Arrested terrorist says gang hoped to get away

[cosmicone]

Source: Times of India

NEW DELHI: The gang of terrorists who wreaked mayhem in Mumbai for three days were made to believe by their Lashkar bosses that they were not
being sent on a suicide mission and that they would be coming back alive.

In a sensational disclosure made by Ajmal, the jihadi nabbed alive by Mumbai cops, the group had planned to sail out on Thursday. Their recruiters had even charted out the return route for them and stored it on the GPS device which they had used to navigate their way to the Mumbai shoreline.

This suggests that the terrorists were willing to undertake a mission which they knew would be very risky, but not necessarily suicidal.

Sources said that the bait of safe return must have been used by the recruiters to convince the wavering among the group to join the audacious plot against Mumbai.


Read more: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Arrested_terrorist_says_gang_hoped_to_get_away/articleshow/3771598.cms

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There is no doubt in any Indian's mind that these attacks were sanctioned by the Pakistani ISI and military who use terrorits groups as fronts for their nefarious activities.

This attack was carried out with a specific objective of gaining publicity and western sympathy to internationalize the Kashmir issue which Pakistan is treaty-bound to keep bilateral.

Several attempts have been made by Pakistan to internationalize the Kashmir issue and this one is probably the most odious.

Pakistan should not be rewarded for this by internationalizing this and, on the contrary, penalized by refusal of aid until Pakistan cuts its military spending and downsizes its intelligence arm while making the remainders transparent to the world.

Pakistan is not just a sponsor of terrorism but a full-fledged terrorist state.

[JI7]

1. fuck him and the rest of the assholes who went along

yeah, they thought they would just be able to murder other people without getting hurt themselves. poor guys were misled, they were told only others would be killed.

fucking assholes. every single one of them.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. The recruitment reminds me of Blackwater somehow

and those recruited remind me of mercenaries from any place in the world.

[mithnanthy]

51. I agree....

...sure smells like Blackwater.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. If this is the case,

then one cannot say that the attacks were the work of religious fanatics intent upon suicide. Sounds more and more like something Pakistan is doing. Wish the US would back the Sufis in the region, as suggested in this article: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Faith-and-Ecstasy.html

[panader0]

7. What if Benazir Bhutto had not been killed?

What a loss.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. Sufis were great supporters of Bhutto

and they are a sect that believes in having secular rather than religious states. See this article for more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Faith-and-Ecstasy.html

[MadMaddie]

15. Her death had to be planned and I hate to say it

Condi and * did nothing to help her survive. It's almost as if they wanted it to happen so they could keep their pact with the former Pakistani leader.

[madrchsod]

19. they set her up.....

[EFerrari]

61. Precisely. She wasn't squeaky clean, either, but BushCo did not want her. n/t

[Hatalles]

25. I don't see what would have been different...

Her husband is President right now.

[JI7]

38. her husband is no Benazir and neither is her son

i knew things would get worse when she was killed.

i'm still angry at her for exposing herself the way she did which allowed them to easily kill her.

[MadMaddie]

58. She asked for more security and the the local police and military

turned her down. They were probably given a directive not to provide more security.

Condi should have pushed US power to push the country to provide more security....curiously Condi did nothing.

[JI7]

67. i'm talking about her sticking her head up there

even just holding a large rally is risky itself even if you try to get security. but she knew she had no security and still exposed herself.

[MadMaddie]

69. Yes, I agree that that was a huge mistake.

The people that took her out would have found another way though. She was too much of a threat to the military power.

[spindrifter]

4. I ran across a report that there was a decapitated body

found on the vessel that the terrorists were on, suggesting that someone was not totally down with the plan.

[pitohui]

5. interesting, i wonder if there were leaks, india was checking for "pirate" ships lately

i am very much afraid that your editorial remarks "these attacks were sanctioned by pakistani isi and..." so forth are thoughts that have also crossed my mind

our so-called ally has pretty much outraged the world over the years, everything from providing safe haven to bin laden and taliban to repeated acts of terror on india, supposedly the pakistan gov't knows nothing of this and it is all "rogues" but what of that rogue who was planning to supply afghanistan with nuclear secrets?

scary days

[H2O Man]

6. "scary days"

Things are spinning out of control, and becoming more violent. It's a strange and scary time.

[spindrifter]

12. Their Coast Guard gave them

a warning of possible activity on 11-19. It is pretty clear that the commandos have not been given adequate material and intelligence--were not given floor plans of the Taj, for example, before they entered. Not using night vision goggles--regardless of their negative aspects, some should have had them. The commandos were not even called in for 9 hours.

[Ex Lurker]

30. it's a huge country

with a hodgepodge of military, police, and intelligence services, none of whom seem to be coordinated with one another.

[balantz]

8. Has it been proven yet who is really behind the massacre?

How on earth would this be good publicity for Pakistan's Kashmir cause? That just doesn't make any sense.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. No one appears to have claimed responsibility

at least not any "known" players like al Qaeda. And the reason behind the attacks has not been explained either.

[balantz]

13. Well, I'm sure a reason will be provided.

Whether it will be the truth or not we can't be sure. It's not like the world hasn't been lied to before.

[Hannah Bell]

43. I already know the reason. To get someone into war...or the next best thing.

[Chulanowa]

47. I thought it was a group called the Deccan Mujahadin?

Or something to that effect. Some group claimed credit like, five hours after all this started.

[tkmorris]

50. Anyone can, and does, claim credit

Doesn't mean a bloody thing.

[TomInTib]

16. My thoughts, as well.

Unless they simply wanted to shed some International light on the Kashmir situation.

But they sure picked a bizarre way to go about it.

[Ediacara]

24. No kidding

"Hey, let's equip a band of murderous zealots that kill civilians and target nationals of allied states, that will totally get the international community sympathetic to our side of a border dispute!"

Absolutely ridiculous....

[Taverner]

10. Qui Bono?

Who benefits?

[pitohui]

14. who benefited from the attack on the twin towers? sometimes it's just about doing harm

it is clear to me that this is intended as a direct strike on the economic and tourist base of india -- in other words, it's logical to look to an enemy that might resent india's recent success

[smiley]

17. Who benefited from the attacks on the twin towers?

hmmm, let me think about that one.

On second thought you probably wouldn't like my answer.

[pocoloco]

18. "who benefited from the attack on the twin towers?"

Are you serious?

[peacetalksforall]

35. If the reason behind the attack becomes a claim that al Queda did it and it is used to advance

to further level of terrorist fear cries and if a new Homeland Security dictum is announced (or worse) - you can guess who is behind it.

[balantz]

37. And an excuse to further the aims of the corporations. n/t

[Taverner]

56. Well the Twin Towers, Bin Laden definitely benefitted

At least according to his crazy plan - every thing's happening just as he planned, unfortunately.

[bemildred]

20. I don't believe it.

And anyway it is nothing, being willing to die is what matters, not any sops you give to possible survival.

[Malidictus Maximus]

21. Question about torture

Assuming that inflicting physical and or psychological pain on the captured person led to the revelation of more information, should the Indian government utilize such techniques on this person?
I mean I have serious problems believing that most of the poor fucks in Gitmo are anything other than guys doing pretty much what a lot of guys in that area do (and have done since Alexander the Great), which is shoot and blow up anyone trying to take over, be they British, Russian or American. OTOH someone captured alive who has traveled all the way to another country to kill a bunch of tourists, how many other progressives (and on a vast majority of issues, from the environment to unions to separation of church and state to homelessness and racial injustice I find myself pretty much aligned with people described as 'progressives' (or "Fucking Communists" by some family members) think this S.O.B. should get the rack?
I don't know, reading this article causes a conflict between my instinctive dislike of torture (both for the lack of useful information it almost always results in and an inherent distrust of the State, any State) and the desire to see this prick die painfully shortly after divulging everything he knows.

[Ex Lurker]

34. I wouldn't be averse to

smacking someone around a bit to save lives in a crisis situation. The problem is that it starts us down a path that no civilized person should want to go. I don't have a good answer.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. As you say, it doesn't result in useful information

just whatever the victim (and I'm using that to mean the person you're torturing - by torturing you transform them from criminal to victim) thinks will get the torture to stop at that moment.

So really, it would be about satisfying your personal blood lust. And no, that isn't a decent excuse. You degrade yourself, provide your opponents with martyrs, and give the next generation of terrorists proof that you're actually a thug who has no more right to claim to be 'the law' than they do.

[cosmicone]

63. There is no evidence of torture here. n/t

[Hatalles]

22. I don't see how a terrorist attack gains western sympathy for the Kashmir issue...

... in fact, it probably does the opposite. Pakistan has absolutely nothing to gain here. Relations between the two countries were getting much better.

Terrorists wanting to provoke a full-scale war in the region, however, have everything to gain.

[tclambert]

29. You may have hit it there. Some people DO want war.

Pakistan's version of neo-cons. During the Cuban missile crisis, Kennedy had to tiptoe around the war hawks in the military and in his own administration who actually wanted to start a nuclear war with the Soviets. General Ripper and General Turgidson in Dr. Strangelove were based on real people.

[Ex Lurker]

31. Pakistan's new leader has been saying conciliatory things lately

including renouncing the first-use of nuclear weapons. I wouldn't put it past elements of his own government doing this to derail any movement toward detente.

[tclambert]

36. One ambitious general, even a colonel, would be enough.

Recruit a few squads of especially gung-ho India haters, provoke a crisis, and maybe a new military junta takes over.

[Oak2004]

57. The ISI is essentially a rogue agency

The Pakistan government has at best marginal control over them, and they're ultra hard liners. It is perfectly plausible that the ISI has a hand in this. They are after all, the original creators and financiers of the Taliban, and are closely tied to Al Qaeda.

And yeah, they'd like nothing more than a war.

[Ediacara]

23. Wait... so because one person was *from* Pakistan, it proves that Pakistan sanctioned the attack?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tclambert]

32. But Pakistan has The Bomb.

And this is how Al Qaeda can get hold of nukes. They win an election, either in Pakistan or a piece of the former Pakistan.

I remember Marshal Tito. At least he kept a lid on the ethnic cleansing.

[regnaD kciN]

48. That's the same rationale...

...as saying that, because 9/11 was carried out by a group of renegade Saudis whose initial goal was to overthrow the Saudi monarchy, that said Saudi monarchy is responsible for 9/11 because "the attackers were Saudis!" Yet you hear that rationale, time and again, especially from those on the left.

I think it's basically another corollary of the "all Muslims are evil" gambit. Can't say it outright, have to find ways to couch it, however illogical.

[cosmicone]

64. Except in this case, Pakistan DOES envy India's rise and

is always behind terrorist acts in India. Laskkar e Toiba and Jaish e Mohammad are fronts for ISI who get training, funding and arms from the ISI.

Saudi royals don't go on training terrorists.

[Ediacara]

68. Always?

I bet you think the ISI blew up the Islamabad Marriott too...

[Warpy]

27. it's sure as hell not Al Qaeda!

They would have used truck bombs and simply leveled all the targets.

These kids were patsies, probably recruited by some faction within Pakistani intelligence {sic}.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

28. No doubt there is no doubt. But I'd like actual evidence.

[tclambert]

33. Would you settle for Colin Powell presenting some cartoon drawings?

[Hannah Bell]

44. maybe a letter on yellow cake.

[happychatter]

60. The news is saying they HAVE solid evidence of ISI logistical support

but I'm listening to to a government official stating that it is entirely possible that elements in the ISI WERE, indeed involved. he is promising to bring them to justice

wow, just wow

but this DOES, validate my suspicion that if elements in the ISI were involved, they did so without sanction of the elected, civilian government

edited to add: if this IS true, then Pakistan is most definitely, the first Nuclear Armed, FAILED STATE

bad... it's all bad

[KakistocracyHater]

39. hope they hook him up to lie detector

machine & ask questions really carefully, life is NOT 24, & I think his biological responses would give him away, he wouldn't have to answer, just feel it & those waves on that machine would show it.

[George II]

40. How can you say this? What justification do you have?

"There is no doubt in any Indian's mind that these attacks were sanctioned by the Pakistani ISI and military who use terrorits groups as fronts for their nefarious activities."

[balantz]

41. My thoughts too. n/t

[Dogmudgeon]

45. Sounds like agitation for (the dark side of) *Hindutva*

The bodies aren't even cold and the OP is calling for a new Indo-Pak war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindutva">Hindutva (in this sense) is hard-ass Hindu religious nationalism. Pakistan is afflicted with similar groups espousing Islam. Two groups of hotheads nursing 800-year-old grudges, with nuclear weapons.

Of course, Hindus and Muslims (and all others) trying to sincerely maintain their faiths have a mortal fear of this kind of hatred. But hatred is a disease and it destroys the healthy flesh along with the sick.

A holocaust like an Indo-Pak nuclear war would cause a similar level of death and misery to World War Two in the space of a week.

--p!

[cosmicone]

66. Except that "hindutwa" people are very few and are not

widely supported by a vast majority of hindus. Furthermore, hindus have suffered centuries of oppression at the hands of muslims. Every hindu idol in India has been defaced by muslims, hindu women raped, men killed. Despite this, India remains a secular and multi-religious democracy which had two muslims elected as presidents.

Pakistan as a country needs to be crushed and balkanized into smaller countries to prevent any aspirations other than educational and economic.

Pakistan is a tinpot little country with no economy to speak of and is envious of India's rise to power. Pakistan survives on handouts from the US and China, the latter using it as a pawn.

[George II]

70. I think you're just a bitter, hateful person trying to stir up a holocaust.

[cosmicone]

71. I think you have blinders on and are willing to forget

reality because it interferes with your perception of utopia.

[George II]

72. Thanks...you just proved my point.

[cosmicone]

65. Because of history

Several prior bombings were carried out by the ISI and ISI fronts in India.

The mastermind of the 1993 serial blasts in Mumbai which killed >250 people sits in Karachi and Pakistan refuses to hand him over to India. His name is Daoud (Dawood) Ibrahim. Google it.

[Hannah Bell]

42. "were made to believe by their Lashkar bosses that they were not being sent on a suicide mission"

smells spooky.

[JCMach1]

46. I disagree with the interpretation... There is most likely a definite British connection

Mumbai's chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh said two "British-born Pakistanis" were among eight gunmen captured alive during bloody shoot-outs with soldiers.

The Daily Telegraph has also learnt that the terrorists monitored international reaction to the attacks on British newspaper websites and on Arabic websites popular in the north of England... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/3534784/Mumbai-attacks-Are-they-British.html

There is another interesting piece of information here:

One commando leader described how suspicions of a British link had been raised when investigators examined BlackBerry mobile phones seized from some of the captured Islamic extremists, which they had used to monitor the internet.

General Noble Thamburaj, head of India's southern command, told the Telegraph: "There was a lot of content from the English media, not just in London but the Urdu and Arabic sites that are very strong in the north of England.

"We have some analysis started on this and we will pass it on to Scotland Yard."

Gen Thamburaj said at least five of the terrorists had used BlackBerrys to monitor British websites.

The use of BlackBerrys by the terrorists to monitor international reaction to the atrocities – and to check on the police response – provided further evidence of the highly organised and sophisticated nature of the attacks.

Two of the killers were members of staff at the Taj Mahal hotel, according to one report, and two others were staying there as guests, enabling them to plan the attack and gain an edge over security forces by familiarising themselves with the layout of the labyrinthine Edwardian building...

[regnaD kciN]

49. I hate to ask the obvious question, but who runs "The Times of India"...

While I don't know the paper, if it's any business connection to "The Times of London" (i.e. a Murdoch publication), I might be inclined to be skeptical about their account.

[muriel_volestrangler]

53. No, it's an independent Indian company

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times_Group

Interestingly, they've just bought a radio station in the UK - Virgin Radio, founded (though not owned for some time, I think) by Richard Branson.

[ohio2007]

54. only one way out and getting captured is not it. How soon til the two captured aquire "cult" status?

Are things really over ?

[happychatter]

59. That the ISI would support this w/full Paki Govt Sanction is simply incredible

purpose, ostensibly to "internationalize the Kasmir issue?"

that's a conspiracy theory to rally public support for a full scale attack on Pakistan

it's pure, and obvious, bullshit

[ohio2007]

62. oh, do these guys deserve hot meals ?

http://broadband.indiatimes.com/toishowvideo/3773580.cms