Report: Government prepared to lend $7.4 trillion

[DogPoundPup]

Source: Houston Chronicle

The U.S. government is prepared to lend more than $7.4 trillion on behalf of American taxpayers, or half the value of everything produced in the nation last year, to rescue the financial system since the credit markets seized up 15 months ago.

The unprecedented pledge of funds includes $2.8 trillion already tapped by financial institutions in the biggest response to an economic emergency since the New Deal of the 1930s, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The commitment dwarfs the only plan approved by lawmakers, the Treasury Department’s $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program. Federal Reserve lending last week was 1,900 times the weekly average for the three years before the crisis.

When Congress approved the TARP on Oct. 3, Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson acknowledged the need for transparency and oversight. Now, as regulators commit far more money while refusing to disclose loan recipients or reveal the collateral they are taking in return, some Congress members are calling for the Fed to be reined in.

“Whether it’s lending or spending, it’s tax dollars that are going out the window and we end up holding collateral we don’t know anything about,” said Congressman Scott Garrett, a New Jersey Republican who serves on the House Financial Services Committee. “The time has come that we consider what sort of limitations we should be placing on the Fed so that authority returns to elected officials as opposed to appointed ones.”

Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6129318.html

[SpiralHawk]

1. "Goody, Goody. Smirk." - Fatcat republicon cronies

"Too bad (smirk) about you little people, you pathetically victimized American taxpayers. Bwaaa ha ha ha ha. Tooooooo bad. Smirk, smirk, smirk."

- Fatcat republicon cronies

[Changenow]

4. Don't kid yourself,

this is as bipartisan as it gets.

[SpiralHawk]

5. But republicons are 'leading' the way

to the Crapper O' Collapse.

[Changenow]

7. The Democrats are enabling them. nt

[SpiralHawk]

20. I agree. But it's because the so-called Dems have contracted 'Republicon Think'

embedded. It is a cancer of the soul, afflicting America.

[truedelphi]

75. We only have to look at the Geithner appt to see how

Strange a world it is.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Well at least the new President will be more sophisticated in appearance and with words than his predecessor. But for so many of us in soup lines it may not matter.

[droidamus2]

88. Yeah right

The Republicans plan all along has been to run up the debt so high that they never have to argue about social programs (or anything else the Democrats want to do) because all they will have to say is 'we don't have the money'. Whether they are in power or not they have stifled any ideas or programs that the Democrats might want to try for the forseeable future. As a side light they and their cronies have been able to pocket large sums of tax dollars.

[indepat]

11. The damage junior has wrought on this nation, its people, and the world will likely

aggregate in the tens of trillions of dollars when the counting is done, not to speak of the unspeakable number of deaths and amount of carnage and destruction, yet his aiders and abettors and enablers abound in unfathomable numbers and in my native state, 66% of us white folk voted to stay the course with McShame. :D

[hangman86]

93. But wait! According to his 2 or 3 supporters (1 or 0 if you don't include his parents)

history will determine what kind of President he was. 20 years from now, March 20th could be George W. day.:sarcasm:

[Changenow]

2. The question as to whether the Depression would be

with hyperinflation or with stagnation/deflation has now been answered.

They will get my retirement fund no matter what.

[Raschel]

41. I'm wondering about that myself. So far it looks like deflation.

[Popol Vuh]

99. On the fact that the banks are not lending out this money

but instead hording it actually make it in effect a retraction?

I was just wondering...

[DogPoundPup]

134. The banks are acquiring other banks, thus getting tax relief:"Treasury Dept.changed the Law"

stated in the article: "Some of the bailout assistance could come from tax breaks in the future. The Treasury Department changed the tax code on Sept. 30 to allow banks to expand the deductions on the losses banks they were buying, according to Robert Willens, a former Lehman Brothers tax and accounting analyst who teaches at Columbia University Business School in New York."

Also see; http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/09/AR2008110902155_pf.html

Why do we even have a Congress now?

[PSPS]

3. Isn't this getting kind of ... um ... ridiculous?

Hey! Why not a few hundred quadrillion while we're at it? Don't worry. We'll be "transparent" and continue to issue reports with the recipients' names blacked out like we've already been doing.

Why isn't anyone calling this what it has been all along: Bush looting the world?

[trusty elf]

12. Cashism?

:crazy:

[Jackpine Radical]

16. Shouldn't the amounts being "loaned"

also be blacked out in the interest of security?

[dixiegrrrrl]

72. Nawwww...we all know it is fiat money by now.

they are just trying to get the market up a few more times, delay the ineveitable.
All about timing, IMHO.

People seem to need to believe the parrot is sleepiing, not dead.

[tblue37]

125. Bread is gonna cost a million dollars a loaf if we aren't careful. nt

[truedelphi]

74. Equal opportunity enslavement - a lot of the info that comes to my private email

Is from RW groups. Cannot post the info here - because the websites somewhere along the line contain information that is spurious to certain ethnicities. (In some cases you have to spend a day or two on the website finding the troubling information)

So we have to avoid the Truth unless the Truth comes from people who are pure of thought in certain categories.

For instance, Ron Paul has been proclaiming the Major Truth about our Financial System all along. Yet someone will point out that he had racist behavior in the sixites. About that, I don't care - if he has the truth about the fundamentals of the economy we will all be free.

Whereas many who say they are not racist are indeed not racist - they intend to enslave all of us regardless of our race, religion, skin color, gender preferences, age etc.

[kimmerspixelated]

104. Excellent points!

[Kelvin Mace]

6. Where the Hell is all this money going to come from?

We are almost doubling the national debt in one fell swoop. You print this much money an the dollar will be worth less than zero.

[Changenow]

9. That's the point

The money will be created, making it worthless.

[Kelvin Mace]

48. With the end result that no one will EVER

loan us money again. No one will ever buy a T-Bill.

[demo dutch]

63. From places like China

[Kelvin Mace]

94. Nope.

They have their own meltdown in the works and the U.S. is now a bad credit risk.

[jimshoes]

8. I think I'd rather see this bailout

fail. I see a trend here. These crooks see if they can get away with a 700 billion ripoff, then when there are no consequeces, they up the ante by a factor of 10 and run that up the flagpole. They are running out of time however so they are making ridiculously stupid moves. Don't for god's sake get swindled again you jellyfish congress dolts.

[Changenow]

10. It won't. nt

[Pale Blue Dot]

61. I think you're wrong.

It will fail and we'll all be much worse for the attempt.

[lurky]

79. I wish I shared your confidence in our financial overlords.

:(

[truedelphi]

83. Jellyfish under the names and labels of both brands

The Demopublicans make me so angry.

And to think we lived to see the day when Issa and Kucinich are teaming up. If only the two of them had more power over this economic mess.

[Solly Mack]

13. K&R

...

[ixion]

14. son of a...

:argh:

This needs to stop. It should never have started. We have a full-on looting going on here that will saddle us with debt for generations to come.

[BootinUp]

15. what a clusterfuck. nt

[grantcart]

112. well that is the technichal term

[Phred42]

17. The Treasury has been sacked.

They are now stealing the last of our credit.

It's Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine - and WE have lost.


An Impeachment of Cheney and Bush 6 months ago could have prevent some of this.

Pelosi OWNS this.

[NorthCarolina]

44. Kucinich has been calling for Impeachment for how long now?

too bad America never took him serious enough to support him. Guess in hind site it reflects poorly on America's average collective intelligence.

[antimatter98]

18. The looting continues and Congress allows it.

Watch what happens in Jan when Obama tries to implement programs---hue and cry will be "we can't afford it!"

The Republicans have seen to it that America is on its knees and they will then turn around and blame Democrats for it.

Truth is, some Democrats were for deregulation, such as Robert Rubin, who is on the economic team for Obama now and who was Clinton's economic adviser---great advice, eh?

And, Congress went along: the major bill by Phil Gramm that brought on deregulation and basically repealed the Glass-Steagall Act was passed by Congress and signed by Clinton during the lame duck session in December 2000.

We've seen nothing yet. The losses will mount, layoffs will skyrocket beyond belief, and Congress will do nothing about it, only lots of talk, meetings, hearings, and heavy breathing on the Hill.

Just wait.

[balantz]

19. Hey Swindlers!

How's that two party system working out for you?

[bagrman]

58. I just see one big party, at our expence.

[balantz]

60. Me too. But the distraction game is the two party thing. n/t

[bagrman]

80. Can't launch a good fight if they keep the people devided.

[truedelphi]

90. The two party distraction doesn't work well for me

But re-filling my vicodeine prescription does wonders!

[SOS]

21. $7.4 trillion divided by # of taxpayers = $57,000 each

Wouldn't it have been better to run these "bail outs" through us?
A couple would receive a total stimulus of $114,000.
Condition the checks to be used to pay off debt, such as car loans, student loans, credit cards and mortgages.

My partner and I could have paid off our cards and mortgage with that amount.
We get out of debt and the money flows back to the creditors.

[balantz]

22. If it was our government we would be taken care of like that.

But it's not our government. It's the government of the elite.

[closeupready]

29. Yup. They don't care about the American people;

they care only about their own personal friends, colleagues, their own families.

[bdamomma]

32. of course, and we are allowing them to screw us too.

this is criminal what they are doing to the American people.

[Azlady]

86. You got it... they do not care about us! n/t

[robinlynne]

38. You should be on the economic team. I thought "trickle down" had been misproven

a long time ago.....

[JFN1]

49. Why do something that works

when it is so much easier just to steal?

[BonnieJW]

76. My thoughts exactly.

The money should have been paid bottom up. Pay off people's credit cards, mortgages, student loans, etc. The banks would have received the money, people would have been out of debt and ready to buy goods and services again. Top down NEVER works.

[4dsc]

23. Republican socialism!!

Say it loud say it proud!!

[hootinholler]

36. There is no part of this that is socialist.

It is fascist.

-Hoot

[harun]

70. Agreed, 100% fascist.

[Froward69]

24. what astonishes me is

has ANYONE DONE THE MATH??????????????????? if one divides the amount of money by the population, all of us US citizens become Millionaires!!! then the economy rights itself and we all have a grand Christmas.


instead it becomes a corporate giveaway to people who could not possibly spend it all in their lifetimes.

[truedelphi]

89. Oh but they have already spent it. It can be expensive to buy

out our Congressional critters.

[OneBlueSky]

25. they're gonna have to commandeer an awful lot of printing presses . . .

to crank out that kind of cash . . .

"Turn those machines back on! Turn those machines back ON!!" Mortimer Duke

[high density]

26. OK then, let's have the government lend directly to the people and businesses in this country

The idea of lending the money to banks so they can lend it to us obviously is not working based on our current experience with these banks. They use the money to shore up against losses and to fund their acquisition accounts.

[Fire1]

127. That's MY point! They're so busy lending to banks and businesses

"too big to fail," WE have been totally left out of the equation. The banks HAVE to get their money but don't HAVE to lend it! and if they DO lend it, the interest will be OUTRAGEOUS just like it is right now. This is absolutely FREAKIN' INSANE!!! Vicious cycle!

[mopinko]

27. sweet jesus.

they are gonna steal everything before they leave.
just please tell me that president obama is gonna prosecute some of these people.





sometimes i hate it when i am right.

[bdamomma]

33. if he doesn't we should

this is pure robbery.

[snappyturtle]

64. Absolutely. Theft in plain sight. If PE Obama doesn't prosecute some

of these people we will forever be their indentured servants.

[balantz]

28. The corporate elite don't give a damn about us.

They are setting up the chess board for one world government. American politics with its owned, two party system is just a sideshow to keep us distracted. Any person allowed by the corporate elite to approach the seat of POTUS is one of them.

Now watch what happens next. It won't be pretty.

[Hydra]

30. Heh, looting us "for our own good"

After a controlled crash.

"The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they're an irrelevancy. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They've long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They've got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you hear. They've got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying – lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else,"

"But I'll tell you what they don't want, they don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. You know what they want? Obedient workers – people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club."

George Carlin

As usual, the prophet was ignored.

[bdamomma]

34. Carlin was right.

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. "The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it"..

:thumbsup:

[Seldona]

109. He was right.

Perhaps his best work ever, and that is saying something with his career. Prophet is perfect imo. Visionary would certainly be apt.

I just hope Joe Pesci is being good to George. lol

[rucky]

31. Simply proposing this will bring the Dow down to nothing.

[whistle]

35. Well, nothing is a good starting point

[Dangerously Amused]

37. UNfuckingbelievable.

Good god, I hope Obama prosecutes these fucking criminals and is able, somehow, to recover at least some of the stolen money and property and return it to the rightful owners.

[AZ Criminal JD]

107. Obama voted for this or are you in denial about that?

[Dangerously Amused]

123. He may have voted for it but I guarantee you

...that a significant amount of this money will "mistakenly" and wrongfully end up in the greedy hands of various national and international players in Bush, Cheney & Friends, Inc.

[bvar22]

39. Hey.....I think I see a pattern !

Now we got Your Children's Money too !!!
And there is not a fucking thing you can do about it!
Now THAT is "Bi-Partisanship"!
Hahahahahaha......SUCKERS !



We're NOT paying.
We QUIT!

[balantz]

55. Looks like a bi-partisan effort to me!

I'd like to see this become a pattern!

[GreenTea]

42. "The U.S. government " is the fucking Bush administration, wanting to bankrupt social programs

in favor of getting their incompetent business friends gobs more money before they leave office in two month's. (and again, to cripple all programs that help people, (the same people paying the taxes) for social security, unemployment insurance, infrastructure, protections & deregulation of business and the environment, natural disasters, etc....these republicans hate money going back to help the people they want it for their corporations and socialism for the wealthy.

Fucking Bush and the republicans are blaming Obama?

The republicans will say it enough times and in two years every non astute voter in the country will believe it was Obama who caused the recession & bankruptcy.

[truedelphi]

84. oBama basically said "Good job there Brownie"

When questioned about Paulson by 'Sixty Minutes'

And his appointment of Geithner does not bode well.

There is only one party "the money party" even when most of us have no money.

[LatteLibertine]

97. Yep

Obama's attitude towards Paulson on 60 minutes shocked me.

[Seldona]

114. To be fair, that was before this.

Did he know about the insane numbers just being announced? Not sure. I sure as hell hope not. Did he know about the 2 trillion in secret loans that have already been made? It will be interesting to find out.

[truedelphi]

130. Sad thing is, Kucinich knew all about - but lacked Obama's looks

And demeanor. He and Issa make more sense than every other official in the government, but they lack the ability to prevent a bought out Congress from helping their buddies in the "financial industry."


One clue to Obama - Google 'geithner ' and then get back to me.

Obama seems overly friendly to the Clintonistas, and admittedly that group is a notch or two above Bush. But what a real economy needs is tariffs, and local job creation.

The Clintonistas have all been for Globalization and for NAFTA, HB-1 visas, etc.
Krugman is now saying how all of our current and dire economic mess is a nasty travesty - but he supported many of the pieces of the puzzle when they first came out between 1992 and 1999. To bad he couldn't have seen the bigger picture, isn't it?

It's only now that the house of cards is falling apart that any of those people are admitting what a bad joke has been played on those of us who lack the money to get proper policies put in place. (Of course actually the Big Boys in the Financial Industry lack the funds too - that is why they their Christmas bonuses etc so they can have the wherewithal to buy up Congress.)

[Raschel]

43. or half the value of everything produced in the nation last year

[BootinUp]

128. So if we work 36 hours every day

we can make up in just a year.

[truedelphi]

131. There is just about enough money asked for in the various

Bailout packages to induce God to change the laws of physics - maybe a thirty six hour day will be coming to a slave detention camp near us soon!

[KillCapitalism]

45. These numbers just get more absurd.

Pretty soon they're going to have to use exponential notation for these bailout figures.

[killbotfactory]

46. We're screwed.

[Fearless]

47. I love how soooo many people are vehemently against doing anything...

Which up until last month was the neo-con position. I love how soooo many people think that a New Deal like affair -- that FDR instituted in the 1930's -- is big business taking over. Excuse me while I laugh it up.


:rofl:


The fact is, it will work, if transparency is truly kept. If not, it won't. That's all.

[GreenTea]

51. Well that's because you obviously have nothingtoofear.....These fuckers, the republicans

and Bush are intentionally bankrupting us, giving money to the rich (corporations) and saying fuck the poor (and middle class), telling us they are "too big to fail" so bail us out so we can get even bigger and demand more in the future....they are forcing us to live with corporations in complete control as they steal all our tax dollars and we better not say shit....and be happy, because they will be providing the low paying jobs or nothing at all....certainly no government help....no money left after the bailouts, let the social programs die a slow and ugly death, purposely put forth by the republicans....a perfect plan grab all the money for the too big to fail corporations and leave no money left for the republican despised social programs...Grover Norquist's wet dream come true. "Transparency" (and regulations) is the progressives wet dream that will never come true, as to make every dime accounted for (which is necessary). Instead it'll be all lip service and business as usual by BushCo in the next two months. So let's all just laugh it up!

[Fearless]

53. I direct you thusly...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4526906&mesg_id=4526906

[GreenTea]

56. Too big to fail, because they provide millions of jobs so they can get even bigger

and too gigantic to fail? So they can dictate wages, lack of health care, gobbling up workers pensions and then demand more government help down the road as they always do....So that's fine just have the tax payers again use their own money to bailout corporations who pay less and offer less benefits to help pay themselves?

There's no better way for government to spend the trillions of our tax dollars? How about on good paying jobs, rebuilding our infrastructure, new light rails and other mass transportation offering tax breaks for companies to employ with green projects from power to cars, strengthen our health care system that these same corporations you support have neglected and cut and will continue to....there are many ways to create jobs with that money than to give it to these "too big to fail" extorting corporations you favor, this is a circle that will continue and continue as the corporations get even bigger and demand more in the future and we'll have nothing to show for it....no mass transit, just the same old merry-go-round and polluting....when jobs can be easily created to avoid both instead of giving it to the filthy rich corporations and their CEOs and VPs.....After all it's our taxes...why are we being blackmailed by these fuckers who purposely knew they could steal. lie and grab all the money so to put their corporations near bankruptcy....Because they KNEW full well they could demand hundreds of billions of tax dollars and receive them as too big to fail....So let's reward them with the workers tax dollars?

You tell me what's to stop them for doing it again & again down the road, and also tell me that we couldn't put more people to work building projects we so desperately need....the fucking republicans will scream 'socialism" but they certainly don't mind socialism for the rich and corporations which that have with the bailouts.....you seem to see thinks in the short term....give the corporations what they want, let the same shit occur....but you want "transparency" and I suppose and would hope regulations as well....well expect years and tons of money fighting for each....because with our tax money the corporations lobbyist will be able to fight them each and every step of the way!

[girl gone mad]

115. Finance Has Lost Sight of Its Role

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=114x48527

This is a misappropriation of resources.

[Odin2005]

101. Large parts of the so-called "progressive movement" has been infected with Libertarian Head Rot.

Remember all the DUers singing Ron Paul's praises?

I welcome the return of Big Government.

[Fearless]

133. In the words of Teddy Kennedy at the DNC in 1980...

"It's not about bigger government or smaller government... but BETTER government!"


I agree with you completely on the libertarian thing though... I didn't know that party unity meant party dilution as well.

:shrug:

[madrchsod]

50. it should be "print 7.4 trillion"

[HEyHEY]

52. Oh perfect! Just before Bush leaves he gets one final payoff to his friends

[Tab]

54. $7.4 TRILLION???

As in "TRILLION"??

Holy buttf*ck, Batman!

[RCinBrooklyn]

57. Complete enslavement of the American people to corporate mismanagement & greed.

[cooolandrew]

59. All they need is national healthcare that's the main component.

[JackDragna]

62. I'm about ready to stop paying taxes.

The government has no interest in serving me as an individual. None. Zero.

[MUAD_DIB]

73. Exactly Spot On!

Why should we continue to give them anything??!

Let's just raise the national debt to 30 trillion. How about 100 trillion?

[lumpy]

65. This is nuts. Blanket loans are what has been led to this

national problem and sure as hell the US government shouldn't be following in those murky footsteps. Each business should be handled individually, following the normal procedure of who ever has title/solid interest or solid investors (such as government) taking over the failing business.
The wild scramble to solve the problem is going to fail with the US taxpayer holding the bag and the 'fat cats' running with the spoils. Those 'fat cats',who have been running the capitalistic show for too damn long know how to work a good thing and are not to be trusted. They have had the economic power and are not going to give it to the people if they can help it.
This government simply doesn't do anything in an orderly manner.

[Politicalboi]

66. The looting

Has been going on since day one and they will continue till they leave. They have committed so many crimes where do you begin? So it makes sense to loot the treasury. Where will the government get the money to try these assholes. Maybe Bush/Cheney will loan us some of the money they stole so we can try them in court. Hopefully that word "Trillion" will sink in with America. It sure didn't mean shit 09/10/01 when 2.3 Trillion went missing at the Pentagon. Break out the calculator.

[maxsolomon]

67. 7.4 trillion borrowed or just "minted"?

time for the holders of debt (china, oil exporters) to step up & "lend", too.

[cyberpj]

68. Can we K&R this a little more to move it up the front page please?

-

[cyberpj]

69. Meanwhile....Citi, AIG Won't Drop paying MILLIONS for Big Sports Sponsorships

Citi, AIG Won't Drop Big Sports Sponsorships
Critics Slam Bailed-Out Firms' Pricey Deals for Naming Rights, Logo Placement
By JUSTIN ROOD
November 24, 2008

AIG, Citibank and a number of other federally bailed-out financial institutions have no plans to cancel hundreds of millions of dollars in sports team sponsorships, even as they take billions in taxpayer support, ABC News has found.

Despite collecting billions in bailout funds from the U.S. government, AIG and Citibank aren't giving up multi-million dollar sponsorship deals. AIG is paying the British soccer team Manchester United $125 million for the privilege of having its logo appear on Man U's uniforms, while Citibank has a 20-year contract to pay the New York Mets $400 million to name the team's new stadium "Citi Field."

In boom times, the sponsorships were seen as a way to advertise the firms' "brands" and appeal to potential customers. Even today, at least one bank told ABC News that a naming deal was increasing its revenue. But critics, including a member of Congress, say the decision to continue them now is hard to defend.

Struggling Citibank just sealed a multi-billion-dollar emergency "backstop" deal with the U.S. government. The financial behemoth, suffering with billions in bad mortgage-related assets on its books, recently shed 53,000 workers and saw its stock price lose over half its value. Yet it's in a 20-year contract to pay the New York Mets $400 million to name the team's new stadium "Citi Field."


http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6321691&page=1

[graywarrior]

71. And the leader of the free world is not held responsible

Ya ya, I know...it takes a village to fuck it up, but really...this is Georgie Boys doings and he's gonna walk away with a pocket full of dough, him and his "friends." Christ, trillions, gadzillions, fuckusuptheassgadillions....money means nothing anymore.

[McCamy Taylor]

77. Grover Norquist is bankrupting the government. That will only flush the economy down the toilet.

:nuke:

[OhioChick]

78. Holy shit!

Did I see "Trillion?" :wow:

[pam4water]

81. We can just start buring the currancy for heat now, since it;s about to become worthless.

[neomonkey]

82. D-Day

The Corporafascist Elite has declared war on the people.

Problem is, the people aren't even paying attention

[anonymous171]

85. That god damn fucking Fed.

[BelgianMadCow]

96. give me the power to control a countries' money supply and I will control them

a Rotschild speaking, IIRC.

The Fed is NOT a federal institution!! How many know this?

[illuminaughty]

135. Not many. We are unspeakably dumb.

There are some good documentaries out there and Eustace Mullins wrote extensively on the subject. I watched one years ago when the internet was young, but I'm sure there's tons of info on youtube.

Funny thing is my friend works for Fed.(auditor) Interesting joint.

[Kashka-Kat]

87. Can someone please explain this article to me??? Who is the "US government"

referred to in the first paragraph. WHO EXACTLY "is prepared to lend more than $7.4 trillion."

f you click on the link you see a picture of Obama's financial team as if making some kind of connection between Obama and this committment to spend 7.4 trillion.

I am not stupid - its just that this makes no sense to me. The article mentions people opposed but not who is moving this forward.

Actually it makes sense in context of Naomi Klein's recent writings/ commentary about how this all fits the usual neocon/ IMF modus operandi of bankrupting nations as a way of eliminating social programs, regulations or anything that might stand in the way of unrestrained giveaway or "privatization" of nation's assets.

(ex: Poland, Russia, Chile, Argentina, etc.)

[truedelphi]

92. In a real democracy you would have more than two parties.

Every nation on earth that has the things so many of us want and need, higher education, equitable income tax rates, Universal Single Payer Health Care, etc - all those natios have more than two parties. Sometimes there are even four or five parties.
Until we have that situation here, we won't have anything but a Banana Repulic.

The two parties prop each other up. The media is heavily slanted towards the RW fascistas. But notice that when asked about Paulson on Sixty Minutes, Obama does an Aw, gee Hank is so sweet, kinda routine that makes the "Good job Brownie" remark come to mind.

Our policies are bought and paid for. And as running for election is so prohibitively expensive, with the media controlling the debate, we will not see the needed changes within my lifetime (I am fifty six currently, though I look fifty-five!)

[illuminaughty]

136. Exactly. I'm currently bashing my skull on computer

for ending up HERE. I am so tired of explaining to fellow citizens that this is a real fucked up scenario we have disguising itself as a democracy. Every country I lived in that wasn't a Banana Republic had so many parties I couldn't begin to keep track of them.

In Italy (sorry, had to salivate a moment contemplating REAL food), when they didn't like the govt. they threw the bums out! With exception of Berlusconi, but that ia partly because of his ownership in the media. Still, they have the power to strike and shut the country down when they don't like what's happening.

And congrats on shaving that year off, I'm 53 but the last few months of economic worries has left me looking like the Portrait of Dorian Gray.:crazy:

[HughBeaumont]

91. I'd buy stock in wagon companies. Or wheelbarrow manufacturers. Or gym bag makers.

Because that's what we'll all be carrying our GeorgeMarks with to go buy milk.

[olddad56]

95. or shopping carts

That is my biggest fear, that by the time I'm homeless, there will be no more shopping carts.

[LatteLibertine]

98. Hmm

I could see some people stop being good little workers and paying their taxes.

[dabenpb]

100. Its about time we refuse to pay taxes, en masse.

What was the tax rate during the Revolution that caused all the uproar? Not only are these companies ripping us off as consumers, now they are stealing our current and future earnings. This shit has got to stop!

[Odin2005]

102. This thread is proof that the "Progressive" Movement has been infgected with Libertarian Insanity.

Spending in order to stimulate ourselves out of a looming deflationary DEPRESSION should be priority #1 right now, or there won't be an economy, period.

[Chan790]

103. I'm starting to wonder...

when Keynesianism became a bad thing to liberals.

[Odin2005]

106. Probably the same time liberals started thinking the Fed is some evil entity.

The "Central Banks are Evil" BS comes out of Austrian School Libertarian nonsense mixed in with the usual conspiracy theories (often anti-Semitic conspiracy theories) regarding banks.

I'll guess this BS started when the actions of Bush alienated Libertarian types, who jumped to our side and started spewing their Austrian School Kool-Aid everywhere. Look at all the DUers who think that "Financial Sense" web site is a legitimate source of economic information, it isn't, it's a Austrian School Libertarian Gold Bug nut site.

[grantcart]

113. Good thing FDR got turn around on balanced budgets

The only and I repeat only upside is that the collapse started before Obama took office.


Think of what it would be like if this had started 6 months from now.

[Odin2005]

132. When FDR tried to balance the budget the economy sliped back into recession in 1937.

[Zhade]

105. "Thank God It Passed!"

The rallying cry of the woefully misinformed.

[fascisthunter]

120. nah... I think those who said that are part of the fat cat class

or at least sucking the fetid tit of that fat cat class....

Facts be damned...

[balantz]

108. Economic Terrorism inflicted upon the people of the world by the ruling elite. n/t

[hay rick]

110. I love the smell of stimulus in the morning...

but most of the "$7.4 trillion" is lending, not spending. Sorry, but "the smell of liquidity" just doesn't cut it for a subject line.

As a casual observer of the economic scene, I see headlines on obscure subjects only to see said subjects disappear again into the mists a few days later. So I was interested to see the article mention that "The bailout includes a Fed program to buy as much as $2.4 trillion in short-term notes, called commercial paper, that companies use to pay bills, begun Oct. 27..."

More on this subject here:http://www.newyorkfed.org/markets/cpff_faq.html

It sounds like maybe the Fed IS the commercial paper market.

[BelgianMadCow]

111. "The unprecedented pledge of funds includes $2.8 trillion already tapped"

WTF pledging stuff that has already been handed out? Nice way to retroactively communicate.
Luckily there was such a great public debate about it. :crazy:

[paparush]

118. Transparency? We don't need no stinking transparency.

We just need to keep our heads down and keep grinding away for our corporate masters. Our job is to stay in debt up to our ears and to pass that debt on to the next generation.

[BelgianMadCow]

121. Well we don't have to DO anything to incur debt

they inflate a 600 trillion derivatives bubble and present us & our children the bill.

This is grand theft economy in broad daylight.

[Joanne98]

116. The BFEE is looting the treasury before they go!

[paparush]

117. Grover Norquist's Bathtub is filling up quickly. The end of Govt entitlement by Bankruptcy.

Social Security? Sorry.
Medicare? Sorry.
Medicaid? Sorry.
School Lunch? Sorry.
Student Loans/Grants? Sorry.
Infrastructure? Don't make me laugh.

Its the Death of the New Deal; once and for all. Bush** fulfilling Prescott Bush's legacy.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

126. You're right, the not so secret agenda, the end of Social Security and Medicare w/ the Democratic

Party making it happen.

[totodeinhere]

119. Now we see the total destruction that shrub and the neocons have brought us.

[and-justice-for-all]

122. holy fuck!!

Then Nationalize the entire fucking system!!

or how many states are they giving to China/Saudi Arabia for all that cash??

[Spectral Music]

124. WHAT? WHAT THE FUCK?

We are borrowing money to give to banks. Where are we borrowing it from? Other banks?

[balantz]

129. From our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Not to mention from the mouths of those countless victims the world over, many of whom will suffer and die from this economic terrorism.