State justice confirms he yelled "Tyrant" at Mukasey before AG collapsed

[Newsjock]

Source: Seattle Times

Richard Sanders, a justice on the Washington State Supreme Court, has never been one to shy from controversy or blunt language. And last week, as he sat at a Federalist Society dinner and listened to Attorney General Michael Mukasey, Sanders reached his tipping point.

After listening to Mukasey defend the Bush administration's counterterrorism policies — its detainment practices at Guantánamo Bay, its interpretation of the Geneva Conventions' reach — Sanders stood and shouted "Tyrant! You are a tyrant!"

"Frankly, everybody in the room was applauding or sometimes laughing, and I thought, 'I've got to stand up and say something.' And I did," Sanders told The Seattle Times Tuesday. "I stood up and said, 'Tyrant,' then I sat down again, then I left.

... Mukasey's collapse occurred well after Sanders shouted at him, and the two events appear unrelated.

Read more: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008435605_websanders25m.html

---

Link to statement from Sanders here:
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/seattlepolitics/archives/155442.asp

[MrModerate]

1. Dang, if I thought Bush's toadies would fall down if you yelled the truth at 'em . . .

I'd have bought a bullhorn 8 years ago.

[Cobalt-60]

35. Pump Up the Volume!

Maybe we can hit the resonant frequency of Cheney's pacemaker.

[Piewhacket]

56. Funny.... but NERD ALERT! LOL.

Cobalt-60 is an artificially produced radioactive isotope of cobalt used as a
radioactive tracer and in cancer treatment.

"Resonance Frequency" is a term used in physics (/engineering) to describe the frequency at which
a (mechanical, acoustic, electromagnetic, and quantum) system oscillates at maximum amplitude,
sometimes to destruction.

Cobalt-60 as a handle implies cancer patient, radiologist, med tech (or nuclear physicist).
"Resonance Frequency" implies technical training. Based on med ref I suggest Chemistry,
where the term is introduced in discussion of NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance).

In sum, the combination spells N.E.R.D. (with a twisted sense of humor)

Oh my gosh, my long lost brother! :)

[DissedByBush]

83. Or...

He's a fan of the band Cobalt 60, with Front 242's Jean-Luc de Meyer.

[Cobalt-60]

106. You got me. I've been a nerd for a long time

I got my initial exposure, if you'll pardon the expression, in the Navy.
I got an Aerospace Engineering degree later.
I picked my nick because of the nasty gamma it emits.
(And I like cobalt blue.)
Resonance is pretty cool.
If you time it right a dab of energy can do a lot.

[Piewhacket]

107. I'll try to stay clear of your gamma, for sure.

Exposure, Navy, gotcha.
Glad to see Navy (ret?) represented in DU.
:patriot:

Agree that timing is important.
In fact, as you know with "resonance" its the frequency (timing, pitch)
that is critical, not the volume. :)
And that is something worth knowing.

In short, takes one to know one. (Physics... er.. and some other stuff).
Enjoyed your post and share your sentiment.

[blackbart99]

89. Yeah...now thats creative thinking cobalt-60...n/t

[Diane R]

2. Wow. I'm proud that he's on the SC for my state!

[napoleon_in_rags]

5. Me too!

[Twinguard]

79. me too!!

[Ms. Toad]

39. Really?

And would you like to be in front of him on an abortion issue?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9402EED8143BF931A15750C0A961958260

[Generic Other]

43. He's a loose cannon for sure

Still, this time he was right on. I'm kinda proud of him being as he's from my state and all. Liberal or conservative, folks in Washington state don't like Bush appointees.

[Ms. Toad]

46. Loose cannons, by any other name

might be mavericks...I prefer my judges to have a more even temperament so that I can reasonably count on their decisions to have some relation to the law.

[Generic Other]

105. so he's one of the anti-choice wackos...they aren't winning here anyway!

The fact that he's a nut and their nut is enough for me to like him. In the same way I like Sarah Palin. As a buffoon and a tool.

[Muttocracy]

54. anti-abortion, conservative, loose cannon...

Thanks for that bit of research. I'm glad he spoke up, but that doesn't undo everything else.

[Ms. Toad]

58. There was some mention in the OP article

about his speech in connection with an anti-abortion rally - sort of sounded like he was on the wrong side of the issue. I just checked it out.

[DBoon]

70. so he's another Ron Paul?

nt

[Aristus]

47. And me!

Washington, my home!

Let's hear it for the Evergreen State! :bounce::bounce::bounce:

[12string]

3. Thank you

Glad to hear someone speak out.From my state makes it even better.

[still_one]

4. we can thank schummer for mukasey /nt

[Kolesar]

14. I am sure that you burned up the wires sending emails to Congress & the press to stop him

:sarcasm:

[Pale Blue Dot]

25. I did. What's your point? nt

[still_one]

48. I called his office, along with my Senators office in Californi voicing my objections

but as you implied it falls on deaf ears

[Name removed]

16. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MsLeopard]

33. You can thank Feinstein too

And I did burn up the phone lines, fax machine, and email too trying to talk to that DINO. But, just like she voted for the absurd bankruptcy bill, and the equally aburd Big Pharma bill, she of course did as she always does and voted Rethug.

[peacetalksforall]

37. Yes SCHUMER AND FEINSTEIN LED IT.

Damaged and dangerous Senior Senators.

[ooglymoogly]

64. Shumer, Feinstein and Hoyer with Rahm cheering them on.

[rhett o rick]

42. Yes, so don't count her in your quest for a filibuster proof Senate. nm

[wryter2000]

49. Exactly

I don't know why everyone's so excited about the number 60. It's not like we're going to be able to depend on all of them to do the right thing. If we get to 60, and people at DU expect we're going to start busting Republican filibusters, there's going to be a lot of disappointment. Frankly, I wouldn't be too surprised if a couple of Rs won't do the right thing while several of the Ds don't.

[rhett o rick]

50. Agree. nm

[arikara]

57. Its nothing more than a stupid red herring

The dems wouldn't fillibuster themselves when they could because of fear over the nukyular option. Now they won't pass anything because they fear the repukes will get it together enough to fillibuster.

Like it isn't a one party system or something.

[Ignis]

60. Well, she'll vote with us on equality, gay rights, etc.

But god forbid someone get in the way of her support for wars, corporations, or bloated military contracts.

Oh, I'm sorry, that's "defense" contracts. :eyes:

[bobd0]

53. And Feinstein nt

[disndat]

61. Mukasey created an uproar

when he gave away the bank to Cantor Fitzgerald and Silverman Properties for damages wrought by the WTC 9//11, Bush' kick off to the Middle East war for oil. Feinstein became a huge war profiteer and Schumer is alwys on the look out for his Wall Street cronies.

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. And Cantwell. n/t

[xxqqqzme]

69. Don't foget DIFi was right

there, going along w/ Chucky on that nomination. It so angered Democrats to our state convention, there was a resolution to record our displeasure at her ignoring the thousands of phone calls her office received. Two wimps, from Orange County, on the resolutions committee, voted against it, so they effectively killed it. It didn't even make it to the floor for an honest debate.

[LaPera]

6. How republican criminals hate the truth....

Protecting Bush, ignoring obvious crimes, never allowing them to be investigated or go to court, this is justice, the US AG job?

No.

[Pastiche423]

7. Judge Richard Sanders

[Divine Discontent]

10. most impressive he stood up and spoke up at the lunacy of this mis-administration

I have no negative feelings about the AG health wise, and wish him the best. He is awful old looking for being 5 years younger than McCain!

[Hekate]

8. Well done, Judge Sanders!

:fistbump: :toast: :applause: :toast:

Hekate

[happychatter]

9. oh.my.god - a supreme? - wow, just wow. - nt

[jwirr]

32. That is what I was thinking. A truth teller.

[Muttocracy]

55. see the posts up and downthread - he's an anti-abortion conservative. nt

[Edweird]

11. Good on him. Can we get him to a * speech?

:patriot:

[SpiralHawk]

12. Finally, someone speaks truth to power

Republicon homelanders are tyrants.

Mukasey collapes with just a wee taste of truth.

[Preening Fop]

13. What a Great way to start the day, reading this report. Thank You Newsjock.....!

:)

[geckosfeet]

15. bOOsh administration officials speaking at Federalist society meetings!?

[99th_Monkey]

17. You just couldn't make this shit up .... it's so off the chart ...

... damn .... Mukasey .. Barbara Bush ... down for the count ... .wasn't there
another Con that got a case of "dropsy" recently? A congressman maybe? ...?

[OnyxCollie]

24. What happened to Babs? nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Taken to emergency last night; tests came back negative

No heart or brain.

[barbtries]

28. lol

sometimes it seems like these fuckers are destined to live forever, as countless others lives are cut short or destroyed for their greed.

[windbreeze]

30. kind of like a type of

vampire....others die, so they can live, how gruesome is that anyway? wb

[shadowknows69]

18. Sonic powers? Magic? Power of negative thinking?

Someone call Tim Kring. I think we have a new hero among us.

[liberal N proud]

19. The truth hurts?

[PerpetuallyDazed]

20. Righteous...

:thumbsup:

[bobd0]

21. The Federalist Society should be banned and its members arrested. nt

[NinetySix]

36. Bullshit.

If you support banning heterodox points of view and arresting people who hold them, then I think you should thank your lucky stars that even the Bush Administration itself isn't that extreme, else you'd be looking at a tropical Cuban sun through the chainlink fence at Camp X-ray right now.

I know you were probably being glib, but the time for glibness has passed. Conservatism, even in its most virulent forms, is no real threat so long as there is an unfettered and vibrant marketplace of ideas. It is an intellectually bankrupt philosophy, and will wither on its own in competition with progressive ideas.

It is Ad Baculum arguments like this which threatened us back in the darkest days of 2003, and they have no place in an open, democratic society.

[Doctor_J]

45. This has nothing to do with banning heterodoxy

The Federalist Society is anti-American, anti-Constitution, totalitarian and fascist.

[NinetySix]

63. Perhaps.

And yet, when you ban certain voices, any voices, you undermine the democratic process by silencing ALL from particiption. If there were someone who, for instance, advocated killing all (insert ethnic group here), the position he openly advocated would be undermined by the revulsion it fomented in other citizens. Only when it moves underground does it gain currency and strength. Darkness breeds rats. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

No orthodoxy. It is inimical to Liberty.

[Hawkowl]

84. Germans banned Nazi's

And their democracy seems to be a lot healthier than ours. Openly advocating for a fascist system, as many "federalists" do, could be viewed as sedition in war time. Lincoln used sedition laws and Obama idolizes him. We can only hope.

[NinetySix]

93. I wouldn't underestimate the health of our own democracy,

especially in light of the overwhelming (and I must say faith-restoring) results of our last election. Over the last 28 years, my faith in the strength of American ideals as held by its citizens has been steadily eroding. I don't know what kind of a President Barack Obama is going to be, but the last time I had such optimism following an election was 1992 (after which I was fairly soon disappointed). There may yet be some very bright, very politically vibrant and productive days ahead of us, both in the near-term and in the long-term. Having been burned before, I'm nonetheless still warily optimistic.

As far as German democracy is concerned, they have been moving steadily rightward since reunification. If you've ever been to central Europe, you know that fascism and neo-Nazism are real concerns. The National Socialist Party is banned in Germany, and yet the strength of the movement grows incrementally because of economic policies that leave many in the East unable to find work, and without a political voice. Don't think that banning a political party silences its voice or blunts its influence any more than prohibition stops the steady flow of banned substances, or the abolition of legal abortion will stop the practice of pregnancy termination. Those things that are banned always seem to find an unhealthy and unregulated corner underground in which to fester. When the spotlight of reason is cast upon unreasonable ideas, they are not nearly so attractive as they were in the dark (witness the analogy of the hot guy or chick you thought you had met at the bar before the lights came up at 2am).

Your point about sedition laws is absolutely in line with my point. Perhaps in time of invasion or insurrection, an argument can be made that those sorts of laws are appropriate. I'd have to see both the situation and the argument. But otherwise, freedom of speech should be extended to its greatest practical limit, despite the discomfort of some citizens with the warts of incivility on the political discourse.

[TankLV]

99. Good point...too easily forgotton with the bullshit arguments supporting EVERYTHING...

[bobd0]

72. Precisely

[bobd0]

71. The Bush administration isn't that extreme?

Where have you been for the past eight years? At Federalist Society meetings?

Why don't you ask Don Siegelman about that? Or all of those guilty until proven innocent captives who are looking at a tropical Cuban sun in Camp X-Ray right now. Or those nine dismissed U.S. Attorneys.

[NinetySix]

75. Not as extreme as what you're advocating.

Quote:
"The Federalist Society should be banned and its members arrested. nt"

Imagine your reaction had you gone to Free Republic and read, quote:
"Greenpeace should be banned and its members arrested. nt"
or:
"Amnesty International should be banned and its members arrested. nt"
or:
"MoveOn should be banned and its members arrested. nt"
Now imagine if that proposed step were actually taken by the Government with regard to ANY political group. Would that be Liberty? Would that be democracy?

I think Don Siegelman would understand precisely what my point is. His political leanings and ideas were in conflict with Bush's orthodoxy, and the next thing he knew, an election had been stolen from him in the middle of the night, then he was under indictment, then he was serving time in a Federal penitentiary. What I'm talking about is the liberty to speak and advocate freely without fear of legal repercussions.

And where have I been? I've been living in Canada. Let me tell you a funny story. During a Federal election campaign a few years ago, I was watching the CBC one evening. CBC took one hour of programming time from 11 to midnight to show political ads. There were many 30-second and minute-long spots, all of which they aired for free, but several caught my eye. One was for the Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada. One was for the Communist Party of Canada. And one was for the Canadian Maoist party. Let me ask you, if any of the analogous American political parties had offered ANY station or network in the US ANY amount of money to air their ads, do you think anyone would have consented to let those ads go out over the air? Perhaps, but certainly not without a very pointed disclaimer beforehand, so that the station could explicitly disavow any relationship with the party in question, other than a purely business relationship. The fact that the CBC not only made time during a political campaign to air all party ads, but allowed them all to air for free is indicative of a nation's and a society's commitment to freedom of speech.

Even at the height of McCarthyism, when directors and entertainers were being publicly blacklisted for holding leftist political beliefs, no group was banned and no one was arrested for being a Communist. What happened was bad enough, and I'm sure that some on the other side advocated what you have just explicitly advocated, but thank the stars above it never came to pass. McCarthyism didn't work to strengthen the United States, but only served to marginalize some citizens for the benefit of others' ideology. Let's never go back. No official Government sanction for some points of view and not others.

I'm not trying to make enemies, and I'm not calling you out, but freedom of speech must be tempered by a personal sense of responsibility, tolerance, and respect. Let us never attempt to marginalize anyone by officially banning them, but allow them to marginalize themselves in the court of public opinion through their own words.

I am a RADICAL believer in the freedom of speech. It is the most fundamental aspect of democracy, and one we seek to endanger at our own peril, as without it, democracy must wither and die. I don't care to prevent you from speaking your mind, but if I think you've stepped over the line, I'll take it upon myself to chastise you, citizen to citizen. It is not only every citizen's right, but every citizen's duty.

[bobd0]

91. Is what I'm advocating as extreme as The Bush Doctrine, Charlieeeee??? nt

[NinetySix]

92. Really.

That seems to be as well thought-out a response as you've been able to proffer thus far. If I had to guess, I would say that you're likely quite a bit younger than me, and as steeped in the ridiculously mindless politics of the last 20 years as you must be, formulating a coherent and insightful response aimed at achieving a productive intellectual outcome must be quite difficult for you.

Politics is not a football game, and it's not chimps screaming, jumping up and down, and throwing their feces. It's serious business, because it involves serious citizens with apparently intractable differences speaking together calmly and rationally in an attempt to forge a collective future for ourselves through compromise. It's ironic that you reference Sarah Palin's inarticulate response to a legitimate question in response to my raising of a serious issue.

[bobd0]

95. It seems while you were formulating your coherent and insightful responses

Bush and scumbags like The Federalist Society were kicking your ass as if politics was a football game and you were a high school team playing the Super Bowl champs.

The only serious issue you've raised is how egg heads like you enabled Bush/Cheney to come very close to ruining this nation, if not in fact succeeding, while you took eight long years forming your coherent, insightful responses.

[NinetySix]

98. Eggheads like me.

An informed and articulate electorate is the lifeblood of democracy. I chose as my avatar a picture of Thomas Jefferson, and it is his commitment to citizen participation in every aspect of our democracy, including its intellectual underpinnings, which provides us with a model of democracy that still stands as the ideal more than two centuries later. Read de Tocqueville and see how he marvelled that even the uneducated citizenry of the young Republic were aware of the political issues of the day and had sophisticated opinions regarding them. Politics is inextricably linked to ideas. Action is admirable and indispensable, but necessarily secondary.

The right failed because it is intellectually bankrupt, and the left has succeeded because of its ideas. These ideas do not spring forth fully formed like Aphrodite from the brow of Zeus. They must be forged and tempered through intensive discourse, where only the most cogent and compelling survive. Since we are (nominally) on the same side, I am surprised you would hold me and my ideas in such unreflective contempt.


I've tried to engage you in a political discussion, but as much ink as I've spilled on you, it seems to be fruitless. You've responded with nothing but scorn and vitriol. Has the last eight years driven you mad, as it nearly did me? I'm certain you must have some real and substantial ideas underlying your fervor, but you're evidently unwilling to share them with me. It's too bad.

[bobd0]

101. So you don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot, hmmm?

steeped in the ridiculously mindless politics of the last 20 years as you must be

BTW, for all of his intellectual prowess Jefferson was a slave owner who had a relationship with a 16 year old slave that would place him in jail for child molesting these days. He also refused to read newspapers.

I have some real ideas. They begin with accountability for the motherfuckers who have brought this nation to the brink of ruin and end with them on death row.

[NinetySix]

102. Now I'm hearing some ideas I can sink my teeth into.

First:
"steeped in the ridiculously mindless politics of the last 20 years as you must be...."

That's not intended as a slur on you (in contrast to "Where have you been for the past eight years? At Federalist Society meetings?" or "egg heads like you," etc.), but an indictment of what the last 20 years have turned our discourse into. Politics was much more issue-driven prior to Reagan and his adoring minions, and after Lee Atwater, all bets were off, except that nastiness and namecalling became a political winner. I must admit one thing: I had a soft spot in my heart for Clinton, because when they tried that shit on him, he proved he could beat that tactic by taking them to the woodshed every time. It wasn't necessarily constructive, but the GOP's dental health must have suffered badly from all the teeth-grinding they must have done. So it was at least gratifying.

But the times are changing, as they always do. Late 20th-Century politics was an artifact of its time, but it will be the end of Western civilization if we don't stop sniping and start talking. We can't explore the pressing issues of our own time if we gag some voices, leaving only those with the official Government stamp of approval to work out solutions. Those solutions will serve only those at the table, and the more we marginalize certain segments of the citizenry, the more specifically tailored those solutions will be to an ever-shrinking minority of voices. That's a recipe for social discontent and unrest. Do you admire the browbeating style of Rush Limbaugh which has held sway as the template for our political discourse since ca. 1994? Of course you don't, and neither do I. It is destructive to democracy and dangerous to civility. Let us not arm both sides for war by adopting the means of the nastiest elements of the other side. I don't want to be hearing the two-minutes-hate ramblings of a Lefty Limbaugh in ten years, either.

Liberty entails equality. Freedom without equality exists, but it isn't called Liberty; it's called privilege. That is at the absolute heart of everything I've been saying.

An olive branch:
"I have some real ideas. They begin with accountability for the motherfuckers who have brought this nation to the brink of ruin...."
You and me both. I propose initially that we allow international charges to be brought against all of the actors of the Bush Administration who had a hand in engineering our adventurist foreign policy fiasco since 2002. Then we extradite them all to the Hague for a public trial, like Milosevic. Then we repatriate them all, place them in isolation in a carefully insulated hole in the ground (for life), and teach our children and posterity in very specific terms about the dangers of abdicating the responsibilities required by our collective principles.

[TankLV]

100. False "equivalency" crap. Your argument is NOT the same thing at all...

First of which is because the liberal positions you cite are GOOD things, while the Nazi's and Federalist bullshit are BAD things...they are NOT equivalent or of equivalent influence or equivalent affect...

[NinetySix]

103. My point exactly.

You and I can both see that as clear as day. Do you think that skinheads and neo-Nazis embrace their ideas because they are self-admittedly evil people who wish to sow the seeds of evil in the world and undermine all that is good in society? They naively think they're fighting for what's right, and the fact that they can get no sanctioned forum for their ideas only serves to strengthen their resolve and intensify the violence of their response.

What we see as good has been misrepresented and caricatured to them as evil by the propaganda of underground demagogues, and what they see as good has been represented to them as such through twisted logic and emotional appeal, while it is morally repugnant to us. Skinheads and neo-Nazis don't think for themselves, and they don't discuss. However, if those ideas were open to a discussion that was accessible by all and subject to the strictures of reason, perhaps the reach of those now-illicit ideas would not extend as far. Isolating certain ideas and their adherents only makes those ideas self-reinforcing, and their adherents more zealous.

We don't ban the ideas of astrology or palm reading. Some buy that crap, others don't. But allowing them to be aired serves the purposes of education when they are compared side-by-side with, for instance, astrophysics and genetics. They are not taught in schools or universities, and for the same reason Intelligent Design is not: they simply do not have the logical strength to compete with the cogent and comprehensive scientific theories they cartoonishly try to emulate. Let everyone into every discussion, and the illegitimate and irrational ideas will be separated from the mainstream like the chaff from the wheat.

[HillbillyBob]

90. I was thinking the same thing about Siegelman that is

I used to live in Nazibama. met most of the names in that little cohort of fascists.
My ex mother in law was a big supporter of bob riley from way back.I lived by the Gov Mansion.
Hell even George Wallace said the booshes were a bunch of crooks. "They make the mafia seem like church deacons"
Don Siegalman seemed to be about the only sane one in Alabama government.
I have to wonder what all the Bushys did that we don't know about yet. How many in the black prisons are innocents that only disagreed with the fascists? Or were just folks snatched off the street for the bounty ? I know of at least 3 reporters or camera men that US forces picked up because they worked for Al Jezeera and saw war crimes. It is a wonder that those fired prosecutors were not sent to gitmo.

[brentspeak]

88. My solution is that Federalist Society members be denied judicial appointments

and good legal jobs. Nothing illegal about it, and the nation comes out ahead in the short and long terms.

[NinetySix]

94. Absolutely right. Although no LEGAL sanction should apply,

there will always be social and political consequences to espousing fringe ideas. If you make no secret of the fact that you can't stand, say, people of Asian descent, don't cry and complain when you're shunned in Chinatown. I think the GOP's time in the wilderness is likely going to make Federalist Society members, Liberty University and Regent graduates, American Spectator alumni, and former Fox News anchors have to look a lot harder for work.

All's right with the world.

[bobd0]

96. Sounds good to me. After all, it's what they've been doing to non-Federalists for 8 years. nt

[BlueMTexpat]

22. Justice Sanders doesn't appear to be a liberal judge ...

or he wouldn't have been at a meeting of the Federalist Society in the first place. :think:

Still, he certainly believes in speaking his mind, and "tyrant" is actually tame for what I would call Mukasey.

From the article posted: <...>
In his speech, Mukasey said that almost every article in the treaty is "plainly addressed to armed conflicts among the nations that signed the Conventions. It is hardly surprising that the United States concluded that those provisions would not apply to the armed conflict against al-Qaida, an international terrorist group and not, the last time I checked, a signatory to the Conventions."
Sanders, on Tuesday, said that being a signatory was beside the point. "I didn't sign the Geneva Conventions, you didn't sign the Geneva Conventions, but the United States did sign the Conventions. And that's the point, isn't it?"
<...>

That IS the point in part. The rest of it is that merely being a member of a terrorist group (much as I loathe al Qaeda or any other such, make no mistake about that) does not automatically remove one's nationality. Removal of nationality requires a process. Nationals of other countries who are signatories to the Geneva Conventions have effectively been stripped of any associated human rights by BushCo's interpretation, merely because BushCo asserts that they are members of Al Qaeda. They don't even have to prove a connection to Al Qaeda and that's the Catch-22. So, we are holding hundreds of prisoners at Gitmo and thousands more in undisclosed locations around the world on mere BushCo assertions.
Are some of them members of al Qaeda? Possibly. But on what basis ... on what track record ... do we trust mere BushCo assertions? :banghead:

Supposing, for example, that some country decided that the Republican party is an international terrorist group (based on the "Bush Doctrine" which a majority of them support): if that country followed the Mukasey/BushCo rationale, it could "justify" the capture, rendition, torture and indefinitely (infinitely?) being held prisoner without trial of Republicans because the Republican Party is not a signatory party to the Geneva Conventions. Sanders "gets" it. :applause:

[humbled_opinion]

23. I think this all stems from

"You are either with us, or you are with the Terrorists"

[peacetalksforall]

34. What really obsesses me - is that there are innocent people being

tortured and kept in prison - for practical purposes- al Queda is the lie. Al Queda 'membership' is a lie.

Some are being held -

. because they may know something - they are the fishes - and we are fishing

. to get able bodied men off the streets so that pipelines can be built and operate with security

. because their enemies lied and possibly received rewards for lying

. because they 'looked' like they qualified as al Queda

. because there are language, body movements, cultural gaps a mile wide between these humans

. because their superiors lied to our soldiers

These are probable practical reasons based on logic and some on what we've heard (personal enemies has been given as a reason).

Once in, not exits.

We are probably going to find that Guantnamo was used for distance convenience and then kept open because they could direct attention there and allow prisoner and war associations to inspect it. The rest of the prisons are secret and citizens of other countries are also being allowed to conduct the torture.

This is all to say, that all the practical angles for picking these people up and then telling us that they only picked up al Queda MEMBERS is tyranny. Cold blodded, hate filled tyranny by profiteers.

In addition, there are boys in those prisons.

Millions of dollars have been used to fly them to, not from, those prisons and pay for them.

Who is going to pay for it monetarily when they are freed?

Who is going to pay for it because they were the ones who ordered it and carried it out? WHIG and the Pentagon, plus contractors.

The Federalist Society were the enablers. Yoo and Gonzales got their backing from the not very illustrious Federalist Society.

We are the impure nation. We invaded. But not all of 'us' - the 'we' is contained to people with a monetary agenda.

[Alpharetta]

40. They were sold into prison and torture. US paid bounties

The bounties the US offered caused innocents to be sold into captivity. False accusations were generated from the monetary rewards offered and for the chance to get rid of neighbors or rivals or payback old grudges.

[barbtries]

27. i have such respect

for people who stand up and say what needs to be said. i'm too much of a wimp. working on it, but the best i think i could have done had i been there was walk out. of course it's moot because i would not have been there. but richard sanders has my respect.

[TheCowsCameHome]

29. Quick - somebody yell at Bush and Cheney

This could be the start of something good.

[glitch]

62. Everybody should yell "Tyrant!" at any bushbot they run across, just on the off chance.

and if it doesn't work at least we'll let them know we know who and what they are.

No more "passing" as civilized for them.

[mnmoderatedem]

31. that's odd

I always thought Les Nessman was more conservative minded.

Hope somebody gets that reference. :silly:

[LiberalFighter]

38. Better to be Les than the guy in the plaid suit.

[M155Y_A1CH]

44. Unrelated seasonal quote

"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!!!" -- Arthur Carlson, WKRP in Cincinnati.

[Bigmack]

41. I had this guy speak in my classroom once.

A weird combination of Libertarian, Soft Republican, and
weird!

[Piewhacket]

51. OK. Anyone got Mukasey's remarks? I might want to ....

call him a tyrant myself. Perhaps other names will occur to me.
Others might want to join me.

Senators who OK'ed Mukasey might want to find some cover.
This "debate" over unlawful torture and detention was
never going to end well, but end it must.

Let us begin a new debate about something more sensible,
like what Mukasey might have been done differently to avoid
an angry mob from hoisting him up on a sharp pole on the
Justice steps.

Mukasey is a public figure, an important govenrnment official.
Anyone got a transcript of his remarks?

[Bucky]

68. Just as he was keeling over, he said....

"Aaaaah!!"

[Piewhacket]

73. Probably the only thing he said that wasn't unbelievably stupid.

[Mithreal]

52. Richard Sanders, thank you for standing up to tyrants. nt

[Poll_Blind]

59. Ha! Good for Mr. Sanders! I don't care if Mukasey collapsed on Christmas morning...

...right as Tiny Tim was God-blessing ev-er-y one! Mukasey is a bastard. Where in the Bleeding-Heart Liberal Handbook does it say that when you back off of Ancient Evil just because Evil's in poor health?

  For those- cause there were alot of them, all koom-ba-yah-ing over Mukasey after his collapse, did you feel the same way about the aged Pinochet? The elderly Pol Pot? How about Adolf Eichmann- who, I think, was more comparable to Mukasey in their motives and the role they played in the cornucopia of Evil deeds which have unfolded under Bush.

  Bush and his cronies have killed us- have killed America's future. Make no doubt about it- it's not like we're grievously wounded. We're fucking dead. Hopefully Obama's financial CPR won't be too late to bring us back.

PB

[KamaAina]

66. Sic semper tyrannis

:evilgrin:

[Bucky]

67. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can faintly hurt me

[autorank]

74. k*r GREAT WORK JUSTICE SANDERS

You speak for all of those sentient beings who are awake and functioning.

More of this has to take place and, at some point, when the full impact of the tyranny is
understood by enough, we're going to need a house cleaning of the federal judicial system.

Great post-thanks.

[Politicalboi]

76. Were the two events unrelated?

Probably not. He probably started thinking about it and collapsed. Good. I hope this shit brings him down even more.

[Kire]

77. Where's the fucking money, Lebowski?

That rug really tied the room together.

[PatrynXX]

78. coincidence stuff

bumped into an episode of ick Golden Girls the other day and the girls were in court over a tree with a foul neighbor... and at some point she walked up to the lady and said whatever and if she couldn't see it she should drop dead. A few moments lateer thats what she did. Little shock to the system of people used to having it there way. Bonk. Welcome to the real world.

[crisdecuba]

80. Here here!

I'm all for standing up and saying something. :)

[John Kerry VonErich]

81. Now why do I get the feeling that Mukasey FAKED the spell?

He was perfectly fine the day after. Guess he was trying to keep this out of the headlines. The things they do......

[rhett o rick]

85. I have been yelling "tyrant" at Cheney's picture all day. Heard anything?? nm

[Vattel]

82. democrats that helped to give us that tyrant:

Chuck Schumer of New York, Diane Feinstein of California, Evan Bayh of Indiana, Tom Carper of Delaware, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana and Ben Nelson of Nebraska. Of the Senate's two independents, Joe Lieberman of Connecticut voted for confirmation and Bernie Sanders of Vermont voted against.

Not voting were Democratic presidential candidates Joe Biden of Delaware, Hillary Clinton of New York, Chris Dodd of Connecticut and Barack Obama of Illinois. All four had said they opposed Mukasey's nomination.

[ksimons]

86. maybe he was confused and was chanting for Tyra Banks, not tyrants and banks

it's an honest mistake, really

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

87. ...and Dino ate shit.

Again.

:woohoo:

[TankLV]

97. Good for him! Too bad muasswipe didn't CROAK on the spot...

one can only wish...

[slackmaster]

104. Sounds like he was going for the John Wilkes Booth drama thing

:nuke: