Dow Closes Under 8,000

[TomClash]

Source: CNN

Dow Jones Industrial Average
7,996.16 -428.59 / -5.09%
Nov 19 4:00pm ET †

Read more: http://money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/

[Lost4words]

1. Gee thats too bad,...............

8643

[Roland99]

2. All over but some minor settling. Bloodbath...esp. for small caps. DJIA under 8,000.

DJIA 7,997.28 -427.47 -5.07%
Nasdaq 1,386.42 -96.85 -6.53%
S&P 500 806.61 -52.51 -6.11%
Global Dow 1,339.04 -66.99 -4.76%
Dow Util 353.82 -12.18 -3.33%
NYSE 5,012.04 -353.62 -6.59%
AMEX 1,245.71 -61.00 -4.67%
Russell 2000 412.41 -35.10 -7.84%
Gold future 736.00 +3.30 +0.45%
30-Year Bond 3.97% -0.17 -4.15%
10-Year Bond 3.39% -0.14 -4.07%

[Mira]

10. Did I hear the Freepers say this is th Obama Depression?

:rant:
:sarcasm:

[progressoid]

12. Not sure you need the sarcasm thingy.

I wouldn't put it past them.

[Mira]

13. You're right about the sarcasm icon - Limbaugh is on the job

[ramapo]

3. It just gets uglier and uglier

I'm afraid we're going to really see trickle down economics in action. Our business is slowly grinding to a halt and it may not be long before we have to start laying people off.

[TomClash]

6. The cuts are everywhere

Back in September I was comparing this to 1982 - now I think it might be worse.

[Zorra]

4. Another Bu*h/republican milestone. n/t

[TomClash]

5. The Dow has not been this low since March 2003

Right after the Pimp started his Great War.

[craz3z]

14. Haven't you heard?

It's all the Democrats' fault! :sarcasm:

This is how I had it explained to me today:

1) In the 80's it was the Dems in the House that spent all the revenues that were raised by Reaganomics.
2) The 90's were successful only because the Republicans in Congress forced Clinton to balance the budget.
3) During the current term it was Barney Frank and the Dems, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that FORCED banks and mortgage brokers to make loans to blacks and Mexicans that caused all this.

:banghead:

[RedEarth]

7. Comparing Stock Market Crashes from calculated risk blog... graphs

link below has larger graph....stomach turning..

http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2008/11/comparing-stock-market-crashes.html

[TomClash]

8. Hey good stuff - thanks! nt

[girl gone mad]

9. The New York Times published a really cool graph last month..

How This Bear Market Compares

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/10/11/business/20081011_BEAR_MARKETS.html

It looks like we have a long way to go before we hit bottom.

[tclambert]

20. Does the comparative graph suggest we are near the bottom?

I have a feeling the similarities in the drops are purely coincidence. If one or more car companies goes bankrupt, there will be a whole new, much deeper plunge to that red line.

[E-Z-B]

11. We're almost at the 50% mark from a little over a year ago

[Phred42]

15. Ther are some smart people out there predicting 6K and even lower

[Kelvin Mace]

18. not that I am a smart person

But if you apply apply the same percentage loss that happened in the Great Depression and applied it to the peak of the market, you come up with a number around 2,000.

[Kelvin Mace]

16. My completely amatuer analysis

is that the market will bottom out sub-3,000.

[tama]

22. Thereabouts

And that will be only temporary bottom. After a short and weak "boom" only to realize PO was real, next bottom will be zero - when stock market is no more. That's my best guess anyway :)

[katty]

17. just another day in paradise

[BanTheGOP]

19. DEPRESSION: ONE HUNDRED PERCENT CAUSED BY rEPUBLICANS..;

...and zero percent caused by democratic policies. Indeed, it was progressive policies that staved it off from being any worse!

THE ANSWER:

1. Nationalize all industries over 50 employees. Eliminate stockholder boards, install boards that have greater emphasis on needs of people, not the greed of the unproductive.

2. Create a maximum tax, immediately, of all individuals, taxing them 100% when they make 10 million dollars. Create a tax rate of 70%, immediately, for all those who make more than 1 million dollars. Create a tax rate of 50%, effecitve immediately, for all those who make $150,000 or more annually. Up the state tax rates by a similar percentage.

3. Immediately mandate rules for officials. NO private planes, NO perks not available at reasonable cost to their lowliest employee.

4. Immediate minimum wage hike to at least $10 hour, indexed higher for more expensive areas (NY, for instance, would be $15 or so). This will stimulate the local economies, which are key.

5. Eliminate all lobbyists. Period. ONLY citizens can petition their representatives, and then each citizen should NEVER have more access than ANY OTHER CITIZEN.

This is just for starters. This can be done with NO problem if we have a 60-seat democratic majority in the senate.

FINALLY... start the process to decertify financing, and ultimately make illegal, the existence of the republican party through RICO statues.

MAKE IT SO!

[workinclasszero]

21. Who did the most damage to America...Al Quida or Bush and the republicans?

I think Bush and the repigs win by a mile! President Obama has to be our FDR now.

[fascisthunter]

23. Proof the "Free-Market" doesn't Work

it was and always was a scam.

[bulloney]

24. The 'free market' by nature is cannibalistic.

Big companies swallow up the smaller companies until you have a monopoly or oligopoly, where you don't have competition, and therefore, no real 'free market.' These remaining companies use their power and capital to influence policy to set up a market environment that works best for them, often at the expense of smaller companies.

These libertarians who think totally unregulated markets work best have their heads up a certain body cavity.

[fascisthunter]

25. well said....

[tclambert]

29. They always play the bait and switch when they talk about the "free market"

They praise the virtues of a competitive market, quoting Adam Smith's On the Wealth of Nations, calling it a "free market" the whole time. Then they say, "See, you need to free businesses to do whatever they want and the 'invisible hand' of the marketplace will make all these good things come." But businessmen don't want a competitive market. They hate competition. They all possess a natural desire to "corner the market," to establish a monopoly or a cartel that controls the market rather than being controlled by the market.

Adam Smith's ideal was a market free of the anti-competitive influences of monopolies. Crown chartered monopolies dominated commerce in his day. He wanted a market controlled by the choices of the customers, who, by choosing between competing products, would dictate their wishes to the businessmen, who would be forced to comply or lose to the competition. Government's role should be to guarantee fair competition, and break up monopolies. And if that took regulation, then fine, as long as they were fair.

[jmowreader]

26. The Dow was 950.68 the day Reagan was inaugurated

Thanks to Little Boots' wonderful management of the economy, I think the Dow could give back everything it gained since the day Reagan was inaugurated.

[Optimistic]

27. The Dow will below 9.50 when Bush leaves office

Unemployment will be 95%
Uninsured will be 98%
99% of the people will be Homeless

Thank God for Bush!
Bush is the "greatest" leader in the "History Of the world"

[pork medley]

28. interesting username

haha

[TheWatcher]

30. New Downside target is 6400

Oh, they are busy trying to jam the Overnight Futures, so I am sure the Ministry Of Truth, or CNBC, or some other squawking group of talking heads will be on bright and early to tell us why things are fine again.

The fact though is simple.

10 Years of Gains GONE in three months.

But don't worry, The Recession will only last a year.

And PLEASE don't pay attention to the fact that Citi lost almost 24% today to close below $6.50, and that rumors are swirling as to whether JPM or BAC will be getting the short straw to absorb them.

Everything is FINE.

Maria Said So.

:eyes:

[Trojan]

31. The Best Analyst I Know NOT PC But Good Info !

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/willie/2008/1119.html

Snippet:

NATURE OF USDOLLAR RALLY

The most common question to cross my desk is why the USDollar is rallying so strongly, given a severe stock decline and really bad economic news. Surely, the answer must go in direct contradiction to any targeted investment in the USEconomy, or to property purchases. Some money, according to one source in Atlanta, seeks safe haven in US$ denomination, like among Russian investors. He made reference to wealthy individuals. The sums total the tens of billion$, maybe a little more, from that region. Their financial markets are in disarray. Even some European investors might seek the safety of the US$ as the euro currency continues to correct downward. Middle East money might seek safety also, as some disorder has entered their markets. So perhaps safe haven might be the objective for as much as a couple $100 billion or more. On the other side, a different source from Toronto tells of numerous multi-billion$ exits of money and investments from the US$-based system. Money is being repatriated as an implosion is expected, or at least a palpable risk is perceived in the United States during continued financial turmoil.

Contrast such numbers with other sources moving in the opposite direction. Up to half the hedge funds are under assault with many liquidations. Hundreds, if not a few thousand, will ultimately fail and die. Once there were 9000 hedge funds with over $1.6 trillion in managed investments. Big numbers are involved, and price changes in numerous commodities have been noted, from copper to crude oil. When their standard spread trades are closed out, enormous sums of money are demanded to buy back USTreasury Bonds that serve as anchor typically in such trades. With $1600 billion under management, spanning from New York City to London and elsewhere, and so much liquidation in big markets, my guess is that several $100 billion are involved into the beleaguered USDollar.

Also, we hear of tens of trillion$ in Credit Default Swap redemption payouts being made. To be sure, they are handled on a net basis. The swap contract payouts pertained to Lehman Brothers, Fannie Mae, and other giant firms. Truly enormous numbers are involved. Confirmation of speculative trade and CDSwap contract closeouts comes from the installed USDollar Swap Facility, designed to meet that demand. The USFed is trying to flood the world with USDollars. They have two major motives, one openly understood, one privately hidden. They are enabling the orderly payout of CDSwap contracts. They are supplying USTBonds in proper volume to cover the many spread trades that are retired. However, the USFed also is attempting ensure the globe is in synch with a reflation initiative, and continued endorsement of the USDollar as global reserve currency. In order to satisfy contracts, USTBonds are thus “ACCEPTED” as valid legal tender, if you will. That preserves the US$ as global reserve currency. When reflation is attempted, all participants lose together, as the USTBonds might lose some value when long-term interest rates rise again.

The safe haven argument has its place, but is grossly overstated in my estimation. Look at ratios in magnitude and the closed spec trades and CDSwap payouts. They seem to vastly overwhelm the safety seek to any US$ haven.