Dems demand business plan from Big Three (Bailout plan now OFF again)

[Pale Blue Dot]

Source: MSNBC

WASHINGTON - Democratic leaders in Congress sidetracked legislation to bail out the auto industry Thursday and demanded the Big Three develop a plan assuring the money would make them economically viable.

“Until they show us the plan, we cannot show them the money,” Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said at a hastily called news conference in the Capitol.

She and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Congress would return to work in early December to vote on legislation if the General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC produce an acceptable plan.

The decision averted a likely defeat of legislation providing $25 billion loans for the industry. Reid and Pelosi both said there was no plan in circulation that could pass both houses of Congress and win President George W. Bush’s approval.

While the decision headed off the defeat of one bill, it did not necessarily translate into passage of a different one.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27824057/

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It's very bizarre watching the news on this bailout change seemingly by the hour.

[DJ13]

1. Someone is pulling strings behind the scenes

I cant believe Democrats would betray those millions of autoworkers by playing games.

[WriteDown]

2. And where were these requests for plans when it came...

to Wall St. Not saying the request is a bad thing. But I've got to wonder.

[Pale Blue Dot]

3. Yep. Everyone kept saying, "We don't know if this will help,

but we have to do something." :grr:

[DJ13]

4. excactly

No strings for $700 billion to banks.

But when a blue collar industry needs loans to get through these bad times it comes with conditions that no one would agree to.

[aviationpm]

20. Even small businesses need a business plan...

To go to DC without one is a reflection of the horrible management. Anybody giving out a loan should expect one.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

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[Jacobin]

30. yes, they did

I think it was: "give us the money and we'll call you for more if we run out"

:runsaway:

[Sherman A1]

6. Agreed

I think the very least our Jet Set CEO's could do is come up with something resembling A PLAN.

I am reminded of the line from the movie "Badges?...... We don't need no stinkin' badges"....

Well, in fact Skippy, you do indeed need them.


:banghead:

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sherman A1]

36. Just guessin' here, but

I'm thinking someone had a differing opinion?

[The Stranger]

8. Paulson and the Wall Street Billionaires didn't have to show Jack Fucking Shit.

Thanks, Pelosi Traitor!

Thanks, Doormat Reid!

Fucking unbelievable. With Democrats like these, who needs Republicans?

[blue_onyx]

32. I know!!!

The Democrats really need to get rid of Pelosi and Reid. Maybe someone will challenge them in the 2010 primary. They need new leadership.

[whosinpower]

35. Let me get this cyrstal clear straight

America, and the world is faced with a huge abyss of a credit crisis - based MOSTLY because Wall Street financiers finangled the books, cooked up crooked bonds with shady bond ratings and sold those abroad based on home equity values in the US.

They backed these loans with even stinkier credit default swaps - created a market out of vapour all with the understanding that homes would always appreciate in value.

Fast forward to the credit crisis as a direct result of their mismanagement, lacksidaisical regulations,lack thereof and greed.....and they get 300 billion up front, no questions asked, no oversight, because should the financial institutions fail - we are in for a world of hurt.

GM and the big three automakers are already in a world of hurt as a direct result of the credit crisis - that was perpetrated from Wall Street.....and Congress is demanding a plan before giving them any money???????

In other words, Wall Street gets "protection" money in the event of a catastrophic downturn to save themselves with taxpayer money - and the rest of you - you taxpayers and workers and main street folk are screwed "without a plan" before they show you the money - by the way....it is YOUR money they are spending.

Words fail me. The outrage is taking over. I thought I was outraged by the sell up to the Iraq War....but this is a thousand times worse.

[Taverner]

5. I wanna see the business plan too

If we're going to hand the CEO cash, I want to see where it is at least supposed to go

[sarcasmo]

13. No one wanted to see Wall St. business plan.

[Taverner]

14. Yes, and that was a BIG MISTAKE

I wanted to see it, but everyone was so full of FEAR they didn't let reason in their heads, bless their hearts.

All that Wall Street Free money from the government, its gone. Bye bye!

[sarcasmo]

16. Remember Chrysler under Iacocca paid the loan back plus 5%

[Telly Savalas]

41. Bob Nardelli isn't Lee Iacocca.

[pampango]

22. Well said. I don't like the idea that Wall Street got its free money, now we want ours.

The Wall Street bailout was a big mistake, as you said. I don't see the need to follow up that mistake with another mistake and perhaps another later and who knows.

If the Big 3 can't come up with a damn good plan on how the $25 billion will make the industry viable, and then be willing to negotiate hard with Congress on concrete details, then they must not need the money very much after all. Perhaps they just saw this as a good time to line up for "free money", rather than going after a loan the could use to restructure their industry.

[bluecollarcharlie]

28. Have you read a paper in the last 4 weeks? Let me help you out sunshine.

NO ONE CAN GET A LOAN BECAUSE THE CREDIT MARKET IS TIGHT!!
If Paulson got off his sorry ass and made the banking industry do what was intended maybe we could get the market moving again. This a crisis of liquidity no one can get a loan and the industry is going to die. How simple are you people?!

[atreides1]

9. I think it's more CYA then betrayal

Congress is already being slammed for the first bailout, because the "plan" was changed by Paulson! I think that there needs to be a solid business plan before anymore tax dollars get tossed down the hole!

[sarcasmo]

10. I agree, someone is trying to finish the UAW.

[merwin]

42. What? You don't want them to be able to show that they can use the money to become solvent?

When a business takes out a loan, they usually need to have a business plan of how that money will make money for the company. It's not unreasonable for Congress to demand that. Otherwise they'll just be pissing away the money into the black hole of upper management.

[JDPriestly]

7. Now this makes sense.

A plan or no money. Any lender would demand at least that much.

Good for Congress.

[The Stranger]

11. They gave Wall Street Thirty-Fucking-Two times this much money and didn't ask for shit.

Wake up.

[JDPriestly]

15. I screamed then too. We have Obama to thank for that one.

Don't misunderstand me. It is clear to me that Paulson and Bush blackmailed Obama. But that does not make a careless handling of our money right at this time. Congress is asking a minimum. A business plan is absolutely necessary at this point.

[Blue_Tires]

24. i've only been asking that question 1,000 times this past week

hell, the wall street money was handed over with nary a critical question asked at all...

[MannyGoldstein]

25. So Maybe They've Learned

It certainly does make sense to ask for a business plan. They should already have this.

[The Stranger]

31. They haven't learned anything -- they have been bullied again by the GOP to fuck their own.

They knew god damn good and well they could have asked the Wall Street Billionaires and that criminal Paulson what they were going to do, but they didn't do it.

They waited until the heavily unionized automakers came, and, once again, Traitor Pelosi and Worthlesss Piece of Shit Reid capitulated, and made demands of their own they never made of the Wall Street Billionaires.

[meegbear]

12. Exactly!

[Critters2]

37. A lender would demand as much? Apparently not when giving money

to another FUCKING LENDER!!! Midwestern manufacturing jobs are at least as important as stockbrokers on Wall St. And no one asked Wall St for so much as a phone number. This about fatcats looking out for one another.

[JDPriestly]

43. They made a huge mistake when they gave the money to Wall

Street without asking for plans. Obama was under enormous pressure. The whole thing was a Republican trap for Obama. I warned and warned against that first bail-out of the financials. It was a horrible mistake to do it that way. Highway robbery.

If Congress requires the automakers to present a plan for how they plan to use the money they are borrowing, everyone will be the better for it, especially the auto workers.

[kansasblue]

17. 'we sold our planes and travel coach'

[mshasta]

18. senator carl levin

...unless we have a plan we can't vote on a plan not till dec. then we can vote for the plan...
:crazy:

[bluecollarcharlie]

29. By your emoticon it seems you are really happy.......

......to stab a lot of union workers in the back. You're a cold-hearted....

[damntexdem]

19. If the GOP wants to reprogram the retooling money to a bailout, let them!

Then renew the retooling money after the Dems take control in January.

[aldo]

21. Get these DINOs out of the party

We need unity principals for all Democrats. Reid & Pelosi aren't Democrats. If we can't pass the bill, so be it, but force the Republicanists to go on record. If the auto industry goes, America goes. We need to make sure that the voters know who they're being ratfucked by -- the Ratfucklicans, they hate the American, middle-class-for-all way of life. Shameful, just shameful.

[acmavm]

23. I AM 100% in favor of bailing out Detroit. But it is not outrageous, especially

after yesterday's exhibition of extremely poor judgement (all three CEOs showing up in their own PRIVATE JET). I for one want these guys gone.

YES YES YES!!! Bail 'em out. But not without making sure that the money helps the companies to survive, not line some exec's pockets.

Retool and redesign.

[JerseygirlCT]

38. I saw Tester being interviewed earlier today

(you know, the flat-top guy?)

He was asked about the difference between the seemingly quick and easy bailout of AIG and the hoops that the Big 3 were being put through. His answer was good, I thought: he wasn't in favor of bailing out AIG, either, but the fact is, you learn when you make mistakes. And just because things weren't done right then, doesn't mean we shouldn't do it right now.

Asking for a plan isn't a bad thing. It's the least thing that any lender should be asking.

[depakid]

40. That was brilliant PR, eh?

It really is impressive how out of touch these folks are.

[ContraBass Black]

33. “Until they show us the plan, we cannot show them the money,”

We may be witnessing a sudden breakout of common sense.

[whosinpower]

34. Where was that "common sense"?

When Paulson demanded the outrageous sum of 700 billion for financial institutions? Where was "the plan" then??????

[JerseygirlCT]

39. See my comments above about Tester this morning

and I do have to add that I cannot remember whether the question was about the AIG bailout or the more general 700 billion bailout - but the point is really the same.

[ContraBass Black]

44. Apparently, the congressional Democrats were asleep for that whole week.

It seems to happen rather frequently.