Sudan expels US aid group over bibles

[IndianaGreen]

Source: Al Arabiya

Saturday, 31 January 2009

Group failed to justify reason for thousands of bibles

Sudan expels US aid group over bibles

An American aid group has been thrown out of Sudan's Darfur region after officials found thousands of Arabic-language bibles in its office, state media reported on Saturday.

Sudanese authorities told the offical Suna news agency they found 3,400 copies of Christianity's sacred book in the office run by water charity Thirst No More in North Darfur, a region that is almost entirely Muslim.

Officials told Suna they had decided to expel the Texas-based group "for its violation to the Voluntary Work Act, the Country Agreement and the regulations on registration of organizations in Sudan."

Regulations dictate all aid groups have to give details of their activities to the Sudan government's Humanitarian Aid Commission (HAC) and are not allowed to start new projects without state approval.

Suna said Thirst No More was supposed to be in the war-torn region supplying drinking water. It had "failed to provide justification" for its ownership of so many bibles, North Darfur's HAC commissioner Osman Hussein Abdalla told the agency.

Read more: http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/01/31/65407.html

---

These scum won't miss an opportunity to proselytize their bankrupt theology to the unsuspecting.

[AnnieBW]

1. Feed now

proselytize later. Fucking a**holes. They're only hurting the people that they're supposed to be helping.

[Left Coast2020]

2. Not surprised they are from Texas.

[webDude]

9. Left Coast, it is NEVER okay, and tired, to flippantly generalize...

by saying, "not suprised they are from (insert your state here)." Or how about, "not suprised they are (insert favorite skin color or group you don't like here)." There are perfectly decent and hard working people, even progressive people, living in Texas and throughout the US, even in the Left Coast. I am amazed from time to time that this supposedly tolerant, progressive group will have someone that posts something like you have about Texas, New Jersey, whatever. It is just not right.

On the main topic, I too am befuddled about why they would do this, I am sure they knew the rules to be there. They're lucky they still have their heads.

[Ocracoker16]

38. Christian groups that do outreach should not include evangelism

This is just one example of many Christian ministries that is more interested in proselytizing those they are trying to help. I am Christian and I work with the homeless. I have never been instructed to talk to them about God's saving power or however you put it. I think that this kind of outreach should not happen if there is an attempt to convert people wrapped inside of the stated mission. Not all Christians groups focus on creating new believers when they offer their aid to the needy. Groups like this one are making a bad name for Christians that reach out to others and don't expect something in return.

[IndianaGreen]

42. Thank you for your work with the homeless, and for your post

Isn't 'outreach' a form of proselytizing? There are groups that are engaged in humanitarian work, even when they themselves might be affiliated with a denomination, but there is no religious component to what they do.

[madeline_con]

43. It's why they do the outreach.

They just use the charity or "mission" as a way to gain entry.

[Hugabear]

3. Maybe they plan to end the genocide by spreading the love of baby jebus

:sarcasm:

[angrycarpenter]

4. They know for a fact that anyone over there with a bible

is a target. Why would they even consider handing them out to people who would then go on to be beaten or killed. Show your Christian love by telling the truth and helping people in a real way.

[Chulanowa]

10. Not exactly accurate...

They're in North Sudan. You're thinking oh Southern Sudan, in Darfour. The genocide there is just that, genocide, not religiocide (or whatever the term is) If you're Arab, you're good. If you're black, watch your ass.

[madeline_con]

44. I thought it was billed as a Muslim vs Christian thing.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. No, in Darfur, both the Janjaweed and the people they attack are Muslim

n/t

[Judi Lynn]

5. It would be great to know who the people are behind this group. From the article:

Thirst No More's website describes its work in Darfur as focused on repairing and drilling water wells and makes no mention of evangelism or other faith-based work.

The vast majority of aid groups in Darfur, including ones with religious foundations, voluntarily sign up to a Red Cross code of conduct that says aid should not be used "to further a particular political or religious standpoint".

Freedom of religion is enshrined in Sudan's constitution, created after a 2005 peace deal ended two decades of war between the mainly Christian and animist south and the mostly Muslim north, which includes Darfur, however apostasy is banned in the Darfur region.

Their "Thirst No More.org" site is not operational, but they have another one, "Thirst No More.com:"
http://www.thirstnomore.com/

It claims their pastor, Jay A. Dess is a former vice-president with a major food company, and a minister with a large evangelical church in Omaha.

Dess is also with "9th-Inning Ministry:"

The 9th-Inning Ministry is organized for the sole purpose of glorifying and honoring God that people will come to have a relationship with Jesus Christ.

The 9th Inning Ministry is an evangelical ministry for community involvement in Omaha during the College World Series, and is supported by many organizations and local ministries for the purpose that people may know Christ. Volunteers and athletes in these areas of ministry are exhibiting God's love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

http://www.9th-inningministry.org/whoweare/index.htm

More:

Jay A. Dess402-934-7475 or [e-mail]

Jay A. Dess, past executive vice president and general manager with a major food company, and an ordained and licensed pastor at Westside Church, Omaha for 10 years, has had a passion for sports throughout his life.He earned a BBA in banking and finance, post graduate work in behavior science, and an MBA in marketing and finance.Also qualified as a CMA (certified managerial accountant)

Jay and his wife, Jeri, founded 9th Inning Ministry and Thirst No More Ministries offering events, clinics, and free "Thirst No More" bottled water around the College World Series and nationally as an evangelistic ministry since 1999.Jay's major strengths are leadership and organizing with integrity to evangelism opportunities and ministries.Jay also currently serves the Baptist Association as Ministries Evangelist Consultant for Special Events nationally.

Jay loves all sports.He played sports in high school and college and has coached associational baseball, basketball and soccer for over 10 years.Jay's desire to serve FCA is a "calling" to Omaha, "Stewarding Sports in Omaha".He is committed to present the Gospel message of Jesus Christ to athletes and coaches and those they influence in Greater Omaha.Jay is married to Jeri for 32 years, and has a son, Grant, and a daughter-in-law, Chelle, serving Christ and living in Dallas, Texas.

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Dess_Jay_45286842.aspx

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jay Dess, Chief Operating Officer and Vice President Partner Relations – Mr. Dess brings a strong communication, strategic positioning, and marketing background with the company. He served as an Executive Vice President and Vice President of Sales and Marketing for Con Agra Foods, Inc, leading efforts in the areas of strategic acquisitions, merging business units, reorganizing units to achieve profitability and directing the introduction of Healthy Choice products into the national foodservice market. In addition, Mr. Dess has served in various senior management positions with Fortune 500 companies, namely, Procter & Gamble and United Foods, Inc. Mr. Dess earned his Bachelor of Business Administration in Banking and Finance from North Texas State University, and his Masters of Business Administration in Marketing and Finance from Memphis State University. He is an ordained Pastor and has served in ministry roles as Executive Pastor at Omaha’s Westside Church, Director for Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and continues to serve as Innovative Ministry Consultant for the Kansas Nebraska Convention of Southern Baptists, as well as Corporate Chaplain for Jasper Stone Partners.

http://jasperstonepartners.com/aboutus.asp

~~~~~~~~~~~
How many ministers do you know who have been immersed in bidness, anyway? Seems a little far afield for a religion which professes to follow the teachings of someone who said And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven and also, "My kingdom is not of this world."

[xxqqqzme]

12. My first thought as well.

From whence cometh the money?

[struggle4progress]

41. From the website:

"Thirst No More™ started in 1999 as 9th Inning Ministry™. Mr. Jay A. Dess ... had a passion to get God’s Word out to people through a message on bottled water ... The extraordinary success of the 9th Inning MinistryTM has led to the creation of the Thirst No MoreTM web site, and an opportunity for organizations throughout the world to have similar successful ministry outreach opportunities with a tested program. We offer a wide variety of evangelistic materials, along with Thirst No MoreTM bottled water, to faith-based organizations around the country. We are here to help you, your church, or your organization hold a great God-honoring evangelistic event in your community ..."

http://www.thirstnomore.com/index.cfm?p=oh

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sultana]

7. Dumbasses, played w/ fire.

Sudan is 75% Muslim and 5% Christian.

Darfur needs security, help and food not religion.

:crazy:

[Oregone]

8. WWKDD (What would King David do?)

Come on you wussy Christians. Open your Old Testament, grab a sword, march right back in, and inseminate the women when finished massacring the men and boys. These new-age Abrahamic religions just don't have the nuts they used to.

[scarletwoman]

11. LOL!

[Sanctified]

13. WTF, Scum???

Please this group was supplying drinking water in an area that our Government fails to declare Genocide, yeah they were giving out Bibles but guess what as Christians that's what they do, help people and spread the Gospel. Maybe you should go dig wells in Darfur since you think those who are doing it are scum.

[ThomCat]

14. Are you sure that they really were digging wells?

It seems to be far too common that missionary work takes up so much of the budget that very little actual work gets done. Talk to Peace Corps volunteers about crossing paths with Religious groups who are out there supposedly providing clean drinking water, medicine and other help in places where it is desperately needed. You'll hear a lot of stories about Photo Ops, and a lot about short-term help being tied to conversion, but very little about help being given for free.

If you really want to help, give your money to an aid agency that doesn't have an ulterior motive. Give your money to a group whose only purpose is to provide aid and relief efforts. Keep the religion out of it.

[tkmorris]

15. You really think group was digging wells?

I don't. If they REALLY wanted to help anyone they'd have left the bibles at home, knowing it endangered that mission to bring them. They didn't do that, and there's a reason they didn't. Their stated humanitarian purpose for being there was nothing more than a cover, a sham front to cover their true purpose.

Edited because the voices in my head told me to.

[ohio2007]

18. Digging wells in Sudan is also the Chinese policy.

It is no concern to the Chinese buisness machine how the local govts. treat their own exploited population. As long as the oil continues to flow east, everybody is one big happy family.
:sarcasm:
Chinese colonialism in africa doesn't exploit the water resources at this time as it will only lead to water wars in the near future imo

[Sultana]

16. Their number one goal was to convert some people by using aid

It's shady esp. since the inhabitants are Muslims, it doesn't look good at all.

[moggie]

17. They're risking people's lives

What do you think happens to a wavering Muslim caught with a bible in a place like Darfur?

[ohio2007]

19. Sudanese women arrested for wearing tightpants ( well there ya go ! a connection )

Some of the more than 20 women were beaten

A Southern Sudan Cabinet minister said on Tuesday that more than 20 women were arrested and beaten for allegedly dressing inappropriately under a new edict against "bad behavior."

"They were wearing tight pants, and this destabilizes security," deputy police chief Riman Leej.



The police crackdown on young women wearing
trousers or short skirts follows an order from the commissioner of Juba county


snip

Most of the women, said to be in their late teens and 20s, were rounded up as they left Catholic mass in Juba on Sunday, Kimbo said. Others were picked up in market places.

"We saw around 30 girls crammed in trucks like cattle," said local resident Nouk Dwani.

The order bans "all bad behaviors, activities and imported illicit cultures," according to a copy seen by AFP, signed by Juba's commissioner, Albert Pitia Redantore.

Inappropriate behavior may include wearing tight trousers, short skirts or skimpy tops considered "Western" attire.

The order, dated October 2, said that it aimed to "preserve the cultural values, dignity and achievements of the people of southern Sudan, checking out the intrusion of foreign cultures into our societies, for the sake of bringing up good generation."
Those deemed in contravention of the order are liable to three months imprisonment. Those convicted for a second time face another three-month sentence and a fine of 600 Sudanese pounds ($300).
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/10/08/57889.html

Maybe they should teach the girls a lesson like those being schooled in the Swat valley ?
;)


ooops


time to lock the thread due to


conflicting interests

The order, dated October 2, said that it aimed to "preserve the cultural values, dignity and achievements of the people of southern Sudan, checking out the intrusion of foreign cultures into our societies,...

http://ikhwanweb.com/Article.asp?ID=19036&LevelID=3&SectionID=81


;)
LOL
some cultures are deemed "more foreign" then others in certain parts of the world


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1077861/Muslim-fanatic-prisoners-programmed-using-controversial-techniques-cure-beliefs.html

While some are being repressed in other parts of the world

[madeline_con]

45. I hate the implications of these kinds of "moral edicts".

They basically send the message to every male that they won't be able to control themselves if confronted by the least bit of female flesh. It really says more about men being rapist pigs than women being promiscuous. One of my peeves with certain brands of religion.

[Hugabear]

20. Yes. ALL missionaries are scum.

Missionary work presumes that your religion is superior to your target group's religion. They tell these people that they will go to hell if they don't convert, that their old religion is wrong. Many times, the aid they provide is contingent upon conversion. So yes, they can go fuck themselves.

[MellowDem]

21. This is all Sudan's fault...

if their government provided for their own people, they wouldn't feel compelled to let in aid groups. And they could have civil rights so that it's not a crime to carry Bibles. They're the fucking scum. You are missing the entire point.

[IndianaGreen]

22. The Bible is CRAP--it has brought the world nothing but suffering and destruction

That's the whole point!

[MellowDem]

23. That's the point you get from this article?

So I guess the Koran is crap as well, and the Torah, but I guess you're just feeling a rather anti-Christian form of bigotry today. The Bible is a book. It has not done nothing but bring suffering and destruction. You are looking at things way too simplistically. Very black and white. You fit right in with the religious zealots that give religions a bad name. And you are giving yourself a bad name.

[IndianaGreen]

24. What has Prop 8 done for you, or to you?

Just wondering...

[MellowDem]

32. What's it have to do with the thread?

I disagreed with Prop 8 and work towards getting it overturned, which I am confident it will be eventually. But how does that excuse your blanket assumptions and hatred? There are many Christians who use the Bible as a source of inspiration to fight things like Prop. 8. Like I said, you need to think more critically and examine gray areas.

[WriteDown]

25. Bologna....

You could argue the same for any religion. Just because some choose to misuse it, it doesn't mean its crap. Maybe you should try saying that in some place like oh....Sudan, but replace The Bible with The Koran and see what happens.

*edited for spelling.

[IndianaGreen]

26. “Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”.

Or better than Diderot there is this from the anarchist Bakunin:

Jehovah, who of all the good gods adored by men was certainly the most jealous, the most vain, the most ferocious, the most unjust, the most bloodthirsty, the most despotic, and the most hostile to human dignity and liberty - Jehovah had just created Adam and Eve, to satisfy we know not what caprice; no doubt to while away his time, which must weigh heavy on his hands in his eternal egoistic solitude, or that he might have some new slaves. He generously placed at their disposal the whole earth, with all its fruits and animals, and set but a single limit to this complete enjoyment. He expressly forbade them from touching the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He wished, therefore, that man, destitute of all understanding of himself, should remain an eternal beast, ever on all-fours before the eternal God, his creator and his master. But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge.

We know what followed. The good God, whose foresight, which is one of the divine faculties, should have warned him of what would happen, flew into a terrible and ridiculous rage; he cursed Satan, man, and the world created by himself, striking himself so to speak in his own creation, as children do when they get angry; and, not content with smiting our ancestors themselves, he cursed them in all the generations to come, innocent of the crime committed by their forefathers.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/bakunin/works/godstate/ch01.htm

[WriteDown]

28. Ooookay....

Weird and not much of a counterpoint. Guess you're a Satan worshiper, that rascally eternal rebel.

[IndianaGreen]

30. There is no Satan either!

We are on our own!

[WriteDown]

31. If you say so...

everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[ima_sinnic]

36. good one! I like that.

I will have to read some Bakunin. I wonder whether he also points out that "God" was a rapist, "impregnating" Mary without her knowledge.

[IndianaGreen]

39. And offered her an abortion had she refused to carry pregnancy to term

Yep, that's correct!

[Deja Q]

27. And Islam and agnostics have brought nothing but peace.

:sarcasm:


Dude, don't generalize. I know as it's easy and fun to do, but like guns, the religion doesn't kill people -- people do. Two of religion's goals was to compel people to conform to a set of rules and do to good things with each other. Obviously that's an epic fail, especially the latter, regardless of religion and in as many cases, those who don't believe are guilty as well. Why? Not because of their beliefs but because they're militant little jackasses that would spend more time blaming than helping show the good religion (or lack thereof) COULD do.

The ultimate truism is simple: It's in the action and not the word.

[Rage for Order]

46. LOL.....

I'm thinking you're one, or a combination, of three things: 12 years old, deluded, or a douchebag. I'll try to figure it all out while you're on ignore

[moggie]

34. ALL Sudan's fault?

Notice that most of the aid groups are doing fine, and haven't been thrown out, because unlike this bunch of idiots they're sensitive to the local conditions. If your goal of being in Darfur is to help people, and you behave in a manner which gets you thrown out, you've failed.

[sakabatou]

29. ::facepalm::

[anonymous171]

33. This thread makes me laugh and cry simultaneously. nt

[treestar]

35. More proof religious extremists are all the same

The only way they can be assured their religion will continue to have adherents is to hide the fact there are other religions.

[ima_sinnic]

37. how gratifying for the xtians. now they are truly "persecuted."

without "persecution," these fundy nutbags are unfulfilled and miserable.

[IndianaGreen]

40. Remember the two women 'aid' workers in Afghanistan back in 2001?

They were arrested and prosecuted by Taleban accused of proselytizing. They denied the charges, claiming they were just aid workers. After our military came to Afghanistan, and a special team was send to free them, they came back to US bragging as to how they taught the Bible to Afghan children behind everyone's back. These Xtian proselytizers are pathological liars and a threat to the world's safety.

[MountainLaurel]

49. Frankly, I think that's what they were looking for

Nothing gets fundie churchgoers to open their wallets like reports of martyrdom from missionaries.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. Those fundamentalist types have more zeal than brains sometimes

Mainstream Christian groups no longer even try to proselytize in Islamic countries, because they know that conversion to Christianity can mark a person for death. They simply provide aid (like tents, blankets, and food after the earthquakes in the mountains of Pakistan a few years ago)and let it go at that.