Kansas Preacher Pushes Obama Muslim Message

[sabra]

Source: myfox kc

WICHITA, KAN. -- A Wichita, Kansas preacher says he will not remove a message on his church sign that says President-Elect Barack Obama is a Muslim.

The sign is staying up despite the fact that Obama is a Christian.

The sign at Spirit One Christian Center reads, "America we have a Muslim president. This is sin against the Lord."

Obama supporters reportedly got into a shouting match with parishioners outside the church on Sunday.









Read more: http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=7882247&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.11.1

[amdezurik]

1. those 10 Commandments he pays lip-service to

just "quaint" I guess...

[skeewee08]

31. Maybe Rev Wright Can give the Minister

a call you know one Radical Preacher to another. How can Obama have a Preacher Name Rev. Wright if he's a Muslim. (Sarcasm) I over heard some people talking about Obama being a Muslim here at work I said which is it he had a PASTOR that is radical or he's a Muslim? They just looked at me and rolled their eye's and the other Obama supporters just laughed and said good one.

[RobertSeattle]

2. Another example of "Don't confuse me with the FACTS - my mind is already made up"

Here's the churche's website:

http://www.spiritonecc.org/

[foxfeet]

11. This guy is Fred Phelps Lite.

Check out the "SI in the news" section and scroll down to "Wildfire, Sodomy, and God's Word" to see them blaming the October California Wildfires on gay folks. The church is conveniently silent on the wildfires raging since Prop 8 passed. Malignant, willful stupidity.

[kestrel91316]

24. I did my civic duty and emailed tham.

[Marrah_G]

25. I sent them a nice note about Christianity and lying.

Just another evangelist preaching one thing, doing the opposite all while they have their hands out taking money from the ones who can afford it least.

Disgusting.

[daggahead]

30. Yep ... I sent them a prayer request to have their preachers stop lying. n/t

[davidinalameda]

66. another fundie bigot trying to make a name for himself

[struggle4progress]

101. "... 'The main point of the marquee is to cause Christians to understand he's not a Christian,&#8221...

Pastor Mark Holick of Spirit One. 'They call and tell me he’s not a Muslim he's a Christian. That's not the point. The point is he's not a Christian' ..."

Pastor: Electing Obama was a sin
Story Created: Nov 14, 2008 at 5:12 PM CST
(Story Updated: Nov 14, 2008 at 6:16 PM CST )
http://www.ksn.com/news/local/34487444.html

[Blue_Tires]

3. doesn't surprise me in Wichita

[KSDiva]

14. They're not the norm in Wichita

South-side Wichita has a larger population of these type of idiots, but I think the majority of the city is educated and blue.

[AspenRose]

4. I guess if the Lord had a problem with it, Obama wouldn't be president

in the first place.

:crazy:

[No Elephants]

75. What does that say about God and Dummya though?

[DinahMoeHum]

5. Fuck him. You can't fix stupid.

n/t

[fascisthunter]

6. Religious Radicals are Now a Threat to Our Democracy

There really is no other way for me to look at this. The religious right wing is dangerously extreme and need to be dealt with. How they are dealt with is a question many of us really need to think about.

When religious leaders spread lies about our Presidents to forment more division, xenophobia and possibly stir those in this country who are willing to kill, it is time to deal with them, like it or not.

I have read too many articles like this one where religious nutcases take it upon themselves to issue what could be considered "fatwas" on our elected representatives. This fucker knows exactly what he is doing...

[TechBear_Seattle]

7. Only now they are a threat to our democracy?

Where have you been for the last 20 years? :eyes:

[fascisthunter]

9. They always have been, but now they are more rabid then ever

yes, especially NOW. Why the nit-picking? :eyes:

[bdamomma]

42. maybe st palin got them in a frenzy

[glinda]

46. Did anyone see the glossy magazine called "Historical" out all about Palin?

I just saw it today on the magazine stand. t is all about how wonderful Palin is as if she were elected President. EEEEE GADS! A better name would have been "Hysterical".

[shanti]

47. just like they are everywhere else n/t

[INDIA]

62. And how do we "deal with them" without violating their 1st Amendment rights? nt

[fascisthunter]

92. Who Said "WE" Had to Violate 1st Ammendment Rights?

As far as I'm concerned, hate speech that targets voters and Presidents goes way beyond 1st Ammendment Rights. But hey, I'm sure the religious right will try to hide behind the very Constitution they want to burn.

[INDIA]

95. The Supreme Court disagrees with you. We have very progressive free speech laws here...

even more so than Europe or Canada. I like it that way, because at the end of the day, what is and isn't "hate speech" comes down to a very subjective decision.

It's called a marketplace of ideas. Good ideas, like Obama's, have value, and resonate with millions of people, to the tune of 60+ million votes. Stupid ideas, like this guys, are worthless, and only help to "out" him as a moron in his community. This guy is probably going to lose potential parishoners and community support over this, because his speech is stupid. He already has protestors countering his message with their own free speech. It's a beautiful thing.

And where is the hate in his message anyway? Being muslim is a sin in his faith (opinion) and Obama is a muslim (completely stupid...opinion.) Not to mention Obama is a public figure, and people are pretty much permitted to say whatever the hell they want about him.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

102. How is it hate speech?

[chaplainM]

8. Explain this to me

Even if true, how would it be a sin for Mr. Bush (the sign says "president," not "president-elect") to be a muslim?

[Kali]

10. heh - good catch

somebody should add a sign that says exactly that:
"Even if true, how would it be a sin for Mr. Bush to be a muslim?"

[moggie]

12. Obviously that's an article of FAITH for the preacher

Evidence doesn't come into it where faith is concerned.

[Danieljay]

13. I left Wichita 6 years ago to move to Portland and have never looked back, What is the matter with

Kansas?

Its full of conservative racists and homophobes.

[buckettgirl]

61. Born and raised Kansan

I live outside of Hays Kansas, in Russell (the boyhood home of Bob Dole).
I have lived in the Hays area my whole life. My husband was raised in Russell. My whole family is from the area, so my roots here run deep.

I have no explanation for way people are the way they are here. I can tell you from personal experience that there are more people who are not conservative, who are gay, who are non-Christian, and who promote non-traditional values than what you would think (we still are lacking in minorities - it seems we have more Mexicans than anything, unless you live near a college, then there are lots of Asians and African Americans.).

Yet the conservative Christian voice is what gets heard around here. It is exactly why I don't advertise that I am Pagan - even though there are a great many of us around here.

My only explanation is that people are just nuts. They continually vote against their interests and pay lip service to ideals that they don't really believe.

As a nurse, I have cared for members of our community across the lifespan, and I can tell you that from the people I meet - there are good-hearted folks out here; most of them are. They are good kind people and hard workers who, when it comes to politics and religion, just don't get it - they fail to think outside the box. Its not even necessarily an education issue. Its more about tradition, and those perceived "traditional values".

Those people will let a preacher like that say anything because you don't question your church. Whether or not they really believe what is being said.

[olddad56]

77. Psst. Did you know that you can leave the state of Kansas without a visa.

[buckettgirl]

84. Thats easier said than done.

Like I said, pretty much my whole family is here - including Gramma and Grandpa.
I am 27 years old... I feel SO lucky to still have my grandparents, I am very close to them. When I was growing up, when I wasn't with mom and dad, I was with Gramma and Grandpa. Their health isn't good, but they still live at home, and with the holidays upon is, it is important for me to spend as much time as I can with them.
Christmas Eve at Gramma's house is special, and I know there aren't many left. I cannot leave here until they are gone. I've tried to leave, and I come back because I cannot be away from them.

However, when we do move, we are going to Eureka Springs Arkansas - and I am sure some of the people there are just as nuts; but in that particular area, we would fit in much better than here.

[olddad56]

99. I was only kidding. I couldn't leave my family either.

[Danieljay]

90. Hays Kansas. Once the highest beer consumption per capita in the world. I shouldn't generalize

there are plenty of good people in Kansas. I was from the Wichita area. In the aircraft industry I was surrounded by bigots and racists all the time. Ignorance runs deep.

I found within my out of work circle a great group of progressive people to hang out with. There is a very hidden and well connected community in Wichita.

I had to leave, for my soul to thrive.

I miss the thunderstorms and the growing season, as well as a few good friends.

[BadgerKid]

15. Waiting for that congregation to disown that preacher.... n/t

[TheWraith]

16. Sounds like a beautiful target for a lawsuit. Anybody want to own that church? nt

[INDIA]

86. What type of civil suit would you bring? Just curious...

[Botany]

17. Whack job central

[Ian David]

18. Maybe Obama just needs to go on Saturday Night Live and eat pork. n/t

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

41. Yup.

Several racks of Dreamland BBQ Ribs, flown in from Tuscaloosa, consumed during the skit, would go a long way to dispelling all this false witness.

Of course, these clowns will say "See! He's an apostate muslim!".

[Ian David]

103. No, he should eat it right off a pig on a spit. n/t

[Parche]

19. no more tax exempt status

tax them 50%

:grr: :grr: :hi:

[frylock]

20. i guess if your gawd couldn't keep a muslim out of the white house..

then he really isn't as all-powerful as you numbnuts would like to believe.

[customerserviceguy]

58. Don't you know the universal answer to that logic?

When good things happen for fundies, it is their invisible sky-father at work. When bad things happen for them, it is "man's sinfulness" that causes it.

With that sort of "deity as slot machine" mentality, you'll never get through to them with any kind of reasoning.

[bertman]

80. Or The Divil done did it.

[pattmarty]

21. I don't advocate violence......, BUT..............

[JimboBillyBubbaBob]

22. Thre you have it.....

Another example of a meme driven mental illness.

[hangman86]

23. The Lord works in mysterious ways

except when those ways turn out to be left of center. Then it's the nation turning towards Satan. :sarcasm:

[Shardik]

26. The man's a publicity whore.

And a nut to boot.

[BattyDem]

27. Lying is also a sin against the Lord.

The preacher may want to think about that. :eyes:

[sinkingfeeling]

28. Where in the Bible does it say that being Muslim is a sin against the Lord?

[HopeHoops]

34. I think it is right under "For to leave the toilet seat up is an abomination."

[FrenchieCat]

29. "Do not bear false witness against your neighbor"

Commandment #9: "Do not bear false witness against your neighbor"

Kansas Preacher is guilty as sin!

[zelta gaisma]

83. that has never stopped them before...

the whole Spanish Inquisition ...thou shalt not murder ? and the list goes on and on and on

[zbdent]

32. You would think that you would go to a preacher for TRUTH ... not lies ...

this guy is advertising that he's a flagrant liar ...

[acmavm]

33. So the preacher is a liar? And he defends his lie?

Doesn't sound like a man of God to me.

[onager]

35. Time for this quote again...

One of the most irrational of all the conventions of modern society is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected...

(This) convention protects them, and so they proceed with their blather unwhipped and almost unmolested, to the great damage of common sense and common decency.

That they should have this immunity is an outrage. There is nothing in religious ideas, as a class, to lift them above other ideas. On the contrary, they are always dubious and often quite silly.

Nor is there any visible intellectual dignity in theologians. Few of them know anything that is worth knowing, and not many of them are even honest.--H.L. Mencken

[Robb]

37. Ah, Brother Mencken

10 points for "almost unmolested." :D

[BrklynLiberal]

54. Mencken was a true artist with words...

[guitar man]

36. what would be cool

what would be cool is if a large crowd were to gather and just laugh hysterically and point at the sign. ;)

[SavageDem]

38. These are sick fucks.

To be blunt. Sorry.

The Fox story didn't have complete details, so I did a little checking. There's a more complete story here, including the fact that they've almost lost their IRS exemption before for other hate speech. The so-called "church" is the "Spirit One Christian Center", and as usual, they have clue zero about Christianity. As is typical with this type of fundie, they will tell you how to get to heaven. As if. There's a web form you can fill out to contact them. I sent the following message:

Your "church" is about the farthest thing from Christianity that Jesus could have envisioned, and your so-called "pastor" just a modern-day Pharisee. Your lies about Barack Obama being a Muslim violate the 9th Commandment, so you might want to think about that before any of you think you're heading to heaven. And even IF he were a Muslim - which it has been well-documented that he is not, if you had even the tiniest bit of intelligence to do some fact-checking - that has nothing to do with being President of the United States. This is not a theocracy we live in - it is a nation that welcomes all, much as Jesus did. Your trying to tie church and state puts you into the same category of fanatics as the very-small minority of radical Muslims. Both cults know nothing about their respective religions, and instead cling pig-headedly to illogical, hypocritical tenets completely antithetical to the spirit of their faiths. But I'll let you get back to worshipping your false gods and snakes and stuff. I'm sure you've got witches to burn and demons to cast out, so I don't want to hold you up.

Edit: thanks to FrenchieCat for pointing out the 9th Commandment hypocrisy.

[mn9driver]

39. Lots of people go to churches that lie to them.

The power that lies can have over people--both religious and political--- is well documented. Just about any "open" news message board is filled with commenters who say exactly the same thing. The right in this country has been so thoroughly propagandized that reality will never, ever break through.

[bdamomma]

40. we have our own homegrown religious extremists terrorists

sickening bunch they are.

[sarcasmo]

43. Another IDIOTIC Religious leader, the problem is they seem to never go away.

[tomreedtoon]

44. This is how you become an evangelical "star."

I've seen preachers take stupid positions to show how dedicated they are to the Bible. So dedicated that they will fly into the face of common sense, and ultimately contradict the message of the Bible as opposed to its spirit. This guy is trying to get a following going.

Don't laugh. This is how Jim and Tammy, Oral Roberts and the other evangelical TV stars got started. They were considerably more slick than this guy, but hey, there's no accounting for taste, especially in evangelism.

[Terran]

45. blasphemous

You worship the same god they do, you idiot. Ever hear of the "People of the Book"? Jeez, this is 'what's wrong with Kansas'--willful stupidity.

[Javaman]

48. okay, so obviously this "preacher" is off his meds, but...

(even though Obama isn't a muslim)when is it a crime to be a muslim 1) in this nation and 2)holding public office?

morons on parade.

[obiwan]

53. He really needs to watch it.

If he wants to espouse his own view, fine. The First Amendment guarantees the individual's right to free speech. As long as he does it on his own time and not on church property.

His church will lose its tax-exempt status if it is used to push a political agenda-message.

And since what he is espousing is provably false, as an individual he leaves himself wide open to being charged with libel.

In any case, I'm sure he doesn't want this kind of publicity as this thing will wind up all over the media.

[Sebass1271]

49. we have to find out if that church is under 501 c 3

and remind them what this means and will lose if continue to mantain political stands.

[liberal N proud]

50. That preacher should re-read his little black book of God

And then maybe he should practice a little of what it says.

The smorgasbord of Christianity strikes again. Pick and choose the verses and lessons and interpret those as you see fit.

[olddad56]

78. God didn't right that book, and neither did Jesus....

And people who interpret it literaly and then add thier own spin and the ones who are living life backwords. Live spelled bakwards is ...evil.

[LeftinOH]

51. From the church's own website: "You shall not lie".........

http://www.spiritonecc.org/subpages/contactus.html#a

[AlinPA]

52. These fundamentalists and TV evangelists have turned me against religion.

Look closely and they are the base and "soul" of the republican party.

[RedEarth]

55. Here is the sign

[raccoon]

56. That church should lose its tax exempt status. nt

[northernlights]

57. emailed an "urgent prayer request"

First, I apologize for not using the official prayer request link, which was not functioning properly when I tried to submit this request.

Please pray for the forgiveness and enlightenment of Pastor Mark Holick, who has broken the 9th commandment by bearing false witness against his neighbor. President-elect Barack Obama is not, nor has he ever been, a Muslim. He was born and raised a Christian, as his spiritual leader of 20 years, Reverend Wright, can attest.

Please also pray for the restoration of faith to Pastor Mark Holick, who very sadly believes that the will of our Lord was not followed on November 4, when Senator Barack Obama was chosen to lead the United States of America.

After all, had our Lord preferred we be lead by Senator McCain and Governor Palin, he could have tampered with the e-results, suppressed the vote, thrown out ballots, etc. much as he led the Rethuglicans to do in 2000 and 2004.

Yet He did not. Our Lord has spoken. He chose Senator Barack Obama as our leader.

Finally, please pray for Pastor Mark Holick and all anti-Americans filled with hate to GET OVER IT!!!!!

Sincerely, :rofl:

[NOLALady]

59. To paraphrase Colin Powell,

If he's a Muslim, so what?

Also, I was taught hatred of your brother/sister, was a sin against the Lord.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

60. These people never give up

"America we have a Muslim president. This is sin against the Lord."

Whatever:eyes: This would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic and wrong

[jbfam4]

67. Send your e-mail to the Spirit One Christain Center here

Email: [e-mail]

[LibertyLover]

63. That church looks to be one of the prosperity gospel preaching ones

I took a look at the Spirit One's web page and found that they believe that God grants prosperity to the whole man, body, mind and soul. I'm guessing that they probably mean "man" and male and not the generic term for male and female, given their fundamental leanings. Sad really.

[Uncle Joe]

64. So this preacher is "Bearing false witness"

I wonder if he supports the Ten Commandments in his church?

[Liberal Veteran]

68. We need to not call them "preacher" or "priest"....the keyword is "radical cleric"

Just to spin the language back on them.

[Uncle Joe]

69. I believe you make a good point.

:thumbsup:

[Overseas]

70. That's what I was thinking. Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Maybe he doesn't know that means he should not lie.

[bobd0]

65. Golly, another fundie wacko. FYI, here is Exodus 20:3 referenced on the sign:

Exodus 20:3
"You shall have no other gods before Me."

Fact check, please; just how exactly does being a Muslim place other gods before anyone?

[John_Doe_800]

76. You nailed it!!

Since when is the God of Ishmael not the same as the God of Isaac?

Genesis 21:18

[Maestro]

71. I hope he does keep the sign up.

It will remind people just how much of an idiot he is and the people that follow him.

[Gregorian]

72. HEY STUPID! THE ELECTION'S OVER.

Go back to gay bashing, or whatever you do in your church. He won. Get over it.

[bongbong]

73. Religious quote

"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work." - Adolf Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936

[scytherius]

74. Put this sign near his Church: " preacher decended from apes". n/t

nt

[roseBudd]

79. this church should be picketed with "Thou shall not bear false witness" signs

[madamesilverspurs]

81. No wonder

that Obama's mother chose to leave Kansas. . .



Somewhere in all this mess there's a bit of irony just itching to be born!

[Crunchy Frog]

82. Guess he's one of those Christians who rejects the Ten Commandments.

[CLANG]

85. What the hell is the matter with Kansas?

Thomas Frank wrote a good book about how fucked up the place is - he'll have to add this joker to his next edition.

[TankLV]

100. Kansas is so fucked up, that Kansas City is in Missouri!

Now THAT's how people vote with their feet!














I know I know, there's a "fucking kansas city, fucking kansas"...and I mean "fucking" kansas city, "fucking" kansas...that's really it's entire official name!!!

[CLANG]

105. I hear ya, Tank

They will be a hard nut to crack - but it will be done!
And they will thank us someday.

[superconnected]

87. He needs his tax exempt status taken away and his cross turned in. He's failing on both accounts.

What a hateful man. He really ought to try reading the Beatitude as well as the ten commandments.

[Taverner]

88. Dude, the election's over. You lost. GET OVER IT!!!!!

:rofl:

[superconnected]

89. I wrote to that site. I even told them I'd pray for their minister since he choose hate instead of

embracing Christ's message.

[Gullvann]

91. Isn't he getting a dog for his daughers?

This is all too silly.

And, most of all. As Powell said. So what?

[LiberalFighter]

93. What are the rest of their non-white members doing about it?

Aren't they willing to stand up against their idiotic minister and his family?

[LiberalFighter]

94. Take a look at their church at Google Map

1515 E Harry St Wichita, KS 67211

Click on Street View and then back up until you see the sign.

[dothemath]

96. don't be surprised, my fellow prisoners ................

"He was a good neighbor, quiet, polite. I never would have suspected him to be
capable of committing atrocities, blah, blah, blah. (more on this in a moment).

First, I don't claim to be a student of the bible, but if anyone can point out where it says being a Muslim is a sin, I want to know about it. Actually, I don't. But know this. If this preacher claims the power(?) to decide what is
sinful, and with such specifity, he believes he is also God. So what do we need the heavenly God for? If his imaginary friend isn't up to the task of playing
God, then by God the preacher has a duty to do so.

It will be a short leap to claim the power to 'smite' the enemies of God, not to
mention rewriting the constitution, and so on like that.

And then his parishioners, those who think (?) they are in the presence of God -
and I mean literally, they will do his bidding, even if it comes to smiting.

I wonder if this idiot preacher has rewritten the part of the bible that talks about the forgiveness of sin. Look out, preacher, God may smite you. If so, I hope he tells you why he is doing it.

Midwest values? No thanks, I'll stick to my beliefs and values. If this Kansas
preacher represents heartland values, I will have no part in it, and I will be
keeping a close eye on them in the future.

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

97. A) I'm a Muslim and B) I lived in Wichita for 13 years

Wish I still lived there so I could fart in his general direction (the preacher, not the President-Elect). Although I suppose that wouldn't be a very Muslim (or CHRISTIAN) thing to do.

[investintrains]

98. the slaughter of Kansas cows by nominally Christian Kansas is the sin against God

Isaiah: I delight not in your blood sacrifice

[MuseRider]

104. Ha Ha Ha Mark Hollick!

What an ass he is. He is always at the Wichita Pride events. This year he threw a Pride button at our KEC chair and hit him. The Police called it battery and hauled his ass off to jail. We all watched and laughed, it was great to see this asshole taken away. He lost the court case and ended up having to pay our chair $10 as a witness fee. We had trouble with him the year before as well and the police chased him off for us.

He is not an indication as to the feelings of most Kansans or even most of the citizens in Wichita. Why they are supported at all is a mystery to me. Still, the way Kansans vote has always baffled me since most of those who vote against anything that smacks of liberalism live very liberal lives.