SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters

[keroro gunsou]

Source: AP by way of Yahoo

COLUMBIA, S.C. – A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."

The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.

"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_re_us/obama_catholics

---

whatta maroon... with apologies to the good decent maroons out there...

and my parents wonder why i think the catholic church is a load of crap. stuff like this pops immediately to mind.

[Ian David]

1. Oh, yeah. That sounds like a tax-exempt organization to me. n/t

[glinda]

7. Fine them a large amount as a warning and

temporarily pull tax-exemption. Then if they do it again, tax them permanently.

[Ian David]

9. No, I say revoke their corporate charter. n/t

[VeraAgnes]

178. Exactly!

OMG I'm really mad at this one!

[Parche]

14. Lettuce Spray

:spray: :spray: :spray:

Love those ignorant churchers...:hi:

[SayitAintSo]

115. And lead us not into Penn Station ...

:)

[Chipper Chat]

134. ..but deliver us from evil republicans.

:evilgrin:

[glinda]

136. That is soooo funny!

[TheCowsCameHome]

170. ..and Harold be thy name..........

[9119495]

Thy king done come...

[roguevalley]

70. I think I would tell them I was refraining from attending church since priests

can't keep their hands out of people's pants.

[Tigress DEM]

112. Actually it's really nasty and stupid but probably doesn't violate 501c3 status.

He didn't tell anyone they CAN'T vote for Obama, this is after the fact.

He's only suggesting they do pennance or refrain from communion.

BUT since Obama himself is pro-life but simply thinks the law is the law, the priest is off his rocker and should be censured by the Church itself.

What a maroon is right.

[happyslug]

121. Notice he did it AFTER the election, thus NOT part of the election cycle

Thus Father Newman did NOT violate the IRS rules as to tax exempt churches, he said NOTHING during the Campaign for or against any one candidate. Thus he complied with the law.

Now as to Church law, one has to be WARNED before one can be excommunicated. i.e. you must KNOW what you are doing to be a ex-communicable sin BEFORE you do it to be excommunicated. Here that is NOT the case, his Bishop should reverse this action. If the Bishop does NOT a direct appeal to the Vatican on this excommunication can be made.

The Catholic Church is a bureaucratic and legalistic organization, you have the right to some sort of hearing. Many parishes don't give them but any Catholic has a right to a hearing. If none is given then contact your local Parish Chancellor, he has the authority to hold the hearing and reverse this decision by Rev. Newman. This "ruling" should NOT stand, the Bishop should reverse it within the next week, and if the Bishop does NOT do it demand a hearing by the Parish Chancellor.

[Ian David]

199. Hmm... interesting... AFTER the election it's not "Electioneering?"

How sure are you that you're correct?

[happyslug]

203. The rule is for or against a particular Candidate NOT issues.

The IRS rule is simple, it forbids any tax exempt charities, who want tax exemption from the IRS, NOT to endorse or oppose any particular candidate. Issues are a different matter. The church can rally against Abortion, the death penalty etc. The charity can call for people to write their congressmen on these and other issues. The Charity can attack any politician whose position they oppose PROVIDED it is not done in an election campaign from property owned by the Charity or from resources of the Charity (i.e. can not use non taxable funds to attack a candidate, but can set up a taxable subsidy to do so).

Remember also there are two types of Tax exemption. The one most people talk about is the Federal Income Tax Exemption. This exemption applies to the Charity's income AND the donation to that charity. Since there is no Federal Real Estate tax, there is NO exemption from use of the Charities property (Provided it is a public forum open to everyone, most are not). The only issue as to real estate taxation and FEDERAL income taxation is whether tax deducible money was involved as to purchase of the asset, but just because your income comes from other people tax deduction does NOT mean you can NOT speak up on a political subject. While the property can NOT be used for Political purposes, people paid with those donations can (Through NOT on the Charity's non-taxable property).

Now, most states and local governments provide another tax exemption, one from local real estate taxation. Basically the same rules apply (i.e. no political activity on the tax exempt property UNLESS it is open to people with ANY political position including those opposed by the tax exempt charity). The big exemption is if the property makes money, i.e. a commercial Establishment. If that is the case, most (if not all) States and local government call it commercial and real estate taxation must be paid. This is sometime a hard line to draw, for charities can raise money in various ways the only issue is of the method is a commercially viable one (And then only to the Real Estate Taxation, the IRS rules generally exempts such income). For example I know of one Volunteer Fire Department that runs a Carnival each year for two weeks in the summer, the rest of the year the area the Carnival in held is paid parking lot. Given BOTH uses, the lot is taxable, even through all the proceeds go to charity (i.e. the Volunteer Fire Department). Churches often use their parking lots for the same purpose (i.e. a Carnival) but get no money for the rest of the year for it is a parking lot used by the Charity. As such the lot is NOT taxable. These are the easy cases, the harder cases the difference is less clear and a constant form of tax dispute between local government and local Charities. Given that most of these are long standing, most have been resolved by the courts, but every so often something changes and the Charities and local Government are back in court again.

Remember the Government does NOT want tax deduction to be used for electioneering but also does NOT want to interfere with Free Speech. It is a hard line to draw and the above gives you an outline of how the Government (Federal, State and Local) have tried to do it.

[newtothegame]

207. I agree...

which is why demanding that the Mormon church be taxed is a waste of time. They can speak to issues all they want, churches have been doing it for thousands of years: poverty, abortion, homosexuality, what have you.

[Ian David]

214. But a "ballot inititiative" doesn't count as a "candidate" for election? n/t

[Demeter]

2. Assholes Like These Are Why the Catholic Church Is Dying

[Ian David]

3. Oh, I sure hope I live to see The Vatican shutter its doors for the last time. n/t

[cosmicone]

41. No no no no

The Vatican will make an excellent site for a theme-casino. I can picture slot machines in the Sistine chapel, a bar/dance floor under the St. Peter's dome etc. It already has a big hotel!! Plus, it is sovereign and thus Italian laws don't apply there hahaha.

Why shutter the doors?

[bulloney]

47. I've seen seminaries converted to country clubs, like the one near Canton, Ohio.

[happydreams]

204. Heck, they already have Bingo and Las Vegas nights....

:rofl:

[Burma Jones]

63. How will the Irish show their contempt for the English without the RC Church?

[Chan790]

87. Some Irish have never needed the church.

[givemebackmycountry]

91. That would include ME.

The nuns tortured me, and my monsignor couldn't come to perform the last rites on my Grandfather because he was watching a Mets game.
Asshole.

I am Irish, just like my mother who is 77 years old.
We don't agree on much, but what we DO agree on is this...

FUCK THE CHURCH.

[mitchum]

83. It's still not dying quickly enough

[Lugnut]

124. Assholes like these

Are the reason I'm no longer Catholic.

[az chela]

4. Wow now they blackmail their people???

I am so glad I am not into religion as it is all a money making game

[LiberalFighter]

45. That was why religion was orginally started. To control the people. Usually with fear.

[OnyxCollie]

165. I guess the guilt trip of Jesus dying on the cross wasn't enough.

Now they are exploring new avenues of manipulation.

[customerserviceguy]

193. The catholic church

is the official travel agent for guilt trips!

Recovered catholic, here!

[OnyxCollie]

197. That's funny!

I'm a recovered catholic, too. Come on over. We'll have communion wafers and salsa!


:toast: :party: :evilgrin:

[TomInTib]

5. Maybe we should Phelps the f***er.

Just another reason not to get around the Church Types.

[BrklynLiberal]

6. I would love to see no one at all show up for this jerk's next sermon..

[glinda]

12. That could happen

as I am sure some were turned off. I also think the Pope is behind this. Promoting this. I do not like this Pope. There is a portion of the Catholic Church media that has been really upset with the Pope's push to evangelisize the Catholic Church.

[Posteritatis]

8. Uhh, wasn't the Pope himself happy about the election? (nt)

[Chulanowa]

40. I believe he was

He might be a 17th-century fundy goober, but I think he pales in comparison to the almost militant churches of the US.

[Hawkeye-X]

10. Fine. Begin paying taxes, Rev. Newman..

And we'll fine you $100,000,000 for your stupid comment.

Hawkeye-X

[Joanne98]

185. YAY

[kitty1]

11. And should his card carrying pro gun parishoners be excluded too.....

I'm sure Christ wasn't for the arming of America in a big way. How many accidental and deliberate killings were done over last 100 years because of weapons.

[bulloney]

48. How about denying communion to those who favor capital punishment and the Iraq war?

The Catholic church has condemned both of them, too.

It's this selectivity by the far right wing of the church that really turns me off.

[kestrel91316]

13. I trust the church also doesn't want any money from those sinners,

because it's tainted, or blood money, or whatever.

[Bake]

191. Oh no! They STILL want your money.

"I want you to take that SIIIIIIN out of your pocket and put it in the collection plate when it comes around to ya!"

:rofl:

Bake

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

15. Those who didn't support BHO will have 666 on their foreheads

Strange how the very scripture the fundamentalists fear the most, they're bringing about themselves.

[Bill McBlueState]

16. this is exactly why progressives are typically

suspicious of the Roman Catholic church. We can hardly be accused of "bashing" it when its leaders openly oppose our candidates.

[trotsky]

17. The only way this shit will change is for the GOOD Catholics of the world to do something about it.

And that something is to LEAVE THE CHURCH and STOP FUNDING IT. It doesn't matter if your church "isn't like that" - your membership and your money fund Rome and their anti-humanist agenda.

Sadly, few good Catholics are willing to follow through to that level. And so it goes on.

[defendandprotect]

94. Absolutely---!! How does any female support this anti-female church--???...

Worse yet,turn their daughters over to it--???

[MountainLaurel]

126. Stockholm syndrome n/t

[GinaMaria]

157. I have no idea

being Catholic (in the past) severely limited my options as a woman. I walked away a long time ago.

[Jane Austin]

18. Southern White Christian Lady: No tax-exemption for SC parish -

Or how about, no frock for SC priest.

What an idiot.

[smiley]

19. I wonder how many anti-war protests this priest has attended.

Probably none.

I find it very hypocritical the amount of so-called Christians who maintain this mindset, yet still fail to speak out against the American war machine. It's despicable!

[fudge stripe cookays]

20. Obama supporters to SC Priest...

No tithes for you.

Enjoy bankrupting your parish, dickhead.

[DebbieCDC]

21. Take away the tax exempt status

If they are telling people how to vote and threatening to withhold a sacrament due to how a person voted, then please tell me why this organization receives a tax exemption?

The Catholic Church loves nothing more than it does money (raised Catholic, so I speak with some knowledge on this topic). Take away that tax exempt status and you'll hear a change of tune mighty quick. The same for all the other fundies.

[The Wielding Truth]

22. McCain did nothing to stop abortions and never was anti so

his supporters should also be denied Holy Communion. Why do they think that Barack is pro abortion?
I always thought that he personally would prefer that a woman not have to get an abortion, but it is her moral and physical decision.

[and-justice-for-all]

23. What an ignorant bastard...

No one is pro-abortion; Pro-reason yes, but not pro-abortion.

If these charlatans are going to talk politics instead of peace from their pit, they need to be taxed. The only 'evil' thing I see is the church, fuck them and their christ chex!

[Political Tiger]

24. "because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion"

"Supports abortion?" Nobody, including Barack Obama, "supports abortion!" He supports the right for a woman to decide what happens to her body. These hypocrites whine about "material cooperation with intrinsic evil" while lying through their teeth!

So much for that little pesky "lying lips are abomination to the LORD" part of the Bible, eh Rev. Jay Scott?

[LostinVA]

25. That priest is going against Church teachings -- he can't do that

And, PE Obama is FAR from the most "pro abortion" politician -- or even the most "pro choice" candidate running thus year.

The Church is also anti DP. Can McPalin supporters still partake of teh Body of Christ?

His Bishop needs to shut him the fuck up.

[CatholicEdHead]

57. The priest is actually looking for a quick promotion to bishop

and things like this will get the right connected people behind his case for a promotion by pushing what he is pushing.

The parish should just ignore him and all come up for communion. Respect is earned, not given.

[CurtEastPoint]

26. Here's a pic of Sister Newman in all her liturgical glory.

stupid fat fuck

[mitchum]

88. He's just another medieval pervert...who needs to PAY HIS TAXES

[MidwestTransplant]

27. How much leway do Priests have with their Parishes?

[Historic NY]

28. Some one should send this to his superior......wonder if he knows

http://www.archatl.com/archbishops/gregory/

http://www.archatl.com/about/contact.html

[KamaAina]

29. When are we going to see something like this?

"A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for John McCain because the failed Republican presidential candidate supports war, and supporting him 'constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil.'"

Hint: When I see it, I'll look outside and see if any icicles have formed on my lanai.

And for good measure:

"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president,"

FAIL. For openers, he missed all but one of NARAL's votes on choice last year while he was campaigning. So almost any sitting Dem Senator would be a more "radical pro-abortion politician" than Obama. :dunce:

[CTLawGuy]

30. hope they hire a good tax accountant

NT

[superconnected]

31. Who would Christ deny?

[UpInArms]

32. UIA has a message for Rev. Jay Scott Newman

go a whang off in a paper bag you maroon!

When you come out and oppose war and death and pedophilia, you might find a leg to stand on, in the meantime, you are merely a POS grandstander and need to STFU

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Zenlitened]

34. On behalf of atheists, doubters and the religion-free everywhere...

I say thank you, Rev. Newman!

No one... and I mean no one... does more to increase our ranks than a power-mad, bullying, bat-shit crazy priest!

:rofl:

[WillyT]

35. Jesus Fucking Christ

:puke:

[Name removed]

44. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tuvor]

36. & what if you voted for the guy who wanted to send more soldiers to their deaths in an ungodly war?

You get to feast at the Lord's table?!

:crazy:

[rosesaylavee]

37. Wow. Wonder what the diocese will have to say about this.

Can I dare hope that the bishop will reign this nutcase in?

[skepticscott]

You mean the same way

they reined in all of those child rapers? Bet on it....

[rosesaylavee]

156. Well, yeah. I know.

Thought of that after I wrote that. They don't have a very good record do they? And then there was that Grand Inquisition deal too.

Somehow I see another mass exodus of 'fallen away' Catholics away from the RC Church and finding something else to do on Sundays.

Silly man.

[knitter4democracy]

38. Interesting. A Catholic priest friend of mine used the exact same words.

Methinks that was a talking point from Right to Life, then, as my friend's pretty high up in that organization (we have agreed to disagree on this topic most of the time).

Well, I'd just find a new parish. It's not like the RCC still has the residency requirements anymore. People can vote with their feet and go to the nearest parish with a sane priest.

[WildEyedLiberal]

39. This is in direct violation of Church policy and this asshole needs to be censured by the diocese

This is NOT official Church policy. Don't let me interrupt the Catholic hate-fest, though.

[onehandle]

71. Didn't you get the memo?

Now that Democrats are no longer "Underground" we are entering the "Anti-Catholic Underground" phase.

[Bill McBlueState]

131. That name implies special contempt for Catholicism

Many of us find *all* religions silly, at best; destructive, at worst.

[skepticscott]

77. Well, there's OFFICIAL church policy

and then there's real church policy. You'll know which this guy is touting when you compare how the church treats him to how they treat a priest advocating the ordination of women.

[Divine Discontent]

42. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL what a fuggin loser this 'holy' man is

what a fake "Christian" - when you say you're not going to allow Christians to have communion, then you are playing GOD - and therefore - false.

They should demand he be escorted out of his cushy position..... Christians with real compassion for others need to stand up against this hyper political mean-spirited man who refuse these Catholics their communion with their God is disgusting.

Thankfully, I'm a non-church attending gay Christian who doesn't have to put up with this crap because I wouldn't put up with these jerks for a sec...

Many different Yes We Did items in the Obama/Biden section www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[Bill McBlueState]

133. Isn't it routine Catholic practice to deny communion to people?

"when you say you're not going to allow Christians to have communion, then you are playing GOD - and therefore - false"

Non-Catholic Christians are denied communion in Catholic churches. So that's nothing unusual. If what you're saying is true, then the entire Catholic church is composed of fake Christians.

I wish Christians could figure out who's in and who's out. The interdenominational squabbling gets old.

[glinda]

138. Traditionally, it is if you have "sinned" and not gone to confession that

they hope you do not receive communion. But see, it used to be your conscience but now they want to "own" your conscience.

[Patiod]

177. My friend is denied communion for marrying a divorced man

When they went to join the parish and sign their son up for CCD, the priest told her she was not to receive communion.

Her husband the divorced man? The priest sill hasn't said anything to him about not coming to communion.

How nuts is that?

[glinda]

217. Real nuts

It appears to me since I have been out of the Church loop for many many years, that things have gotten really weird.

[intheflow]

144. Seriously.

If Jesus was really the guy who would unite the world in peace, why would his followers have broken into more sects than any other religion? :shrug:

[tblue37]

43. Deprive his church of its tax exempt status. nt

[Divine Discontent]

46. exactly - this is shameful - and clearly a problem. eom

[crim son]

49. More proof that leaving the Church was the right thing to do, morally.

And no, I didn't join any other Christian church, and never will.

[Tuvok Obama]

50. bald men fighting over a comb

hehehe

[ann_american2004]

51. IT CAN'T BE MORE PLAINLY OBVIOUS

That the sacraments mean nothing in the church now. They have no "special super powers". Such a priest cannot keep the holy spirit from those who follow Christ. Rome has become the pharisees Jesus protested.

[intheflow]

52. Compare this with what Joe Biden's local bishop said on the subject:

"Monsignor W. Francis Malooly, the Catholic bishop of Wilmington in Delaware, said he would not ban Joe Biden, the Vice President elect and a Roman Catholic, from taking Communion because of his stand on issues such as stem cell research and abortion. Mr Biden, a Senator from Delaware, lives in the Wilmington diocese.

"The bishop was quoted as saying that "the Eucharist must not be politicised". He added that the job of a Catholic prelate was not to "alienate people" but rather to "change their hearts and minds". A number of Catholics in the senior ranks of the US Democratic Party take a liberal pro-choice stand on abortion, including Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, and John Kerry, the former Presidential candidate who has been tipped by some to become Secretary of State in the Obama administration."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5139405.ece

[onehandle]

65. You obviously didn't get the DU memo.

All Catholic hierarchy are the same.

And isolated wackos are representative of the entire church.

Here at Anti-Catholic Underground.

[skepticscott]

85. And how many members of that virtuous church hierarchy

knew that hundreds, thousands of children were being raped by priests who were then being quietly shuffled off to find new victims, and how many spoke up publicly about it before the (mean, nasty rabidly anti-Catholic) media did their job and exposed it all? Answers: Lots and none. And they just kept isolating those wackos with more and more innocent children.

[freethought gal]

127. Yes, I am anti-Catholic

And every other BS religion on this planet. I guess the truth hurts.

[Bill McBlueState]

135. that's the point I was trying to make

"Anti-Catholic" Underground is too limiting & gives special attention to one particular brand of it. It should be "Anti-Bullshit" Underground.

[RollWithIt]

103. DU Meme is hate Catholics I guess.... this thread makes the front page, WTF?

Wonder if the moderators bothered to read half the responses....

[freethought gal]

128. I don't hate Catholics

I just hate your church. And if you have bothered to pay attention to what has been going on in the Church for the past thousands of years, you would too. No humane person can tolerate such a violent and corrupt institution.

[RollWithIt]

129. Whatever....

So I'm supposed to be responsible for something 1000s of years ago? What have your ancestors done?

[onehandle]

140. Blanket hatred of religion and the religious gets a pass at DU.

Always has. Catholics get the lions share.

[intheflow]

143. Erm, I think fundie Protestant evangelicals get the brunt of DU's religious ire.

And deservedly so.

[onehandle]

145. That's not a specific religion.

And many refer to Catholics as fundies these days as well.

Mention fundies in your subject line, gets a little rise.

Mention the word "Catholic" in your subject line and All hell breaks loose.

[donco6]

200. So, let's hear your defense of the good bishop.

Call me curious.

[AngryOldDem]

212. The Church asks for it when its leaders pull bullshit like this. n/t

[Vidar]

198. There are a lot of good priests out there & the Catholic Curch still does good

for the homeless etc. Thanks for the effective counter example.

[AndyTiedye]

53. NO TAX EXEMPTION FOR YOU!

If you want to make your church an arm of the RNC, you are free to do so.
If you do, the IRS is obliged to revoke your tax exemption.

[RedCloud]

54. The competition has arrived...

The guy below was:

The Prince of Peace
The Good Shepherd
The Son of Man
and
The Savior

Long before someone else had any claim to fame.

[Baby Snooks]

55. Ignorance of the masses...

The parish priests in California were probably warning parishioners that they needed to vote for Proposition 8 - and half of them will molest the parishioners children if they haven't already.

I just avoid people who tell me they're Christian. Or Jewish. Or Muslim. Or Buddhist. Or Hindu. Ignorance of the masses is what is destroying this country more than anything else at this point.

And of course we have five Catholic Supreme Court justices. No doubt at some point they will be threatened with excommunication if they don't overturn Roe v Wade and their ruling on sodomy and anything and everything the Catholic Church decides is against its teaching. Then no doubt it will have the justices just ban all other religions. At which point the Mormons will probably declare a holy war on Catholics.

According to the prophecies of St. Malachi our current pope is the last pope. Let's hope St. Malachi was right.

[Not Me]

56. I was told (nearly ten years ago this month) that I was excommunicated

from the RC church. Our parish: 1.)freely gave communion to anyone who came to the table out of love of Christ, 2.) Blessed gay unions, 3.) allowed women on the altar to read the gospel.

The pastor and staff were all fired and nearly 800 people excommunicated.

And we haven't looked back.

[onehandle]

59. What parish was that? nt

[Not Me]

109. Corpus Christi parish, Rochester, NY

It regrouped to form Spiritus Christi Church under the Old Catholic governance.
see: http://www.spirituschristi.org

[GoddessOfGuinness]

113. I would like to shake your hand

...along with the hands of the others who were excommunicated. It takes tremendous strength of character to practice Christianity when the leader of your church is telling you not to. :hug:

[ladywnch]

58. with the numbers of the Catholic church continuing to dwindle in

rapid fashion the Church might want to rethink this kind of behavior. They appear to be on the fast track to irrelevance.

[PatrynXX]

60. as a Lutheran I would concur that the Catholic church is full of crap.

that said.... grape juice or real wine? Hey if your 13-14 years old, and you can legally drink wine eh why not :) Almost 20 yrs ago (1990)

I see the idiot here hasn't been listening to Obama. Nor have the legions of other idiots in "I'm poor but I'm buying a gun before Obama takes them away" do'h.. Homer Simpson get back here.

[14thColony]

61. I am reminded now of the words of Brother Jethro Tull

when he said, yay verily and I quote:

"If Jesus saves -- well
He'd better save Himself
From the gory glory seekers
Who use His name in death.
Oh Jesus save me!"

Can I get an amen?

[Bill McBlueState]

137. Amen, Brother J! n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. Oh good lord

My dear father, a devout Catholic, is rolling in his grave.

[JerseygirlCT]

64. "pro-abortion"

Good grief, what a bunch of ignorant asses.

[gauguin57]

66. Hello? IRS? Yeah ... you might want to pay a visit to St. Mary's Catholic Church ...

... they're basically a hate club cleverly disguised as a tax-exempt organization ... hey, thanks. 'preciate that.

[llmart]

67. And just how would they know.....

if you voted for Barack Obama when you go up for communion? Are they going to ask? Silly Catholic rules. If you go to confession and tell the priest that you voted for Obama, can you then go up to communion? How many times do you have to go back to confession to confess you voted for Obama? Once a week? Just once? What a goofy religion.

[LynnTheDem]

68. What would Jesus do?

Answer: the opposite of what this "priest" has done.

[onehandle]

69. One priest in One church in One red state.

Don't pin this on the whole church or on Catholics.

Every religion... every organization has its crazy fringe elements.

[Goblinmonger]

171. Yeah, one priest

who is very much like asshole archbishop Burke from St. Louis who told Kerry he couldn't take communion in 04 because of his abortion views or likewise asshole archbishop O'Malley of Boston who told anyone who supported pro-choice stances that they were in a grave state of mortal sin and shouldn't take communion.

Get off your high horse. The Catholic Church has problems from the top down. I know you and others on the thread want to climb up on the cross and scream persecution for nasty things said about the Catholic Church, but the fucking truth is a clear defense against libel. Maybe if the Catholic hierarchy stopped doing such damn crazy shit, they might take a little less crap.

[RollWithIt]

72. As a Catholic, I don't understand that kind of political catholicism and I've never seen it....

I grew up in NE Ohio. I attended Catholic Grade Schools and went to a Catholic High School (Brothers of the Holy Cross, Same as Notre Dame) and I have never seen a priest make political statements concerning Democrats or Republicans in Church. I now reside in Florida. I attend a Catholic Church down here. The pastor here has never done that either. In fact, I suspect several of my priests, brothers, nuns, and sisters over the years were actually very liberal people. Most large organizations have a few extremely bad apples. Hopefully most in DU understand that.

[glinda]

139. I agree with you

as I had never seen that either in all the years that I went. Of course I haven't gone in about 25 years but have gone with my folks around Christmas a couple of times.

[AllyCat]

73. But voting for someone that supports war and torture is just fine and dandy

F*** the Catholic Church. This kind of crap is just one of the many reasons I no longer practice this, or any Christian religion. The things Jesus taught were deep and meaningful. These religions aren't.

[123infinity]

74. I have recently become a supporter of retroactive abortion for priests.

:grr:

[underpants]

75. How would he know? Just lie to him

:shrug:

[roamer65]

76. Religion is poison.

...and so is this fucker.

[sasquatch]

78. Wow the Catholic church is so well established in SC that they can be racist like the rest

Where's Martin Luther whe we need him?

[nini]

79. I know 2 priests who voted for Obama

I posted this in another thread. Both of these priests voted for Obama and know there are too many social issues out there to be a one issue voter. I'm sure they will continue to give and receive communion with a clear conscience.

There are plenty of Catholics out there who are troubled by the abortion issue but have the sense to not fall for this crap. They know the Democrats are the ones who try to take care of the poor etc.

This priest is an idiot.

[RedLetterRev]

80. This is how Unitarians are made n/t

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rateyes]

82. Yeah, priesty, and you shouldn't be serving communion until you

repent of your sin for voting for a womanizer, gambling addicted piece of lying ass shit.

[mmonk]

84. Not sure he would have that authority.

Priests are moved from parish to parish. I don't know if he can make such a unilateral decree.

[olddad56]

86. Makes even the non believers feel sorry for Jesus.....

He was the 'Prince of Peace', yet look at all of the atrocities that have been committed in his name. This priest in South Carolina may be religious but he is by no means a in tune with his own spirituality. His message is fear based, he is afraid of Barrack Obama. God's message is always rooted in love, because that is what God is. Pure and simple God is love. When you are feeling love in your soul, you in touch with your own spirituality and when you are feeling fear, you are not feeling your Self. You are having an out of body experience, you are stuck in your head. And you are expressing your fear as anger or hatred, or some form of negative emotion. Just my opinion.

[myrna minx]

89. Can anyone link to his outrage about the Church's criminal and moral

failing and cover up of the rape and molestation of REAL LIVING CHILDREN by predators? :eyes: :puke: Oh that's right, they don't matter.

[ShadowLiberal]

90. And yet the Roman Catholic Church has said they'll probably let Biden, a catholic, take communion

Me thinks some priest didn't get the memo.

[investintrains]

92. war is mass abortion.... air strikes stop beating hearts

war is mass abortion.... air strikes stop beating hearts

Perhaps the priest would care to expand his definition of prolife
to include the victims of McCain's bombings of women in lightbulb
factories, the victims of the Republican executioners on the 'Supreme'
Court, and in Texas etc.

http://catholicveg.blogspot.com

[Libertas1776]

93. Hey Father Guido Sarducci...

you are a hypocrite papal douche nozzle. What if I was the one up there in those vestments and said to my parishioners that if they voted for McCain, they better not dare take the host on account of McCain, like Obama, supports the death penalty (against church teaching) supports the war (against the Vatican)and opposes universal health care (the largest catholic countries: Ireland, Italy, etc all have universal health care)

Go sell crazy some place else!

P.S. No offense meant to the comedy act of Father Guido Sarducci, love him.

[ksimons]

95. But let those priests that molested kids give out the communion. Makes sense to me.

[racaulk]

96. Can we remove these fuckers' 501(c)(3) status YET????? n/t

[felinetta]

97. I gave up Catholicism for Lent many years ago and never have

felt better! This is rich coming from a community of pedophiles and have altar boys in dresses.

Who says I'm pro-abortion, I'm pro-choice you wanker Catholics. Just shut up. And while you're at it, what about helping Nazis in WW II? Oh yeah, you're pure as driven snow.

[still_one]

98. It is actually quite simple. If people believe in that view, they should continue to attend

those that don't shouldn't

[still_one]

114. I have an idea, anyone who supports the war in Iraq should not get communion, will they go for that?

How about anyone who covers up child molestation shouldn't get communion?

[kikiek]

99. I now believe that religion cannot be impartial. If they can't stay out of politics, then they have

to go. Religion is far too powerful in this country. I would love to see it just go away if this is what they plan on doing, dictating laws of the country according to their own beliefs.

[Danchi]

100. No communion for Obama supporters

I continue to be amazed how the IQ's of supposable intelligent people continue to drop and quickly. First of all Obama is not Pro-abortion. He is Pro-Choice. As he said "No one is Pro-abortion". My heart goes out to people who can't see past the control apparatus of all religious institutions. They are not about aligning people with the Divine Source, they are all about power & control. My apologies to all of the religious persuasion. If it works for you, I'm happy for you. Obviously, some religions enjoy the control they have over their congregations. Power and control. That's all it's about. There is a 106 year of Nun in Rome,cloistered for many years that is a US citizen. She voted for the first time since the 40's or 50's and she registered to vote again only so she could vote for Obama. Is she going to be denied the sacraments? Since she made international news will the narrow minded clergy of the Catholic church deny her the dignity and respect of being buried in sacred grounds because she voted for Obama? We're moving into an age of enlightenment and it's time for all or us to wake up. Many Eastern Astrologers see Obama's victory as a move to a higher level of energy on the planet. This will be the ultimate trickle down effect. They also see the demise of the Catholic Church, by their own doing. Sorry again for those of the Catholic or religious persuasion.

[enki23]

101. good ol' "faith"

.

[hangman86]

102. Hellooooooo Newman!

You'd think with the amount of parishioners the Catholic church has lost in the past years that they'd be allowing Satan-worshiping serial killers to receive that gross, stale, packaging foam they call "the body of Christ." If they don't stop clinging to abortion and gay marriage, and continue to ignore issues such as war, human rights, poverty, genocide, immigration, etc. Then they'll find themselves with churches overstocked with unwanted crunchy bread.

Their wine sucks too. Crushed raisins and vomit I believe are the primary ingredients. :puke:

[ladym55]

104. Let's take a quick look at a few OTHER Catholic priests ...

John Dear ... who went to prison because of his actions against war and weapons and the US role in warmongering. The Berrigan brothers who stood up against the Vietnam War and inspired John Dear ... The late Henri Nouwen who wrote and wrote and protested and called for an end to nuclear weapons and called for social justice, especially for those opposed in South America ...

Rev. Jay Scott Newman is a jerk and an embarrassment. However, not all Catholic priests are jerks. Some are courageous and DO attempt to live out their faith.

John Dear said something like Jesus MEANT what he said in the Sermon on the Mount.

[fortyfeetunder]

105. This is just ridiculous.

How a person votes is their business. The priest should stick to his holy business.

[DeSwiss]

106. What an asshat!!!

- And you should see what they're saying about this turkey over at the http://web.mac.com/cicdc/iWeb/KStreet/CICpod/C9534797-7851-4077-B09A-8901AAEC4F15.html">Catholic Information Center. They may have to take his page down if it gets much worse!!!!


K&R!!!

[Blaze Diem]

125. WOW..Reading posts from your link.. This priest is being handed his ass..

THanks for the link.
I feel much better.

[DeSwiss]

141. De Nada

But personally, I'd like it a whole lot better if they just took his advice and stayed home.



- Let's see how he likes the sounds of empty collection plates.

[Ishoutandscream2]

107. Not this shit again!

I mean, really, this shit has got to stop.

[Sheets of Easter]

108. It's time to start taxing these assholes.

[AzNick]

110. No tax exemption for any religion, that's what I say

Religions & churches should not conduct business.

Unless it is money to fix the church or lodge and feed the non-working clergy (like nuns and monks), churches should not be allowed to conduct business, meaning no media, no property ownership except that of their church.

If they want to sell books and CDs, fine, but the portion of the money not used to do the stuff described above, should be taxed.

[RoccoR5955]

111. This is what happens when people believe in a talking snake! n/t

[ACTION BASTARD]

116. I just baptized my daughter this week and shit like this makes me question why

the fuck do I even bother with these animals? No wonder I read Dawkins.

[trickyguy]

117. I'd like to put a condom on his tongue. Another raging religious asshole.

And the people in his congregation who buy his shit don't have any souls,

far as I can tell. And even less intelligence. What a load.:evilgrin:

[Juan_de_la_Dem]

118. The last time I checked the body of christ tastes like a postage stamp

Sorry for those who may be offended, but this offends me.

[nichomachus]

119. The Catholic Church is in a race to the bottom with the Mormons

[Zambero]

120. I recall the anti-Catholic paranoia during the 1960 election campaign

The fear was that if JFK was elected the Catholic Church would start calling the shots. That was nonsense, and Kennedy quickly proved them wrong. Fast forward to 2008, and the Church seems hell bent on resurrecting this old myth, only this time it's being revamped to become the truth. This is the same organization that still condemns birth control in an overpoulated world, and took great pains to shield thousands of pedophile priests, allowing them to seek out new victims. As a former Catholic, it's clear that the Church is becoming increasingly irrelevant. Why not just mass excommunicate the 54% who supported Obama? Because the Church cannot permit a 54% drop-off in donations, that's why. Again, money trumps (so-called) morality.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HEyHEY]

123. righto, time for the IRS to come knocking

[NoodleyAppendage]

130. TAX THIS PARISH INTO THE GROUND. You want war religie? You got it.

I'm SO FRIGGIN' SICK of Xtian radicals getting away with politicking from the pulpit.

J

[truthisfreedom]

132. No tax-free status for the PROTECTORS of CHILD MOLESERS.

They want to play rough? Put me in charge of them. I'll show you rough. We should drag every one of those abusers out in front of a grand jury.

[hatrack]

142. Right-O! Let's do this, and cut Acorn's funding, but decades of child rape?

We'd better wait for a while before admitting there might be a problem.

Maybe we can hire some consultants, just in case coverups and lies don't work.

[Lana]

146. Father Newman's Website

Here is Father Newman's website if anyone is interested in sending him an email. As a Catholic, I intend to write and tell him he is in danger of alienating those who remain faithful to the Church despite all the recent accusations against so many parish priests across the country.

http://web.mac.com/jayscottnewman/Site/A_Parish_Priest.html

[tiddlywinks]

147. I like his "Random Thoughts" page; it's empty. (nt) !!!

[CatholicEdHead]

194. It looks like the old Latin Rite is performed there

not the modern form, in his pics he is standing with his back to the people. I would expect many people got sick from that much incense used.

[melm00se]

148. i see no big issue here

It's their club...you want to belong to their club, you have to follow their rules.

going to church and belonging to a church is an entirely voluntary act.

if you don't agree with the club, the exits are clearly marked and there are plenty of other clubs out there willing to accept you as a member.

[Lana]

149. Well....

I have to disagree. If you're born into a Catholic family, go to Catholic school for 12 years and have it ingrained into you, it's not so simple to join another "club." I don't know if you're Catholic or not, but it's a way of life, rather than just a religion. The nuns "beat" it into you with things like the "Pagan" Line, where we'd have to go stand if we got a religion question wrong. Not fun. And not something you can easily walk away from. I did it, but still sometimes have guilt feelings (another big thing in the Catholic religion - guilt).

[melm00se]

153. I too am Catholic

but there are many folks who have left the Church and joined other churches due to these differences in opinion.

[VWolf]

150. This "club" doesn't pay taxes.

Hey Reverend, why don't you stuff it???

[melm00se]

155. they are 501c3

non-profits...just like ACORN (and plenty of other organizations - religious or not).

I am going to assume that you don't belong to the Conservative Caucus or, if you did, you left it when your views shifted away from theirs.

If your opinions/viewpoints/priorities change over time, so should your membership in certain organizations.

[kikiek]

161. Fear keeps people tethered to the church. Threats of Hell will work wonders.

The church gets ya when you're young, and does all it can to make sure you're scared enough to do as they say. Religious beliefs are not as easily discarded because they have been reinforced over and over. Not unlike brainwashing. Very different from other 501c3's.

[kikiek]

151. Turn your brain in at the door. We'll tell you how to think based on what keeps us

powerful. That club sounds like a wonderful "club" for a Democracy. Not to mention it flies in the face of why they are tax exempt.
How silly.

[racaulk]

152. If the church were not tax-exempt, I would agree with you.

But if the church, or any church for that matter, wants to use its clout to influence the government, then they can help fund it.

[melm00se]

158. Witholding sacraments

for members who are not in a state of grace has been the Church's stance for, literally, centuries and the Church defines what acts are acceptable or unacceptable.

The Church withholds sacraments from any (in their eyes) unrepentant sinners and to the Catholic Church abortion is an extremely abhorrent act and active approval of that behavior is a seriously ecumenically grave matter.

[racaulk]

162. I don't disagree with you on that at all.

And as the church defines which activities are acceptable of its membership and which are not, the government also defines which activities are tax-exempt and which are not. By threatening to withhold sacraments from its members, the church is trying to influence the behavior of its membership as it relates to our government, IMHO. And this is not an isolated incident specific to the Catholic church--other examples: the Mormon church's recent involvement in California's Prop 8, the minister at the Baptist church in Waynesville, NC saying that those who voted for Kerry are no longer welcome, etc. When a church tries to use its clout to influence our government, then it shouldn't be able to hide behind the shield of tax-exemption from that same government.

[treestar]

174. But supporting a particular candidate is a step away from that

Obama's not Catholic. And there are other issues.

I always wonder why the church thinks it has authority to tell you who to vote for.

It goes back to the idea of control. In medieval times, it worked. But now, the church cannot expect to tell people the world over what to think.

And why does it focus on this one issue. Why for instance, does it not forbid you to vote Republican on account of unjust wars or failure to help the poor?

[slackmaster]

154. The issue is that US dioceses of the RCC all operate as tax-exempt non-profit organizations

The IRS Code specifically and clearly prohibits them from engaging in partisan political activity.

Their activities in this election clearly crossed the line between issue advocacy and partisanship. They're cheating on their taxes.

[melm00se]

159. not really

they would equally apply this "penalty" to ANY pro-choice candidate, regardless of political affiliation.

[slackmaster]

160. As long as the speak in general terms and don't mention candidates by name they are OK

Once they start saying things like "If you vote for Obama you are going to Hell", or words to that effect, they are in violation of their tax status IMO.

[kikiek]

163. Really. One of the churches in my area recently had a sign that said

"Vote for Christian Leaders". Nothing like promoting hate and intolerance. Real Jesusy isn't that? Of course once they are all "Christian" leaders the sign will read...Vote for Evangelical leaders...or Vote to keep Mormon leaders out of office...or Catholics will lead us all to hell. Actually religion will lead us all to hell on earth. That is why our founding fathers were very wise. They remembered what it was like.

[mrs_p]

179. love it or leave it

isn't exactly true to the history of the church. for two thousand years, catholic scholars have tried to discern God's will. rules have been changed (and changed) over time. also, the church isn't just a "club" - it is the dynamic body of christ's people (at least that is what i learned in catholic school from grade school thru college - and even when i became a nun).

[meow2u3]

164. I noticed one thing: most of these uber-conservative priests are hiding something

I'm not one to judge all priests by the actions of a few pedophiles who sneaking through the seminary unnoticed, but I've noticed one pattern: the link between fundamentalist religious views of priests and pedophilia. We need to investigate Opus Dei for any shady practices they keep a closely guarded secret. OD is one of those organizations which is so secretive and fundie it makes me wonder what kind of shady practices they're keeping under wraps.

With very few exceptions, the pedo priests who were exposed espouse extreme conservative, fundamentalist views: hardline anti-abortion to the point of denying Communion to Democrats, but not pro-choice Republicans; an authoritarian attitude towards women and children, looking down on them as if they were inferior to men, that "strict father" morality carried to an extreme. That priest should follow Christ's--and even the bishops'--advice against single-issue voting.

STP to Father Neuman: you forgot Christ preached, and practiced, forgiveness. What about "judge not, lest you be judged", Father? Do you remember Christ didn't appoint you to sit in judgment of your fellow human beings? Who died and crowned you King of Heaven?

[wake.up.america]

166. You would think theses people had mote important things to do ,,,

than behave so hatefully.

The Neo-Cons and the likes of Palin have released a Pandora's box of hate and stupidity.

[Phred42]

167. Because THAT's what Jesus would do?

The Church as Political activist weapon?!

Ok - no Tax exemptions

It's time to get serious with these idiots

[peacetalksforall]

168. Don't you just love how the Catholic Church separates church and state in some parishes?

This is apalling. The Catholic Church is in trouble if they don't return to neutrality.

Render onto God.......

Someone needs to send tham back to school.

[TheCowsCameHome]

169. Better get the door, Rev. - the IRS doesn't want to be kept waiting

[pipi_k]

172. Someone else mentioned the closing of seminaries...

I've seen the same thing happen in my area. One seminary I used to live adjacent to was sold to a firm that turned it into condos.

There have been multiple closings of some Catholic churches in the area...


It appears the CC is cutting off its own nose here, and is suffering the consequences, but, like Bush, is "staying the course" as if it's still dealing with ignorant peasants whose lives are virtually ruled, day in and day out, year after year, by the rules of the CC.

A lady I worked with told me about something that happened with one of her Catholic friends back in the late 50s - early 60s. This friend and her husband had two children. One day they were visited by their Parish priest, who told them that they basically weren't doing their part in procreating more children. Like they OWED it to the Parish...indeed, to the Church itself...to have as many children as they possibly could.

As I recall, this lady and her husband threw the priest out of their home with some rather salty language and never went back to his Parish again.


For me, hearing stories like that only further strengthened my deep disgust for organized religion...


As a means to control the populace, they worked for a long, long time...I hope times are changing.

[Wizard777]

173. You can still get communion if you know how to work the system.

You go to the altar and tell them you voted for McCain. So you take communion. Then you go to confession and confess to telling a lie. Say your Hail Mary's and everything is kosher.

[paparush]

175. Does he serve communion to sex-abusing priests?

[mn9driver]

176. Pope Benny's guidance on the subject: This is approved by the Vatican

Far from being an aberration, this position is very close to what the Pope believes, as evidenced by his writing on the subject when he was still Cardinal Ratso (this link is to a pro-life news web site):
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/08061208.html

Some excerpts, in the Pope's own words:

"A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate's permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia....

however,

"When a Catholic does not share a candidate's stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons....

but,

"Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion.... There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia."

This is pretty black and white. The Catholic Church feels it is appropriate to deny communion to people who vote for a pro-choice politician, even if that's not why they voted for him.

:puke:

[Deep13]

180. Does anyone still doubt that Catholicism is incompatible with democracy?

And before you give me the bad apple argument, I submit that this and even more coercive measures have been the Catholic Church's normal operating procedure for centuries and that it remains so where ever that are still able to do so.

[shrike]

215. Oops. Someone should have clued Obama in, before he put Biden on the ticket

[Javaman]

181. so either this guy has some sort of magic Dem detector or he's a massive racist.nt

[LatteLibertine]

182. They ought to concentrate

on getting rid of the child molesters instead of quietly moving them from parish to parish. Last I heard one of the Bishops who was overseeing one of the worst areas for these offenses was made a Cardinal. Also didn't they hold a meeting to see how many kids you could molest before you lost the good guy badge? Disgusting.

This church has nerve talking about, "cooperating with evil".

I'll start giving them credit when they put these people out of the church and offer them up to the authorities.

[Autonomy]

183. To all:

Please do not slander, scapegoat, or otherwise generalize this guy to the whole of the Church. Remember that there have been/are many priests who have marched for peace and civil rights, and are very liberal on many issues.

I would suggest narrowing comments to this particular priest and this particular subject.

Just my thoughts.

[shrike]

188. What makes this all the more ironic , to me, is that Biden is Catholic

As is Kucinich (so I've been told); Ted Kennedy, one of DU's heroes, and apparently, most of the politically active Kennedy clan.

[Deep13]

190. This is the Cath. Church's normal operating procedure...

...where ever they can get away with it. They refused communion to Kerry supporters 2004. They have been railing legal abortion and birth control for over a century. They have railed against women's rights (and still exclude women from authority) for centuries. And in countries where they are able to write law, they are happy to do it.

[Joanne98]

184. Doesn't Catholic Charities get federal money? Cut them off!

[NorthCarolina]

186. I hope the outcome of this is that NOBODY in the church takes communion

that should send a worthwhile message.

[codjh9]

187. What an insane motherfucker. My mom and I quit going to Catholic church when I was 14...

[Mad_Dem_X]

189. Nice way to turn people away from church

Idiot. What business is it of his who they vote for? I'm so glad I no longer attend church. Preaching politics from the pulpit is WRONG.

[Bake]

192. The Church making itself more and more irrelevant.

I hope its parishioners wake up and realize they don't need this shit.

Bake

[TrogL]

195. Heresy

Plus the title is misleading.

The single purpose of Communion is "do this in remembrance of me".

[sakabatou]

196. Since they're doing this

Make the church pay taxes.

[mth44sc]

201. Just FYI

http://www.catholic-doc.org/Statement%20on%20Voting%20and%20Communion.pdf

[happydreams]

202. You know what gets me, what really gets me about all of this?......

Why in the flying fuck do people waste their time and energy, and charity involved in these dead end organizations like churches that require acceptance of a lie (the Earth was created 4.7 thousand years ago) where its leaders use power attained from this fraud, on going for thousands of years, to browbeat their flock to conform to their political will. All the while so many of these "priests"/shamans/elixir salesman/frauds are molesting children.

The whole Catholic Church is one big goddamn fraud based on the most obvious lie! Why in the fuck do you participate in it?????

Or maybe the question should be: Why do you think so little of yourself that you feel you must put up with this shit??

[1monster]

205. Wasn't one of the arguments against a Catholic President prior to JFK winning, the one where

such a Prez would have to choose whether he was a citizen of the U.S. first or a Catholic first?

Sounds to me like this priest is trying to make his congregation make that same decision.

Church and State are separate in this country for very good reasons.

Beside, religion is a private experience. The chuch and suggest and try to guide, but in the end, one MUST make one's own decisions and live with one's own conscience, not church dictum.

[KakistocracyHater]

206. how does using birth control put one's soul at risk?

I've never heard an explanation for this: how exactly does that work? & how does God tell the difference between using bc & the death penalty?

[slackmaster]

208. Some BC methods, e.g. the pill, are regarded as abortificiants

They prevent a fertilized egg, which supposedly has a soul, from developing, so it dies.

[KakistocracyHater]

210. where in the Bible does it say

a fertilized egg has a soul? In that time they thought the man had it all & the woman was just a recepticle, at least that's what I recall of history.

[slackmaster]

211. I'm sure someone who wants to make that point can find Biblical passages to support it

Personally I don't believe in things that can't be weighed or otherwise measured.

[The Stranger]

209. The Anti-Choice Nut-Fucks are coming out in droves right now and everywhere.

[AngryOldDem]

213. What fries my ass is this....

They are framing the argument in this way -- I have seen it too many times to dismiss it as someone's bassackward reasoning: If you voted for Obama, you are SELFISH, and you put your MONEY above everything else -- namely, the unborn.

What these assholes don't get is that our very real concerns about being able to provide for our families, and for our own survival, are also "pro-life" issues. If I fucking don't have a job, and fucking don't have an income, then HOW IN THE FUCK can I take care of a kid? Christ in a sidecar...I'm not making any plans to got to the French Riviera anytime soon. I do, however, wonder if I'll have a job this time next year, and, if I do, I wonder whether I'll have any kind of health care or other benefits that go along with it. Retirement??? Christ...one problem at a time.

I wish the Church would just go away. Die, already. There are times when I can't tell if its an organized religion or a members-only club. But you know, if they kick everybody out who doesn't toe their particular fucked-up line, that will more or less put them out of business anyway...all that will be left will be the true whack-jobs that will turn on each other, and then that will be that.

[dysfunctional press]

216. by that logic- do people who give money to catholic churches support child molestation..?

:shrug:

[AngryOldDem]

218. Yeah, in a way, they do.

The Church has to pay its insurance premiums somehow. (Although it was getting to be tough for some dioceses to even get insurance.)

What's more, priests who have been removed from "active duty" but have not yet been laicized remain on the payroll until they are defrocked, a process that can, in some cases, take years. Not only do they continue getting paid by their respective dioceses, some churches have to continue paying for their room and board, as well. Part of the collection goes toward salary.

That's why for a LONG time I didn't give the Church one fat dime.

So while the very nature of child molestation disgusts me, I do support it in some small fashion by what's in my collection envelope, since I have no true control over how the money is spent.

But the issue here is a priest telling his flock how to vote. There are some out there who would cheerfully jump over the side of a cliff if their priests told them to. This is undue political influence from the pulpit, for one; for another, it shows total ignorance behind the reasons why his parishioners supported Obama. Most are probably one step away from being economically destitute. They are most likely not greedy, selfish bastards looking to get even more -- most likely, they are struggling to hang on to what they have. It has NOTHING to do with putting mammon over God or babies, or whatever convoluted logic this man is using. The concept in this climate should not be that hard to grasp. That's why I find this latest twist on the "pro-life" argument to be so repellent.