"Top Republican Senators Oppose Automaker Bailout"

[Mr Rabble]

Source: Associated Press


"Sens. Richard Shelby of Alabama and Jon Kyl of Arizona said it would be a mistake to use any of the Wall Street rescue money to prop up the automakers. They said an auto bailout would only postpone the industry's demise.

"Companies fail every day and others take their place. I think this is a road we should not go down," said Shelby, the senior Republican on the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee.

"They're not building the right products," he said. "They've got good workers but I don't believe they've got good management. They don't innovate. They're a dinosaur in a sense."

Added Kyl, the Senate's second-ranking Republican: "Just giving them $25 billion doesn't change anything. It just puts off for six months or so the day of reckoning."




Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081116/ap_on_go_co/auto_bailout

---

Why dont they just come out and say it:

"We now have a really great opportunity to destroy the UAW and in effect the unionized workforce in the US. We cant let this chance get away."

This should be one of the core issues of the Democratic majority. Is anyone other than Bernie Sanders(I) going to mention it?
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[Joanne98]

1. This is the only part of the bailout I agree with. OF COURSE, they're going to oppose it.

SOCIALISM FOR THE RICH ONLY!

[ColoradoMagician]

41. Top Republican Senators On Wrong Side Of Issue Again

Alternate headline.

[democraticco12]

62. They hate unions

That's the only reason they opposed this particular measure.

[classysassy]

88. You are so right

if there were unions on wall street would they get our money,I think not?.

[ShortnFiery]

2. I hate myself on those few times that I agreed with the GOP. But I agree with this but for

different reasons / rationale. DAMN! :(

[eleny]

3. My opinion here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4473340#4473978

Shelby galled the heck out of me this morning.

[madmom]

4. $700 bil for the white collars vs $25 bil for blue collar ..does anyone really think

any repug will favor a blue collar win?

[w4rma]

5. Buy GM for 1.84 Billion and reorganize it into a cooperative.

That should fix the problems with bad management. Do the same for the other big automakers. Require that their factories stay and are built in or moved back to the U.S. Require that they build better gas-millage cars that require less maintenance.

[ShortnFiery]

6. "Better gas-millage cars" does not include MORE big-ass Escalade Hybrids, et. al.

It's negating the effort to scale down and use less hydrocarbons overall within the USA. :crazy: :thumbsdown:

[w4rma]

8. What? (nt)

[ShortnFiery]

13. Making a huge SUV "hybrid" does not solve our need to wean ourselves off of foreign oil.

Simple: Smaller vehicles with better-green technology.

[w4rma]

15. Where did I ever mention hybrids? Believe it or not, but hybrids can be made to increase horsepower

rather than gas mileage. I'm surprised that race cars aren't using the technology. There must be rules in place to prevent it within race organizations.

That said, hybrids - that increase gas mileage - with plug-in capability are the way to go for the future.

[ShortnFiery]

26. I regret you thought the above - it was an aside to your comment. eom

[pokercat999]

9. Pay EVERYONE from the housekeeping staff to the CEO all

EXACTLY the same pay.......it's the Christian thing to do.

[w4rma]

12. Not really. Why would someone spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn skills if they can make

the same amount right after dropping out of high school?

[pokercat999]

68. If you have to ask this question you MUST be a high school

drop out!

You can't think money is the only reason to work, if you do, I feel sorry for you.

[Pavulon]

32. I am sure that would encourage

innovative thought. No recognition for good work. No motivation.

It is a terrible concept.

[humbled_opinion]

50. Why it works in the military... hmmm

[Pavulon]

74. I did not have the option to say "fuck you I quit"

in the face of stupidity. Smart people who can get better paying jobs elsewhere will. At the end of the day it is smart motivated people you want. The dead weight will not leave and will take anything because they can not go somewhere else.

[pokercat999]

69. Is the only recognition more money? How dreary your life and

especially the time you spent at work must be if your only motivation is cash.

[Pavulon]

75. I love my job

however pay is merit based where I am. I do a good job, I am rewarded. Not always with money, but it never hurts. Why should the slackers earn the same as the innovators. Either they have to be paid the same as the workers or the workers cut down to the doofus level.

Communism,soviet style, is a failure. see chernobyl and russian submarines.

You want to work for free, go for it.

[pokercat999]

76. Obviously I have a better opinion of the American worker than

you. My guess is you are (secretly maybe) against unions also. I've been working since I was a teen, I'm 58 now, it has been my observation that the overwhelming majority of workers take pride in doing their job to the best of their ability regardless of pay. If the CEO won't do his or her job for the same pay as his fellow workers then he should resign, I'm sure there are a lot of people that would and that could do as good if not better.

[Pavulon]

79. I do business with union and non union shops NEITHER

no machinist union or non union would want a locked in wage that ignored the quality and quantity of their work. Union shops are merit based.

[pokercat999]

80. Merit = How far your nose is up your bosses arse.....nt

[LanternWaste]

86. Many people do... it called volunteerism

"You want to work for free, go for it."

Many people do... it called volunteerism. And many, many good works come directly from that, even in the face of little to no recognition...

[Speed8098]

77. Your idea is noble ........but

Unfortunately it wouldn't work.

And next time, leave Christianity out of it. It is meaningless in this context.

A Christian is no better than anyone else, including agnostics, athiests, Muslims, Jews, or anyone else who believes differntly than Christians.

What you're suggesting has been tried, it's called communism, and it ain't Christian.

For the record, I'm a baptized Catholic.

[hack89]

51. Who is going to run this company?

where are you going to get the people that know how to compete with the Japanese? Remember, it is not an issue of building cars - it is a matter of building cars that people want to buy. That kind of knowledge and experience is available where?

[w4rma]

59. The employees who are working there now and who likely know more than the top management. (nt)

[harun]

66. Exactly, I am all for it.

[Better Believe It]

7. Why Senators Really Oppose An Auto Bailout

They want a "union-free" industry which could in turn lead to the total destruction of existing unions in all private industry including trucking, railroad, warehouse, steel, chemical, oil, etc.,

Alabama's automotive industry supports more than 134,000 jobs. The state's three automakers -- Mercedes-Benz, Honda and Hyundai -- are all foreign companies that would not be in line for the proposed bailout. They don't need it. And they will reap the rewards if GM, Ford and Chrysler fall. They are all non-union operations.

Without economic aid, the entire unionized U.S. auto industry will collapse. The U.S. auto industry would then consist entirely of foreign owned auto companies employing a non-work force. And with the destruction of the United Auto Workers, we could expect Mercedes-Benz, Honda and Hyundai will make major cuts in the wages and benefits of their unorganized workers.

[Kolesar]

36. This could become a wedge issue to destroy the GOP

There are loyal customers of the domestic automakers who *do not* work for the automobile industry. Loyalty to American brands is strong in the South.

We could use this to pare a few percent of the electorate away from the GOP.

[toopers]

85. You are wrong about this being a wegde issue in the south . . .

Remember, all the car manufacturing plants are moving to the south (if not outside the US) and most of the southern states are right to work states, and not union shops (BMW in SC, Mercedes in Alabama, Saturn in Tennessee, Hyundai or someone in Georgia). The worker from the south does not want the big 3 to be bailed out. They want them to move manufacturing facilities to the south.

[dixiegrrrrl]

64. The unionized longshoremen are under attack now too.

You know that huge NAFTA hwy planned to run Mexico Pac. coast up thru to Canada?
It is designed to by pass West Coast ports.
the goods will be shipped from Aisa to Mexico, loaded by Mex and other "imported" cheap labor onto Mexican trucks, driven along the NAFTA hwy and up to Canada.
Portions of the Hwy. will be tolls roads, owned and operated by non USA companies.

Yeah..I got links. Been reading about this stuff for a year now.

Link for the guys who will make money on it:
http://www.nascocorridor.com/
and
against it:
http://www.alipac.us/article1029.html
http://politicsnpoetry.wordpress.com/2007/01/26/us-official-lies-re-nafta-corridor/

Point is, this supports the discovery of an attack on the unions.
The "Corpocracy" has pretty much taken over this country.

[customerserviceguy]

70. Red states have been recruiting overseas auto manufacturers for years

I watch the McLaughlin Group regularly (and the last two weekends, Eleanor Clift has been pretty happy!) the state of Mississippi advertises on that show, and touts their Toyota connections.

This is very much a Rust Belt vs. Sun Belt fight.

[jwirr]

10. Personally I would like to see that bailout become a buyout which

transfers the companies to the workers.

[UpInArms]

11. tell these pukes to STFU

this is the only part of this bailout that has any merit- these are the very people that have brought you the demise of our country.

It's time for them to step aside and allow us to have a future - they are the past and they are done - stick a fork in them

[acmavm]

14. Who the fuck cares what these bastards want? How ignorant can they be?

They just lost an election because of this shit. And now they're crawling out of the woodwork pulling more of the kind of crap that they've been pulling for the last 8 years, standing on the throats of the American people while giving every asset and dollar this country has over to criminals in the financial sector.

Let Wall Street die.

[Blue Gardener]

16. Assholes

Each and every one of them. I despise these people.

[Blue_Tires]

17. wow...pick up ANY newspaper from 1997 to 2005 and it would read EXACTLY:

"Top Republican Senators Oppose Higher Fuel Mileage Standards"

what changed their tune, i wonder?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

18. unfortunately, I don't disagree with any of these statements

It would probably cost less to just pay the UAW not to work that it would to save the Detroit automakers - more than a generation of terrible management, worse cars and a pride in being completely tone deaf to what the market was actually looking for in a vehicle has left the most fundementally worthless corporations ever to exist. The most dysfunctional state enterprises in the Soviet Union had nothing on these guys.

There is no point in even considering their plight until they have made it a significant way through Chapter 11 and have actually developed a tangible re-organization plan. Until then financing status quo is insanity.

I can't wait to see the 2010 Canyonero http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmsbErqGBrM

[brentspeak]

37. s/del

[goforit]

19. As a Democrat....I do agree with these repugs.

[Odin2005]

21. Then you are anti-union and have no right to call yourself a Democrat.

n/t.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

23. so should Enron have been bailed out for the unionized PGE employees?

What about the Miami Cocaine Banks?

[brentspeak]

38. From your past posts, you appear to endorse the creation of cheap labor and support killing unions:

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7856753&mesg_id=7856811

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3102462&mesg_id=3102500

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3542022&mesg_id=3543091

Here, you brag about shopping at WalMart:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3332385&mesg_id=3332661

[Hannah Bell]

27. Except that UAW has acted as a captive union for much of its history.

[Odin2005]

31. WTF does "captive union" mean?

Based on your Marx avatar I could probably guess... :eyes:

[Hannah Bell]

44. Sure are a lot of eyerollers at DU.

For such a great friend of labor, you apparently don't know much about the history of the union movement.

[Odin2005]

48. Just because one supports labor doesn't mean one is a Marxist.

There were plenty of socialists and labor unionists in US history that most definitely weren't Marxists.

[Hannah Bell]

49. Marxists built the labor movement, & when they red-baited them out, it started

its long slide downhill.

The UAW has given into the majority of the owners' demands for a long while. I won't say the bigwigs are all in the owners' pockets, but a lot of the time it sure looks that way.

What is it, 7% of the private workforce unionized? There is no "labor movement," unless you mean movement backwards.

I absolutely agree with you the GM "bankruptcy" will be used to take down what's left of union power. I simply disagree with you that giving money to the carcorp will slow that process much.

[amandabeech]

83. I strongly suggest that you do some research before you join up.

Discourse here and in most media doesn't seem to reflect any attempt to find out what has been going on in Detroit over the past few years.

I've studied the situation, particularly with Ford, I see so many opinions based on such little outdated information, that I simply don't know where to start.

You might want to look up some of my postings, and do a little Googling about the 2007 labor contracts, the progress that has been made on alternative propulsion vehicles and Ford's attempt to bring its small European and World vehicles over here. For example, as of October, Ford was putting an advanced hybrid engine in its highly-rated-by-Consumer-Reports Fusion sedan into production in December--meaning that the retooling is almost done--and introducing it to the showrooms in January, for example. I bet that you didn't know that.

[Odin2005]

20. I'll say it, Duers attacking the bailout are suckers of the union-busting bastards.

I support the UAW, goddammit!!!

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

22. The UAW doesn't even come into this anymore

These guys could fire every last union employee, move to Alabama and still be the most worthless corporation ever to exist.

[Telly Savalas]

81. Support the UAW by handing CEOs billions without oversight or control?

Interesting theory.

However I don't see how anyone can be opposed to diverting some of the financial bailout money towards the auto sector. That cash is already committed to being spent recklessly and without transparency, so it doesn't really matter who gets it.

[Snotcicles]

24. Shelby has a bit of a conflict of interest.

Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai have plants in Alabama.

[crazylikafox]

54. Interesting. I didn't hear that from any of the talking heads this AM

[Snotcicles]

55. Jeff Sessions is running his yap against the loan also. nt

[amandabeech]

82. I have been unable to find a talking head that actually knows something about the automakers today!

They don't know anything about the give-backs that the union made in their 2007 contract.

For heavens sake, after 2010, the automakers won't be responsible for retiree health benefits!

The automakers have closed plants right and left, and laid off a lot of white collar employees.

They all offer hybrids. The Chevy Volt will be a PLUG-IN HYBRID if GM survives to offer it in 2010.

Consumer Reports, yes, that's Consumer Reports, says that the quality of the U.S. automakers has gone up. Consumer Reports hates U.S. cars.

The talking heads don't know that Ford is bringing over its small Eurocars and will be retooling for them.

It just goes on and on.

They bring in experts, like this morning on Joe, who don't know much either!

Where are their researchers?

The researchers were feeding Mika Brzynski anti-Big 3 and anti-UAW stuff, but none of them were feeding Joe and Mike Barnacle who were defending, yes the Repukes were defending, the details of the other side of the story.

I'm so angry at MSNBC and CNN that I can barely type.

Don't get me started on Tweety.

[hangman86]

25. If there's no part of the bill that gives money to Hummer manufacturing

their not supporting it.

[ShortnFiery]

28. True.

How many Iraqis per gallon in your brand new SUV?
How many did you kill?
and send the working class the bill?
so you can drive your kids to soccer practice
in your brand new SUV.

We need to scale down ... having a smaller car does not mean that you have a small d**k. In fact, it's the opposite. Ask BOB? :evilgrin:

[Loki]

29. Keep buying into the Republican union busting rhetoric

It will cost the taxpayers much, much more to let these companies go bankrupt than any bailout could conceivably cost. Money with a taxpayer investment and reorganization with teeth. Granted almost every CEO and corporate board in this country has a hand in the pocket of the Republican party, but this is punishing the workers for the deeds of management. I live in Texas and there are more SUV's and trucks in this Republican hell than small or fuel efficient cars. Who bought these cars, well the American public did. We fed this beast, now we want to complain that it's the workers and unions fault they are producing these vehicles, and the company is going down. My father was a UAW member for over 30 years. I watched him stand in picket lines and as he and his fellow union members worked hard and sacrificed for good wages and benefits that would eventually help all employed people...vacation pay, sick pay, paid leave, overtime, holiday pay and 40 hour work week. This could get fucking ugly, and I for one, will be on the side of the unions. I'm standing with the union...how soon we forget.

[droidamus2]

30. Pretty obvious

It is pretty obvious from what I have read and heard from the Republican side that they see letting the auto companies fail as a way to get a big win over the unions. UAW is one of the bigger unions in the country so by letting them fail they are hoping to kill that union. My questions to Kyl and Shelby is 'do you have any auto companies building vehicles in your states?' and 'are these American owned companies or foreign owned companies?'. Over the years it has become pretty obvious to me that when you hear Republicans make these kind of statements they think there is something in it for them as far as pushing their agenda. That's why the American people are tired of them they have finally realized that the Republicans don't have what is best for the country as a whole in mind but only what helps them get more money and more power. As I have stated in other threads on this subject if we do 'bailout' the auto companies it is going to have to come with some really major strings as far as these companies retooling and coming to terms with the fact that the way things were done in the past won't work anymore.

[safeinOhio]

33. Auto companies-bad, lets dump em

banks-bad, lets dump em
Schools- bad, lets dump em
Retailers- bad, lets dump em
Government- bad, lets dump em
What ever your job is-bad, lets dump you
America-bad, lets dump it.

Screw all of you "Free Market" idiots.

That is all.

[droidamus2]

63. At least right about Alabama

Alabama's three big auto manufacturers (non-union of course) are Mercedes, Honda and Hyundai so no wonder Shelby says let the big three fail. Self serving ass!!!!

[Kolesar]

34. It is Lockheed, Boeing and Halliburton that the taxpayers should not be propping up.

How big is military spending now? Over 700 Billion dollars per year, I recall.

[lelgt60]

61. I don't understand the beef with Boeing

Their primary business is commercial aircraft. The make great planes with excellent safety records. They are pretty much completely unionized - even the engineers. They make military planes, but the auto companies make military vehicles.

Besides, I don't have an inherent problem with making military equipment - just with the illegal use of the military.

[BrklynLiberal]

35. Sounds like union busting to me...

[1gobluedem]

39. It's union busting pure and simple

Anyone can see that. American automakers did stay with trucks and SUVs for a long time, maybe too long. Um, gee, WHY? Because people were buying them. Who? The American public. So NOW they're screaming blue bloody murder because the media is telling them to. I think that's pretty hypocritical.

We can spend $700 billion to prop up money mills that serve Wall Street fatcats, we can spend $70 billion a month on an immoral and useless war but we can't support the working middle class that drives the American economy because they have the unmitigated gall to ask for decent wages and benefits. What's wrong with this picture?

[WriteDown]

40. Finally....

Someone who gets it. Thanks 1gobluedem.

[LatteLibertine]

42. I feel the money will not go where they say it will

Like the financial/wall street bailout it will end up in the pockets of the most wealthy.

I would love to be wrong.

[desktop]

43. You nailed it

Bush and his rightwing minions want the auto industry in America to be like the information technology business in America has become, filled with foreign H1B workers competing for the lowest wage possible where Unions aren't even considered. Foreign workers don't complain or they will get deported for being unemployed.

[NorthCarolina]

47. That's exactly what I think is going on as well

Didn't Obama pledge 35 Bil to the auto industry a couple of weeks back? Why is it down to 25 Bil now?

[llmart]

89. And let's not forget......

that McCain lost in Michigan way before the election and he knew itwhich is why he pulled out of here early. So, this is a real big FU to Michigan.

[machI]

45. Republicans have a reputation for being against Unions

Unions have a reputations of supporting the Democratic Party.

If the automakers are allowed to go bankrupt, they have the opportunity to renegotiate their contracts with the Unions.

In the thought process of a Republican a renegotiated contract = weaker Union = weaker Democratic Party.

This short sightedness of Republicans is glaring here, they will hurt the entire country, hurt every citizen, for some minor political gain.

If people could see this for what it is, they would never vote Republican again.

[xchrom]

46. of course they do -- cause that really would benefit working families. nt

[Bozita]

52. Sen. George Voinovich (R-OH) is supporting aid to the Big 3

I read it on Friday in one of the dailies.

[Pharlo]

53. It seems to me that if we can't LOAN the auto industry

$ 25B of a $700B giveaway to the financial sector, we should go with Sen Shelby's suggestion and just let ALL of them fail. Redesignate the allocated funds for national health care and rebuilding the nation's infrastructure.

[Oldtimeralso]

56. Why have foreign car makers moved to the US?

FOr the Germans and Japanese it is so they can build cars here non- union and avoid the cost of the unionized workers at home.
Unionized auto workers in Germany and Japan get better fringe benefits and are paid comparable to UAW employees. Letting the big 3 die is union busting and economic suicide.

[Hannah Bell]

57. they move their factories here to avoid their unions. we move ours there to avoid ours.

So how will giving them more money stop this?

[lelgt60]

58. Problem: Anti bailout=union busting. Pro bailout=reward fat cats

Well, it's only union busting if the resultant company busts the union. There is no problem coming up with a number of solutions that don't just give a bunch of money to terrible management prone to make cars people don't want and are bad for the planet.

[TXDemGal]

60. The least the Repubs could do

is tell the truth for once. The reason they don't want to bailout GM is because it, and its unionized workers, didn't contribute to the Repub re-election campaigns.

[wordpix]

65. why oppose bailing out 1 industry when we've bailed out BigInsuranceBankInvestmentCos with $ we

don't even have. Remember that $10 trillion hole BushCo put us in?

[Psephos]

67. Well, lookee all the DUers lined up today to protect the Big Three and the UAW

How strange...most days...no, make that ALL days except today...it's nine-to-one here badmouthing everything to do with Detroit operations and products. Nine-to-one on driving anything except a Detroit car, too.

If you want to know who has gut-kicked the workers, and you don't drive something they made, look in the mirror. At the VERY LEAST, do the respectable thing and spare us the pious talk and faux outrage now that Detroit is paws-up.

[SomeGuyInEagan]

71. Use the bailout money to buy the stock, re-sell the stock to the employees ...

... and let them have a say in the operation of the companies as stockholders(OWNERS). At current prices, that stock is pretty inexpensive. Or, it could be given to the companies on the demand that they issue the stock to the employees as added compensation.

Then you'd not only see some executives fired and/or pay back in line because the shareholder power shifts but also see a new direction for the companies by that new stockholder shift - perhaps the employee-owners would want to encourage more innovation and a quicker move to re-tool away from the old auto manufacturing mentality into one more in line with today, maybe even turning that technology into other, non-automotive sectors as well. Within each of these companies, there is an incredible amount of skill and talent that has been poorly managed for decades. UNLEASH THEM AS EMPLOYEE OWNERS!

And, get the federal standards for mph, emissions and safety where they ought to be - give them a floor of minimum standards required and the consumers will reward those companies which exceed those minimums.

(Don't some of these companies already build more efficient cars in foreign markets?)

[Festivito]

72. Sell it to the unions and those Republicans will change tune.

The more it looks probable the more they will turn until against it wholly.

[4_TN_TITANS]

73. I can somewhat agree with what they said

but it would be devastating to so many people to let Detroit fail. Any bailout MUST come with retooling stipulations, etc.

[annabanana]

78. Clearly airy-fairy derivatives are of far more value to America than manufacturing.

God forbid that actual products should be involved.

[amandabeech]

84. If you make physical products, you get your hands dirty!

And your collar might not be white!

IMHO, there's a lot of class bias running around these days.

[Strawman]

87. If we don't deliver here, Dems, kiss MI and the Rust Belt goodbye

We won't win votes here on social issues alone. And beyond that it's heartless.

We've been telling these people for 8 years to vote based on bread and butter economic issues. Now they have. Macomb County, where I live, ground zero in all this, is back in the Blue column. It wasn't in 2004 or 2000.

Time to deliver. If we have to pass this auto bailout with nothing but Dem votes in the Senate we'd better goddamn do it.

No matter what you think of the Big Three, a hard landing for them would devastate Michigan. Even if they are kept afloat and dissappear gradually, it is worth the $25 billion bridge loan. It would be a total catastrophe. We were ground zero for the last Great Depression. Don't let it happen again!

Now is not the time for the Henry Waxmans of the world or others with an axe to grind against Detroit to fuck over so many working people and auto retirees and their spouses in Michigan.

[llmart]

90. Hi there!

from another Macomb County DU'er:)

[amandabeech]

91. As I posted on another thread, Michigan and the rest of the rust belt

except the City of Chicago, have been shown the door.

Let's see if Canada will take us in as refugees. I grew up north of Muskegon and live in the DC area for job reasons, but all my family is there , including my uncle who retired from the line at the old Fisher Body plant in GR. I need to go back to help my mom and my uncle, but now, I think that is just over.

Maybe Canada could take us ex-Pats, too.

[Jersey Ginny]

92. Can't throw good money after bad. As long as visionless management stays no bailout.

Just have the gov't support the pensions for the workers and let the companies be subjected to the market. Management has expected the govt would bail them out all along and this allowed them to ignore the common sense of CAFE standards and have no vision for the future. Maybe Honda or Toyota will have to come in and buy up what's left. I'm sorry for the Detroit area. I've got many friends and family there. If we do this, I think the American auto company(s) will come back stronger than ever in 10 years.

[gtar100]

93. Well that probably scared Pelosi and Reid.

[opihimoimoi]

94. ASfter 8 years of listening to the GOP and their Errors.....we still listen to th...?????