Bush keeps France waiting over D-Day commemoration

[kskiska]

The official invitation has been lying in his in-tray for several months, but President George W. Bush has failed to let the French know whether he will attend the 60th anniversary of the D-Day landings in June.

France's president, Jacques Chirac, is expecting at least 15 heads of state to be present at the commemorations marking the decisive Allied offensive against the Germans in Normandy on June 5, 6 and 7.

British guests will include the Queen, the Prince of Wales and Tony Blair, all of whom were officially invited during President Chirac's state visit to London in November last year.

The German chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, has also accepted the invitation to attend one of the most prestigious events on the international calendar this year. It is likely to be the last time that veterans will be able to mark a significant anniversary of the landings in any great number.

However, in the words of one Paris-based diplomat, Mr Bush is "making the French sweat". Relations between France and America have been strained since the French vehemently opposed US-Anglo military action against Saddam Hussein a year ago.

more…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/02/15/wdday15.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/02/15/ixworld.html

[ixion]

1. And again, the Mad Chimp disgraces us on the world stage

Geez. It will take YEARS for us to repair the diplomatic damage caused by this administration.

:argh:

[I Lean Left]

45. I disagree

I think it is fairly universally understood that these countries (Europe, even Cuba) don't hate Americans, they hate Bush. Biggest step to repair ties is to remove Bush from the equation. Almost immediately he will have repaired relations.

[tabasco]

2. Bush continues to dishonor his office.

With his petty and arrogant ways. It almost seems like he is trying to disgrace the USA.

[Buns_of_Fire]

17. He doesn't have to TRY...

With the booshes, it appears to come naturally. :grr:

[bahrbearian]

3. The french should recind the invite .

[NeoConsSuck]

48. I Agree !!

[lastknowngood]

4. Perhaps the French should invite Al Gore the rightfully elected

prez. That should get their knickers in a twist.

[Grins]

41. Clever!

How about Kerry?
Or Clark?
Or Daniel Inouye, he can wear his Medal of Honor!
Or George McGovern?

Now....how about Saxby Chambliss? (I’m joking!)

The AWOL s.o.b. will probably send his father – out of shame for himself. And, I don’t believe for a second that Chimpy is making the French sweat. I think he’s too embarrassed to be seen there with real veterans after his lying about his service. He’ll send a stand-in. Rove’s call.

[ConcernedCanuk]

5. No big deal - the USA was a wee bit late for the war itself !!

.
.

so

History repeats itself 60 years later ?

why not

they're doing a "Vietnam-syndrome" thing again after 30 years

are we surprised ? :shrug:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

11. Go easy on your bull about WWII, okay?

[Violet_Crumble]

28. What bull?

That the US joined in late? That's not bull at all...


Violet...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

42. Canuk and others in this thread have conveniently forgotten...

...the tremendous amount of arms and supplies sent to the UK and other nations to include the old Soviet Union, well prior to the official entry of the United States into WWII in December 1941. In fact, U. S. participation in WWII began in September 1940 as follows:
=========================================================

Unofficially, the U. S. had been shipping supplies and armaments to the UK and other countries well before the Lend Lease Act formalized the activity. For instance, on September 2, 1940, the U.S. transferred 50 destroyers to the UK in exchange for the use of certain military bases.

Destroyers for Bases Agreement, 2 September 1940
<http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq59-24.htm>

Excerpt:

"Furthermore, in view of the above and in view of the desire of the United States to acquire additional air and naval bases in the Caribbean and in British Guiana, and without endeavouring to place a monetary or commercial value upon the many tangible and intangible rights and properties involved, His Majesty's Government will make available to the United States for immediate establishment and use naval and air bases and facilities for entrance thereto and the operation and protection thereof, on the eastern side of the Bahamas, the southern coast of Jamaica, the western coast of St. Lucia, the west coast of Trinidad in the Gulf of Paria, in the island of Antigua and in British Guiana within fifty miles of Georgetown, in exchange for naval and military equipment and material which the United States Government will transfer to His Majesty's Government."

As to the actual ships transferred to the UK:

Destroyers Transferred to Great Britain as a Result of the Destroyers for Bases Agreement
<http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq59-24a.htm>
========================================================

The Lend Lease Act was officially begun in March 1941, nine months before the attack by Japan on Pearl Harbor.

Lend Lease Act, 11 March 1941
<http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq59-23.htm>

The Lend Lease Act allowed the U. S. to send arms and supplies to any nation involved in the war against the Axis Powers, Germany, Italy, and Japan.

World War II: Wartime Alliance
<http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/soviet.exhibit/wartime.html>

"Despite deep-seated mistrust and hostility between the Soviet Union and the Western democracies, Nazi Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941 created an instant alliance between the Soviets and the two greatest powers in what the Soviet leaders had long called the "imperialist camp": Britain and the United States. Three months after the invasion, the United States extended assistance to the Soviet Union through its Lend-Lease Act of March 1941. Before September 1941, trade between the United States and the Soviet Union had been conducted primarily through the Soviet Buying Commission in the United States."
========================================================

In summary, the U. S. was indeed participating in WWII at least fifteen months prior to the official date of the so-called timeline posted in this thread. Without the additional 50 destroyers needed desperately by the UK for convoy duty and other anti-submarine activities, the UK would have been in even more serious difficulties prior to the official entry of the U. S. in late 1941.

Why did the U. S. fail to make their support official by declaring war in September 1940, or earlier? The primary answer is that FDR was also fighting a tremendous amount of support for Nazi Germany among a number of the most elite families in the U. S. Among those elites were the names of Prescott Bush, Herbert Walker, Henry Ford, Joseph Kennedy, and others who were very prominent in their support of the Nazi government. That support for the Nazi government manifested itself in the resistance of Congress to make any move to declare war on the Axis Powers. A secondary obstacle was the desire of a majority of the American people to remain isolated from the affairs of Europe and Asia.

Something was needed to galvanize the support of the American people for war against Germany and Japan. That "something" came about with the attack on Pearl Harbor by Japan. A recent book which I have personally read and endorse, indicates that Pearl Harbor was not a surprise to U. S. Naval Intelligence or to the highest levels of the U. S. government:

Day of Deceit
<http://www.pearlharbor41.com/1.htm>

Excerpt:

"After decades of Freedom of Information Act requests, Robert B. Stinnett has gathered the long-hidden evidence that shatters every shibboleth of Pearl Harbor. It shows that not only was the attack expected, it was deliberately provoked through an eight-step program devised by the Navy. Whereas previous investigators have claimed that our government did not crack Japan's military codes before December 7, 1941, Stinnett offers cable after cable of decryptions. He proves that a Japanese spy on the island transmitted information--including a map of bombing targets--beginning on August 21, and that government intelligence knew all about it. He reveals that Admiral Kimmel was prevented from conducting a routine training exercise at the eleventh hour that would have uncovered the location of the oncoming Japanese fleet. And contrary to previous claims, he shows that the Japanese fleet did not maintain radio silence as it approached Hawaii. Its many coded cables were intercepted and decoded by American cryptographers in Stations on Hawaii and in Seattle."

[Media_Lies_Daily]

50. Odd...there seems to be no reply to my post. Wonder why that is?

[Violet_Crumble]

56. Maybe cause we live in different time zones?

And some of us aren't glued to our comps?

You claimed that another poster pointing out the obvious fact that the US entered the war several years after it started in 1939 was bull. It wasn't, and any history of WWII will quickly prove you wrong. The original claim wasn't that the US unoffically sent arms and supplies to Britain (btw, they didn't supply them for free, which would have been nice under the circumstances), which is what you now seem to be trying to argue. Isn't that switching the goalposts just a bit?

Violet...

[CHIMO]

58. When Did

You enter the war?

No one is questioning the contributions?
Facts are facts.

Canadians were over there dying while their Country was on sugar rations etc..
No one is adding up the pros and cons it is just the facts mam...

[ConcernedCanuk]

32. hmmmmm - I am RARELY ever accused of "bull" ! - hmmmmm - so . .

.
.

I'll try to be brief

I almost wasn't going to reply, but maybe you don't understand what I was referring to.
I didn't really explain it very well in my post.

Rather than wander on in my own words I'll use sources.
I am assuming your reference to "my bull about WWII" is in response to my words
"a wee bit late for the war itself".

OK re WWII I quote:

September 10, 1939
Canada enters WWII and declares war on Germany.

December 1941
Prime Minister William Lyon Mackenzie King agrees to accept 4,000 German POWs from North Africa.

December 7, 1941
Japan attacks Pearl Harbor, Hawaii; the United States declares war on Japan and enters WW II.

SOURCE

That would mean that Canada entered WWII 2 years before the USA did.


Re WW1 (The Great War) I quote:

TIME LINE FOR CANADA

1914

July 29 ~ Britain warns Canada of deteriorating situation in Europe.
Aug 02 ~ Canada offers Britain troops for overseas service.
Aug 05 ~ Britain declares war. Canada is automatically at war.
Aug 06 ~ Britain accepts Canada's offer of troops.
Aug 19 ~ The first volunteers begin to arrive at Valcartier camp.
Sept 04 ~ Approximately 32,000 men have assembled at Valcartier.
Oct 03 ~ 1st contingent Canadian Expeditionary Force sails for England.
Oct 14 ~ 1st contingent C.E.F. arrives in England.
Dec 21 ~ Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry arrives in France.
The first Canadian unit committed to battle in the Great War.

SOURCE

TIME LINE FOR USA

OK

- I had some difficulty in obtaining information on the USA involvement in World War 1,
broken links and so on.

I will summarize what I found, the link will follow.
The facts I put here are verbatim without comment:

1917

03 February USA severs diplomatic relations with Germany

06 April USA declares war on Germany

25 June WESTERN FRONT First American fighting contingent arrives in France

31 July - 10 November WESTERN FRONT Third Battle of Ypres (Passchendaele) begins



That would mean that Canada entered WWI almost 3 years before the USA did.

.........................................................................

Well, I was surprised to realize how much sooner Canada got into these wars compared to the USA.
I honestly didn't think they were THAT far apart.

so my comment about the USA being "late" was certainly not bull.

But I had to check.

I've been wrong before.


PS: Thank-you Violet and eeyore - :toast:

apparently you "guys" were posting while I was researching

you may wish to check out some of these links yourself !

The LAST link(of course) is the most thorough on the time line.

[Isere]

36. Thanks for the timeline

It is always helpful to remember our history. Although the US fought very bravely indeed at the Normandy beaches, we were slow to come to the aid of the Europeans in WWII.

I hope Bush doesn't go to Normandy for the D-Day ceremonies. He is persona non grata in France for very good reasons and it would be best to just wait until we have a real elected president to represent us. When a Democrat is elected we can repair the damage.

[ConcernedCanuk]

51. You're welcome -

.
.

It was a bit of a refresher course for myself as well !

[Joe Momma]

55. your timeline is interesting

world wars won by the united states: 2

world wars won by canada: 0

at least that is what my history teacher told me.

don't get me wrong. canada made contributions to the war effort. but lets face it, it isn't the big red une that we all remember.

who was the canadian marshall? eisenhower? patton? is it necessary to lay criticism on the usa for entering the war later? i don't see what this accomplishes. you cannot hope to compare the affect of each of these countries on the outcome of these wars. the only reason i can see is to take swipes at the united states. swipe at our idiot president all you want, but please ease up on the country bashing. we have had plenty of idiot leaders in the past, and will probably have them again. but the greatness of our country far outweighs its shortcomings. there are a lot of good, informed people here, working to repair some of the damage done by bush.

[CHIMO]

59. Who Is

Deciding the win?
No one questions that WWII may not have been ended the way it was without the energies of the US of A, and in fact Churchill may not have won if the support was not there.

I think that all would agree that it would not have ended in the defeat of the right and a stand off with the left.

If one would like to know the road to Canadian independence it came from
our fighting forces being an independent force in battle.
It didn't come from a tea party but from success on the battle field!

[Joe Momma]

25. first of all bush is an ass

secondly, i don't understand your criticism of the u.s.? i don't believe i would hold up canada as a shining example of world hope.

[eeyore]

27. yes, bush is an ass, but....

i think we should all be looking to canada for a little hope. in the time i've spent there in the past few years i was pleasantly surprised by the people. the canadians i have met all seemed to have a much more informed and broader world view than americans. they seem truly afraid of the jingoism that passes for patriotism in the good ole usa. i think they are on to something, and would be proud to be a canadian right now.

[Joe Momma]

53. canada is canada...

i have nothing against canada. we make a few jokes about them, they make a few jokes about us. i know the usa, and canada is no usa.

canadians more informed? that is an opinion you are entitled to. patriotism in the usa is misguided at times. i am proud to be american, and would not want to be canadian. kinda remind me of the french sometimes.

[alarimer]

46. When was the last time

Canada launched an illegal war on the basis of a lie? To my knowledge NEVER. I don't think the US is right now a "shining example of world hope".

[Joe Momma]

54. ok

the u.s. has launched illegal wars on many occasions. canada does not have the ability to launch any war, let alone an illegal one. i love to bash my country among my countrymen. i don't like to see it bashed by those from the frozen wasteland to our north.

sorry, not impressed with canada.

[Spider Jerusalem]

57. Actually, if the two world wars are your guideposts...

then one should probably look to some of the European nations as a shining example of "world hope", as you put it.

In the First World War, France and Britain sent an entire generation of their young men to hold the line against the German Empire in the bloody and brutal trench warfare of 1914-1917, collectively suffering 2.3 MILLION casualties. (US casualties were, by contrast, 116,000.) The Royal Navy considerably drained the strength of the German military machine through their blockade of German ports, and, after their strategic voctory at Jutland, kept the German Imperial High Seas Fleet bottled up and rendered it a non-factor.

In the Second World War, one only has to look at the magnificent stand of Winston Churchill and the British people against the evils of Nazi Germany, fighting alone against Hitler from June, 1940, when France collapsed, to June of 1941, when Hitler invaded Russia. In fact, it's likely that the strong resistance offered by the RAF in the Battle of Britain was what led Hitler to shift focus to a new Eastern front, in a move that would prove to be his undoing. One can make a strong case from this for Churchill and Britain as saviours of Western civilisation. And, of course, Hitler broke his military machine by throwing it against the wall of Soviet resistance; the two most important turning points of the war in Europe are the UK's victory in the Battle of Britain and the Soviet victory at Stalingrad. The contributions of the US to the European war, while no doubt important and significant, are not appreciably of the same magnitude.

[Virginian]

49. We were NOT late for D-Day.

This is a commemoration of D-DAY! The day that the Allied forces invaded Normandy. Go back and read up on this one.
The Longest Day
The Bedford Boys
The battle at the beginning of Finding Private Ryan was the invasion of Normandy.

The US was FULLY involved in this invasion, the turning point in the European theatre. The Big Red One, First Division and the 29th Division invading Omaha Beach, Gold Beach, Juneau Beach and others that I can't remember right now.

This was General Eisenhower's command, and the one day that made him famous enough to run for president.
The US lost many, many good men on that one day. I knew some of the men who survived. I used to listen to them swap war stories. We were there, and we were NOT late.

[Manix]

6. Another sign that the jackass is unfit for office. Childish!

nt

[Dimsdale]

7. Do us a favor Chimpy, don't attend.

The man's an embarrassment.

[MIMStigator]

19. Correct. His presence would dishonor our nation. STAY AWAY CHIMP.

n/t

[dflprincess]

8. Bush* is such an ass

This has nothing to do with our fractured relationship with France. This is a way of showing the sacrifices made during WWII and especially during the D-Day invasion will not be forgotton. It's a slap in the face to every veteran - and not just the WWII vets. He's proving how mean and petty he is and how little the costs of any war mean to him.

[Dimsdale]

10. Exactly.

Well said.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. Maybe he doesn't want to embarrass himself again

Like he did last time he went to Normandy for the D-Day commemoration? On that occasion, there was a small group of American Vets, who had fought in the D-Day Invasion, who were attending the ceremony. Everything was staged and choreographed by the Bu$h handlers. Who would stand where and what would happen when. The Vets were told to stand in a particular spot and that when Bu$h finished speaking he was going to walk past them and that he was going to stop and shake their hands and pay his respects to them. Well, when the time came for Bu$h to stop and speak to the vets he forgot or didn't care. He just walked right past them. My friend, one of the vets who was there told me, "He didn't even look us in the eye". Too say the least, this gentleman can't stand Bu$h since that day.

[yellowcanine]

12. Bush doesn't like to be reminded of real sacrifice

because it shames him to compare it to his miserable war record.

[madrchsod]

13. there was a celebration of the 200th yr

of the signing of the Louisiana purchase in 2003 but because of the strained relations that bush caused there were no invitations to the French nation and its leaders to join our celebrations. if we had a decent man in the whitehouse we would have had a grand celebration across america, but no-the french stood up for what they believed and the boy king became angry....

[aquart]

14. What mother teaches her son to behave like this?

Barbara Bush is a potty-mouth harridan with a dreadful batch of ill-mannered children.

Really. Would YOUR mother let you get away with this?

(I know I'd be getting a call.)

[IndianaGreen]

15. Bush should parachute over Normandy

as the 82nd Airborne and 101st Airborne did on D-Day.

[KeepItReal]

43. No, put him in one of those unpowered gliders they used...

Full of men and equipment...

Let's see him earn his wings that way.

[Desperadoe]

16. Perhaps someone will explain to President Chirac

that the only reason Mr. Bush has not responded is because he is not really sure if he will still be President come June 5,6 and 7.

The way things have been going this week he may not be available for Opening Day of the 2004 MLB season.

What a scumbag to, once again, dishonor our war veterans. He is a disgraceful embarrassment to the United States and it's citizens.

[SWPAdem]

18. Hope he doesn't attend

I'm taking my dad back to Normandy and NEITHER of us wants to see Chimpy's punk a$$ there.

[metisnation]

21. Thank a Vet!

Not some fascist office squatter than stands for everything our veterans have fought against!

[SWPAdem]

26. Trust me...

My dad and I are two vets that WILL turn their backs if the squatter approaches.

[MIMStigator]

20. Article title is stupid. They hope he doesn't show his ugly monkey face.

nt

[markses]

22. Why should the French be "sweating"

Bush will only look like a vindictive fool if he doesn't attend, once again using veterans for his own ridiculous and fruitless extremist foreign policy, and the ceremonies will commence as planned. What's the problem?

[neverforget]

23. What a dishonorable, callous, miserable human being Bush is.

To hold a grudge against a nation that is THANKFUL for the invasion that liberated them is so juvenile. He is there to honor the soldiers, sailors and airmen that fought there, not to play politics. But this is the Rove White House where politics comes first and policy second. God I hope they lose in November because I don't know if I can handle another 4 years of this juvenile tripe.
:argh: :grr: :argh: :grr: :argh: :grr: :argh: :grr: :argh: :grr: :argh: :grr: :argh: :grr: :argh: :grr: :argh: :grr: :argh: :grr: :argh: :grr: :argh: :grr: :argh: :grr: :argh:

[burrowowl]

24. Bu$hie doesn't need to be there

only the veterans. Who will be duly honored.
Bu$h has better things to do: raise campaign money on our tax dollar, lie on TV and rdio, etc.
Bsides, do Murkins really remember or give a damn.
D-Day is always a big day in France. Muricans only remember the movie the Longest Day and how many have seen it? And who do they remember? The actors?

[SoCalDem]

29. They should withdraw the damned invitation

and invite Clinton & Carter instead.. We all know that the little twit has no interest in going.. He already walked through the cemetary, and looked totally bored the last time he went..

We all know that he would much rather be out there fundraising and visiting military bases..

Can you imagine the protests?? He's not upp for that.. and I cannot see Chirac going binkers to stop them :)

[Gemini Cat]

30. Fine. Don't go.

Have a snit and a snivel and stay the hell away from Normandy. I personally don't want that imbecile to go and embarrass and dishonour Americans anymore than he already has.
His very AWOL presence there would be a slap in the face of all those who were there for those days.
Damn him.

:dem:

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[xxqqqzme]

33. squatter probably hasn't decided

which costume 2 wear. He will want 2 B outfitted 4 the occasion.

[montana_hazeleyes]

34. How embarrassing!

I feel he* has the mind of a silly,mean,petulant little mama's boy.

[Malva Zebrina]

35. cheap, small, vindictive and childish

on the other hand, we would be spared more photo ops of the sleazy slime strutting through the Normandy graveyard.

It would certainly bring an outcry and more focus on his abandoning his own service during wartimes if he tried that photo op.

[LynneSin]

37. Clinton should go with the dem nominee in tow

:D

[Vitruvius]

38. The Bu$h family is probably still angry that the Allies won WWII;

Bu$h's grandfather Prescott made a TON of money in cahoots with the Nazis; and would have made much more if the Nazis had won.

Among Prescott Bu$h's investments: the Silesian Steel Company -- which had low costs and high profits because the Nazis provided free slave labor from Auschwitz. Prescott Bu$h and his Nazi friends made a killing -- in both senses of the word.

The Bu$hes are famous for carrying their grudges forever; it would be out-of-character if Dubya were not angry that D-Day was the beginning of the end for the Nazis and for Prescott's money-making genocidal Nazi rackets.

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. The original cheap labor republicans

that is all that gang really cares about.

[burrowowl]

52. Right on! eom

[Flagg]

40. stay in crawford AWOL, nobody wants you here

NOBODY

[HuckleB]

44. Have any veterans groups commented on this?

[dawn]

47. What a disgrace!

At times like this, I am embarrassed to be an American. Dumbya shames this country.