Catholics, Mormons allied to pass Prop. 8

[Newsjock]

Source: San Francisco Chronicle

Months before the first ads would run on Proposition 8, San Francisco Catholic Archbishop George Niederauer reached out to a group he knew well, Mormons.

Niederauer had made critical inroads into improving Catholic-Mormon relations while he was Bishop of Salt Lake City for 11 years. And now he asked them for help on Prop. 8, the ballot measure that sought to ban same-sex marriages in California.

The June letter from Niederauer drew in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and proved to be a critical move in building a multi-religious coalition - the backbone of the fundraising, organizing and voting support for the successful ballot measure. By bringing together Mormons and Catholics, Niederauer would align the two most powerful religious institutions in the Prop. 8 battle.

... The last Field Poll, conducted a week before the election, showed that weekly churchgoers increased their support in the final week from 72 percent to 84 percent. Catholic support increased from 44 percent to 64 percent - a jump that accounted for 6 percent of the total California electorate and equivalent to the state's entire African American population combined.

The shift in Catholics alone more than accounted for Prop. 8's 5 percent margin of victory.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/09/MNU1140AQQ.DTL

[MadMaddie]

1. And it is time for the multi-billionaire Catholic and Mormon

churches to lose their tax exempt status!

[sjdnb]

3. I agree ... in 2000 I found pro Bush fliers on my car

outside of the Archdiocese after mass. And, listend to a pro-BUSH sermon prior to doing so. While they might not actually come out and say it ... many of these churches have become political advocates and, as such, do not deserve 'non profit' tax status.

[thraxis]

25. If you think they're powerful now, wait till you start taxing them.

They will be many times more influential because you will remove all barriers to their full participation in government.

[bean fidhleir]

27. The secret is to create a special tax category just for non-human entities

And then tax the living crap out of them every time they open their corporate mouths.

[thraxis]

29. So then, that would include American Atheists and Atheists' Alliance?

They too are very vocal 501c3's

[Skip Intro]

2. Why the fuck are relgious institutions influencing policy?

Policy that attacks the freedom they and their political bots toss around as a throwaway word, a throwaway concept, when calling for obedience?

Why can we not tell these bigots who hide behind a cross NO!

Who the fuck do these people think they are to tell a part of this nation's citizens that they somehow are not worthy of the same rights others enjoy? Especially when it comes to something so personal as declaring a union between loving partners?

What gives them the right?

[MadMaddie]

4. The * administration gave them the right

and now Obama must reel relationships back to seperation of church and state.

[Skip Intro]

5. I hope he does, but I can't see how he does it. n/t

[bliss_eternal]

6. hey maddie...

:hi: :hug:

[MadMaddie]

24. Hey You!

What a great week we had last week!! We can finally exhale!!

:toast:

[marshall]

16. They are allowed (arguably) to influence policy, but cannot support a candidate

Since both Obama and McCain came out against gay marriage (with differing degrees of wiggle room) the churches can't be said to have undermined one candidate in place of another.

The rules will have to be changed if churches are to be kept completely out of public policy debate.

[GinaMaria]

18. they have no right they simply had the means

This is far from over. Democracy took a hit with Prop 8 passing but she is still standing. Now we fight a little stronger and lot smarter. The enemy is out of the shadows. Right will prevail. We need to turn outrage into action. Any idea how to do that?

[EFerrari]

7. . .. .

"a jump that accounted for 6 percent of the total California electorate and equivalent to the state's entire African American population combined"

[Endangered Specie]

8. Funny I thought the Catholics thought Mormons were a false church

and visa versa

Let me get this straight:
Man and multiple women - okay
Man and altar boy - okay
gays - not okay

[GinaMaria]

19. the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

[wellst0nev0ter]

9. Hmm, Glad To Know That Stigmas of Poverty, Hunger, And (Non-gay) Persecution

Have all been solved, so that they can focus their resources on this real problem we have :eyes:

[LatteLibertine]

10. Catholics and Morons allied to pass Prop. 8?

Can't say I am surprised.

[Proud-D]

11. Its not my dioceses

But I really am ashamed to call myself Catholic after reading this. I hang my head in shame this night. Not all Catholics believe in 100% dogmatic law not all of us are bigots. But still I feel ashamed for some reason. I find it very hypocritical of the Church to do this on the one hand and then in the past hide pedophiles from Justice on the other hand. The day those rape cases came to light was the day I called bullshit on dogmatic law. The Vatican was complicit in those dark sins by hiding those involved. I still pray with a rosary and follow some of the old traditions which is the only reason I still consider myself to be Catholic. But I am personally ASHAMED of this and I'm sorry for giving donations to bigots.

[Indi Guy]

12. I was born a Catholic - but I don't consider myself one, because of this kind of thing...

Catholic leaders interpret scriptures their own way. We are supposed to be willing force-fed peons in this erudite process. (sound familiar?)

[customerserviceguy]

21. Ditto

I was a cradle Catholic, too, but finally dug my head out of my butt after my divorce. You see, we're non-people to them, too.

Oh, yes, they will accept you at Mass and such, but you have to remain celebate until your estranged spouse dies if you don't have the money and/or connections to pony up for an annulment. They'll take gay people, too, under the same condition, you can feel however you want, just don't act on it, OK?

[Zhade]

14. Thank you.

You should probably leave that church. It doesn't deserve people like you.

[Zhade]

13. How in the FUCK is this not illegal?

NT!

[prostock69]

15. I don't know what the tax code says

However, if it doesn't say it already, it needs to be revised to say if a church or religious institution gives verbal support or money to legislation or to a political canidate, they lose their tax exemption and must pay taxes on all revenue for the past 3 years. I think that would put a stop to this blatent disregard for separation of church and state. I am in the process of reading Obama's book "The Audicity of Hope" and he addresses this very issue. I just hope he can do something about it.

[No Elephants]

17. Churches can take positions on issues. They only cannot specify which candidate. But, with

abortion, they almost never have to. And it is not illegal to speak out about anything. They just put their tax exemption at risk, but they don't risk jail. I don't see any laws being broken by this.

Maybe our next step should be to oppose the tax exemption for ALL churches and religious organizations. If you want to give to them fine, but why should the gubbamint reward you?

[Frances]

20. I have a friend who goes to Catholic church

almost every week.

She asked me if I voted for Obama and I said I did. She said she did too. So then I told her I also voted No on 8. She said she did too because her brother is gay. She said that she has several gay cousins and all her relatives used to pretend they didn't know they were gay.

I told a second friend that I voted No on 8. She too has a gay brother and voted No.

It seems to me that we should all make a big deal out of either being gay ourselves or of being related to people who are gay.

The more we act like being gay is like having brown or blue or green or gray eyes the more progress we will make.

We have to make the churches seem out of touch with Jesus' message of love and acceptance. We have to make the golden rule Do unto others as you would have them do unto you our message and remind people that this shoulc be the message of any church that claims to follow Jesus.

[EFerrari]

23. We need to make this about our families. The most devout Catholic

in my own has a gay son. She voted no, too.

[msongs]

22. Vote YES on 8. "I'm the hitler youth pope and I approved this message". nt

[gauguin57]

26. Fucking Catholic Church, man.

Sorry, Catholic DUers. I was raised Catholic ... they didn't do anything to me, personally (well, except the whole lifelong guilt thing and the constant feeling I'm going to hell ... and the trauma of watching my mother put a Kleenex on her head when we forgot our hats on vacation ...) ... but I have so many issues with that goddamned misogynistic, fascist, pedophile-protecting, fetus-worshipping bunch of old bastards in dresses. And I am thoroughly disgusted with their behavior in this affair.

If they sold off all their goddamned gold and art work, they could feed Africa for a year.

Make them all pay taxes -- the Mormons, the Catholics and the Scientology CULT (just thought I'd throw that in for the heck of it)

[illuminaughty]

36. Thanks for reminding me about the kleenex..........

Hadn't thought of that in years. As a visitor to my L.A. family's Catholic Church, is was just one of the many things I thought bizarre.

Then I ended up living in Rome. No where finer to learn the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church. It's one of the most open sexual societies I've experienced and their birthrate (Italians) has continued to shrink despite the view of the Church on birth control.

And all the freakin' gold in the Vatican...mind numbing.

[PassingFair]

28. Tax their asses already!

They spend millions and millions of
parishioners dollars on this kind of
meddling.

The Catholic Church is especially guilty.
If they can't find a front group, in this
case, Mormons, to take the heat, they WILL
openly spend the money.

They fronted Baptist groups during our
pro-choice struggle.

[AngryOldDem]

30. How do we do that?

Seriously. We all talk about it, but as far as I'm aware, that's as far as the discussion goes.

So...where do we start? With our state legislatures and work our way up from there?

Prop 8 should be the precedent for taxing religious instititutions that intervene with public policy. If they want to play, then they have to pay. You just can't stir shit up and then hide behind your tax-exempt status.

[PassingFair]

32. I guess the same way that corporations are taxed.

Give them breaks for building in disadvantaged neighborhoods.

Count everything that comes in, and everything that goes out.

Political donations and expenditures are NOT tax-deductible.

Charitable donations ARE.

Payroll and salaries ARE.

Expenses ARE.


I guess they would have to pay state and federal taxes if they
made a profit, instead of being able to funnel it into anti-gay
marriage and anti stem-cell research projects.

[MountainLaurel]

35. Don't forget property taxes n/t

[Sivafae]

31. Let's remove their tax status. links below:

http://lds501c3.wordpress.com/

ftp://ftp.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf

The name of referred organization should be:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
50 East North Temple
Salt Lake City, UT 84150

Check: Organization is engaged in excessive lobbying activities

[DU GrovelBot]

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[JetCityLiberal]

34. Ugh

these people have no idea who Jesus was. There is nothing Christian by denying equal rights and taking rights away.

Equal Rights under the LAW for everyone. Period.

Paul