U.S. army deserter arrested at border

[Judi Lynn]

Source: The Star

U.S. army deserter arrested at border
Nov 10, 2008 04:59 PM

Adrian Morrow
Staff Reporter

An American soldier wanted for deserting the army was arrested Saturday after he tried to enter Canada, failed, and then tried to get back into the United States.

Carlos Summer, 27, was trying to get through the U.S. border crossing at Buffalo, N.Y., when American officials discovered that he was wanted on a countrywide arrest warrant. He allegedly deserted his army unit at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, last spring.

According to U.S. Customs and Border Protection, he said that he had tried unsuccessfully to cross into Canada earlier that day, intending to stay.

Summer is in police custody and faces extradition to South Carolina.



Read more: http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/534231

[ben_meyers]

1. Looks like Canada doesn't want our criminals either

I guess you can't blame them.

[slampoet]

2. Thank you for calling someone who DOESN'T want to kill for money, ....a mere criminal.

Odd how in our world someone who DOES want to kill for money is Also a Criminal unless they work for the government.

[mayahbird]

4. He volunteered.

He knew what he was getting into or should have. He should have known that he was going to end up in Iraq. I think he may have gotten into more than he thought!

[slampoet]

6. Have you ever killed anyone?

[drmeow]

10. At 27, he could have joined 9 years ago

If that was the case, how could he have know he would end up in Iraq?

[cobalt1999]

11. Doesn't matter.

He made the commitment to go where his country sent him.

[drmeow]

12. You said

"He should have known that he was going to end up in Iraq." My point was that he might not have. Whether that matters or not, you statement was based on assumptions and problematic. If you want to say - he signed up, he should have known he might go to war - that's fine but don't make statements that weaken your argument because they can be debunked.

[Joe Chi Minh]

18. Indeed it does matter. At that age, you're not much smarter than when you left the womb -

even with the most distinguished academic accreditations. You and Meyers are a disgrace. I don't even know what you're doing on here. You'll pay in Hell one day.

[Honeycombe8]

21. You don't sign up for 9 years. He's had years to get out, but chose to stay & get paid.

He also made this decision AFTER the start of the Iraq War.

Capiche? Yeah, you capiche. Instead of painting everyone with a broad brush, think about the facts.

The guy who chose to stay for the money, but then skip out on the duty he was paid to do? Someone else took his place. Yeah, a great buddy. A great "soldier."

[EFerrari]

32. Viet Nam was shut down in part because of "desertions" and mutinies.

"Someone else" also had the choice not to go die for the Dick Cheneys of the world, entiendes?

At this moment, I'm listening to Congressional testimony by soldiers ratting out the mountain of abuses happening in Iraq and at home by this corrupt m*therf#cking administration, killing our kids and theirs, actively or passively. That's a fact.

And, why aren't YOU in Iraq?

[Zhade]

91. He didn't enlist to follow illegal orders.

He's a hero, unlike the chickenhawk motherfuckers who denounce him.

[hack89]

23. I don't think that there are 9 year enlistments

which means he signed up for a second enlistment after the war started.

[JonQ]

48. You can't join the military

on the assumption that you will never be sent off to war. Well you can, but it's stupid.

What do you think the whole basic training thing (you know, where they learn to shoot and bayonet people among other things) was for?

[EFerrari]

49. But you should be able to trust that your country will honor their part of the contract

and not send you off to commit war crimes on an innocent people.

[JonQ]

50. War crimes?

I don't think the US military told anyone to go murderer children. Don't fall for your own propaganda. For the most part our soldiers are extremely professional and abu gharib was the exception (notice they were punished, not rewarded for their actions).

Had he gone and then refused a direct order to say set a bunch of Iraqi school children on fire just for the fun of it (coming all the way down from general petraeus), and was being sent to jail for disobeying such an order then I would absolutely support him. But that isn't the case. He signed a document, then refused to uphold his end of it. That is a crime.

[EFerrari]

51. Go listen to the link at the bottom of the thread. n/t

[JonQ]

92. Like I said

if he were ordered to commit a war crime and refused I would support him. But that isn't the case.

[Zombie2]

113. Did you miss Shock and Awe??

"I don't think the US military told anyone to go murderer children."

It started on day one!

Everyone watched on TV.... "just for the fun of it."

Some people even laughed and cheered as the children of Iraq burned.

[Javaman]

19. Somehow I think you will have a short stay, call me crazy. nt

[Honeycombe8]

22. If he joined 9 yrs ago, for 2 years. He's had YEARS to get out, after start of Iraq War.

Instead, he chose to stay, presumably for the money.

You are right. He volunteered. And he volunteered to stay in AFTER the Iraq War was started.

But when it came to doing the duty he wanted to be paid to do, he skipped out, leaving someone else to take his place.

[EFerrari]

35. I hope "someone else" can make as good a decision as this soldier did.

[Honeycombe8]

38. Maybe the replacement got killed. nt

[EFerrari]

40. What utter cr@p. Maybe you should show me how to die for a lie.

I'm sure the need for cannon fodder is still there.

[Honeycombe8]

45. That's why one of the punishments for desertion can be execution.

It's not just because someone leaves. It's because it affects all the others who have to take up the slack.

Yes, Virginia. People get killed in wars. If his replacement got sent to Iraq, he might have been killed.

But not the coward. He got his money, so no big deal, right? He's a hero. Volunteer to fight in a war, get your paycheck, then skip out and let some other poor sucker do your fighting and risking his life.

[EFerrari]

47. This is not a war, genius. It is the sacking of Iraq by war profiteers.

And that other "poor sucker" now has more support for refusing to take part in this crime.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. You are so on the wrong board, dude

What do you want on your pizza?

[Honeycombe8]

39. I disagree. Volunteering to do a job for money, then skipping out, leaving another guy to do thejob

There's nothing right about that. Totally different from the Vietnam War, when the guys were drafted.

This guy volunteered DURING the Iraq War, so he knew the drill. Cheesy little coward, is what he sounds like. If he was scared or disagreed with the Iraq or Afghanistan wars, he didn't have to volunteer.

This board is exactly where that poster needs to be, since we all care about the troops, including the one who had to take the deserter's place.

Think of it this way: Taking a job at Wal-Mart during the height of the Christmas season, getting your paycheck, then skipping out one night because you decide you don't like consumerism, leaving your co-workers to do your job. Nothing right about it. Cowardly, underhanded, immature, and just flat wrong.

[EFerrari]

42. Because fighting in an illegal, brutal and deadly war is like bagging groceries.

Good God.

[Honeycombe8]

43. He chose to, in exchange for money. Then at the last minute, he let some other guy do his dirtywork

He's a coward.

[EFerrari]

46. No one is obligated to die for this illegal war, which is basically a crime

against the Iraqi people. So spare me your thoughtless, fake moralizing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. You obviously don't know much about this issue

As a longtime antiwar activist, I have provided support and heard many stories from our soldiers. I spent 3 days in Maryland in March at the Winter Soldier testimony and still get a sick feeling in my stomach when I remember that event.

Our soldiers are lied to before they 'volunteer', are lied to when they serve and are lied to when they don't want to extend their service. And if they are injured, they are ignored and treated like shit. I know an injured soldier who was sent back into combat on crutches. I also know Tomas Young, who was paralyzed by a sniper on his 5th day in Iraq. His story is so horrific that Phil Donahue made a movie about him - Body of War.

So don't just assume these soldiers volunteer so we should not support them when they change their minds. The ones who desert are the bravest whom we should be respecting rather than criticizing.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

99. Pay no attention.

The personal attacks reveal the character of the people that are attacking you.

David

[Sex Pistol]

96. Desertion is a crime. Is it not?

While the Iraq war is surely wrong, two wrongs never = right.

[IndianaGreen]

98. Let's start by putting Bush in front of a firing squad

Bush deserted during the Vietnam war, and you know what happened to Pvt Slovic.

[Sex Pistol]

102. Bush, like others of privilege,

surely received preferential treatment with respect to his National Guard billet. But that has nothing to do with this matter.

Besides that, Bush will soon be little more than a bad memory, and Obama will require the military he commands to be a disciplined one.

[IndianaGreen]

109. We shouldn't use our military to invade foreign nations for no cause

Right now we are on the same moral plane as the Wehrmacht was when it invaded Poland after being told that Poland had attacked Germany.

[Sex Pistol]

112. Come on now, it's bad, but it ain't that bad.

However, I do agree that we shouldn't invade other nations without cause.

[Earth_First]

3. *sigh*

Good luck, Carlos.

-(most of us do not regard you as a criminal)

[Kingofalldems]

26. You should take his place then, tough guy.

[EFerrari]

28. Why aren't you in Iraq?

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. OMG

You are actually calling a soldier who bravely deserted a criminal???

Did you vote for Bush too??

[IndianaGreen]

55. You are the criminal for defending criminal wars!

That soldier is a patriot and has more guts than the ones in his unit that continue to slogged out on a war they no longer believe in.

[gratuitous]

5. How about "accused" deserter?

Mr. Summer has not, after all, been convicted of anything, unlike convicted felon Sen. Ted Stevens.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. 27 years old is old enough to know what one is getting into by joining the military.

[EFerrari]

31. Yeah. I'm sure that's what Pat Tillman thought when he enlisted after 9/11.

He was going to defend his country and take down bin Laden. What a cruel joke on those service people being pushed around by contractors and blown up by IEDs in Iraq while their families lose their homes and jobs back home.

[Mari333]

8. wish you could have made it , kid. n/t

[zelta gaisma]

9. I wonder when he joined up? Back before we were in an illegal war?

[hardtravelin]

13. Highly unlikely

That a guy who has been in 5 years would desert. If he's been in 5 years, he would have had at least one deployment by now.

[Honeycombe8]

25. If he joined before IW, you don't sign up for 9 years, so he would've been able to get out beforenow

If he signed up a couple of years ago, it was well after start of IW, and he signed up knowing full well he might be sent there.

Either way, he apparently made a choice to either join or stay in, when the IW was going on. When he deserted, someone else had to take his place. I wonder if he left the money he'd been paid so far, behind, since he wasn't willing to do what he said he'd do for the money? I'm guessing not.

[Lilith Velkor]

85. If he joined before 9/11, he could be stop-lossed. It's been 8 years since 9/11.

[saigon68]

14. This thread is sick

Why don't some of you brave men "join up" and kill a few "insert racial epithet here" heads.

i hear you can "join up" until you are 45 years old

[hardtravelin]

15. I'm in right now.

Active duty.

[saigon68]

16. Thank you for your service

Its not all fun is it?
:-) :-)

[hardtravelin]

17. You got that right, Brother.

I've been in the mix since 1985. Retiring next year. I've been both proud and ashamed of my chain of command at different times, but I've always loved the guys standing beside me. That's what it's all about in the end.

Happy Vets day, Saigon.

[hack89]

24. I did my 20. nt

[wmbrew0206]

103. I already have. I've done two in Iraq and one in Afghanistan.

I have no sympathy for this guy. If he felt strongly enough, he could have filed for contentious objector status and dealt with this like a man. Instead he turned tail and ran.

[Carlos Summers]

20. They spelled my name wrong, its Summers with s at the end

So, since I am the subject of the article, I get to rant. I blame nobody for negative input, I'm willing to die for your right to say it. I'm not willing to die to feed an oil addiction. I joined the Army in San Diego on August 08, 2001. I was 20. I read my contract and asked my recruiter about the part that says 5 years of inactive reserve after my 3 years that I was signing up for, he said "don't worry you won't have to come to work or anything, but anyway, you get a $20,000 enlistment bonus for airborne infantry, you going to buy a car? *cough* dumbass *cough*" After 9-11, I didn't complain, I went to Afghanistan as an airborne infantryman (the epitome of combat arms) I served energetically believing in my cause. The Iraq invasion occurred while I was there. I went there too. I was then honorably discharged for serving the extent of my contract as an active soldier in August of 2004 over 4 years ago. I was reactivated (not asked if I wanted to fight in an illegal war) a year later. I spent the next two years serving in Fort Bragg and educating myself about what is going on in the world. My unit came down on orders and I made my statement, love it or hate it, let a war supporter put boots on. I then tried to go to the most demographically diverse and most highly educated city in the world, Toronto. Where soldiers who have reached some enlightenment about the war escape to. I figured I had a place to be again. I just got out of jail. I feel I never committed a crime, I know that, because I never supported a war that I knew was wrong. I'm no Nazi.

[EFerrari]

27. Welcome to DU, Carlos.

[Bonobo]

30. If you are the real thing...

I just want to let you know I support you and would let you hide out here in my house or support you in any way I could.

Ignore the liars and keyboard warriors on this thread. You are doing the correct thing.

[Zuiderelle]

33. This sounds feasible. If this is indeed you, please post here again.

Welcome to DU! I hope you find the support to fight this. It sounds like you were severely misled.

[Hugin]

41. Thank you for your service, Carlos.

I like the quote in your profile. Too true.

[Mari333]

44. ((((((((Carlos))))))))))

hugs and more hugs to you from a mom.
:hug:

[IndianaGreen]

57. Involuntary servitude, thanks to Pentagon's stop loss

Have you contacted any of the antiwar veterans organizations such as Veterans for Peace or Iraq Veterans Against the War?

[wmbrew0206]

104. Spare me the sob story.

You admit you knew you were obligated for 8 years of service and signed the contract.

If you had a problem you could have filed for contentious object status rather than running away. If they turned down your claim you could have said you won't go and disobeyed a direct order and taken your chances in a court martial if you really believed your orders were illegal.

Instead you ran. Now you are going to have to deal with the consequences. The funny thing is, if you just stayed and refused the order to deploy, you'd probably be out and free by now.

[Mari333]

29. sending love to this young man

he followed his conscience, rather then follow the chickenhawk warmongers who wanted him to put his life on the line for oil profiteering.

[EFerrari]

34. Winter Soldier on the Hill: War Vets Testify Before Congress

War veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan came to Capitol Hill earlier this year to testify before Congress and give an eyewitness account about the horrors of war. Like the Winter Soldier hearings in March, when more than 200 service members gathered for four days in Silver Spring, Maryland to give their eyewitness accounts of the injustices occurring in Iraq and Afghanistan, “Winter Soldier on the Hill” was designed to drive home the human cost of the war and occupation—this time, to the very people in charge of doing something about it. <[br />
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/11/28/winter_soldier_on_the_hill_war

[Squatch]

52. Fucking coward. I hope they lock him up at the USDP for the maximum time punishable

[ohio2007]

53. Army Sets First Execution in Over 50 Years

snip
President George W. Bush approved Gray's execution in July, and a month later Army Secretary Pete Geren set the execution date and ordered that Gray be put to death by injection. The date was publicly released Nov. 20.

snip

http://www.military.com/news/article/army-sets-first-execution-in-50-years.html?ESRC=dod.nl

Bet this guy wished he made a run for the border.

[Squatch]

54. Article 85 of the UCMJ

...Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.

--------------
Here's to hoping for a life sentence at Leavenworth.

[IndianaGreen]

58. Bush deserted during the Vietnam War

Let's start with that war criminal motherfucker!

[Thothmes]

88. You mean LBJs war dont you

[Nickster]

62. So when did Congress pass a Declaration of War?

[ohio2007]

66. but does the murder rapist deserve hot meals if he gets a stay of execution

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3618607&mesg_id=3618607

people have to clarify the double standards

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. We aren't at war, brainiac

:eyes:

[Selatius]

89. Umm, Congress never officially declared war. Your argument has collapsed. nt

[wmbrew0206]

105. What does this have to do with this case? The guy getting excuted killed and raped several people.

The only thing these two cases have in common is both were in the army when they committed a crime.

[EFerrari]

56. The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori. n/t

[Squatch]

60. I wouldn't expect you to understand.

[IndianaGreen]

63. Beware, many of us are military veterans

Don't assume anyhting.

[Squatch]

64. Too goddamned funny, in light of your first reply to me.

[IndianaGreen]

71. You posting from Afghanistan? It is after midnite there already.

Got news for you, Afghanistan is already lost.

[Squatch]

73. Thanks for telling me what time it is.

It was also 60 degrees and sunny today, but I'm sure you already knew that.

[ohio2007]

79. nothing like painting a target on your screen name lol

But maybe they will forgive your big foot in mouth opinions there Squatch.


Me?
Im' just ignored by 'the few, the proud'

the moderators



:fistbump:


the real story is being told between the lines of communication

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7755106.stm

[EFerrari]

80. DU is very democratic. There is no poster too proud, no foot too big,

no mouth too wide. lol

We're equal opportunity offenders!

[IndianaGreen]

81. Squatch is okay

The people that send Squatch to Afghanistan are repeating the same mistakes the Soviets and the Kabul government made during the Afghan-Soviet War. It is one thing to send teams after bin Laden, quite another to try to put together what has always been a loose federation of tribal lords.

[wmbrew0206]

106. How do you see the US repeating the mistakes of the Soviets in Afghanistan?

Seeing as the Soviets rolled in with over a Division + of tanks and heavy armored vehicles and the US doesn't have a tank in the country.

I also take exception to comparing the US's tactics in Afghanistan to the Soviets. We are not intentionally bombing civilian cities and trying to destroy and usable farm land like the Soviets did in the '80's.

[IndianaGreen]

82. Yep, I already knew that

Take care, buddy!

[ohio2007]

75. have you been to the military message forum?

I think they pay some happy camper to keep it active.

lol


But with xng, maybe the spitters venom will subside in a few months ;)

don't hold your breath

[EFerrari]

65. What about the veteran that wrote that line?

Wilfred Edward Salter Owen MC (18 March 1893 – 4 November 1918) was an English poet and soldier, regarded by many as one of the leading poets of the First World War. His shocking, realistic war poetry on the horrors of trench and gas warfare was heavily influenced by his friend Siegfried Sassoon and sat in stark contrast to both the public perception of war at the time, and to the confidently patriotic verse written earlier by war poets such as Rupert Brooke. Some of his best-known works—most of which were published posthumously—include Dulce Et Decorum Est, Insensibility, Anthem for Doomed Youth, Futility and Strange Meeting. His preface intended for a book of poems to be published in 1919 contains numerous well-known phrases, especially 'War, and the pity of War', and 'the Poetry is in the pity'.<1>

He is perhaps just as well-known for having been killed in action at the Battle of the Sambre just a week before the war ended, causing news of his death to reach home as the town's church bells declared peace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfred_Owen


Dulce Et Decorum Est

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.

GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!-- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

[Squatch]

68. I guess since the line was originally penned by the Roman poet Horace...

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

69. I gave you Owen's revision, not Horace's original. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

95. Interesting stuff I posted about Wilfred Owen

Vera Brittain wrote about the men and women of her generation, an idealistic generation, damaged and torn asunder by the horrors of World War I. She lost her fiancée, her brother, and many of her friends to what was then called ‘The Great War.’ In her poignant 1933 memoir Testament of Youth, she described the human carnage she witnessed during the 1917 Battle of Cambrai while serving as a nurse at a military hospital near the front:

I wish those people who write so gibley about this being a holy War, and the orators who talk so much about going on no matter how long the War lasts and what it may mean, could see a case-to say nothing of 10 cases-of mustard gas in its early stages-could see the poor things burnt and blistered all over with great mustard-coloured suppurating blisters, with blind eyes-sometimes temporarily, sometimes permanently-all sticky and stuck together, and always fighting for breadth, with voices a mere whisper, saying that their throats are closing and they know they will choke.

One of the most powerful poems to come out of World War I was Wilfred Owen’s Dulce et Decorum Est. Owen, an infantryman in the British army, bitterly noted how the carnage he had witnessed ran counter to the “old lie,” that dying for one’s country was sweet and proper.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Wilfred Owen died in a gas attack two weeks before WWI ended.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/IndianaGreen/107

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7322086

[IndianaGreen]

59. Why don't you take his place in Iraq?

Gawd save us from gung ho motherfuckers!

[Squatch]

61. Because I'm ALREADY in Afghanistan

[IndianaGreen]

67. At least you are in the right place, for a change

This fiasco in Afghanistan, which is beyond repair by now, could have been avoided had we never gone into Iraq.

BTW, Carlos Summers says he served in Afghanistan and Iraq and his enlistment expired. He was stop-loss by Pentagon.

[Squatch]

70. The Pentagon doesn't stop loss

Stop loss is enacted at and by the unit when that unit is alerted prior to a mobilization. I, for one, wouldn't believe a fucking thing Mr. Summers has to say since he has already demonstrated a lack of moral fiber.

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. You are accusing him of lying?

[wmbrew0206]

107. This story is full of holes

According to his post he had been discharged off of active duty with 4+ years of active service. He states he was activated a year later and spent two years at Ft Bragg. His unit then received orders to Iraq and he was going to be required to go.

As a reservist, you can only be recalled to active duty for a total of two years at a time. By law, the government has to release you for at least a 12 months before recalling you to active duty again. Only a full mobilization from the President can increase the number of consecutive years a reservist can be recalled from 2 to 5. You can volunteer to stay on after two years, but can quit at any point after that. I've dealt with this several times since another reserve officer I did a deployment with volunteered to stay on active duty past two years to do a deployment. He gave the command a problem because if they tried to bully him, he would say "OK, I'm dropping my papers," meaning I don't want to serve anymore and by law you have to let me off active duty.

[EFerrari]

72. How long you there for, Squatch? Do you know? n/t

[Squatch]

74. Until next August.

[EFerrari]

76. Be careful. If you want, we can have lots of arguments between now and then

to make the time pass more quickly. :)

[IndianaGreen]

77. Despite our differences, I wish you well. Come back home!

I will buy you a beer!

[Squatch]

78. Thanks...right about now that sounds incredible.

[otherlander]

90. I understand how you could see deserting as cowardice...

But what do you think of people who refuse to fight, and allow themselves to be arrested and jailed for doing so rather than trying to flee the country?

[wmbrew0206]

108. I have no problem with that.

If a person really believes that his orders are illegal or a war he is order to fight in is illegal and refuses to do so and is willing state his case in court and then face the consequences, then I can understand and respect that. I might disagree with his opinion but I can respect it. That person is not a coward but someone willing to stand up for their beliefs.

Deserting is what cowards do. They aren't willing to stand up for their beliefs and they won't honor the contract they signed. I can respect neither. They are scared and don't want to go back so they run.

I find it funny how all the deserters want to claim the reason they ran is that the war is illegal and have moral objections AFTER they are caught.

[otherlander]

84. Running away to Canada is for wimps.

Real consciencious objectors take a stand, even if it means jail time.
Like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camilo_Mejia">this guy.

[proud2BlibKansan]

93. Lots of disturbing responses in this thread

How sad that DUers (whom I assumed were largely progressive) condemn this brave soldier who refuses to serve in Bush's war.

[IndianaGreen]

94. Militarism is a component of fascism, and patriotism is a con game!

We have demonstrated that for capitalism, militarism creates the most profitable and indispensable kind of investment. Now it is evident that the same monies which the government acquires through taxation serve to maintain militarism. Had they remained in the people’s hands, however, they would have represented an increased demand for foodstuffs; or, had the State used these monies on a larger scale for cultural purposes, a corresponding demand for social works would have been created.

Rosa Luxemburg

The Militia and Militarism (1899)

http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1899/02/26.htm

Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who have had the fortune of being born on some particular spot, consider themselves better, nobler, grander, more intelligent than the living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill, and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all the others.

Emma Goldman

Patriotism, a Menace to Liberty (1911)

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/goldman/works/1911/patriotism.htm

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

100. I agree but it's your responses that were so disturbing.

[Mari333]

111. yes, DU has become hawkish and weird lately

was never like this back when Bush invaded Iraq. wonder what happened.

[Zombie2]

114. I almost forgot that I was on DU.

BTW - I served in the Army under Clinton. I'm just glad I got out in time.

[Carlos Summers]

97. Flattered so many responses

I served the duration of my active duty and thus earned my benefits and bonus, and during which time I served in both Afghanistan and Iraq honorably and then received an honorable discharge. I was then reactivated from IRR a year later after I had already begun to forge ahead with my life. I never wanted to be in a war, I joined for college money, my first day of basic training was 9-11 and I didn't complain one bit. I drove on, I was the business end of bad politics. I got my discharge and I kept my mouth shut. Only damn way I'll ever go back to Iraq is if Bush is my assistant gunner.

[Mari333]

101. behind you all the way Carlos. peace to you now. n/t

[rangersmith82]

110. Do you know a PFC Hizman??

He was in 1 BDE, either 2 or 3rd BN.