There are far fewer injuries than football, hockey, etc. And any kid with eyesight and working arms can do it. You don't need to be big, fast, tall, strong, or even have the ability to walk as with the other sports.

But the catch is that responsible people don't just let kids have guns. They are always under the control of the adult, just the kid is shooting it, supervised, at the range. The bolt for my daughter's rifle is locked away and only goes back in at the range.

Find me a kid who both competition shoots and has gone on a shooting spree, killing people. Good luck.

[StarryNite]

123. That's a whole different ballgame

Teaching a kid to shoot and just handing him the gun to go "play" with are two different things. The little 8 year old obviously had access to his gun. And while kids can learn to shoot and actually hit targets, having the mental and emotional judgment of an adult is still going to be lacking. Heck, a lot of adults don't have the good judgment or there wouldn't be so many accidental shootings.

[DissedByBush]

144. It's a crime in my state

To allow a minor unsupervised access to a gun. Almost all of the tragic instances you hear about with kids and guns are illegal under current law even before the kid pulls the trigger. Even the VT shooter fell through a hole in the system, since his known psychological problems that the university didn't share would have made his purchase of the guns illegal. Numerous gun laws were broken in Columbine, and two people went to jail for it.

BTW, a bit of trivia on Columbine, Harris had a 9mm with 10-round magazines (not classified as an assault weapon), while Klebold had a 9mm with very high-capacity magazines (classified by name as an assault weapon). But Harris fired almost twice the rounds that Klebold did. So exactly how is the 10-round limit supposed to make anything safer?

One last thing is a procedure I would like to see. There should be a connection between the purchase checks to the local law enforcement. Someone who tries to buy a gun but is legally not allowed to should be seeing the local sheriff before he leaves that store.

[doc03]

205. And it wasn't an assault weapon either, so what's the

point of the AWB?

[wartrace]

79. People are stocking up on so called "Assault weapons".

There will be a reinstatement of the lapsed "assualt weapons ban". It has already been stated by Mr. Obama that he would reinstate the law. Unfortunatly nobody is addressing the "murder guns". There are no plans to ban handguns which are used by criminals to commit over 85% of the gun homicides. Rifles of ANY type (including "assualt weapons") are used by criminals in only 3% of homicides.

It isn't because these guns are causing carnage in the streets, it is a "feel good" gun law that give people an added perception of safety. Meanwhile criminals will continue to kill using handguns.

While I will support President Obama in most every other issue I can not support the renewal of the assault weapons ban. It did nothing the last time & will do nothing this time around. I own several of the rifles that will be banned including; an M1a, an M1 garand and a 1903 Springfield. They are all former military rifles, they would all be banned by the new legislation.

What makes me upset is that people who are not familiar with these types of weapons are buying them just because they will be banned. An artificial "bubble" has been created in the "assault weapons" market. Most distributors are sold out of the AK-47 "type" rifle (semi-automatic versions-not the genuine AK-47), same thing with the AR-15 (semi-automatic version of the military m-16). I sure hope these new owners read the manual or at least look at the pictures before they load the things.

I would suggest we increase penalties for the USE of a firearm during the commission of a crime rather than violate the peoples second amendment right to own a particular weapon.

I know my opinion is "unpopular" here but I want SOMEONE tell me WHY the "assault weapons ban" is so important yet we ignore the firearms used in the majority of murders? Tell me why criminals caught with guns aren't deterred by the laws we already have in place?

[DissedByBush]

84. Three types of laws

1. Laws honestly meant to fix things

2. Laws bought by special interest groups

3. Laws that are useless but make it look like the government is doing something

The "Scary Guns Ban" satisfied numbers 2 and 3. Number 3 is usually what happens when number 1 is too difficult.

[wartrace]

86. It IS the easiest law to pass.

Bush was ready to sign it given the chance. Feels good- does nothing.

[hollowdweller]

88. I just don't see them renewing the AWB

Most people I know that have guns (including me) didn't really mind the Background check thing. As much as I enjoy going to a gun show and buying without paperwork I wouldn't mind seeing background checks be mandatory for gun show purchases. Also wouldn't mind seeing the whole instant check thing tweaked so nobody slipped thru the cracks.

However most people I know that own guns hated the AWB. I know folks who even changed their registration and voted GOP after that. That is because they saw it as #1 a restriction of their freedom to buy what they wanted and pursue their hobby, and #2 a first step toward a banning even more later.

The last time the AWB passed we lost congress. Now we have all these pro gun members of the senate and house like Tester and Webb and Warner. Governors in Mt WV etc.

Now that the dems actually have got a majority I think there will be more use of it to save social security, bring the troops home, move to alternative energy, ban permenent replacement workers in labor disputes. I can't see them passing anything and losing the majority again before they enact any of their agenda.

After the VT shootings if the congress had thought any gun control was a good idea you would have seen it then. You might see some movement on improving the check system and money to law enforcement to crack down on illegal sales, but I don't see them banning any classes of weapons.

[DissedByBush]

91. I hope you are right

But I am going on the attempt to reintroduce it last year and Obama's pledge to make it permanent. Then again, politicians rarely do everything they say they will do.

[Paladin]

104. How About Pulling Your Head Out Of Your Ass?

President Obama is going to have just a few other things to deal with during his years in office, things that are a lot more important than taking your precious guns away. I know you gun obsessives are unable to function without this drooling level of paranoia, but it's really tiresome for the rest of us....

[Edweird]

109. All of these "gun sales are up" OPs are by gun grabbers.

Correct your own cranial-rectal disorder, first.

[Paladin]

117. How About Addressing The Point I Made?

Why don't you enlighten us as to why Obama is going to snatch your guns away? I say that notion is pure bullshit---tell me why I'm wrong.....

[Edweird]

125. Please find where I asserted any such thing. (Hint: I didn't)

"I know you gun obsessives are unable to function without this drooling level of paranoia, but it's really tiresome for the rest of us...."

Again, it's the gun grabbers posting these OP's. I and other gun owning members of the left are posting in these threads as well. If you find a differing viewpoint 'tiresome' the internet may not be right for you.

[Paladin]

134. I've Been Kicking Gun Nut Ass On DU Since 2001

I don't think I'll be departing any time soon, thank you very much. And you're still dodging the issue....

[Edweird]

135. "Why don't you enlighten us as to why Obama is going to snatch your guns away?"

Is that the issue you are referring to? I said no such thing. Hence there is no issue. If you insist that there is, please cite. Otherwise you are attributing statements to me that are not correct.

If you are referring to some OTHER issue, I will address it, but you're gonna have to remind me what the 'issue' is....


"I've Been Kicking Gun Nut Ass On DU Since 2001"
:eyes:
A legend in your own mind, I'm sure.

Well, I'm a Democrat. A gun owning, red meat eating, blue collar, 4X4 owning Democrat. I'm not going anywhere either.

[wartrace]

140. Addressing the point you made.

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

source;
http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/#crim...

[wartrace]

137. Bless your heart Paladin, you always seem full of rage.

Perhaps that explains your view on guns. :rofl: I am trying to have a civil discussion about guns and you just HAVE to post that drivel.

[Paladin]

147. I Got Your Civil, Right Here

How about this for a civil point: you gun obsessives need to get the fuck over yourselves. Despite your feverish efforts, guns turned out to mean exactly dick in this election. Nothing. Nada. Zero. And the Sunday papers are awash in the truly critical matters that the Obama administration has to deal with, and will be dealing with for the next eight years: the economy, Iraq, energy, education, the environment, science. Guns don't merit so much as a word. Barack Obama is going to be so occupied with cleaning up the cesspool that Dim Son is leaving behind that there's absolutely no chance whatsoever he'll be coming after your firearms. Those people who are crowding into the gun shops are idiots, plain and simple. So why don't you and your gun-hugging buddies go out to the the range and make sure your scopes are sighted in, run some Hoppes No. 9 patches through a couple of bores, reload a few rounds, hell, do something really life-changing like posting to a few non-gun-related threads here at DU. Enjoy your well-deserved obscurity.....

[wartrace]

148. You are consistent, I will grant you that.

Your choice of words says a lot about you. You can't post a simple message without using vulgar language. It really is a shame.

[Paladin]

150. If You Go All Weak-Kneed Over A Few Curse Words......

....I wonder what your reaction would be to the death threats my family and I have received over the years from people on your side of the issue.

Are you going to respond to my comments, or are you just going to moan about my choice of words?

[wartrace]

151. The words you use say everything......

As I have already addressed your "point" in post 140 and you have failed to look at it I will repeat it here.

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

source;
http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/#crim ...

A few idiots who type death threats does not excuse vulgar language. Have I ever threatened you? I believe you have a right to express your opinion which is just as valid as my own opinion. I would never threaten anyone who exercises their first amendment right to free speech. The problem we have is that you have no qualms about revoking peoples second amendment rights.

No, I do not believe guns will be confiscated unless we ALSO do away with the fourth amendment. The fact that certain firearms will be banned is, in my opinion an infringement on the right to keep & bear arms. That is my personal opinion like it or not.

People who are rushing out to buy before a ban is enacted are not doing anything wrong. They perceive that the types of firearms they want will not be available in the future. There is convincing evidence from the above policy statement that they are correct. Are they "fools" for rushing out & buying them right now? Only in the respect that they should have bought two years ago when prices weren't inflated by the impending ban.

[Paladin]

152. OK, Let's Close This Out.

The fact that you take such umbrage at a few foul words, in the context of a discussion of gun rights, is just mind-blowing, almost comical. How long have you been at this? How do you come upon the attitude that a topic as emotional and divisive as firearms policy is conducive to drawing room gentility? Your attitude about this says a lot more about you than my swearing does about me. I'd advise you to toughen up and damned soon, if you wish to be taken seriously in this battle.

And kindly don't saddle me with this anti-Second Amendment trash, OK? I have over 4000 posts here at DU, in which I have repeatedly made it clear that I am a gun owner and that I am not for the wholesale destruction of the 2nd. What I am for is rigorous measures to keep guns out of the hands of at least some of the nut cases in this country. Not even Fat Tony Scalia in his Heller decision denied that firearms restrictions are permissible. Pop quiz time: Does having Barack Obama in the White House make such restrictions more or less necessary? Go visit the closest gun store in your area, listen in on a few conversations, and I think the answer will be pretty clear.

And yes, those people at the gun stores are fools, in a sad sort of way. They're blowing money on guns, and that money is probably needed in many instances for fuel oil, groceries, medicine and children's clothing. And they're doing it for no good reason whatsoever. They're burdened by the twisted, anti-Democratic paranoia that the gun militancy movement has been spreading for decades in this country. The sort of paranoia that people like you are spreading to this very day.

If you want to cower in fear of the new administration, just go right ahead. The rest of us are going to rejoice in it. It's your loss......

[wartrace]

155. Foul language does not show "toughness", it is ignorance.

You have over 4000 posts here? I have posted well over 7000 times if you count my previous user name (WCross), I am sure you remember a few "debates" we have had in the past.

I am not "cowering in fear", I voted for Obama/Biden. I just disagree with this particular policy. Apparently people feel this may be their last chance to buy these types of firearms. There is evidence in the stated policy that they may be right. The only thing that this law will do is cause a huge spike in sales of this type of gun before it is enacted. I personally am not buying any, I have no need for any more.

I just don't understand why it is a priority to ban "assault weapons" when 85% of gun homicides are committed by criminals using handguns. It will do nothing to address criminal gun homicides.

[Paladin]

161. Oh, I Remember WCross Quite Well

And WCross in his present embodiment has absolutely no standing whatsoever to pull this Little Lord Fauntleroy act about language. You know what RKBA arguments are like, so don't act like a dewey-eyed newcomer when the terminology turns a little blue.

And for the last time, there is no priority to ban "assault weapons" (whatever this week's definition of them is). You can cherry-pick Obama's and Biden's prior quotes all you want, but the gun ban you're fantasizing about (and, I suspect, fervently hoping for) isn't going to happen. There are a hundred more important things to be dealt with in the next eight years and beyond. Like I said earlier, you gun guys have a ridiculously inflated idea of how important you and your issues are at this point in time. All those horror stories you were gleefully telling one another about how gun policy would be Obama/Biden's downfall turned out to be a load of crap. That's the reality of the current situation. You ought to be happy about it, and it's a measure of your ideological poisoning that you're not. Pretty sad....

[wartrace]

164. I didn't appreciate the language back then either.

No, I am not "shocked" at all by the language, I just don't believe it is necessary to make your point. It just tells me the person posting it has very little self control.

No, the gun issue didn't even hit the radar screen in this election. I guess when you are on the verge of a depression & after five years of an illegal war people aren't as concerned about gun bans.

Now, explain why there is a rush to buy guns right now? People have the impression that with the new administration we will see a new gun ban. I tend to think they are correct, the bill is already before congress. You claim it won't happen & I believe it will. There is absolutely nothing I can do about the future however I CAN voice my displeasure with the policy.

[Paladin]

166. You Get The Last Word On This. Have A Swell Life. (n/t)

[primavera]

187. Bravo

Now that's an eloquent response. :applause:

[Paladin]

191. Thankee Kindly..... (n/t)

[wartrace]

200. I found it boorish & juvenile myself.

You do not need to make an ass out of yourself to discuss an issue online.

[not fooled]

89. Dear Freepers and Ignorant Gun-tards

President-Elect Obama is not going to take away your guns.

You were LIED TO in order to scare you into voting for Republicans. When you vote for Republicans, you are screwing yourself economically. If you realized this, you would vote for Democrats. The only way the Republicans can get you to vote for them is to lie to you.

Please figure this out; in the meantime, go away and fondle your guns. They aren't going anywhere.

[Edweird]

110. So, since nothing is going to happen, you're angry at them for exercising their rights?

Really?

[not fooled]

170. No, for being stupid enough...

...to believe the lies (that Obama will take their guns) and to react by panic buying. If they had two functioning neurons to rub together, they would know that they don't need to rush out and stock up on weppuns. :silly:

[wartrace]

139. Ok, please explain this.

Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.

source;
http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/urban_policy/#crime-and-law-enforcement

I have noticed that those people such as yourself resort to insults rather than trying to make a point. Why is that? "Ignorant"? "gun-tards"? "fondle my guns"? If you want people to take you seriously you really ought to stop acting like a five year old child.

[gatorboy]

92. The redneck racist gun nuts start them young, don't they?

It's a guarantee we won't get rid of racism in this country anytime soon.

[not fooled]

94. Methinks some sort of BSE...

...in the game animals up there. :crazy:

[DissedByBush]

115. I started mine young

And we have a mixed-race family. I once explained what racism is to my kids in a strictly neutral facts-only manner, and using their own reasoning skills they came to the conclusion that it was stupid. They wanted to know how people could be that stupid, but I honestly had no explanation because I don't know either.

[AlphaCentauri]

98. Many repukes think Obama will take away their freedoms step by step

so they are arming them selves to defend those freedoms

That's what I heard today from a repuke :puke:

[DissedByBush]

114. I only know of one

The subject of this thread, the intent to do so stated by Obama himself.

Otherwise I have high hopes for Obama restoring some freedoms lost under Bush & Co.

[ivsd]

131. Run on Guns

Remember, A government that fears its citizens of being armed is a government that should be feared. The 2nd Amendment gives the private citizen the power to keep our government in check. The 2nd Amendment is the check and balance our fore fathers intended for our citizens to help insure that we the people rule our government instead of our government ruling us.

[someone else]

136. Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars

nt

[wartrace]

141. LOL- That's a good analogy! n/t

[not fooled]

171. Yer guns

against Blackhawk helicopters and Blackwater personnel = lousy odds. :dunce:

[BrightKnight]

143. I was taking to normal, gun loving, American guy at work today.

I live in Texas and I know that this guy normally votes Republican. I was surprised that he did not really care that Obama and other Democrats won. He was scared to death that Obama was going to pass another stupid assault weapons ban or add massive gun taxes.

We could do a lot of damage to the repugs by simply not playing gun politics. Most of these proposed laws are pointless anyway.

[Pastiche423]

146. Idiots!

Way too many of them in this country.

[Odin2005]

156. This gun-totin' liberal (it's deer season, woohoo!) is laughing at their paranoia!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[spinbaby]

168. My husband is seriously worried about this

He loves nothing more than a day at the shooting range and owns an impressive array of weaponry. He's sure Obama will arrange to limit his gun ownership. He also voted for Obama because he felt that fixing the country is more important than guns.

[Endangered Specie]

175. Lets all hope Obama is as smart as he appears to be

and avoids the issue altogether...

Now is not a time to get tangled up in social wedge issues (guns god gays and abortion). We got an economy to fix and a war to end and a healcare system to resurrect

from one gun-owning democrat to another.

[underpants]

172. Nice advertising campaign there gun makers

and IT'S FREE!

[Shardik]

178. Witless.

And I'll say it out loud. I abhor guns and the violence they bring. witless

[LanternWaste]

179. And people wonder why I...

And people wonder why I avoid gun owners as much as I avoid republicans... :eyes:

[specialed]

180. I'll be in the market for an additional glock after the new regs go into place.

I'll gladly register my fire arms with the federal government. Big whoop.

[wartrace]

199. What if the Glock is a weapon that is banned by the new "regs"?

Did you know that rifles are used in less than 3% of all gun homicides? Handguns are used in 85% of all gun homicides. What if somebody wakes up & decides to ban handguns? The so called "assault weapons ban" bans rifles that are seldom used in crime. It does not address the guns that are actually USED to kill people. It does not address the Glock handgun which, if we applied common sense, would be banned for being a gun used in many more homicides than knock-off ak47's are.

Common sense says we ban all handgun sales to reduce gun violence. Big Whoop.

[dropkickpa]

181. dumbasses

sheesh

[Raine]

190. If anyone would be likely to take guns away from the public it would be the rePUKES

if they could've they would because that's all they really needed to have complete and permanent control of this country. With the rePUKES in charge there was no way that I was for gun control! I really believe it was only the number of guns out there in public hands that kept chimp and his gang from declare martial law and suspending the election.

[Name removed]

197. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[superconnected]

198. Now that he's the number 1 target in the US, as well as the gun nuts are the ones targeting him

I can see how he would take talking points away from them by pulling it off his website. Otherwise they'd be showing it to their co-horts saying "see, we gotta take him out".

Make no mistake, these people will kill people who try to take their guns away. Gun nuts are a murderously paranoid group. How many other people feel the need to be prepared to kill someone.

[frank4570]

201. I certainly know a lot of gun guys

And almost all of them fail to meet your description of gun nuts. Gun owners are just average people, generally more law abiding than their non-gun owner counter parts.

If ever there was a time when the "gun nuts" were going to shoot law enforcement officers it was post Katrina.
Officers were going house to house forcibly removing people, shooting pets right in the owners houses, roughing up citizens and UNLAWFULLY CONFISCATING GUNS. Power was out, communication was out, water was out, criminals had the run of the place to rob, rape and murder, which they did. Officers were deserting their posts. And how many gun nuts shot the officers who came to take the guns? Not one.

[stickgrrl]

206. You hit the nail on the head (for me)

frank,

Your point leads perfectly to what I'm struggling to understand. I currently don't own a gun. I'm thinking about buying one. My parents did not keep a gun in the house but most of my other relatives did, and I grew up around them.

I can't figure out whether to buy a gun or not. If our society goes downhill and people randomly start shooting at each other, I'm pretty sure I'll eventually have my gun taken away (I'm a short woman) or will be shot myself. Or it will somehow end badly. Maybe I'm going down fighting, but what's the point? Did the gun help?

And as your post above states -- responsible gun owners DIDN'T (i.e. it's a FACT) resist when officers arrive to confiscate them. So we do not back up our thinking with actions. ...and maybe that means as humans there is some good in us. But if I'm going to give in and give up my gun, why buy it in the first place?

From a conspiracy theorist standpoint, if I buy a gun and register it, I may end up on "the list" of people who get ushered to FEMA camps when martial law is imposed. I could be considered a terrorist. (Not saying this is all my opinion, but it is a possibility.)

Lastly, I ashamedly do not know the US Constitution or Bill of Rights very well. So I can't present a good argument on this one, but isn't in there somewhere that the US Military works for us and shouldn't be policing us? Or Blackwater for that matter. These things are starting to happen. So in order to keep the "proper" US intact, to follow our laws as written... am I responsible to protect myself from these changes that are happening by buying as many guns as possible (so I have them to share!), and that any gun should be legal to buy, because I should have any kind of firepower "my" military has. They work for me.

In the end, I think I'm going to end up being a "sheepie" American and not buy one. But I'd love feedback on any of the stuff I'm confused about.

cheers,
stickgrrl

[frank4570]

207. I can only answer for myself

but here is what I think.

"I can't figure out whether to buy a gun or not. If our society goes downhill and people randomly start shooting at each other, I'm pretty sure I'll eventually have my gun taken away (I'm a short woman) or will be shot myself. Or it will somehow end badly. Maybe I'm going down fighting, but what's the point? Did the gun help?"

If our society goes downhill it is not going to be average people who end up shooting other people. It will be criminals just like now,and just like Katrina. If a criminal tries to hurt you it may end badly or it may not. But if you have a gun and know how to use it, and are willing to use it, you are just as capable of defending yourself as a person twice your size. If you are now willing to use the gun you have, then it is worse to have it then not.
There is a 911 audio tape on the internet now, it goes on for about 20 minutes. A woman is in her house with the 911 dispatcher as a stalker is breaking into her house. He breaks into her house,walks around the house for a while, and slowly breaks down the door of the room she is hiding in, and comes after her. It is just awful to hear her on the tape screaming.But her friend gave her a gun and as the bad guy is trying to strangle her she shoots him in the chest a few times. Bad guy rapist/murderer dies, woman is hysterical but she is not hurt.

"And as your post above states -- responsible gun owners DIDN'T (i.e. it's a FACT) resist when officers arrive to confiscate them. So we do not back up our thinking with actions. ...and maybe that means as humans there is some good in us. But if I'm going to give in and give up my gun, why buy it in the first place?"

If there is a new ban you may not be able to buy the gun you want. But if you buy it before a ban you will probably get to keep what you already have. People still legally own real machine guns in this country.But they are so rare they sell for 10 times what they are worth.

"From a conspiracy theorist standpoint, if I buy a gun and register it, I may end up on "the list" of people who get ushered to FEMA camps when martial law is imposed. I could be considered a terrorist. (Not saying this is all my opinion, but it is a possibility.)"

I don't believe anything like this will happen short of a disaster of biblical proportions. Not in my lifetime.

"Lastly, I ashamedly do not know the US Constitution or Bill of Rights very well. So I can't present a good argument on this one, but isn't in there somewhere that the US Military works for us and shouldn't be policing us? Or Blackwater for that matter. These things are starting to happen. So in order to keep the "proper" US intact, to follow our laws as written... am I responsible to protect myself from these changes that are happening by buying as many guns as possible (so I have them to share!), and that any gun should be legal to buy, because I should have any kind of firepower "my" military has. They work for me."

Blackwater is a private contractor, not military. So they most certainly can operate in the U.S. If things go so badly that you and your friends, or me and my friends, distribute our rifles and go up against a large Blackwater force, we will loose. Quickly and decisively.
But Ruby Ridge and Waco are good examples of what can happen. Because those people had guns there was a ton of publicity. People asked questions. The govt. was held accountable in court. If those civilians didn't have guns we would know nothing about either of those events. Law enforcement would be free to do what ever they want without fear of publicity or repercussions.

"In the end, I think I'm going to end up being a "sheepie" American and not buy one. But I'd love feedback on any of the stuff I'm confused about."

And in the end you will probably never need a gun, and that is a good thing. It is like fire insurance. If I need to use it, I need it really badly. But I would prefer to never need it.

I hope I've made some sense here.
Have a good day.