Todays press conf:John Roberts debunks Guardsman that saw Bush

[papau]

Well, I think we all knew someone like the above was way over due to come forward….but on a first reading <containing my laughter>, this Blood in the water - a desparate GOP and outright lies - will the media have fun with this?

You find a fellow that says Bush was at every drill - bad witness preparation since Bush said he missed most of the drills and pay records do not show attendance.

And then you have - tooth work & read mag's while he waited for dentist - yesterday's laugh - being replaced by today's unit's flight safety officer saying of the non-flying Bush -"Every Drill" --

LOL

"He was very dedicated to what he was doing in the Guard. He showed up on time and he left at the end of the day.'' - gee where are those sign in sheets that we somehow can not find?

And now John Roberts debunked the guy - pointed out to McClellan that his testimony is about dates where his records showed him NOT to be there

"White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Friday that the White House was not making any effort to try to locate people who might have served with Bush. He also accused reporters of trying to raise new lines of questioning, beyond whether Bush served in Alabama."


LOL

original story this morning!

Ex-Guardsman Says Bush Served in Ala.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-3744759,00.html

A retired Alabama Air National Guard officer said Friday that he remembers George W. Bush showing up for duty in Alabama in 1972, reading safety magazines and flight manuals in an office as he performed his weekend obligations.
``I saw him each drill period,'' retired Lt. Col. John ``Bill'' Calhoun said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press from Daytona Beach, Fla., where he is preparing to watch this weekend's big NASCAR race.
``He was very aggressive about doing his duty there. He never complained about it. ... He was very dedicated to what he was doing in the Guard. He showed up on time and he left at the end of the day.''
Calhoun, whose name was supplied to the AP by a Republican close to Bush, is the first member of the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group to recall Bush distinctly at the Alabama base in the period of 1972-1973. He was the unit's flight safety officer.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/administration/whbriefing/
Credibility Gulch By Dan Froomkin Special to washingtonpost.com
Friday, February 13, 2004; 10:53 AM


• 54 percent think he intentionally exaggerated that evidence.

• 52 percent think he is "honest and trustworthy" -- down from a high of 71 percent.

• 48 percent think the war in Iraq was worth fighting -- down from a of 70 percent, and down 8 points in less than a month.

[markus]

1. McClellan...accused reporters of trying to raise new lines of questioning

How dare they?

Hey, Scott, as soon as I find my clue-by-four, I'll explain to ya what reporters are supposed to do.

After spending the last several years cowering on their knees for fear you could freeze them out and cost them their jobs, these reportesr suddenly rediscovered they have backbones.

So have a lot of Democrats.

That must just scare the hell out of people like you, doesn't it?

Let us aflict the comfortable and confort the afflicted.

[fob]

2. Clue-by-four! Brilliant!

I will be borrowing that for a long time!

[papau]

3. Fraud: The Strategy Behind The Bush Lies And Why The Media Didn’t Tell You

http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/04/02/int04010.html

February 13, 2004

Paul Waldman, Author of "Fraud: The Strategy Behind The Bush Lies And Why The Media Didn’t Tell You," Talks with BuzzFlash about Why Bush is a Complete and Irredeemable "Fraud."

[Journeyman]

12. Most definitely! "Clue-by-four". . .

an insult and a pun rolled into one. Gotta love it!

[The Magistrate]

4. Excellent, Mr. Papau

This thing is not going to go away....

It has genuine impact because it speaks to the abuse of privilege, which is greatly resented by the people of our country, who do not much mind that some people get a better break at the start, but despise sharp practice, particularly by those with a head start already. This will affect many who are accustomed to vote for rightist candidates, because they feel selfless in doing so, construing the act as putting the good of their country and their faith above their personal material interests.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[papau]

14. Interesting Transcript - seems Nat'l Guard Records may not be released!

Interesting Transcript - seems Nat'l Guard Records may not be released! John Roberts gets a medal for today!

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/02/20040213-4.html

Q Can I ask you a question, Scott? I just want to be absolutely clear on something here. The records that you released earlier this week on the President's Guard service state that he did not perform any Guard service in the third quarter of 1972. That's correct?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, you have the records in front of you, and they state the dates on which he was paid. And you are paid for the days on which you serve.

Q So they state that between April 16th of 1972 and October 28th of 1972 he did no Guard duty.

MR. McCLELLAN: We've been through these issues, John, and we've provided you with the documents that show his service.

Q And do you believe that's correct, that he did no duty between April 16th and October 28th?

MR. McCLELLAN: John, I don't know why we need to go through this again. This issue we've been through earlier this week.

Q Well, the reason I bring up the question is that John Calhoun, who claims he was the person in charge of making sure that President Bush reported for duty at the 187th Tactical Recon Group, says that he saw the President several times on the base between May and October of 1972, yet there is no record of him being there, in terms of what you released earlier this week.

MR. McCLELLAN: I don't speak for him. You would have to talk to Mr. Calhoun. I do not know him.

Q We did talk to Mr. Calhoun, and Mr. Calhoun said that he saw the President several times between May and October of 1972.

MR. McCLELLAN: And like I've said --

Q So I was just wondering, can you explain that discrepancy?

MR. McCLELLAN: And like I've said, the President doesn't recall the specific dates on which he performed his duties. He does remember serving both in Alabama and in Texas. During that entire period, he was a member of the Texas Air National Guard.

Q But the records that you released do recall quite specifically the days that the President served on. There's no record of his being there --

MR. McCLELLAN: Actually, these are National Guard records that document the President did serve during that time period. And that was an issue that was raised earlier this week.

Q Right. But the records clearly recall that he did no Guard duty between April 16th and October 28th. Yet, Mr. Calhoun says he saw him on the base at the 187th between May and October of '72. So there's a discrepancy here. I'm wondering if you can explain it?

MR. McCLELLAN: John, again, we've provided you with the records and the facts are in the records that we have.

Q A good point. Could the records be incomplete?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry?

Q Could the records be incomplete?

MR. McCLELLAN: Direct that question to the National Guard. These are the personnel records that we've received.

Q Scott, have you been through the entire personnel file now? And have you released everything you're going to release?

MR. McCLELLAN: Well, like I said, that if there is additional information that comes to our attention that is relevant to the issue, we will certainly provide you with that information. That's a commitment that we've made.

Q But have you seen the entire file? That sounds like a reasonable question.

MR. McCLELLAN: Have I seen the entire file? I don't know the answer to that question at this point, because there is a possibility -- we have expected to receive additional documents from the National Guard. I think we just very recently received some additional documents, but I'm not sure if any of those documents are new. We're going to take a look at those. We'll take a look at those, and if there's new information relevant to the issue, then we will certainly provide you with that information.

Q Saturday, during the taping of the Tim Russert program, "Meet the Press," the President said something at the end -- many thought it was a very confident statement, at the least -- that he would not lose this election. That was Saturday. At 12:35 p.m. today, Friday, does he still feel that same way in the midst of all of this controversy, polls showing that he's at his lowest rating ever?

MR. McCLELLAN: Absolutely. You know, one, that's not something that he pays great attention to. What he's focused on is the decisions that we are making on behalf of the American people. And the decisions that the President is making are the right decisions for the American people. They are decisions that are making our country more secure and more prosperous and they are decisions that are leading to a safer and better world.

Q But a follow up. Apparently, he does feel that this is a problem, the AWOL story, the alleged AWOL story, and some of the other --

MR. McCLELLAN: Which has now been documented to be false.

Q Well, there are still some discrepancies. But apparently he's fighting these stories, so that's saying that the President realizes there is a problem for this campaign, correct?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry? That there is --

Q I made my point clear.

MR. McCLELLAN: That may be your interpretation. This President is confident that the decisions that we are making are the right policies for the American people, and he is confident that the American people are supportive of the decisions that we are making.

Q Putting out paper, you're giving out paper --

MR. McCLELLAN: Look, April --

Q -- you're directing us to The Boston Globe article --

MR. McCLELLAN: Let me finish the question there that you asked. There is going to be plenty of time to talk about the campaign. Right now this President is going to remain focused on the great challenges that we are working to meet. And we are meeting them in a number of different ways, but there is more to do.

But this President is acting decisively to make America more secure, to make America more prosperous, to make America a more compassionate place. And he's acting to make the world a safer and better place.

Q Well, then why would you give us this information, then, if he's not worried about it?

MR. McCLELLAN: I'm sorry?

Q Why would you give us this information, direct us to The Boston Globe story today? Why would you give us --

MR. McCLELLAN: Why would you ask those questions?

Q A follow up on that. You mentioned the campaign. The Bush-Cheney campaign has released its first campaign ad -- albeit on the Internet. Does this mean now that the President's reelection campaign has officially begun? And does this also mean that he believes John Kerry will be his opponent?

MR. McCLELLAN: I think you need to direct those questions to the campaign. The White House and the President remain focused on the American people's priorities.

Q Scott, did the President authorize the campaign attack --

MR. McCLELLAN: Again, you can direct campaign questions to the campaign.

Q Scott, I'm asking about the President.

MR. McCLELLAN: If they're related to the campaign, you can direct those questions to the campaign. I'm sure that they'll be glad to get you those answers.

Q Do you think the campaign would have done that without authorization from the President?

MR. McCLELLAN: Mark, again, I said you can direct those questions to the campaign.

Q Aren't you all one? Aren't you --

[papau]

25. OK - I read the above incorrectly and was wrong - he did release 400 pages

duplicates and scrubbed and medical records do not leave the room and nothing covering the period he was AWOL -

but he did release a paper dump!

[GrndLkNatv]

5. Bush's Guard Duty.

The real question I have for the entire Democratic Party is this:

It's obvious Bush is lying and what is more scary about this whole situation and sits right in front of everyone's nose is the fact that he volunteered to go to Vietnam as a pilot and they, the United States Air Force said "NO" because he wasn't qualified to go. Now just how stupid do you have to be not to be qualified to go to Vietnam as a pilot, even when you are currently flying in the national guard, unless you really weren't? If I were John Kerry and the DNC, I would ask Bush to tell me during one of the debates who his wingman was while he was flying there in the national guard. The blank look on his face ought to show all americans the truth. Any of the last 20 presidents could have qualified for this duty, even the current president's father was qualified and flew in WWII. So if he is too dumb to qualify to fly in Vietnam, how could he ever be qualified to be the President of The United States of America? Why didn't they take the current president? Was he a danger to all the other boys flying for us? Is he not a danger to this country and it's constitution?

[frankly_fedup2]

8. Bush as a danger?

Yeah, he is a danger alright . . . a danger to himself as well. I mean the man cannot even eat a pretzel without almost killing himself.

Also, I was too young to remember any details about the Vietnam war except my dad watched the news everynight, and that was before remote controls, so I was the remote control, and I had to sit at the television to turn to the channels (all 3 of them) that he or my mom wanted to watch, because there was only 1 T.V. in the house, and the whole family watched the same T.V. at the same time. {I was the youngest in my family so this was my assigned duty). We always did this after eating dinner together at one table and actually talking about our lives. Anyway, I do remember the live reports and Dan Rather out in the field. I guess my dad always watched CBS at that time.

Anyway, didn't mean to go on so long, just missing those days as far as my life was concerned.

Anyway, just exactly how did one qualify to get into the National Guard? Was one drafted and then the military decided where that person would go? Did men go ahead and join the National Guard knowing that would keep them off the battlefield? Just exactly how did anyone who was drafted avoid going into warfare?

Looking forward to anyone who was there and their replies.
:hi:

[cally]

10. Welcome to DU franklyfedup_2

Well, I've read that the National Guard at that time was seen as a way to avoid Viet Nam. Bush got a low score and still jumped over 100's of more qualified applicants.

[cally]

9. Welcome to DU GmdLkNatv

I agree that he was unqualified to go to Viet Nam is pretty scary. I hope that gets reported next. Finally, the press is reporting the news. :bounce:

[happyslug]

15. Bush flew F-102 NOT fighter bombers

Bush flew the F-102 Interceptor, which was designed to intercept Soviet Bombers when they attacked the US. It was NOT a dog fighter fighter nor a Fighter Bomber (Like the F-4 which was used in Vietnam).

While a Pilot can switch between planes it is NOT a simple in one and out another. Each plane has its own characteristics and you must QUALIFY on that plane before you can fly it in Combat.

Given he was an F-102 pilot he would have had to qualify on some other plane before he could go to Vietnam, an unlikely situation and even if done would cost thousand of Dollars to do.

On top of this the F-102 was one of the few planes in the Air force at that time that could NOT be used as a fighter bomber. The F-102 (and its sister plane the F-106) were designed for maximun performance intercepting incoming bombers. The North Vietnam did not use aircraft to any great extent in South Vietnam and in North Vietnam we were using bombers and fighter bombers not interceptors.

Now the US Air Force did send one group of F-106s to Vietnam but these never saw any action and were withdrawn once it was determined that the Vietnamese had no intention of launching air attacks on the South.

One last comment the F-106 was the product improved and faster version of the F-102. Different enough that people qualified on the F-102 had to re-qualified on the F-106 as if it was a different plane.

Information on F-102:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/fighter/f102.htm

Information on the F-106:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/fighter/f106a.htm

[LiberalFighter]

17. Then what was the point of training on F-102's?

If they weren't using F-102's in Vietnam then what was bush* going to do if they had approved "his request" to be sent over?

[ThoughtCriminal]

22. F-102s in Vietnam

The airforce did have some F-102's in the region until 1969. A few just in case the NVA decided to attack south. Others flew escort for B-52s. These were USAF, not NG units though.

[denverbill]

6. Why would he be reading flight manuals when he was grounded?

[LiberalFighter]

18. Exactly!!

``He sat in my office most of the time - he would read,'' Calhoun said. ``He had your training manuals from your aircraft he was flying. He'd study those some. He'd read safety magazines, which is a common thing for pilots.''

Also, was his "performing equivalent training" being stashed away in an office?

What was Calhoun's assignment on the base?

[nannygoat]

19. * probably had a Playboy magazine stuck in the middle of his training

manual (or maybe that Goat book he loves so much)...

Edited to add: Of course, I know he wasn't really there!

[Kool Kitty]

21. "...reading flight manuals..."

To me, that's the dead giveaway that this is all horseshit, because I don't really believe that he can read.

[Bandit]

7. Remember what brought Nixon down

It wasn't all the lying or the break-in it was the cover-up What are we witnessing today?

[nolabels]

11. When they circle around to with a lie to cover another lie and the........

circles just keep getting smaller what does that mean?

[kskiska]

13. Reading safety magazines and flight manuals?

He can't even read a newspaper beyond a headline, and his briefing papers have to fit on 3 x 5 card.

[papau]

16. you have to kill time waiting for that dentist!

:-)

[LiberalFighter]

20. Where was his mouth?

But the dental disclosure only raised more questions that the conspiracy-minded could sink their teeth into: If the White House doctor reviewed Bush's medical records from his Guard period, that means such records exist -- so why wasn't the White House releasing them? The document proves that Bush submitted to the dentist's drill in Alabama, but what about military drills? Bush had said he returned to Texas before January 1973 -- so what was his mouth still doing in Alabama?

[yellowcanine]

23. Well Scotty ain't that too bad? (new lines of questioning)

"He (Scotty)also accused reporters of trying to raise new lines of questioning, beyond whether Bush served in Alabama."


Like what, Scotty? You mean why DID Lt. Bush not take a required flight physical when it meant he was grounded, thus thwarting his plans to make a career of flying jet aircraft?

Or, just why was he doing community service in Houston - the only time in his entire life he has done anything like that?

[pinniped]

24. SF Chronicle publised a good story earlier...

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/13/MNGUQ509PN1.DTL

Bush left no traces in his tour of duty
Years of searching for Guard cohorts produces no results

David Barstow, New York Times

Montgomery, Ala. -- Inside the Alabama Air National Guard, the search is on for someone, anyone, who recalls encountering 1st Lt. George W. Bush in 1972.

snip----

In response to the Globe's article, Bush's election campaign appealed for members of the Alabama Air National Guard to come forward and vouch for his service, and a group of Vietnam veterans in Alabama offered a $1,000 reward for anyone with proof that Bush served. But in the years since, no one has come forward.

----snip

Maybe he served his time quietly and didn't want to bother anyone.