Big Three auto CEOs flew private jets to ask for taxpayer money

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Source: CNN

(CNN) -- Some lawmakers lashed out at the CEOs of the Big Three auto companies Wednesday for flying private jets to Washington to request taxpayer bailout money.

"There is a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, D.C., and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hand, saying that they're going to be trimming down and streamlining their businesses," Rep. Gary Ackerman, D-New York, told the chief executive officers of Ford, Chrysler and General Motors at a hearing of the House Financial Services Committee.

"It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high hat and tuxedo. It kind of makes you a little bit suspicious."

He added, "couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get here? It would have at least sent a message that you do get it."

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/19/autos.ceo.jets/index.html

[Phred42]

1. Yeah they need to dump the jets, the bonuses, and multi-million dollar salaries

And they should all be fired but -

That is STILL NO reason to put 3,000,000 American out of work.

[WriteDown]

2. Its not like Congress is flying in coach....

just giving some perspective. What an extremely stupid thing to do.

[Phred42]

4. correct - For example

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4494949

[xultar]

14. I saw JC Watts in coach when I flew from DC, I saw McCain in coach and John Lewis...in coach.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

8. Absolutely.

However, there's still some inexplicable fear on the part of our government to say "We will help your workers, and you'll put that private jet in the hangar until you are in a position to pay us back."

That was the major failing of the whole "Joe The Plumber / Joe Sixpack" crap in the McCain campaign. You cannot make poster children of the American worker while CEOs have private jets and six-figure aromatherapy sessions in mountain retreats.

:patriot:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Maybe they got...

A few bottles of $499/bottle wine for the trip home. I hope so. It's so hard affording life's little luxuries on the pittances they make.

[bluestateguy]

5. They will be OK no matter what happens

It's the workers that will pay the price of inaction.

[sentelle]

38. the workers will pay the price anyway

Fact: imports are lining up in the US. So much so, that import car companies are leasing space at the ports to store the unwanted cars.

Fact: GM is building a huge plant in St. Petersburg Russia.

If americans are not buying domestics, and not buying imports, then its just that americans are not buying.

If the big 3 are building plants outside of North America, does it mean that factory workers will be relocated?

We need to realize that the big three are using the situation as ransom against the government, and when they get the money, the jobs will still be gone: the reason will be this: the economy doesn't support the volume of cars, so we have to let people go.

Meanwhile, the bailout money goes to the CEO's and trickles down... Into their wallets.

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. That certainly diminishes their claim of being broke.

What arrogant assholes they are.

And they wonder why the public is reluctant to help them out.

[beltanefauve]

7. I catered a private party once

for GMAC execs, and let me tell you, they were the most arrogant, entitled and racists assholes you could imagine. The entourage of their black behemoth SUV's arriving at the site was disgusting. The dinner conversation I overheard would have made you cringe. And the only ones acting even more entitled at that table were their wives!

[Fed_Up_Grammy]

10. They're usually shitty tippers too.

[llmart]

26. I used to work for a Director.....

at the headquarters of a large automotive supplier. I was in executive compensation and I lasted one year before I couldn't reconcile my principles with my job so I quit. I could tell you some hideous stories of how much money they made for doing nothing and how denigrating they were when speaking about the peons who worked there.

[cliss]

32. Don't worry, the day is coming

when these creeps will get what's coming to them. Their companies WILL end up in bankruptcy. They will park the elegant jets, the perks and lovely catered dinners will come to an end, I guarantee it.

I've read that Washington is NOT going to rescue the 3 car makers. It's only a matter of time before they fold. Now the worst part, the rest of the economy is going to fold in order to knock down these creeps from their pedestals.

But - it's not all bad.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

9. Bailout of Detroit will only EXPEDITE their bankruptcies

I have worked on dozens of corporate bankruptcies and the truth of the matter is that none of the Detroit automakers have adaquate funds to see through a successful Chapter 11 re-organization with cash-on-hand and given the present liquidity crunch the bankrupt automakers would not be able to obtain debtor-in-possession financing.

The funds from the "bailout" will be used to finance those Chapter 11 re-organizations in which the UAW labor contracts and other liabilities will be discharged by the courts. In effect Washington won't be providing a bailout to prevent bankruptcies - Washington will be providing the debtor-in-possession financing so the automakers can file for Chapter 11.

Anyone who believes this "bailout" will be any less criminal than the last one is naive.

[rucky]

12. This deserves its own OP.

[4_TN_TITANS]

52. Excellent perspective...

and I'm not surprised. Why use your own money to pay for bankruptcy when you can get the taxpayers to fund most of it.

[rucky]

11. Collateral?

not likely

[smiley]

13. The article says they fly private jets "For safety reasons".....

how does this make any sense? So basically their saying that the rest of the American population is at risk if the don't fly on private jets.

[WriteDown]

15. I supposet that makes sense....

Just look at how many posters support private schools because they are safer for the aristocracy....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3607276&mesg_id=3607276

[VP505]

18. Its true that they do have some security and safety concerns but

the main reason for owning their own aircraft is convenience and flexibility that the scheduled air carriers just can not provide. There are other more important things to criticize them over than their use of private aircraft,IMO.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

19. we don't "own" a jet but we charter a Challenger periodically

when we have to send about a dozen or more people to the middle of nowhere - though we are not flying to to Washington to extort money from the federal government, those assholes can take Amtrak.

[KamaAina]

23. Actually, from Detroit, they'd either have to take a bus to Toledo

and catch the train to DC there, or else backtrack through Chicago.

That's how far Amtrak is in the crapper, thanks largely to vested interests -- like the automakers themselves -- making sure it is barely kept on life support. :eyes:

[amandabeech]

29. They would have had to have planned to travel on Monday,

so that they could be assured that they would get to DC by Tuesday.

Amtrak travel between the Midwest and the East can be really bad, particularly the route that goes DC-Pittsburgh'ish-Indianapolis-Chicago. Of course, you go back to Chicago from Detroit to catch a train.

I live in the DC area and visit my family in Michigan, where I would like to work, whenever I can. I looked into Amtrak, but then looked right back at Northworst/Delta, my only current choice.

[MilesColtrane]

34. People who have that kind of money have their own private security on par with the Secret Service.

I had a friend who played a gig for very high up Exxon executives once.

They demanded Social Security numbers on all band members and crew (which is illegal by the way) then ran background security checks on them.

They were not told the specific location or time of the engagement, only to be somewhere with all the gear ready to go.

They were then met by a security detail on a chartered bus. Security confiscated their cell phones (as per the contract with the agent that they hadn't seen) and drove them to a hotel to set up for the gig.

Once there they were assigned a squad of "handlers" who made sure they didn't stray from the stage or the prearranged green room on breaks. This was to keep the band and crew away from the guests.

Can't have the unwashed mixing with people who matter you see.

Sure these people have more money and power than God, but they live in constant fear also.

[beltanefauve]

49. This frequently happens to me as well

when I work these so-called "VIP" parties. I get little or no details of who I will be serving, and I have had to sign a confidentiality oath as well.

You may be right about the fear of these people, though. There's way too much bravado and grandstanding at these dinners.

[undeterred]

50. Maybe they're afraid of all the people they've pissed off.

:shrug:

[quidam56]

16. Ahhhhhhhh, THE AMERICAN WAY

http://www.wisecountyissues.com

[Esra Star]

17. JET- POOLING!!!! what's next......

Two straws in the champagne? Shared mistresses?
What is the world coming to?

[Bozita]

20. Who has a bigger fleet of corporate aircraft? AIG or the Big 3?

I'd bet it's AIG.

[blue_onyx]

21. And I bet AIG didn't get asked this question either

Funny how everyone rolled over for the financial institutions but they are completely going after the auto companies.

[tclambert]

28. And it was the financial institutions that put the carmakers in this bind.

Car sales dropped 30 - 45% in October. It's because people buy cars on credit. And they commit to a payment plan when they have confidence they'll have an income for a few years.

The carmakers don't want a bailout giveaway like the financial companies did. They want a loan. And of course the people they would normally go to for a big loan are struggling.

My fear is that posturing politicians will say, "No more bailouts! We took too much heat for that other one!" Then car companies go under, millions of workers lose their jobs, and the economic consequences get so bad that even Republicans, nay, even Libertarians, say, "Damn, I guess we should have helped those car companies."

[amandabeech]

30. Neither did Goldman, Bank of America, Citibank.

Shall I do some research and go on?

[saigon68]

37. This is all a sham ----- to get rid of retired union LEGACY COSTS

just wait and see

[sarcasmo]

43. Bingo, and don't think they all didn't take private jets on purpose. Destroy the Union to Destroy

Legacy costs.

[HPD]

22. It looks like We The People will not help 3 million people

COngress will not approve it. But now, in regards to the already approved $25 billion for retooling, "Mr. Levin said that lawmakers were considering several approaches, including rewriting the provision that mandates that any subsidized loans go toward retooling plants to produce advanced fuel-efficient cars."

So it looks like a lost opportunity for the Auto industry to modernize.

When 3 million+ people are put out of work, the depression comes rolling in, the Union is busted, the Republicans take back the white house and congress (because democrats will be blamed for the depressin since they will be the ones in power), just remember those liberals here and everywhere who opposed the loan to the Big Three.

FUCK YOU ALL. This is absolutely unacceptable for liberals to turn their back on the unions and 3 million workers. The media really pulled you all along on a string. Republicans are having a field day. Obama will now be a one term president!!!! He will be blamed for when the auto industry collapses within the next 12 months. He will be blamed for the economic consequence of that collapse. The Republicans already tricked all of you of accepting the term "bail-out" when it was never a bail out but a LOAN. Get it?

Idiots.

[knitter4democracy]

25. Thank you. That's exactly right.

As a Michigander, I'm livid about it!

[dothemath]

27. No, fuck you.

FUCK YOU ALL. This is absolutely unacceptable for liberals to turn their back on the unions and 3 million workers. The media really pulled you all along on a string. Republicans are having a field day. Obama will now be a one term president!!!! He will be blamed for when the auto industry collapses within the next 12 months. He will be blamed for the economic consequence of that collapse. The Republicans already tricked all of you of accepting the term "bail-out" when it was never a bail out but a LOAN. Get it?

Idiots.
*************************************************************************
Fuck you all? No, fuck you, you ignorant asshole. You must be one of those red state jerkoffs who not only can't read, but only hear what you want to hear.
The republicans, including the only person who is probably stupider than you are- dubya - would not allow passage of a bailout for the automakers.

If the treasury dep't. doesn't write a check tonight and hand it over to the automakers, with more to follow, 3 million people are not going to wake up tomorrow out of work. Do you know how anything works besides your pickup truck, your shotgun and tabs on beer cans? Dumb fuck. Shut the fuck up and go away.

[sarcasmo]

44. Such language, you are the one who is sadly mistaken. The Job loss won't happen over night

However, 1 in 10 jobs is directly related to the big three and that is not a talking point from a "red State jerk off" Carl Levin has been pushing hard for a bailout because he knows what the impact will have on our State. Chrysler had a bailout years ago and paid it all back WITH interest. Aig will they pay any back? I don't think so.
Regarding your mouth, what I have learned over the four years here at D/U is that those that cuss like you, the post you made looks something like that of one who normally doesn't know what they are talking about, or they are posting over at free republic. Enjoy your time here on D/U, but please clean up your language.

[saigon68]

53. Yikes I feel the love here

But the poster does have some traction

[amandabeech]

31. I think that the rest of the country has shown Michigan the door.

Maybe Michigan should ask for refugee status in Canada.

I'm from Michigan and want to go back.

Joining up with Canada would be just fine with me at this point.

I love the U.S., but sometimes its just not worth sticking around when you aren't wanted.

[sarcasmo]

45. Living here in Michigan I am so furious over the handling of this situation.

[1gobluedem]

47. And we will take our world's largest supply of fresh water with us

Can't wait for the day when people who turned their back on the auto industry come begging for our water.

[MilesColtrane]

35. If there are no loans, it will be quicker than that.

If you believe GM's numbers, they only have enough cash to last through mid-January.

[AwakeAtLast]

24. That was Whoopi's topic for Wed. "WTF?" on The View

That does make me say, " :wtf: "

[KakistocracyHater]

33. Again-get permanently rid of CEOs & CFOs

they are not functioning except as hoovers on the corps. payrolls, let the board take over the functions; & someone might look into POACHING AUTO WORKERS & FOLD THEM INTO MASS TRANSIT WORKERS.

..."In a 1922 memo that will live in infamy, GM President Alfred P. Sloan established a unit aimed at dumping electrified mass transit in favor of gas-burning cars, trucks and buses. Just one American family in 10 then owned an automobile. Instead, we loved our 44,000 miles of passenger rail routes managed by 1,200 companies employing 300,000 Americans who ran 15 billion annual trips generating an income of $1 billion. According to Snell, "virtually every city and town in America of more than 2,500 people had its own electric rail system."...

300,000 workers BACK THEN, DO YOU HEAR ME NOW?!

...."But GM lost $65 million in 1921. So Sloan enlisted Standard Oil (now Exxon), Philips Petroleum, glass and rubber companies and an army of financiers and politicians to kill mass transit. The campaigns varied, as did the economic and technical health of many of the systems themselves. Some now argue that buses would have transcended many of the rail lines anyway. More likely, they would have hybridized and complemented each other. But with a varied arsenal of political and financial subterfuges, GM helped gut the core of America's train and trolley systems. It was the murder of our rail systems that made our "love affair" with the car a tragedy of necessity".....

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/11/16-6

[WriteDown]

41. I completely understand your sentiment....

But that is ridiculous.

[truthisfreedom]

36. Want taxpayer money? Be prepared to give up 85% of executive pay immediately.

Be prepared to give up the majority of company jets. Be prepared to live like the people you employ.

You want corporate welfare? You'll live like welfare recipients.

[Lorien]

39. I agree with Aston Kutcher on this ( never thought I'd type that): let the oil

industry giants bail out US auto manufacturers! After all, it was the unholy alliance between the two that has kept the industry from evolving and has led us to the point we are now; with loads of jobs depending on greedy, unimaginative oil whores who-along with the beef industry-will eventually kill the whole damn planet with their insatiable greed. Exxon-Mobile made over 46 billion in PROFITS last quarter-send at least half of that to those whores of theirs who promoted SUVs for so long!

[stubtoe]

51. That would be poetic justice, actually

But it won't happen, because there is no honor among theives.

[hamsterjill]

40. The delicious irony

The irony (in my mind) was the fact that these three assholes didn't even realize that they should be embarrassed when Rep. Ackerman scolded them.

What arrogance!!!

Plus - they build CARS....so why can't they DRIVE to their meetings. And please, don't think for one minute that any of us buy their explanation of the jets being for 'security' purposes. Puuuuhhhlease!!!

I don't want all of the normal employees to lose their jobs, but I do want to see all three of these jerks fired on the spot WITHOUT any kind of severance package. THAT in and of itself should be a condition before there is any discussion of a bailout.

And yes, I know that all three of these idiots will land on their feet and be just fine because they have ALREADY raped the companies enough to make sure that they will have their luxury lifestyle for the rest of their lives. BUT...firing them would set an example, at least.

[Adam42069gc]

42. HYPOCRITES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:banghead::If they file for bankruptcy there is one little very very dark secret that the Repukes keep failing to mention: all the people that worked there for their WHOLE LIFE will LOSE their pension & company health care!:grr:The Repukes don't care because all they Repukes care about is BIG:grr:BUSINESS! If you don't believe me then look at the past:puke:8 years of Bush & look at all the new "laws" he is passing before he leaves office, who do they:spank:benefit? Hell look at the past 4 Repuke presidents, who did they cater to?:wtf:

[JerseygirlCT]

46. They are SUCH idiots. Who runs their PR departments, anyway?

Fire them, to begin with.

[Strawman]

48. So lets show them and fuck over retirees by not bailing them out

The outrage over this story is emotional cover for throwing American workers and retirees to the wolves.