IBM Offers To Move Laid Off Workers To India

[OhioChick]

Source: Information Week

Big Blue wants to help redundant U.S. employees relocate to developing markets, according to an internal document.

February 2, 2009 12:36 PM


The climate is warm, there's no shortage of exotic food, and the cost of living is rock bottom. That's IBM (NYSE: IBM)'s pitch to the laid-off American workers it's offering to place in India. The catch: Wages in the country are pennies-on-the-dollar compared to U.S. salaries.

Under a program called Project Match, IBM will help workers laid off from domestic sites obtain travel and visa assistance for countries in which Big Blue has openings. Mostly that's developing markets like India, China, and Brazil.

"IBM has established Project Match to help you locate potential job opportunities in growth markets where your skills are in demand," IBM says in an internal notice on the initiative. "Should you accept a position in one of these countries, IBM offers financial assistance to offset moving costs, provides immigration support, such as visa assistance, and other support to help ease the transition of an international move."

The document states that the program is limited to "satisfactory performers who have been notified of separation from IBM U.S. or Canada and are willing to work on local terms and conditions." The latter indicates that workers will be paid according to prevailing norms in the countries to which they relocate. In many cases, that could be substantially less than what they earned in North America.

IBM has laid off more than 4,000 workers in the United States since the beginning of January, according to an employee group. The company has confirmed layoffs but won't comment on specific numbers.






Read more: http://www.informationweek.com/news/management/outsourcing/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=213000389

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Interesting Comments Follow.

[SharonAnn]

1. This is from Information Week? I thought it would be from The Onion or Satirical Political

[ihavenobias]

26. That was my initial reaction as well. n/t

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

96. Why?

I think quite a few people would jump at the chance to be able to live and work in an entirely different country/culture. I've known people who've done this and generally they were wowed by the experience. YMMV regarding whether making the move permanently is such a great idea.

[SammyWinstonJack]

138. Yeah because working for pennies on the dollar is such an enticement for experiencing

'an entirely different country/culture'. Are you kidding me? And the reason for this, is because Microsoft is all about cheap labor for their bottom line. You okay with that?

[Horse with no Name]

2. This is a joke, right?

I want every tax break we give them rescinded.
What a fucking insult. Take your job here and offer you a job for pennies on the dollar working in a third world country.
Hell, I'd rather go to Mexico.
At least there are decent beaches.

[PatrynXX]

40. Actually supposedly it looks good on your resume

Course this was 1-2 years ago, but it was mentioning a large part of young Americans were going to India for IT. Because it looks good on their resume. If your nuts enough to do that. But thats young Americans. Not older Americans.

That would be my field, but I'm not that nuts.

[diamidue]

52. A friend went

to India as part of his job. Got so sick he almost died. And he had all the shots, etc. needed. I can't imagine taking a family there.

This is in no way a good thing. This is globalization at it's worst. A race to the bottom.

[Kablooie]

70. Alanis Morrisette went also. She got so sick she almost died too.

[HEyHEY]

72. Oh well, maybe next time.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

99. Oh snap! nt

[kirby]

90. Isn't that ironic! n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

106. If DUers thought Belgium would take American jobs...

...they'd be pointing to atrocities in the Congo as an accurate portrayal of modern day Brussels.

[Deja Q]

137. If peoples' lives are being elevated, I am for it. If it's a race to "the bottom", how can ANYONE

be for it?

[cannabis_flower]

66. Well, I have looked into.

south of the border jobs. I have a boyfriend who is a citizen of Honduras and maybe we will get married and when I retire and get social security will move to Honduras where he can continue to work for a few more years if he wants and I can collect social security and try to get a job in a call center I've located that is in San Pedro Sula, Honduras which appears to be about 20 miles from where we would be living in a house that he is paying for that his mother lives in.

[SharonAnn]

125. I lived in Honduras for a year in 1981 and loved it. We were in Tegucigalpa.

It was a terrific experience for me, I learned to speak Spanish, I learned to function in a different culture, and I learned what a country is like when it's been a U.S. corporate dominated Banana Republic for most of the last century. Not a pretty sight in that way.

I went there thinking I was a Republican, I saw the effect of American and corporate policies, and I came home and became a Democrat. Honduras was under a military government (propped up by the U.S.) at the time and was just voting for president when we left.

All in all, very interesting.

BTW, you can get Social Security wherever you are but not Medicare. Just be aware that medical coverage is very different in different countries.

[cannabis_flower]

129. I would be...

living in El Progreso if I moved there. There is a call center about 20 miles away in San Sula Pedro. I know that medicare doesn't work in other countries but I bet there is a supplement policy somewhere that would provide for basic care there and then I could get prescriptions there either cheaper or by mail order.

[saigon68]

122. No Joke you can see lots of cows SHIT in the street

[Deja Q]

136. Check up on the culture; cows are sacred there.

And all the hype about Americans farming cows as food being *the* cause of global warming... give me strength. Myopic media articles and one-sided partial-flim-flam.

[aquart]

3. So Americans will be stranded in India when India crashes.

And they'll be so popular. Thanks, IBM.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

4. ...

:wtf:

[Hawkeye-X]

5. I will take the job in India, if they pay me 9,000,000 rupees a YEAR

no more, no less.

[catnhatnh]

53. 9,000,000 Rupees?

Isn't that like $12.37?

[Aviation Pro]

58. More like 190,000 USD at today's rate.....

...but I quibble.

[Hawkeye-X]

132. According to XE

close to $200,000

[Deja Q]

134. India allows non-Indian people to work and live there? Or even to emigrate?

No way!

Now we know where all the US workers can go!!


(somehow, methinks India isn't quite as liberal as the US when it comes to offshoring and "insourcing".)

[OhioChick]

140. No....they're not.

India firing foreign workers to give jobs to locals

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Jobs/Expatriate_executives_making_way_for_local_hires/articleshow/4039529.cms

[Deja Q]

141. And yet it's wrong for the US to engage in protectionism.

Yeah, I must admit I am unhappy.

At least the expatriate EXECUTIVES are being sacked as well. I'm not entirely surprised either.


Though I wish more articles would drop the T-word, how many still think it's really about talent?

[OhioChick]

142. Same here. n/t

[Radical Activist]

6. that's pretty fucked up

but i would probably do it.

[ChromeFoundry]

7. You gotta be shittin' me!

That would be a pretty hard sell to the spouse!

I thought that India already had the, "best and the brightest!"

[OhioChick]

11. IBM wants bailout money from Obama. n/t

[Deja Q]

135. They don't deserve it. Not like this.

Obama needs to reverse the tax policies regarding companies that offshore.

They don't need the same incentives TO offshore, in the form of more tax breaks. And they certainly don't need welfare "corporate subsidy" to survive. Not under these conditions.

[Liberal Veteran]

8. Are they fucking high?

I....

have no words.

Ugh. Just ugh.

[Lost4words]

95. me too!

l4w!

[antigop]

9. The question to ask is...are these really available for U.S. citizens, or a way

for h1-b visaholders in the US to go back to their countries?

[closeupready]

12. That went through my mind, as well.

n/t

[OhioChick]

13. Didn't think of that....valid question. n/t

[Azlady]

18. ohhhh, very good point Antigop - hmm.

This link of course needs to be sent to Grassley/Durbin/White House

This is nuts!

[Baby Snooks]

42. The banks have been doing it for years...

The banks have been doing it for years - mainly management in the call centers which are now primarily in India. They of course have a lower wage but a higher standard of living even at the lower wage. The bottom line is it cuts costs and increases profit. And muddles the tax picture as well. We really have no "American" companies now. More and more oil and gas companies, for instance, are moving their "headquarters" to the Persian Gulf and now Switzerland. The CEO of Halliburton lives in Houston but commutes each day to the headquarters in Dubai.

[chatnoir]

87. That was the first thing I thought

when I saw the headline.

[high density]

10. So basically, IBM is saying...

"We like what you're doing, we just don't want to pay you for it."

I suppose this is a good opportunity for the .005% of the people who were laid off that want to go live in Brazil, the Czech Republic, or Russia.

[ljm2002]

14. What strikes me about this...

...is that capital flows freely, with a minimum of regulation. Yet labor -- at whatever level -- is highly regulated. Can't have the riff-raff moving around freely, now can we? Wouldn't want people to have freedom to move where they want to -- no, they have to have the power of the giganto corporation to help them wend their way through the paperwork -- the paperwork that was so carefully put in place, and that just happens to favor capital, and the capitalists who run things.

Bastards. And they'll present it like they're doing these workers a great big favor. How patriotic of them!

And meanwhile, the India Times presumes to lecture us when we push for "Buy American", calling it "pseudo-patriotism". Unlike, you know, the "Rah, rah, Shock 'n' Awe", which apparently is "real" patriotism.

Assholes.

[OhioChick]

15. Skittles....Where are you?

There's a job waiting for you. ;-)

[Skittles]

30. gawd

just dealing with them on the phone makes me want to hang myself

[OhioChick]

35. I know your pain. n/t

[harmonicon]

16. I knew this would come some day

The day that the US is one of the countries that people leave to find work elsewhere. I left two years ago for more-or-less that reason, and I hope to never come back.

[Muttocracy]

23. hmm, so much for our pesky im-migration problems. wow. nt

[Mari333]

17. oh so they want bailout money and this is how they think they will get it

how low can you go??? 'see, President Obama, we OFFERED the workers in the United States jobs in INDIA, but they didnt want to work for slave wages, so whats a company to do?? I mean, we offered them JOBS!'
whose fucking bright idea was this..some mid-level CEO at a board meeting..
god I hope Obama sees right thru this one.
I thought I had seen everything.

[stillcool]

21. IBM wants bail-out money?

I think it's nice they offer jobs in India to their employees. Better that than nothing, which is what most folks get.

[OhioChick]

32. Yes, they want bailout money...

Tech Industry CEOs Back Obama's Rescue Package
Corporate America Sees Benefit of Massive Federal Spending to Help Turn Around Slumping Sales, Combat Huge Job Losses

President Barack Obama won a well-timed plug for his economic-rescue plan from the U.S. high-tech industry, a group he nurtured heavily during the campaign.

Mr. Obama's gathering with 13 chief executives at the White House Wednesday -- the first corporate sit-down of his presidency -- showed how much the two sides now need one another's support. Ten of the 13 executives run companies that would broadly be considered from the technology industry.

Chief executives who met with President Obama
Steve Appleton, Micron Technology
David Barger, Jet Blue Airways
Greg Brown, Motorola
John Bryson, Edison International
David M. Cote, Honeywell
Debra Lee, BET Holdings
Anne Mulcahy, Xerox
Sam Palmisano, IBM
Antonio Perez, Eastman Kodak
Eric Schmidt, Google
Michael Splinter, Applied Materials
Wendell Weeks, Corning
Ron Williams, Aetna

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123318835721826641.html?mod=article-outset-box

If you think it's so "nice" of IBM....then you should go and move there. I don't want my taxpayer dollars going to IBM. Fuck that.

[stillcool]

39. what you wouldn't like someone ..

to offer you a seat on a life-boat if you were on the Titanic? I love how the first reaction is "Leave"! It's frigging hilarious.

In the 1970s and 1980s, many of the industrial giants in the United States, Europe, and Japan became global companies; they no longer wanted to claim allegiance to any country in the world. By becoming global companies they could force nations to compete with each other to attract their companies to build factories in their countries. By the 1980s, these global companies, now often called Transnational corporations (TNCs) were aggressively using this strategy of globalization to blackmail countries into reducing their costs and increasing their profits. I believe that President Reagan's economic program, which Phillips and others have called Reaganomics, reflect the increasing reality of the global industrial economy and the power of TNCs to blackmail even the biggest and strongest countries and force them to create economic, political, and social conditions that will reduce their companies' costs and increase their profits. Let's now look at some of the major demands these TNCs imposed on industrial countries in the 1980s and 1990s:

Demands Made by Transnational Corporations to do Business in a
Country under the Global Economy

1. Greatly reduce Corporate taxes and taxes on the rich.

2. Greatly reduce government spending in order to cut taxes.

3. Increase taxes on the middle-class and poor to pay for the necessary government services, such as support for TNCs.

4. Reduce environmental, work-safety, and product-safety regulations.

5. Provide millions and millions of dollars in tax incentives and subsidies to TNCs in order to convince them to locate in your country.

6. Build and support modern industrial factories for TNCs to use rent-free.

7. Create tax-free export processing zones so that TNCs can produce products without paying any taxes at all.

8. Reduce and lower worker's wages by keeping the minimum wage low or eliminating the minimum wage altogether.

9. Reduce the costs of hiring workers by reducing or eliminating workers' compensation taxes, social security taxes,and health insurance taxes.

10. Allow child-labor at almost any age and under any conditions.

11. Do not enforce maximum work-day hours, such as the eight hour day or the 40 hour week.

12. Use government power to crush and weaken labor unions. Allow companies to hire security firms to harass and intimidate workers and unions.

13. Allow TNCs to freely take their money and profits out of your country.

14. Reduce government support for health-care, education, and anti-poverty and anti-hunger programs, forcing workers to work for any wage just to take care of and feed their families.

15. Support global free trade and work to prevent countries from denying companies the right to sell their products despite the brutal conditions, environmental destruction, and exploitation of their workers.

16. Don't restrict or limit immigration and encourage high levels of unemployment in order to force workers to compete by working for lower and lower wages.

17. Limit and restrict local and national government control over their economies. Encourage global bodies to set economic standards that will benefit TNCs.

18. Limit the ability of workers and citizens to challenge the TNCs and their own government's economic programs which help the TNCs at their expense.

19. Create massive national debts in order to bankrupt governments and force them to be even more at the mercy of the TNCs. Governments can thus say they have no choice but to accept these conditions.

20. Force your citizens to accept lower standards of living and quality of life in order to guarantee higher profits for TNCs.

[OhioChick]

45. It may be "hilarious" but it's the truth. n/t

[stillcool]

50. it's the truth? You think telling someone to leave....

because you don't like something they say is the answer? Is that what you tell your kids..if you don't like it leave?

[OhioChick]

51. "Is that what you tell your kids.."

No, they're bright.

[stillcool]

61. Hoepfully they won't work for a global corporation...

and <gasp> be offered a job in one of the 140 something countries that corporation is based in.

[OhioChick]

91. They won't. I'm already sure of that.

"Hopefully" your children/grandchildren won't work for a global corporation and sent off who knows where.

Bet your tune would change.

[stillcool]

102. I hope they prosper wherever they are....

and I am certain they will.

[DUlover2909]

77. Maybe a little industrial sabotage could fix this scenario.

[stillcool]

104. Now there you go...

fight fire with fire on a global basis.

[suegeo]

111. Motorola. Ick.

Doesn't Motorola have a big outsourcing history?

[ChromeFoundry]

33. You think it's nice...

that they want to reduce pay, relocate people to India, get a handout from the U.S. taxpayers, in order to increase their profit margins?

That is the most idiotic thing I have heard all day!

I want a portion of my 2009 taxes set-aside to move you there.

[stillcool]

38. Thank You!! Although I'm not interested..

I will die here..sooner or later. And yes, I think it's special that they offer to take some Americans with them off the sinking ship that is the United States.

[ChromeFoundry]

43. It's companies like this...

that have leaned the boat so far over to cause it to take on water. Now they demand a payout from taxpayers in the form of a bail-out. I guess rape is just fine as long as the sheets look clean, in your eyes.

We shall see how many workers and families get relocated and are offered opportunities... and how many will be relocated and abandoned over there once they have retrained their replacements.

btw... eat more nuts and fish, they promote cranial cell growth - there is an obvious abundance of real estate available, in your case.

[stillcool]

48. Get over yourself...

you want someone to pitch a bitch at look elsewhere. BTW...You aren't nearly as smart as you think you are.

[ChromeFoundry]

54. On here, I don't have to be very smart...

There are people like you that make everyone look above their potential.

[stillcool]

60. Tell me..do you think IBM ..

has some kind of allegiance to the United States or the American people? Did you know that IBM has been in Japan since 1937? That they operate in something like 140 countries? That they moved their procurement headquarters to China in 2006?

[dmr]

76. If that's the case, they should be ashamed to even ask for bailout money

If there is no "allegiance" as you say, "to the United States or the American people", then they have no business even entertaining the idea of obtaining American taxpayer dollars. Let their company die out or go elsewhere to pad their coffers.

I'm tired of corporate games.

[OhioChick]

92. Bingo!

IBM should go hit up other country's citizens for bailout money.

[jgraz]

19. Want a financial tip? Invest in guillotines.

I have a feeling demand's about to rise.

[nilram]

65. and knitting supplies

[Raineyb]

75. Hmmm. I don't know. Decent knitting supplies aren't cheap.

And I don't knit with heavy ass cheap craft store needles or acrylic yarn.

Regards

[Buns_of_Fire]

88. I'm negotiating to open a local franchise of "Pitchforks 'n' Torches R Us"

Locally-manufactured, of course, featuring our innovative two-in-one combination of pitchfork AND torch (actually it's more a flamethrower -- kiddie versions available). THIS is going to be the next growth industry! (Soon, this may be be the ONLY growth industry.)

[blueworld]

107. I've started building tumbrils

From sustainably harvested American lumber, and they can be reused for years as a replacement for corporate jets and SUV's. They're affordable, rustic, environmentally friendly and can fit an entire Board of Directors (car pooling, so to speak) in one trip. :patriot:

[cap]

116. you're in a growth industry... you're only problem is that very soon

there will be too much competition. Too many people will want to get in on the act. :)

So ya gotta diversify:

Building tumbrils, servicing tumbrils, greening tumbrils, sustainable tumbrils, specialized tumbrils per the industry.

There's also providing knitting needles and yarn to the women spectators, knife sharpening services to the guillotines, hauling stones for the stoning (picking up the stones afterwards so they can be reused.

[Shardik]

20. I have no words.

Except K&R. I can't believe this shit.

[Lost4words]

97. US CORPORATIONS HAVE EFFECTED MY QUALITY OF LIFE LIKE NO TERRORIST EVER COULD!

28 YEARS OF THIS SHIT!!!!

caps lock was on, sorry not really shouting but I should!

[Skittles]

22. I wouldn't live there if they quadrupled my salary

[maddogesq]

25. Yep, like a country with over 1B people needs more people.

IBM, you BM, we all BM, for IBM.

[Left Coast2020]

28. Thes companies are telling us

to go "F" yourself. They have no dignity. No morals. Only saluting the almighty dollar. They should be thrown in jail for treason. They build a large U.S. comapny, and the people who make that company successful get kicked in the ass. This is beyond discusting. And the community where the company was based suffers too. No wonder people have been known to go postal. How else do they release their outrage?

I wonder which people in congress take $$ from IBM? :mad: :grr: :mad: :grr: :mad:

[Skittles]

29. I agree

I served my country, I work hard, I invest in my community but none of that means shit to fucked up greedy companies

[Lost4words]

100. I think we would be wise not to expect too much to change!

money has power and most of us dont even have jobs anymore.

I hope I am wrong...

[OhioChick]

37. "These companies are telling us to go "F" yourself."

Damn straight they are and it's pretty fucked up. Where are our elected officials? I've been writing everyone for years. :mad:

[Muttocracy]

24. Are they going to relocate entire families? Those other countries

probably don't get all in a hissy fit about IBM's toxic waste like New York does.

[Political Heretic]

27. IBM's just found the solution to low US opinion of foreign based call centers

No one likes foreign based call centers because the operators typically do not speak quality English. IBM realizes the solution is simple in a bad economy when people can't find other jobs. Just fire your employees and tell them if they don't like it they can get their job back.... in INDIA BITCH! Muhahahahahaha! Now they can have cheap labor that speaks great English too! Everyone wins! Well, everyone that matters.....

Don't like it? Let them eat cake.... just don't drink the water.

[nichomachus]

105. It's not the quality of their English

that bothers me. It's the fact that people in the foreign call centers have no authority. They can't solve your problem. They have a notebook and a script that they read from. That's all they can do for you. They can neither think nor act outside the box. Even if they speak perfect English, they can't really help you once your problem requires creative action.

This is why I always try to escalate, escalate, escalate -- until I get someone in the States. That's when you can get someone to really help you.

[Political Heretic]

119. I'm sure that's true, but I read that the #1 complain among surveyed americans about foreign

call centers was that they couldn't understand the people they were talking to.

Yes, that's going to have to stay an anecdotal claim because I'm sleepy and am going to bed rather than going to google to try and link that info up. :D

[SoCalDem]

31. Just a passive aggressive poke in the eye to employees who are already hurting

bastards..

[Mind_your_head]

34. Wow - globalization on the fast-track.....

suck everyone's knowledge/skills/good work habits for pennies on the dollar. What AUDACITY!!!!

It's MIND BOGGLING! A 'brain drain' is when smart people would move out of a country to a better/well-paying one. THIS is moving out of a (somewhat arguably) great country to go to a lower paying one (and 'enjoying' a lower standard of living)...

'Someone' is really throwing a gauntlet down now. If you want a JOB, you've got to accept "pennies".

:wow:

[pork medley]

78. I'd hardly call an exodus of first world tech support workers a "brain drain"

[Mind_your_head]

127. ehm, what would YOU call it then?

on edit to add: a "supposed" exodus of PRIME workers to a "sub-prime" living environment, earning less money......I call that stupid. What would YOU call it?

[Muttocracy]

36. Hang on - will this mess with employees' unemployment benefits

if they refuse to locate for available work (in India)?!

[Nexus7]

41. Ah, so here are jobs Americans won't do

So the economy continues to crater, IBM, through no fundamental fault of its own faces a downturn in business, and, unlike Microsoft, Circuit City, GM, etc. they are offering workers who will be laid off an opportunity to relocate and take a job that would otherwise go to an Indian. Perhaps a job providing tech support for Indian customers, or developing custom applications - IBM after all, has a giant consulting business, in fact, they got rid of their consumer hardware business to do big iron and consulting/custom development.

And DUers would prefer that IBM not do that.

Nice.

[catnhatnh]

59. I have to ask....why THIS thread.....

You've posted 198 times in 8 years...just 9 times in the last 4...this is your first post in those 4 years any place but the Illinois forum...

I'm fascinated-why THIS thread???

[Trajan]

74. Yeah ...

DUers would prefer that workers didnt get FUCKED in the first place, and then DUers would like to see that the very FUCKERS who FUCKED US dont get rewarded, on our dime ....

As that asking too damned much ?

[Heidi]

85. Through "no fundamental fault of its own"? How about the CEO's $1.8 million salary,

$5 million bonus eligibility and $12 million in performance-based stock grants?

International Business Machines Corp. will pay Chief Executive Officer Sam Palmisano a salary of $1.8 million in 2009, unchanged from last year.

Palmisano, 57, is also eligible for a bonus of as much as $5 million and $12 million in stock grants based on his performance, IBM said in a regulatory filing. IBM won't increase base salaries or target bonuses for executives this year, according to a memo sent by spokesman Mike Fay. http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=268973

Further:
IBM CEO pay package up 11 pct to $19.8 mln in 2007
IBM CEO Compensated $24.46 Million in 2006

[EmeraldCityGrl]

44. we are so fucked.

[McCamy Taylor]

46. If I were single and worked for IBM, I could see doing this as an adventure.....

But won't the host countries have a shit fit over the loss of jobs, especially in India where there are an abundance of trained English speaking workers clamoring for these positions? I am guessing that IBM is doing this so that they can brag that they never "lay off" workers, they only offer them "transfers" to places where they will not go.

Where next? Siberia?

[OhioChick]

47. My guess is that they'll just relocate some of their H-1B staff over there. n/t

[Chulanowa]

73. I'd much prefer Siberia

?v=0

[Waiting For Everyman]

49. How 'bout IBM gets the f*ck out, and we subsidize creating a new company to compete with them?

Heck, just the business from our governments, if kept here, would keep American-only companies healthy. Give THEM tax breaks, none to offshorers. (The old way worked for a reason.)

[w4rma]

55. ****ing 'free' trading, traitorous, bailout money-wanting bastards. (nt)

[truthisfreedom]

56. Sick joke. SO... when IBM goes belly-up, finally, do they pay for you to come back?

Or are you stranded there forever, with an impossibly small amount of money to get started with again in the US?

And a resumé that says you worked for nothing overseas?

Why not just relocate everyone to Detroit, where IBM can buy you a house for a month's salary, and just take a massive pay cut to live in squalor in the US?

This is such a cynical ploy that it leaves me speechless. Well not quite... FUCK YOU, IBM.

[tomreedtoon]

57. And Rat on a Stick is still delicious.

And so is dressing your kids in cotton clothes with holes so big they could be used to strain lasagna. But at least they'll learn proper grammar which they couldn't do in American schools, as long as they take the caning in good humor.

[ima_sinnic]

62. and IBM is an "American" company in what way?

these are quintessential parasites. have their "headquarters" here so they don't have to pay taxes (because no "US" corporation still pays taxes, does it?), but have their real operation in other countries. suck down our resources, let the taxpayers fund their infrastructure and their yachts, but do their "business" where overhead is low and labor is dirt cheap.

these people are laughing all the way to the bank. we are being played for total suckers and fools. but I despair of Americans actually growing a pair and revolting.

[antigop]

101. I don't think the IBM CEO considers IBM an "American" company-- it's "multinational"

Hasn't he said that?

[Aviation Pro]

63. The cities that IBM has the most presence are....

...Bangalore, Mumbai, Delhi and Pune. Most are equal or close to modern Western standards (the worst of which is Delhi), but I wouldn't move there for all the lahk's in Nagpur.

[skoalyman]

64. good grief sounds like something you'd hear off a late night

comedy show :tv:

[ozu]

108. Mumbai

I'd seriously consider taking an offer to relocate to Mumbai provided that it was a lateral move salary-wise.

There's no reason for them to offer a lateral move so it would never happen, but I think it would be a great experience.

[harpboy_ak]

67. But hey, you can have servants!

I know an Indian couple, both architects, who worked here on H1-Bs after grad school. That is, until their baby was born (a US citizen), and then they moved back to Bangalore, where they could afford to have a nanny, a cook, a housekeeper, and a gardener on their Indian professional wages.

In India, many tech workers make enough to afford servants. I once asked an Indian physician what a dishwasher cost in India, and he quoted me the monthly wages, because machines to wash dishes are almost unknown in a country where domestic servants cost so little.

So Americans working in India would not only be contributing to the Indian economy from their labor, but by employing Indians in their households.

Sorry, but I'm not interested. A job in India doesn't pay the mortgage here.

[Historic NY]

68. I'm sure they all won't like curry. I mean after all IBM had record profits.

[nbcouch]

69. Wake up people - this is an improvement!

They've been doing this for years, only they've been giving the jobs in India to Indians. What this tells me is that the labor market over there may be tightening up, as demand outstrips supply.

[OhioChick]

93. India firing foreign workers to give jobs to locals

India firing foreign workers to give jobs to locals

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Jobs/Expatriate_executives_making_way_for_local_hires/articleshow/4039529.cms

[HEyHEY]

71. This is cause for violence, if you ask me

For centuries people have been coming to industrialized nations seeking better lives. Now that it's so easy to ship and telecommute and such, the plan is to herd us serfs back to these poor countries to work at slave labour wages.

[Ghost Dog]

81. "Now that it's so easy to ship and telecommute and such"

The ease and relatively incredibly low cost of shipping goods of all sorts by land, sea and air is at the heart of our economic problems, I reckon. Shipping carries additional very large environmental costs which are not charged for under current pricing arrangements, and also is fundamental to the pattern of loss of viable local economies, of local production and supply chains and jobs, and the social disintegration that is caused. Shipping costs should make moving much more than essential raw materials great distances prohibitively expensive. Were the true costs of shipping goods across the world taken into account, much more economic activity would instead grow up locally to serve local consumers' needs and demands.

As regards telecommuting and such, I see far more benefits than costs and would do nothing to restrict the free flow of ideas.

[pork medley]

79. You guys should totally move there.

Indians love Americans... for some reason.

[Fovea]

80. F'in Nazis.

No, really. This is just evil.
First they outsource, then the ship off their victims to lahore?

[suegeo]

113. Nazis is an accurate label.

google around for IBMs role in the Holocaust.

[Fovea]

120. I used it with all due deliberatioin

As a former IT professional, it is our shame.

But thank you for mentioning it more explicitly.

[Larkspur]

82. I sent this article to Rachel Maddow and asked her

to look into what Americans would have to give up to move and work in India. I also asked her to give this article to Keith Olbermann so he can put IBM on his "Worse Person in the World" list.

[proud patriot]

118. hopefully she'll look into it

I'm just Dumbfounded people would go for this .

[OhioChick]

126. I sent this to everyone that I could think of that would address it, as well. n/t

[harun]

83. The IT workers I heard from a few years ago who tried to do this were not allowed

to do it. India's gov't wouldn't give them visa's. I will have to look in to if this has changed.

[antigop]

94. OK, is this what is going on?

Are the jobs moving to India or other countries? Were they being performed by h1-b visaholders?

Is this a way to allow the h1-b visaholders to move back and DO THE SAME JOB IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY?

Is it cheaper to move the job to another country than have h1-b visaholders perform those jobs in the US? Or are companies fearing a crackdown on h1-b visas here with the new administration, so they are being "proactive"?

SO many questions...

[2Design]

109. This sounds like the truth - they lay off the h1b visa people and pay

for them to move back home and tell usa government how they laid off h1b visa people

[BR_Parkway]

84. You have to wonder how many of these jobs could .be done right here

in the US. I'd be willing to bet a majority of them.

[Heidi]

86. I think this a big ruse. Why would India allow Americans to move in and compete

with its own labor pool? I'm not saying I think immigrant labor is wrong or that competition between US and foreign labor is wrong or right, but why would India go along with this? It's obvious how it would benefit IBM and its stakeholders, but how would India benefit?

[liberal N proud]

89. Along with a huge cut in pay

"Wages in the country are pennies-on-the-dollar compared to U.S. salaries"

But then I suppose so is the standard of living.

[cap]

114. so... how are people gonna make their car payments, mortgages, 401K contributions, college loans

college savings for kids? How would their finances look on Suze Orman's show? Let's see, if you are making 5K/year how would your 401K look?

[OhioChick]

115. Good point. n/t

[cap]

117. or are we gonna let those industries collapse as well.

I wonder if IBM has worked out a deal with the banks as to how their worker's inability to make their monthly payments isn't going to whack our financial system.

I mean it's great if these workers want to run off to India for a "life experience" but who's gonna pick up on their mortgages? I hope IBM doesn't mean for them to go into foreclosure or bankruptcy.

[Lost4words]

98. K & R!

[antigop]

103. "Staffing in India has jumped from just 9,000 workers in 2003 to 74,000 workers in 2007."

http://www.kare11.com/news/national/national_article.aspx?storyid=537958&catid=18

It isn't releasing specific numbers, but IBM has cut thousands of jobs over the past week including positions in sales, hardware and software divisions.

Workers have reported layoffs in Arizona, Minnesota, North Carolina, New York state, Texas and Vermont. IBM says the cuts are simply part of its ongoing efforts to watch costs.

It is adding bodies in cheaper and higher-growth parts of the world, like India.

Staffing in India has jumped from just 9,000 workers in 2003 to 74,000 workers in 2007.

[arikara]

110. Another great idea brought to you by the company that enabled the holocaust

IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance Between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation
by Edwin Black

...
"IBM, primarily through its German subsidiary, made Hitler's program of Jewish destruction a technologic mission the company pursued with chilling success," writes Black. "IBM had almost single-handedly brought modern warfare into the information age virtually put the 'blitz' in the krieg."

The crucial technology was a precursor to the computer, the IBM Hollerith punch card machine, which Black glimpsed on exhibit at the U.S. Holocaust Museum, inspiring his five-year, top-secret book project. The Hollerith was used to tabulate and alphabetize census data. Black says the Hollerith and its punch card data ("hole 3 signified homosexual ... hole 8 designated a Jew") was indispensable in rounding up prisoners, keeping the trains fully packed and on time, tallying the deaths, and organizing the entire war effort. Hitler's regime was fantastically, suicidally chaotic; could IBM have been the cause of its sole competence: mass-murdering civilians? Better scholars than I must sift through and appraise Black's mountainous evidence, but clearly the assessment is overdue.

...

Read it and you will never buy another IBM product again. The corporation should have lost its charter and been disbanded decades ago and the heads doing hard labour for life. They should not exist.

edit typo

[saigon68]

123. This sounds Familiar

[Yavin4]

112. As Someone Who Has Spent Time Working in Bangalore, India

It sucks. The power cuts out at least three times a day for an hour or more. Forget about driving there, and being a pedestrian means taking your life into your hands.

As for the IT workers there, my job was to interview and hire data analysts for a start up company, and let me tell you that the only reason why IT firms are over there is the cost of labor, not the talent. The workers over there are no more better than the workers here.

[OhioChick]

124. I have several co-workers that have been there

And have said exactly the same as you. They were actually frightened and mentioned the lack of talent. Can you imagine U.S. workers taking their entire families over there?

I think that ole' Sam from IBM should set an example and go live there with his family for pennies on the dollar.

[Deja Q]

139. Most of us who have dealt with offshored support, regardless of host country, know the truth

It's not about talent.

It's another company thinking it's controlling its costs.

Yet everyone I know, myself included, have had delays and other problems -- our costs go up because of their greed.

It hurts EVERYBODY. In one or more ways.

Globalization is a sham until it is properly regulated. Oh noes, the dreaded "R" word again.

Where are the pro-offshoring people? They stand out like flies off that lady's bum. Yet they don't seem to be here.

[progressoid]

121. Wow...

just wow.

[skoalyman]

128. I think IBM's in the wrong business they should have been writing for that office

show that got canceled must see tv office moves to India :rofl:

[sarcasmo]

130. I sure thought this was a article from the Onion. What a sad country we live in.

[AngryOldDem]

131. Words fail me.

Just when I thought I'd seen/heard it all.

Good 'ole IBM -- always looking out for its workers. :sarcasm: (As if it's needed.)

[KamaAina]

133. IBM = I've Been Moved

but it used to be to Binghamton, not Bangalore. :eyes: