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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 09:01 AM
Original message
Strike by 24,000 refinery workers averted for now
Source: AP

HOUSTON (AP) - A strike by some 24,000 refinery workers was averted, at least for now, as both sides agreed to extend negotiations for at least 24 hours.

Workers at refineries near New Orleans, Houston and as far away as Billings, Mont., will show up for scheduled shifts Monday, though negotiators will be back at the table on Sunday.

"We have made progress in that there was no strike at midnight," said Lynne Baker, a spokeswoman for the United Steelworkers, which represents more than 30,000 oil workers nationwide. "But there are still issues that need to be worked out and notice of a strike could be given at any time if that progress stalls."


In this Jan. 31, 2007 file photo, a Valero service station is seen in San Antonio, Wednesday. Valero Energy Corp. said Tuesday, Jan. 27, 2009, it lost $3.28 billion in the fourth quarter as it absorbed a huge one-time valuation charge and a slowing economy kept profit margins tight. (AP Photo/Eric Gay, file)


The union agreed to a rolling 24-hour extension, which allows the union to give the required one-day notice to strike.


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20090201/D962Q29G0.html
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. On the heels of record profits year "No Raise for You - Peasant"
Good News - I work in SF Bay Area Refineries and the operators are under the same agreement.

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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Refiners actually had a very bad 2008.
Edited on Sun Feb-01-09 09:26 AM by Lucky Luciano
Check a stock chart for Valero (VLO) or Tesoro (TSO) - you will see that they were getting hammered even when oil was going up. The reason was because the crack spreads (The difference between crude oil and refined products like gasoline or heating oil) went negative - that is right negative margins for most of the year. They were being crushed when oil was skyrocketing because gasoline did not get high enough for them to make money...and on the way down they were losing because it fell faster than the price of oil because of the demand destruction.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. The "Real World" is not ruled by stock prices
Most these companies not only refine crude oil but produce it too through drilling contracts.

This is called "Up-Stream" (production) and "Down-Stream" (refining)

While during a rise in crude cost, up-stream is making money hand over fist. and during falling crude prises down-stream is making it hand over fist.

Every Major Refining Company made record profits as in 2008 crude oil "Rose and Fell" by record amounts.

So in short - No!

STOCK PRICES DO NOT ACCURATELY DEFINE THE PROFITS OF OIL REFINERIES
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. With regard to up-stream, you are referring to companies
Edited on Sun Feb-01-09 01:46 PM by Lucky Luciano
different from the ones I mentioned who are refinery focused - such as XOM and CVX. Yes - they kicked ass. I was only speaking of refineries....and crack spreads were terrible all year, so refineries had it bad all year. Here is a chart of crack spreads from Jan 1, 2005 and note that in 2008, there was no summer driving season jump in the crack spreads - hence the profit and stock price declines for TSO and VLO while the vast majority of big oil companies such as anyone not primarily a refiner in the XLE (Energy ETF) and EPX (Exploration & Production Index) hd a serious kickass party time until the bubble burst in July:



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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. BULLSHIT ALERT.........Tessoro Boost Profits 5 Fold
Edited on Sun Feb-01-09 03:14 PM by FreakinDJ
Feels like Attack of the Freeper Trolls with all the BullShit Dis-information around here


Refiner Tesoro boosts profit five-fold



SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Tesoro Corp., looking back on rough market conditions for many independent refiners, said Wednesday that tight management of crude-oil purchases and production cuts at its refineries helped send its third-quarter profit sharply higher.

The big drop in crude prices from a record-high $147 a barrel in early July also gave a huge boost to refining margins as the quarter wore on, pushing them up 85% from a year ago.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/refiner-tesoro-posts-five-fold-profit/story.aspx?guid=%7B730DAE95-85AC-4A3C-9203-E019B8386A74%7D

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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. So, they boosted profits 5-fold from a crappy profit the prior year.


Notice the three quarters of negative earnings. EPS went to $1.63 from $0.38 in the same quarter last year...and you can see there were better quarters in the past. Yes, I do acknowledge that crack spreads have improved (though 4th quarter was terrible for the refiners with the negative margins in post #7) - they are going to make money again unless they are affected by a strike.


...and GO FUCK YOURSELF with calling me a freeper. I am providing proper information.

I am a trader so I know what I am talking about - this is the stuff I watch all the time. It is how I make my livelihood even though you totally disrespect me for it.

That said, I am here because I despise racists, close minded assholes, and bigots. I do believe in the right to try to become wealthy, but how dare you lump me with the freepers.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I work at Tessoro - I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT
Do you actually think anyone in their "Right Mind" is going to "Trust the Stock Market Traders"

"Trust the Stock Market Traders" - has become an oxymoron
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Hey asshole, I showed you a list of quarterly earnings numbers
Edited on Sun Feb-01-09 04:13 PM by Lucky Luciano
You telling me three straight quarters of losing money is big profits? The last quarter was the only profitable quarter in the last four. This is the report your own company made. They could be lying...but I doubt it. Usually the liars try to inflate profit reports.

VLO's earnings were half in 2008 of what they were in 2007....or are you going to make me get that screenshot up here as well?


...and I had a positive PnL this year of $12MM and was rewarded by being laid off because of other fucktards at my bank that lost money and cost me my bonus and job - but it is ok, I went on vacation, but I am now back looking to work with a friend of mine - his PnL in 2008 was $250MM - and he is likely not even going to get 4% of that (though his bank was not bailed out) - usually proprietary traders take down $10% of their PnL for bonus - which is fair - he is a winner....but it was a bad year to have a good year.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yes when you figure in the cost of new equipment
Edited on Sun Feb-01-09 04:25 PM by FreakinDJ
like 2 $Billion for a new coker that processes more caustic blends of crude, then I guess you could show a net loss.

They made tons of money

You're not going to get honest market analysis looking at the stupid computer screen
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. That $2B is not subtracted from earnings - it is not viewed as an expense.
It is viewed as something to be capitalized and depreciated every year. It does not subtract from earnings - only from free cash flow (Free cash flow is cash flow minus capital expenditures such as $2B for a new coker).

Hopefully we can get it back to being civil.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. In the article - this is also Bull Shit
Tesoro trimmed the volume of crude it ran through its refineries by about 32,000 barrels a day during the quarter,

All the refineries in the area are MAXed Out - above 95% utilization for the last month. There is not safety margin held in reserve in the figure. They are all prepared for a long protracted strike in which time they well blame the striking workers for increased gasoline prices.

Kinder Morgan - that is the company that controls the pipe line. They have been pumping fuel 24/7 for over 2 weeks now.

I hope you book mark this thread - because I won't be wrong. They are going to walk off the negotiating table, blame workers for the strike, and rape you at the pump.

1 problem - they have so much management that will step in and run the refinery, last time they did just that, management held "Utilization" at 97%
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I see refinery Utilization nubmers nationwide falling
I see 82% or so for the nation, though I do not have regional numbers. Interesting article below I pulled from Bloomberg.

By Robert Tuttle
Feb. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Gasoline, the worst energy investment
of 2008, is becoming this year’s hottest commodity as production
drops to a 17-year low and 24,000 U.S. refinery workers threaten
to strike.
Employees from Exxon Mobil Corp. to Royal Dutch Shell Plc
are ready to walk off the job should contract talks fail, after
negotiations were extended Jan. 31. Valero Energy Corp., the
biggest U.S. refiner, already idled as much as 30 percent of its
gasoline production capacity because of slowing demand.
ConocoPhillips, the second largest, says about 15 percent of its
refining capacity is off line.
A walkout may benefit refiners, helping them work off
inventories that are up 23 percent since Sept. 19, according to
Stephen Schork, president of the Schork Group, an oil consultant
in Villanova, Pennsylvania. At the same time, higher gasoline
prices would boost consumer costs as President Barack Obama
battles the worst slowdown since the Great Depression.
“A significant amount of refining capacity is now under
threat,” Schork said in a phone interview yesterday. “We’re
talking about a potential $1, $1.25 if you get a prolonged strike
that shuts in a considerable amount of gasoline production.”
Gasoline rallied 26 percent last month, the biggest gain on
the Reuters/Jefferies CRB index, to $1.2689 a gallon, the
equivalent of $1.867 a gallon at the pump. Prices tumbled 59
percent last year as a credit crises pushed the U.S., Europe and
Japan deeper into recession, cutting motor fuel demand.

Rising Prices

Gasoline futures may almost double to $2.50 as we approach
summer, Schork said. Prices may rise another 65 percent by May,
or 83 cents a gallon, to $2.10 a gallon, said Peter Beutel,
president of Cameron Hanover Inc., an energy consultant in New
Canaan, Connecticut.
The union for refinery workers and The Hague-based Shell,
which is representing the companies, extended talks on a new
contract after failing to meet their settlement deadline. The
deadline will be rolled over every 24 hours until a deal is
reached or the United Steelworkers terminates the contract and
gives strike notice. The union hasn’t picketed since 1980. The
contract was scheduled to expire at 12:01 a.m. Feb. 1.
The union is seeking higher wages, a cost-of-living
adjustment, and full medical, dental and vision-care benefits for
workers and retirees. Workers also want improvements in plant
safety practices after a March 2005 explosion at BP Plc’s
refinery in Texas City, Texas, killed 15 people and injured 170.

Lost Capacity

About 1.7 million barrels a day of capacity, or 8.7 percent
of the U.S. total, would be lost in a strike if the companies
shut refineries as threatened, according to data compiled by
Bloomberg News. Gasoline futures rose almost 10 percent last week
on the New York Mercantile Exchange on concern about a walkout.
BP, based in London, plans to close four refineries in
California, Texas, Ohio and Indiana in a strike. Valero will idle
plants in Tennessee and Delaware. Shell and Exxon Mobil plan to
keep operations running with contingency crews and managers.
Even before the strike threat, companies curtailed
operations after gasoline sold for less than crude oil in 55 of
66 days last quarter, meaning some lost money on every gallon
produced. In December, crude oil cost on average 85 cents a
barrel more than gasoline.
Refineries operated at 82.5 percent of capacity in the week
of Jan. 23, the lowest rate for this time of year since 1992,
according to the Energy Department in Washington.
Gasoline’s premium, called the crack spread, is likely to
widen to at least $20 a barrel by the spring in the U.S. from
$11.605 on Jan. 30, Beutel said. That increase would yield
$196,000 for a trader who sold $1 million of May Nymex crude oil
contracts and bought $1 million of May gasoline.

Maintenance Shutdowns

Maintenance shutdowns are also reducing supplies. U.S. East
Coast refineries are expected to cut gasoline output by 164,000
barrels a day next month, five times more than normal, according
to the Energy Department.
Valero, based in San Antonio, said Jan. 27 that average
operating rates for its refineries’ gasoline-making fluid
catalytic cracking units are running between 70 and 75 percent of
capacity to end losses that prevailed late last year.
“If the industry does not balance supply with demand, we
are going to have negative margins,” Valero Chief Executive
Officer William Klesse said on a Jan. 27 conference call.
Houston-based ConocoPhillips expects refinery use rates near
80 percent during the first quarter because of maintenance and
narrow margins for some plants. The company said its
Wilhelmshaven refinery in Germany will reduce production because
of deteriorating profitability.

Gasoline Demand

Falling gasoline demand is keeping prices in check.
Consumption, which declined in 2008 for the first time in 17
years, averaged 8.8 million barrels a day in the four weeks ended
Jan. 23, down 1.7 percent from a year earlier, Energy Department
data show.
Prices are “fighting a fundamentally very weak market that
has terrible demand dynamics,” Benjamin Dell, an analyst with
Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. in New York, said in a telephone
interview.
The decline in gasoline use has slowed, and sales will pick
up in the second half of the year as economies recover, Paul
Horsnell, head of commodities research at Barclays Capital in
London, said in a telephone interview. U.S. growth will be 2
percent in the fourth quarter, rebounding from a 3 percent
decline in the three months through March, economic forecasts
compiled by Bloomberg show.
“The overall demand profile does look better for the second
half of the year,” said Horsnell. “That has justified a move
away from these kind of negative” margins of last year.

Stimulus Bill

President Obama’s $819 billion economic stimulus bill,
currently moving through Congress, may encourage Americans to
drive more, said Andy Lipow, president of Houston-based Lipow Oil
Associates LLC and a former Goldman Sachs Group Inc. trader.
The average U.S. pump price, which typically lags behind
futures by four to eight weeks, increased 15 percent this year,
according to AAA, the largest U.S. motoring club. Prices fell
close to a 5-year low of $1.616 a gallon on Dec. 30, from a
record $4.114 in July. Crude oil settled at $41.68 a barrel on
the Nymex Jan. 30, down 6.5 percent this year.
“We see just a small increase in crude oil, if at all, but
we do see gasoline prices improving,” said James Cordier, money
manager at OptionSellers.com in Tampa, Florida.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. good. refineries are the most dangerous places in the world
and should only be worked on or at by qualified union workers . I know, my first husband was in the pipefitters union and it was during the reagan era when the OSHA standards were being toyed with. The chemical plant he was at exploded, and they had hired some non union workers to staff the place..needless to say my husband passed on and 12 other workers were horribly injured thanks to human error of non union personnel..
nuclear plants get a lot of safety attention, but mark my words, chemical plants are far more dangerous. you dont want anyone working on them except for qualified workers who have passed stringent tests.
even top management at chemical plants knows this. Unfortunately, the CEOs dont always care.

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Michigan-Arizona Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. So sorry Mari333
Very sad to hear about what happened to your husband & the others at that chemical plant. My husband worked in chemical plant's to & that was always my fear. What city was the chemical company in that your hubby worked at? I remember when the one in Wyandotte, Michigan exploded. Again so sorry to hear about your loss.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. it was in illinois
a small town about 70 miles from chicago. hugs
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. They continue to say "UNIONS" are outdated

Thank you for reminding me one of the best reasons to be "PROTECTED" in a union!

OS

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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
25. The news tonight said some comapnies would use scabs.
I wish I could remember which ones so I could boycott their products.
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. a strike like
this would cause gasoline prices to absolutely skyrocket
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. They have already sent gasoline prices up 12 cents a gallon in
NYMEX trading the last few days. See my chart in post #7 - It is a chart of crack spreads which measure the margins for refining gasoline from crude oil - crude has not moved much, but the crack spread just gapped up - meaning that gasoline prices have ripped higher. We should be seeing this increase at the pump shortly. If the strike actually happens it will get worse.
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. 12 cents/gallon would be chump change
if a strike idled even 10% of the refinery capacity in the USA.

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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Agreed...so NYMEX traders were only pricing in a very small
probability of any significant strike.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Freeper Dis-Information Alert - "Danger Will Robinson - Danger"
Are we trying to boost our Stock Market portfolio by going out on the Web and spreading dis-information

you really need to start taking Sundays off dude
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Freeper Dis-Information Alert - "Danger Will Robinson - Danger"
Edited on Sun Feb-01-09 03:15 PM by FreakinDJ
see post #11
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Lucky Luciano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Gasoline price chart


Notice on Wednesday the gap up - that was actually due to a DOE supply report that showed an unexpected draw in gasoline supplies, but the continued run up in gasoline prices on the NYMEX was due to the refinery strike that is being threatened. It is up about 12 cents per gallon from Wednesday morning at 10:30.

Disinformation, my ass.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-09 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. They are filling tanks along the pipe line
that is your increased demand

Goggle the fuel pipeline network installed post WWII by the DOD. Its huge. With farms of multi-million gal tanks lining the way.
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