Finger-Pointing Begins As Senate Nixes Auto Vote

[Purveyor]

Source: Associated Press

(11-19) 16:14 PST WASHINGTON (AP) --

A Democratic Congress, unwilling or unable to approve a $25 billion bailout for Detroit's Big Three, appears ready to punt the automakers' fate to a lame-duck Republican president. Caught in the middle of a who-blinks-first standoff are legions of manufacturing firms and auto dealers — and millions of Americans' jobs — after Senate Democrats canceled a showdown vote that had been expected Thursday. President George W. Bush has "no appetite" to act on his own.

U.S. auto companies employ nearly a quarter-million workers, and more than 730,000 other people have jobs producing the materials and parts that go into cars. About 1 million on top of that work in dealerships nationwide. If just one of the auto giants were to go belly up, some estimates put U.S. job losses next year as high as 2.5 million.

"If GM is telling us the truth, they go into bankruptcy and you see a cascade like you have never seen," said Sen. George V. Voinovich, R-Ohio, who was working on one rescue plan Wednesday. "If people want to go home and not do anything, I think that they're going to have that on their hands."

--SNIP--
For now, however, with the federal emergency loan plan stalled in the Senate, lawmakers in both parties are engaged in a high-stakes game of chicken, positioning themselves to blame each other for the failure.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., scrapped plans Wednesday for a vote on a bill to carve $25 billion in new auto industry loans out of the $700 billion Wall Street rescue fund.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/11/19/national/w114217S40.DTL

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Depression here we come

and I blame EVERYBODY in D,C

Regardless of party

[blue_onyx]

5. I blame everyone too

I'm almost more angry at the Democrats right now. I know why the Republicans are dragging their feet...they want nothing more than to see the unions destroyed. I don't why the Democrats aren't stepping up to the plate. They seemed so willing to throw 700 billion to the billionaire hedge fund managers on Wall Street so why not help the auto companies too.

[Mithreal]

14. I blame all of us. Take some responsibility please. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. I did not know I managed one of the big three...

or any of the large companies, or voted for Reagan (which I could not... as in could not vote you see... and so it goes)

We elect these folks, they SHOULD develop a backbone

[Mithreal]

25. Blaming everyone in DC for a potential depression

is not being responsible. Since you bring up Reagan, many of the people in DC NOW were not in DC when Reagan was President for one thing. The blame can be placed upon nearly 30 years of conservative policies not just the people who may or may not be in DC. The American people were responsible for their elected officials during this time, right? If you are not a citizen, then do not feel the obligation to take responsibility. That goes for any non-citizen reading this.

However, I did think you were talking about depression not the failures of the top 3 US automakers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Ah, now you are into spreading the blame

so I guess the Murican people were also responsible for the Great Depression, and not their elected leaders who enacted certain policies?

Oh wait, the Murican people were also responsible for the 1872 depression.... as well

Look muricans may be idiots when it comes to voting, but those responsible are THOSE ENACTING POLICY... those are in BOTH PARTIES... and they have mostly enacted a FAILED economic policy that we decided to try for the THIRD TIME, with predictable results

Makes me wonder if humans are capable of learning from history, but that's besides the point

[Mithreal]

28. What are you talking about "Murican"s?

Are you really intending to sound offensive? If so, I don't get it, please feel free to explain.

For me, I worked 40 to 60 hours a week trying to get Obama and my local Democrats elected. All this was voluntary. I suffered plenty of stupid arguments from folks that were Republican, Libertarian or just plain ignorant, but I put myself out there. PE Obama inspired me to take responsibility for America and our future. Are you really telling me now that I am NOT responsible for the condition of my country, my government, or its future?

[Fran Kubelik]

2. fuck

[tularetom]

3. We're fucking doomed

If the Democratic Senate can't even summon up a bit of spine under the current situation, there is no hope at all that an agenda favoring the people over the special interests will ever br adopted.

Harry Reid is worthless as tits on a boar hog. He needs to go right fucking now.

Even Obama's bidness oriented economists agree this assistance is needed to stave off unemployment on a scale not seen since the 1930's.

[depakid]

9. "Harry Reid is worthless as tits on a boar hog."

That's certainly the evidence from the record.

One of the best players on the Republican team.

[msongs]

4. bush admin. says there are other funds available for this...if so why not use them? nt

[Dragonfli]

6. That money is needed for bankers so that they can acquire other banks

While refusing to loan the money.
If you want money from that fund you can't "produce" anything.
Cars, jobs, none of that will profit the speculators.
Its all about one class of people, Haven't you been paying attention?
:sarcasm:

spelling edit

[workinclasszero]

7. The Great Depression 2 is right around the corner

Working class Americans will be thrown out in the streets by the millions before it's all over. Chinese auto companies will lick the bones of GM clean. Now workers will know the real price of letting republicans control the country. And Rush Limbaugh will be wiping his fat ass with hundred dollar bills and laughing at the starving masses.

[KamaAina]

8. Biased much, AP?

A Democratic Congress, unwilling or unable to approve a $25 billion bailout for Detroit's Big Three, appears ready to punt the automakers' fate to a lame-duck Republican president.

I thought it was mainly the repukes, who in the lame-duck Senate need only one or two DINOs to join them, who were dead set against this. But you'd never know it by reading that opening sentence. :eyes:

[Mithreal]

11. AP is an emabarassment

I can't stand the top of the hour news updates from them on my local progressive radio station, am1090. They are so shamefully biased they often make me sick.

[jimnasium]

10. This will go through once Obama becomes our President

And not a moment too soon!

[Mithreal]

12. Anyone crying doom needs to listen to what you say here. nt

[KamaAina]

15. Remember, the new Congress, with a bigger Dem majority, convenes on Jan. 6

giving them a two-week head start before Inauguration Day.

[bluecollarcharlie]

31. Six weeks

...and i don't know if my employer will even be around then.

[HPD]

13. Here come the suicides

It's gonna happen.

We The People fucked up again. Republicans won!!! their last victory before handing over to Obama. They successfully controlled the language once again, by using the term bailout instead of loan. I hate the democrats for being weak. ANd i hate liberals everywhere who never understood what this will mean and were against the loan.


OBAMA will now be a one term president. He and his party will be blamed for the economic catastrophe we will be in next year. It will last for many years.

Already we see the right wings in the media setting it up. After all, someone already pointed out the bias in the AP article: "A Democratic Congress, unwilling or unable..."

Some of you poor souls, who were against this loan. You don't understand. You just never did. Welcome to the big leagues. Buckle up.

[KamaAina]

16. Thank you for your concern

:boring:

[Mithreal]

17. You might need to add the sarcasm tag. nt

[olddad56]

18. What if Paulson had come from GM rather than Goldman Sachs?

[Mithreal]

19. Don't need to be from a bank to put your hand out though. nt

[madmom]

20. This is my take on it...The auto industry is asking for a LOAN

not a bailout, there is a difference, a
$25 billion loan to be paid back ABSOLUTELY NOT....$700 billion bail out never to be seen again OH SURE WHY NOT!

The gop has been trying to bust the unions for decades, this is their last dying effort.If the "credit crisis" would not have happened the auto industry could've borrowed from some financial institution,and not be in this mess, but now they can't because nobody can. Now we're finding out there was no "real" credit crisis, sounds kind of suspicious don't it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. You are right and if Bush wanted to make a difference here, I know

pie in the sky thinking, the authority to give that loan is in the TARP... but we were told by Paulson that he was against it... gee guess why? Destroy the union. no matter what the cost

[ozone_man]

26. Loan vs. equity.

The way I understand it is that the money used so far by Paulson has gone to buying preferred shares in the banks for prices that haven't been disclosed. So, we have something tangible for that money, but what the price was has not been disclosed.

The original plan involved buying mortgage securities by reverse auction, I sort of like that idea, since it involved assigning market value to them, not some ideal future value that may never be achieved in the distant future. Maybe that is why Paulson nixed the idea.

Regarding a loan to the auto industry, I have mixed feelings about that. Whether it is throwing good money after bad. They really should have changed before this point. I'm not sure they can and survive given the debt crisis that we face. It's likely to be one loan after another for years to keep them afloat. I feel the same way about the banks too, Goldman Sachs and all of the rest. What a mess!

[madville]

22. Not going to do much even if it does pass

GM lost 20 billion in the first 9 months of this year. If GM gets 8.3 billion of the 25 it will buy them about 4 months with the same leadership that sunk them. Unless car sales double or something how is this going to work?

Give the 25 billion to car buyers in the form of no interest loans/rebates to purchase GM, Ford, or Chrysler cars. That would generate some revenue for the companies and reduce their inventory.

[geomon666]

30. "how is this going to work?"

It was never going to work. It was just going to be one loan after another, and another, and another with the hope that if the economy got better, people would buy more GM/Ford/Chrysler cars and trucks. Meanwhile, while the Auto Companies are waiting for the economy to get better, they'd be cutting jobs and sending more work overseas, thus making it harder for the economy to get better and reducing their chances of surviving. They were already on life support. Congress just pulled the plug.

[Romulox]

24. Reid et al were playing Good Cop, Bad Cop with my community. They got what they wanted in the end.

[Odin2005]

29. The American Economy, RIP... n/t.