God, Humbug: Humanist Holiday Ads Say Just Be Good

[Hissyspit]

Source: Associated Press

God, humbug: Humanist holiday ads say just be good

By ERIC GORSKI (AP Religion Writer)
From Associated Press
November 11, 2008 7:10 PM EST

DENVER - Ads proclaiming, "Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness' sake," will appear on Washington, D.C., buses starting next week and running through December, sponsored by The American Humanist Association. In lifting lyrics from "Santa Claus is Coming to Town," the Washington-based group is wading into what has become a perennial debate over commercialism, religion in the public square and the meaning of Christmas.

- snip -

To that end, the ads and posters will include a link to a Web site that will seek to connect and organize like-minded thinkers in the D.C. area, Edwords said. Edwords said the purpose of the $40,000 campaign isn't to argue that God doesn't exist or change minds about a deity, although "we are trying to plant a seed of rational thought and critical thinking and questioning in people's minds."

- snip -

Last month, the British Humanist Association caused a ruckus announcing a similar campaign on London buses with the message: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

- snip -

In mid-October, the American Family Association started selling buttons that say "It's OK to say Merry Christmas." The humanists' entry into the marketplace of ideas did not impress AFA president Tim Wildmon. "It's a stupid ad," he said. "How do we define 'good' if we don't believe in God? God in his word, the Bible, tells us what's good and bad and right and wrong. If we are each ourselves defining what's good, it's going to be a crazy world."

Read more: http://enews.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20081111/49191150_3421_13345200811111415703176

[Fridays Child]

1. Without the Bible we wouldn't know good from bad? Right.

:eyes:

Mr. Wildmon would be shocked by what some societies consider good and bad. And they would be equally shocked by his arrogance, no doubt.

[Taverner]

36. Yeah, without the bible how would we know how much we should sell our daughters into slavery for?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. It would be nice if belief were a strictly private matter

while behavior towards others and ourselves remains a public matter.

[Greyskye]

3. Mr. Wildmon might want to familiarize himself with this:

Really Mr. Wildmon? Only the Bible can tell "us what's good and bad and right and wrong"? Idiot.

[defendandprotect]

4. Nice --

[BrklynLiberal]

18. That is a beautiful image....

[intheflow]

21. That's a great graphic.

Seen it many times over the years. I love that includes so many religions you rarely if ever hear about in the West: Zoroastrianism, Jainism, Baha'i. :thumbsup:

Only one thing irks me. It's not Unitarianism, it Unitarian Universalism. The principle they quote (one of 7 they affirm) was added in the mid-1980's, 20+ years after the Unitarian and Universalist churches merged. So that always bugs me when I see this, but then again, I'm weird that way. :)

[Duppers]

24. why do we need any organized religion to tell us anything? nt

.

[Greyskye]

27. as a secular humanist myself, I agree completely.

[bullwinkle428]

30. I think the graphic is specifically designed to be directed at the

"My God can beat up your God" types!

[otherlander]

37. That's pretty.

:)

The only objection I would raise is to the circle labeled "Native Spirituality". To ascribe one spirituality to the many various tribes and nations native to the present United States is as unreasonable as to say "The religion of the people living between Greece and India". Nobody would dream of lumping the later together, but the former often gets misconstrued as a single group, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

[GodlessBiker]

5. "It's going to be a crazy world"? It *is* a crazy world. Any book can tell us...

what is good and bad, but why should we believe any particular book? And if we decide that one particular book is good, aren't we deciding in our own minds what is good, exactly what Mr. Wildmon says will lead to a crazy world?

[Zhade]

10. It's a crazy world BECAUSE people buy into religion, not because they don't!

NT!

[GodlessBiker]

13. Bingo!

[Rage for Order]

6. What a douchebag that guy is

(Fred Edwords, spokesman for the humanist group) said the purpose of the $40,000 campaign isn't to argue that God doesn't exist or change minds about a deity, although "we are trying to plant a seed of rational thought and critical thinking and questioning in people's minds."

Mr. Edwords is saying that anyone who believes in God is not prone to rational thought or critical thinking. That should go over really well.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

25. Is that what he actually said, or is that last line a paraphrase?

IMO, agnosticism is the only "logical" position one can take when it concerns the existence deities. Atheists and Religionists are like different sides of the same coin. :shrug:

[Zhade]

39. Wrong. Atheists do NOT believe there are no gods, we just lack belief in any of them.

NT!

[PerpetuallyDazed]

41. Your "lack of belief" in a God/gods is as consistent as religionists' "belief" in God...

Both are "theisms" (or faith-based systems) which are inherently irrational. Again, this is why agnosticism is the only logical approach.

[roguevalley]

31. yeah. totally converted me. not.

[onehandle]

7. Whatever. Why piss in other people's pools?

Isn't that the main complaint about the religious from the non-religious?

[Zhade]

11. Um, yeah. It's because of their whole, you know, disrespect for the separation of church and state.

We have a legitimate reason to remind people that, while they're free to be believers, they are NOT free to impose that religiosity on others - either by themselves or with the aid of the government.

[Grey]

8. As for "what's good" I sure as Hell

wouldn't take any kind of "god's" word for it.
Have you read that book? Talk about a nasty little bastard!

[Zhade]

12. You're not kidding. If I believed the christian god existed, I'd tell him to fuck off.

He'd be a total insane douchebag... if he existed.

[Zhade]

9. A lot of us don't have to be threatened by mythological deities to be decent people.

I wish these groups would remember to say "gods" instead of "a god", since the latter weakens our argument by presupposing there's only one mythological figure that's unproven.

[pipi_k]

17. Exactly...

My father was an Atheist from as far back as I can remember.

He did have his problems, but he also was one of the most honorable men I've ever known.

And he wasn't being honorable in order to store up Points for Heaven...


In fact, a few months before he died, he jokingly told me that when he did die, he'd probably end up going to Hell but at least he'd be warm there.


So, wherever he is now, I hope he's got an extra sweater, because I don't believe he's in Hell...

[Mesteryo]

29. the problem is..

What's a "decent person" to you is perhaps different than what a "decent person" is to you.

Christians aren't supposed to love others out of fear of God but because we believe it's the right thing to do.

[RavensChick]

14. Terrific. Another idiot waging war on Christmas!

I'm already seeing them appear on Metrobuses in the DC area, and I know for a fact many are not happy about it. It's already a crazy world and this dude is gonna make matters worse!

[GodlessBiker]

15. This dude is bringing some light and reason to the world.

[KakistocracyHater]

20. It is not a 'war on Christmas'

what makes you feel that it is? If I say happy holidays to some that is an attack on their faith. The trouble is that sort has an invasive view of their faith, they insist on finding it in others when all they need to do is find faith in themselves.

[lib_wit_it]

23. Right. This is ridiculous. Go ahead and say

"Merry Christmas." Nobody is stopping you. Pray in school. Nobody is stopping you. Just don't try and make others do it because of your beliefs. The oppressors playing the persecuted. It's infuriating.

I'll bet people who have said "Merry Christmas" to others have been responded to with anything other than "Same to you," or "Merry Christmas to you, too," or similar less than .005 percent of all the times they've said it. But no, it's not enough that they can say it as much as they like, they want to force others to say it as well. Why can't they be happy with "Happy Holidays"? That includes their freakin' Christmas!

It pisses them off that businesses and schools, etc, might prefer to say "Happy Holidays" since many of their customers/students might celebrate another holiday. And they're the very same people who'd be bothered if someone said, "Happy Kwanza" or "Happy Channakuh" to them. Hell, those of us who don't believe in any of that crap could be saying. "Don't say anything about the damn holidays", but we don't. At least I don't know of anyone who does. Wish me happy anything and I'm not really going to get too negative about it, unless it's obvious sarcasm, which "Happy holidays" isn't. It's inclusive. Oh right, that offends them.

There is no bloody "War on Christmas"! And, believe me, with all the frenzied spending that is required for your "religious" holiday, businesses will never let Christmas lose a single battle, much less a war.

Full disclosure: I do celebrate Christmas with my family because it's a tradition, and I get to see all my nieces and nephews and other relatives, however I don't believe in any religious story to go along with it. Especially now that it's turned into an orgy of unnecessary, institutionalized over-spending. So, one part "bah humbug", one part "whatever."

Edited to reformat HTML.
And for spelling.
I guess I'm too tired to be typing!

[pipi_k]

16. What an idiot

In mid-October, the American Family Association started selling buttons that say "It's OK to say Merry Christmas." The humanists' entry into the marketplace of ideas did not impress AFA president Tim Wildmon. "It's a stupid ad," he said. "How do we define 'good' if we don't believe in God? God in his word, the Bible, tells us what's good and bad and right and wrong. If we are each ourselves defining what's good, it's going to be a crazy world."


Some of these people can't even decide what's good or bad even though they HAVE a damned Bible to tell them so.

They just pick and choose what fits their own sick little minds.

Even the people who take the bible literally.


Then they claim it's what Jesus would want.


assholes.

[BrklynLiberal]

19. So this guy Wildmon believes that if it were not for some external force

there is no way to tell good from evil. Man is not intrinsically able to make a distinction?
Ironically, the people I know who are the kindest. most decent people are atheists. They are good
and kind just because it is its own reward. They do not need to be told to be good or they will
go to hell...or some other threat.

[Pastiche423]

22. Right on ya, AHA!

I love and applaud the idea!

[Ian David]

26. They WANTED a "War on chrisTmas," now they finally have one.

I'm glad someone finally decided to "Bring it" to the fundie pricks.

[onager]

28. Strange but true: lots of Muslims celebrate Xmas.

At least they do where I am, in Egypt. I've lived in Alexandria for 3 years now. And every December, many stores put Xmas trees in the window, along with Santa/reindeer and occasionally a creche. You also see lots of "Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas" signs.

I often walk by one of these stores that is almost right next door to a storefront mosque. Talk about a cultural disconnect.

About 5% of Egyptians are Xian, but mostly Copts and they celebrate Xmas in January, not December.

Muslims have 2 big holidays (Eid al-Fitr and Eid al-Adha)when the kids get gifts of new clothes, toys or money. Or more likely these days, credit cards with a preset limit, which my Egyptian friends say their kids prefer. The cards are considered way cooler than real money. Some things really are the same all over world! e.g., teen-agers.

Valentine's Day is also becoming a big deal in Egypt. For a few years it was even celebrated in Saudi Arabia (I lived there for 2 years.) But in Saudi Arabia it has been banned. The matowa (Religious Police) will now severely harass any woman caught wearing red on Feb. 14. And possibly arrest her.

As a grumpy Fundamentalist Atheist myself, it seems to me that the Egyptians are keeping all the good parts of Christmas, like giving gifts. And pretty much ignoring all the bad parts, like Jesus.

:evilgrin:

[roguevalley]

32. I don't agree that Jesus is a bad part. THose who misuse his message,

yes. But not him. IMO.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

34. That's probably because many Muslims respect Jesus as a prophet...

...even if they don't accept him as a Messiah.

Truth be known, if I say "Merry Christmas" to someone, I'm thinking less of Jesus and more of his message of peace and love and tolerance. Sadly, we often lose touch with that when looking for a parking space at the mall, standing in long shopping lines, or frantically trying to find items on someone's wish list.

Unless I'm certain someone is Christian, I wish people "happy holidays", as it's less likely to offend.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.1
==================



This week is our fourth quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

[GoddessOfGuinness]

35. If churches are free to advertise their beliefs, why shouldn't atheists?

[ismnotwasm]

38. He's got it backward

Humans who created "God" recognized "good", and projected that quality onto the various deities they thought explained the workings of the universe.

Good became before God

[boilerbabe]

40. So, what's your viewpoint on this?

Believe or not? I'm leaning towards NOT myself.