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Angry Prop 8 opponents urge boycott of Utah ski areas and Sundance Film Festival

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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:46 PM
Original message
Angry Prop 8 opponents urge boycott of Utah ski areas and Sundance Film Festival
Source: Associated Press

SALT LAKE CITY — Utah's growing tourism industry and the star-studded Sundance Film Festival are being targeted for a boycott by bloggers, gay rights activists and others seeking to punish the Mormon church for its aggressive promotion of California's ban on gay marriage.

It could be a heavy price to pay. Tourism brings in $6 billion a year to Utah, with world-class skiing, the spectacular red rock country and the film festival founded by Robert Redford among the state's popular tourist draws.

"At a fundamental level, the Utah Mormons crossed the line on this one," said gay rights activist John Aravosis, an influential Washington, D.C-based blogger. "They just took marriage away from 20,000 couples and made their children bastards. You don't do that and get away with it."

... The irony in the attack on Utah's tourism industry is that it would likely do the most harm in Salt Lake City and Park City — two of the state's most liberal cities and those with some of the smallest percentages of Mormons in the state.


Read more: http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_10927375
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. WHERE DO I SIGN????
Is there any kind of petition, letting the state of Utah KNOW I'm boycotting?
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Rather than pick on tourism and the ski industry - why not go after
The Mormon Church's Tax Exempt staus??

Going after the industry where the more liberal element of Utah works and plays seems counter productive to me.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. THAT too...
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Quite right,
Seems inappropriate.

SLC is the town that gave us Rocky Anderson. Let's not curse the entire state because of the predominant religion there.

Go after the religious organization itself and its failure to keep the fuck out of politics.
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JimDandy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
57. Haha haha - the Mormons out of politics? That's a good one.
Edited on Fri Nov-07-08 11:18 PM by JimDandy
Every year, before the legislative session opens in Utah, both political parties in SLC troop down capitol hill to Temple Square to be told what bills the church expects them to pass (I'm serious - that's what happens. The meetings are covered by the SLC Tribune.) The Republicans go the first day and the Democrats the next (the few that there are). What the Church wants, the Church gets. Most of the legislators are LDS and they follow the instructions of their church and church president under threat of ex-communication (Which is why there is NO WAY Mitt Romney should ever be allowed to become President of the U.S.)

"Go after the religious organization itself and its failure to keep the fuck out of politics."

What ARE they afraid of, then? The very mechanism that they used against the gays in California - the power granted to the people through the Utah Constitution - the Initiative and Referendum processes.

If you want to hurt them, run an initiative, IN UTAH, or do what the Utah Education Association did to them in 2007 - block a passed bill (that they want to become law) by filing a people's referendum against it. The UEA blocked a school voucher law which the LDS Church REALLY REALLY wanted that would have required the state to pay for the education of LDS children in private LDS schools. The UEA won by waging battle on a populist issue, using a carefully executed game plan, and Utahans ended up backing them, instead of their own church.

The key is to pick a VERY populist issue, one that the general population of Utah wants, but which the church is opposed to, (and therefore wouldn't get a hearing in the state legislature) and file an initiative to bring it to a vote of the people. The Utah legislature (substitute LDS Church) is VERY vindictive to any person or organization who crosses them, though, so it would be best if the Utahans who actually file the initiative are either very powerful, or poor (don't own any property or cars etc. - I'm not kidding!) so they are attack-proof.

Less than 30 initiatives and referendums have been filed in Utah since 1960, though, and only three or four have ever passed. Why? Because each time the people have voted for one, the church-controlled legislature then passed bills to make the people's legislative processes even more difficult for the people to use! There now needs to be an Initiative to change the Initiative process in Utah. :D

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #57
65. Uh the poster that you were replying to was saying that the Mormons should get the
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 03:23 AM by truedelphi
F&^$! out of politics.

They weren't saying the Mormons stay out of politics. We all know they don't.

Other than the opening sentence ot two where yo seem to be picking on a poster that says what youa re saying, I agree with the rest. And it sound slike you have a workable game plan to run with, one I would be in support of.
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JimDandy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. Yikes... I was AGREEING with the poster.
From your reading of my post, I'm apparently horrible at sarcasm. Guess I should stick to being boringly blunt from now on.

Glad you like the game plan. It WILL work. I lived in SLC for 14 years and helped get signatures to put 3 statewide initiatives/referendums on the ballot.

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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #66
79. People who live in places like SLC and Orange County, CA, are my heroes
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 04:30 PM by truedelphi
And go ahead and be sarcastic, but maybe use the sarcasm button??

Do they have good coffee places iN SLC? I had a friend who couldn't tolerate the lack of coffee houses in the early '80's and moved back to CA.

The housing prices have always been good though. And beautiful scenery as well.
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JimDandy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #79
95. Thanks. Lots of Dems worked hard to keep SLC and other small pockets in Utah blue.
Yes there are good coffee places in SLC. I don't drink it (never could get past the taste), but my son who went to the U of U used to go to some coffee spots by the U on 900 East and to a few cafes over in Sugarhouse (about 2100 S and 1100 E) that served a wonderful variety of drinks including coffees and smoothies. The eclectic shops in the Sugarhouse area were all slated to be torn down right after we left in 2007, though. And, of course, there are Starbucks, even in Utah.

Unfortunately, starting in the early 90's, the housing prices and rents in SLC rivaled prices in some spots in CA!
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
42. Why limit ourselves to one line of attack?
We can go after the Mormon church's tax exempt status and tourism that benefits them.

Everything that benefits Mormons should be targeted.

They cannot simply apologize for this one assault and expect everything to be fine.

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TommyO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
51. Did the tourism and ski industry fight the Mormon's
work to deny gay people their civil rights?
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
75. Great idea. And we can boycott Mormon corporations; Here's a list:
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. Is it true that Safeway is Mormon owned and run?? n/t
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #80
94. I don't believe that is true. n/t
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zelta gaisma Donating Member (220 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
78. oh i LIKE that!
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
97. Because it's virtually impossible
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 11:45 PM by mitchtv
churches cannot promote candidates that's more or less their limits.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. made their children bastards ?
I don't follow that. What is the exact reasoning behind the statement ?
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. Bastard: a person born of unmarried parents; an illegitimate child.
bas⋅tard    Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person born of unmarried parents; an illegitimate child.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bastard
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Doesn't that preassume then
Edited on Fri Nov-07-08 06:30 PM by edwardlindy
that the birth certificate will carry both the mother's and father's joint married name ?
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FreeState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. Nope - in CA and other state Im sure you can have 2 moms or 2 dads listed
the fact of the matter is if your parents are not married under the law, no matter what their sexual orientation, your a bastard.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. Umm ... no one uses that term anymore.
I was in social work for years, and no one even referred to the child's parents marital status. It was irrevelant, and is virtually irrevelant in court.

My child's biological parents were not married, and I'd thank you kindly to avoid using that term.
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ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. Pregnant Mom-To-Be should be suing for her child's rights...

Someone needs to find a few pregnant moms-to-be to fight for their future child's rights which have been summarily taken away from them by this initiative. THEY are the ones that are also affected -

they have had their rights to a stable 2-parent family taken away
they have had their rights to have medical care decisions made for them by one parent if another is unavailable
they have had their rights to called 'legitimate' taken away
they have lost their right to inheritance by BOTH parents which they were legally entitled to
they have lost countless other rights, all taken away by others

I hope the lawyers out there find several of these lesbian moms-to-be and fight their children-to-be's fight.

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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
44. Their children wouldn't be bastards
the definition of bastardy that robbed children of divorced parents of their legitimacy went out the window a long, long time ago. If that definition was still in use, the Duke of York would be next in line for the throne of England instead of William and Harry Wales.
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CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
106. It is a line they stole from Gandhi
South Africa made all non christian marriages illegal and Gandhi told the hindus and muslims that meant in the eyes of the law their wives were whores and their children bastards.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. That's not fair with Sundance. Sundance is run by Robert Redford, who is one of the good ones
but I can understand boycotting the ski areas
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Glorfindel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Maybe Robert Redford would consider moving it?
It's HIS festival, not Utah's. He could have it anywhere and call it Sundance. Just a thought.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. That's a good idea.
Edited on Fri Nov-07-08 05:59 PM by IanDB1
Robert Redford
Creative Artists Agency
9830 Wilshire Boulevard
Beverly Hills, California 90212-1825
USA

CONTACT

California Office

Sundance Institute
8530 Wilshire Blvd., 3rd Floor
Beverly Hills, CA 90211-3114
Tel: 310.360.1981 Fax: 310.360.1969

Utah Office

Sundance Institute
1825 Three Kings Dr.
Park City, UT 84060

Mailing: P.O. Box 684429
Park City, UT 84068
Institute@sundance.org
Tel: 435.658.3456 Fax: 435.658.3457

http://www.sundance.org/



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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
46. He can move it to Saugutuck Michigan, gay resort area
its a gay tourist area, in the middle of SW MI, and it has a waterfront film festival every year..people come from all over the world...they would welcome it.
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ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. GREAT idea - and thanks for posting the info (above)

Hopefully they will consider it, or at least announce they are considering it so they can get a little squirming from folks that have sat idly by and let the Church do their will against another state who benefits their state.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
37. It would not hurt to ask him about joining this boycott BY moving it to
freindlier territory.
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JimDandy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
58. Park City is WAY too small for the festival now, anyway.
So this would be an opportune time for Redford to move it out of Utah.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
64. My first thought, too.
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 12:18 AM by guruoo
He might just do it, too.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
73. Move it to Denver!
Down with LDS!
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. As another poster said, Maybe Robert Redford would WANT to move Sundance if we asked nicely. n/t
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ProgressiveEconomist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. What would be better alternatives? Where is there good skiing in states that recognize
gay marriage?

In this time of economic crisis, IMO it might be MUCH better to approach economic development officials in those states FIRST, to see who's most responsive, before approaching Redford.

Those states can offer Redford "carrots", while progressives can only offer Redford "sticks".

They might make Redford offers he would be economically prodigal to refuse.

Plus they already must have been trying desperately to lure big-spending skiiers away from Utah.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Massachusetts. n/t
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. The Alps
Ski the First World. Fuck Park City.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #22
108. Maybe people with a conscience could forego the skiing. NT
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Many folks in the film industry would support this move
Let Utah live without the money from "Hollywood Liberals"
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Utah Tourism Board has a hell of a nerve advertising during Rachel Maddow's show. n/t
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Pretty Powerful Words... the Mormons Screwed Up pretty Big Here
they should've stayed out of politics, and should never have infringed upon an American citizen's right.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sundance? That Doesn't Seem Appropriate nt
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. You convince Sundance to pull out of Utah. n/t
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Exactly. The economic measures worked with Colorado
and it's the best way to make the message heard on Prop 8
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. IMHO, everyone is thinking too small.
Boycott Utah? Yes, sure.

Boycott Mariott? Yes, sure.

Revoke the tax-exempt status of The Mormon "Church" and The Catholic "Church"? Absolutely.

But still too small.

How about you revoke their corporate charters.


See:

Legal Strategies to Revoke the Corporate Charter
by Thomas Linzey
http://www.sonic.net/~doretk/Issues/96-06%20JUNE/stratagies2revoke.html

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. How stupid.
I refuse to take part in that.

Now anything that taxes the fuck out of organized religion that messes with politics? Sign me up!!!
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OnwardandForward Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
18. Not Really Effective
Sure, Utard is a Mormon state but the ski industry and Sundance have just about nothing to do with the LDS church. Robert Redford is not a Mormon. The ski resorts are not Mormon-owned and the vast majority of them are run by non-Mormons with the exception of some vacation rental properties owned by an entrepreneurial Mo-Mo here and there. This just isn't a logical target and needs thought out better. Protest on Temple Square, boycott the Marriott but Park City is one of the very small bubbles with traces of equality in a very ugly state. And watch out for the fascist Pigs in Park City. They hate the tourists.
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amdezurik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
19. pass out compaint forms for the IRS
to revoke their tax-exempt status
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. how about a gay pride parade around every mormon church in the country.
Funny that the mormon's think gay marriage is offensive to the institution of marriage, but polygamy isn't.
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
21. Sure, punish the progressive, secular areas in Utah.
Edited on Fri Nov-07-08 06:15 PM by Herdin_Cats
You wanna hurt Mormons? Boycott their business. Don't punish all Utahns for what only some did.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. So what have you done to support us?
I mean, if you've got the energy to criticize our efforts, surely you must have some better ideas that you've personally been involved in, right?

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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. That's a good point. What have THEY done? n/t
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Here's what I'm trying to say.
Don't turn the bastions of liberalism in Utah against gay rights by boycotting their businesses. The LGBT community in Utah needs all the support it can get. Don't hurt their cause by hurting the businesses most likely to support them.

Boycott the LDS church's business. Here's a partial list at exmormon.org:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon410.htm

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #32
82. That's a fair point.
NT!

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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
98. That's what they always say, and said about S Africa
Besides it worked in Colorado.Make them hurt; Believe me they hire Mor(m)ons
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OnwardandForward Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
41. Criticize Your Efforts????
Ski season hasn't even started? I'm not criticizing anybody's efforts but I'm saying this as a strategy punishes everyone BUT the Mormon church.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #41
81. Read the post again. I wasn't replying to yours.
NT!

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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Exactly, it's that moronic church that is to blame.
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
29. Bad idea - Sundance is Robert Redford's thing.
I'd suggest that Sundance be moved out of Utah, though. Maybe Aspen, Colorado.

Hawkeye-X
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
30. We just need laws against out of state agitators coming into a state to change their laws.
This cannot be allowed again: out of state busybodys coming into California with their money and their religious views, imposing their dogma onto the people who live in that state.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. That would create more problems than it solves, but it was a good thought. n/t
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #30
74. As I recall
a lot of the anti-Prop 8 money came from out of state, as well. Your concept was the basis that Mississippi used to wreak violence on the Freedom Riders back in the early '60s.

No, no limitations on free speech, even if its wrong speech. And Mormons really don't have a massive influence on people of color, it's a substantially white church here in the US that has long excluded African-Americans, and it still shows.

The outsiders didn't "impose" their views, the residents of the state did the imposing with their votes. Boycotting California would make more sense.
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Doodler71 Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
35. Good.
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alstephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
39. I decided to "boycott" Utah a long time ago...
because of the state's position on abortion. The Mormons run the state and make the laws there. There are plenty of other places to ski or go river rafting. I'll never spend a cent in Utah.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
40. Utah? What's a Utah?
eom
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. It's a texas...
just more backwards.
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JimDandy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
59. No - in Texas any man can be POTUS - in Utah, a white man can be GOD of their own planet. n/t
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. Eat, drink and be merry....for tomorrow we may be in Utah.
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #47
63. stab from the past. Did you have that T-shirt too?
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
45. *THAT* is a great idea.
Though I'll welcome other ideas where I am not, by default, already in compliance.
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
48. when the festival happens this year
find out the mormoney owned businesses and set up a boycott list--use only secular companies and if none are in the area, FedEx from out of state so that your money isn't going into the mormoney coffers.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. Great way to streamline the energy.
I like your idea. It streamlines the boycott into a very manageable strategic strike. It will provide more of a direct hit on their coffers.
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OnwardandForward Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #48
61. i can help with that
if you think it is warranted, i'd be happy to help you with a list of mormon-owned and gentile (as they call them) businesses.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
50. I'm not sure I understand that.
That area, Park City and the surrounding area, is probably the most progressive part of the state, freest of LDS influence. I'm not sure this would effectively help our cause.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
52. Was this a stolen election or did the majority vote it down and the gays can't handle it?
I'm for the proposition, even though I'm in another state.

However state elections go on majority vote, like it or not.

That it failed - if it wasn't a stolen election, means the Gays need to do a better job getting their message out.

The current message I'm seeing looks like it will affect the Gays adversely. You don't force your will on the people. You need to make them WANT to vote for you.

And yes, I think it's unconstitutional in the first place to not have their rights. It's just this is an election they're being very bad losers about and not a trip to the supreme court where it belongs. (yes I know they don't have a chance with those justices.)

Either way, by their behavior, I can see how that group of activists lost. They failed to get the hard gained support of the majority in a Mormon state, but their methods help explain why.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Are you saying you are for the proposition that took civil rights away from people?
For the record, there are lawsuits to restore those rights.

Tax-free outside agitators form another state poured millions of dollars worth of money into another state to affect the vote with blatant lies about the Proposition in order to take away people's rights that they already had. I doubt very much we are being "bad losers." What if your rights were taken away? Would you just be a "bad loser" then too?
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #56
89. I'm against the proposition, I got it wrong in my post.
I want gays to have the rights.
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really annoyed Donating Member (650 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #52
67. It Wasn't a Majority
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 06:21 AM by really annoyed
52% YES
48% NO

Data from CNN

If I lost my civil rights, I'd probably whine too. Plus, rights should NEVER be up for a "majority" vote. Somebody's personal religious feelings on gay marriage is not a "mandate" to ban it.

Plus, a church from another state (Utah) funneling money into a prop for another state? Yeah, not cool.
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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #67
88. Wow, why were rights taken away then. I guess I am clueless.
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TommyO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #52
68. Bad losers? How the hell would you feel if your right to marry was stripped from you?
Which of your civil rights are you willing to put up for a popular vote?

Civil rights should never be put up for a popular vote, which is why gay people in California, definitely *NOT* a Mormon (Moran?) state are going back to the courts to invalidate Prop 8, just as Prop 22 was invalidated.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #52
77. What the heck are you babbling about?
"the gays"?

For the first time in CA history, civil rights were taken away from a group. Taken away. By a bigoted majority (a bare one). This is unprecedented, and quite unconstitutional most likely.

There's nothing here about sore losers. That's patently absurd. There's justice and injustice here not losers and winners. To see it any other way betrays a deeply disturbing lack of understanding of basic civil rights.

And CA is not a "Mormon state". Money poured into CA thanks to a very well-organized effort by the LDS church from all over the country to pass this proposition in CA. This was a highly financed, highly-organized effort by people who don't even live in CA to strip CA citizens of rights they already had and that were already recognized by the state constitution.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #77
109. Bih homophobic stink off that post. Apparently when gays get activist it's a
problem.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #52
83. DID YOU JUST SAY YOU SUPPORTED TAKING AWAY OUR RIGHTS???
What's this "the Gays" shit?

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superconnected Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. No. I don't support taking away the rights. I got it wrong because it's not in my state.
I'm against the initiative. Thanks for pointing that out.
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #87
114. But yet you said gays just need to get over it and are sore losers
Hmmm... doesn't compute.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #52
107. Nice activist spirit there.
Scumbucket.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #52
110. I can see that your concern is very strong! n/t
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #52
113. Calling people advocating equal rights "the Gays" is very telling.
" the gays can't handle it"
"the Gays need to do a better job getting their message out"
"it will affect the Gays"

"the Gays"= "that group of activists"

Good lord. Have you any idea of how you sound?
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MikeNearMcChord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
53. I wonder if their is a way to repay the BYU sports teams
I seem to recall there where many protests against their teams back in the day when the Mormon Church advocated segregation in their worship. Imagine mass protests when their teams play in California.
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OnwardandForward Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #53
62. I REALLY LIKE THIS IDEA!
this idea has a lot of merit!!!!!!! national television!!!! it'd be a ground-breaker! civil disobedience based on religion and politics!
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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-07-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
60. AmericaBlog:help regarding Utah and Prop 8
I'd like your help regarding Utah and Prop 8
Gang,

I'm talking with some friends about possible "next steps" with regards to the passage of the anti-gay Prop 8 in California. We could use a little research help. It's been said that as many as 4 out of 5 dollars donated to the anti-gay Prop 8 forces came from Mormons, especially those in Utah. I'd like to know more about the Prop 8 donors.

Specifically, I'd like someone to go through the list of donors to Prop 8 and pull for us:

http://www.americablog.com/2008/11/id-like-your-help-regarding-utah-and.html

More Prop 8 protests planned this weekend across California
http://www.americablog.com/2008/11/more-prop-8-protests-planned-this.html
http://www.towleroad.com/2008/11/more-protests-p.html

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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
69. Boycott California. Didn't they defeat a ballot issue along the same lines ?
Why pick on Utah ?
bc the mormon fundies are almost as violent in their hatred as the moslem fundies?
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #69
76. Do you ever miss a chance for some gratuitous Islam bashing?
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #76
85. Nope. Never misses the chance.
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 06:38 PM by Zhade
NT!

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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #85
92. Just because you hate atheists expressing their point of view on religion doesn't make
Edited on Sat Nov-08-08 10:13 PM by ohio2007
your opinion that Xtian fundies are the ONLY group that are allowed to be bashed.
I find it fascinating that you decided these mormons in Utah forced their views on California voters .
Its gotta be one of those miracles you believe in.

How many black Baptists in California didn't like the idea of prop 8 ?

oh.....
No poll data on that I gather ;)
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #76
91. How about Pelosi bashing California voters ?

Pelosi says voters misunderstood Prop. 8

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi expressed deep disappointment on Friday that

California

voters approved Prop. 8

snip
Pelosi said she believes some voters might not have fully understood the initiative,

snip
Pelosi, a longtime supporter of (mayor of San Fran.)Newsom, said the mayor should not be blamed for the measure's success
snip
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2008/11/08/MNE0140996.DTL



She said the voters are pretty stupid.lol

and your cognitive disonance is very impressive :rofl:

blame Utah for a California vote result !

ahhh. ok
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #91
100. Too little, too late
Where the fuck were you Nancy??????????????????????????
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kiranon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
70. It's time to out some Mormons. Homophobia and secrets go hand in hand.
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customerserviceguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
71. Not sure this is a great idea
I lived in Utah for six months during 2005, and Park City was one of the few places I didn't feel surrounded by Mormonism. I don't ski, and have not been to the ski areas, but I've heard that they're pretty "normal", too, they sell beer and such in the lodges.

Utah is one pretty fucked up place, but the ski people and the Sundance people are the core of the folks that may ultimately save the place, if such is possible. What's kept Utah's head so firmly up its ass is that it is extremely isolated from the rest of civilization. It takes many hours to get to its population centers by car from a more modern place, when you get that high of a concentration of one religion anywhere, you're going to end up with the Taliban.

Also, I'd sure like to see the Catholics and the big fundie churches targeted as well, they did every bit as much as the Mormons to screw marriage equality in California.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
72. LDS was founded by pedophiles. They went too far this time!
They should be punished, together with those Black churches that joined them in pushing Prop 8.
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investintrains Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
84. Redford is not a Mormon but Mitt Romney bought Clear Channel
Redford is not a Mormon . Personally I would not like to
see Redford punished, but Mitt Romney bought Clear Channel
for his Bain Capital with the help of LDS capital and has
used that network not only to promote his own political
ambitions but for McCain and to support the LDS position on Prop 8

I hope Clear Channel sponsors are boycotted and that
the FCC breaks up the illegal warmonger monopoly
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jvaljean Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
86. I can see both sides....
...but anything that brings attention to this is a good idea.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-08-08 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
90. The Sundance Film Festival should be held
in SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
93. Maybe Redford can turn Sundance Festival into anti-Mormon/Prop8 event--????
Edited on Sun Nov-09-08 12:40 AM by defendandprotect
Maybe we can use it to create a huge ALL pro-GL/PFLAG event

and really nlighten America/World as to vile mischief of this church ...???


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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-09-08 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
96. For those in and near Iowa--Fareway grocery stores are Mormon-owned.
Just sayin'.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
99. Stupid.
Edited on Mon Nov-10-08 12:11 AM by brentspeak
For the same reasons expressed above: attacking the very people who actually do support you.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #99
101. As I said UP thread
That's the same argument they used in the S Africa boycott and Colorado boycott and most others. But Boycotts work
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
102. The State of Utah is only 40% Mormon. Why punish the other 60%? n/t
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
103. ski areas yes film festival no
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-10-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
104. Stupid and reactionary. (nt)
Edited on Mon Nov-10-08 04:41 PM by w4rma
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investintrains Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
105. Romney owned Clear Channel should be included..
The illegal Clear Channel monopoly, the hawkers for McCain,
were acquired in the last few months by Romney and his Chinese Army
connected Bain Capital.

Many are urging they be added to the Utah boycott.
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JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
111. I don't really think sundance and the ski resorts
had much to do with it. Other than they happen to reside in a state that also happens to have a large number of a particular minority that voted against gay marriage.

You know, blacks also voted against prop 8 in large numbers, perhaps we should boycott any businesses/states with large black populations?

Oh but that'd be unfair and discriminatory!

Yep.
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Crowman1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-13-08 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
112. I'd rather boycott Branson, MO!
That's where Donny & Marie perform. :D
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