Another bailed out bank partying on our dime - Wells Fargo

[Clear Blue Sky]

Source: Rocky Mountain News

WASHINGTON — Bailed-out banking giant Wells Fargo is planning more than a week of corporate junkets at Las Vegas casinos.

Wells Fargo, which received $25 billion in taxpayer money, has booked 12 nights at the Wynn and Encore hotels starting Friday.



Read more: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/03/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-vegas-casino-junkets/

---

These banks are clueless...

[ck4829]

1. If you complain about banks using bailout funds to par-tay, then you are advocating "CLASS WARFARE"

K&R

[Zodiak]

16. Then let's declare it

I think that Americans are going to get an "eat the rich" attitude before too long. It is only a couple of decades late, but better than never.

[happygoluckytoyou]

25. The WAR is ON.... i wonder if i can crash a bank party... FREE FOOD ! ! !

[Corey]

97. Americans will NEVER revolt

As long as there is cheap labor in other countries, Walmart and Target can give American's their toys and no riots will ever come.

When America looks like the Middle East, that is when there will be riots, because there will be no choice but to steal food and beg for your life...just how the US government has always left the parts of the world they "help" while they rape them and a few get rich.

[roguevalley]

34. fuckers. when my house is paid off, buh-bye forever.

[chad78]

36. good luck

soooo...in 30 years or so you'll be able to kiss Wells Fargo goodbye. Awesome. And for good reason too. How dare a company reward it's employees on it's own dime...You should be happy that your loan is with a solvent, well-capitalized bank...instead, you find ridiculous stuff like this to bitch about.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NeoConsSuck]

87. on it's own dime?

sure it wasn't on the 250 billion dimes they scammed from the taxpayer's pockets?

You freepers never fail to amaze me.

[pa28]

60. I keep hearing this line from finance pundits and insiders.

They claim it's socialistic to deny them their gilded lifestyle! :crazy:

No - it's socialistic for the government to subsidize it, and wrong.

[chad78]

65. nothings is subsidized...

do your homework. The government isn't subsidizing anything. Wells Fargo does this every year, and they have never been received any flack for it. They refused the bailout funds from the TARP, but were required to take it. They shouldn't need to cancel their trip just because the government has forced them to take funds, plus pay interest back on those funds.

[pa28]

80. Looks like they cancelled the trip.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28999671/

I think that's wise. And BTW they were not "forced" to take taxpayer money.

[PBS Poll-435]

84. The hell they weren't

They aren't even ALLOWED to pay back the money for 4 years.

While the Government gets to keep gettin' those sweet, sweet dividends.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4974063&mesg_id=4974063

[Lucky Luciano]

89. To be fair, the dividends suck - only 5%...but WFC being higher quality

should only pay about 5%...That said, the same 5% is being paid by Goldman even though Warren Buffet injected a bunch of cash into GS for a 9% preferred divvy plus warrants that were at the money at issuance - the government got hosed by comparison!

[pa28]

92. I'm not sure how you concluded that.

They were told that if they declined the $25B the government may not be as generous next time. Is there more to the story? To me that is not "forcing".

Anyway, if the terms were so onerous and they were so sure of their capital position why did they take the money? I'm a skeptic so I would naturally think they actually were concerned or they saw a golden opportunity to sell preferred stock at top dollar.

[ProgressIn2008]

90. Hmm, class warfare sounds good to me. nt

[wroberts189]

2. And to think of how much people struggle to pay them every month. nt

[Skwmom]

3. Same bank that foreclosed on an Ohio woman who

bought a house for 147,000 paying 40,000 (yes that's right 40k) down. Her payment went from around 850 a month (don't recall the exact amount to over 1,500 a month).

Of I forgot, it was minorities like this woman (she was African American) who caused this crisis. :sarcasm:

[Lance_Boyle]

4. why in the hell would someone accept an ARM

when they were putting down 40% up front? Stinky story, that one.

[Skwmom]

5. Some people are easy to take advantage of.

Plus, some older Americans mistakenly believe they can rely upon verbal representations.

[Brazenly Liberal]

12. That's not 40%. It's 27% -- not such a huge down payment.

The way they were selling the ARMs, they tried to make it sound practically impossible that your rate would EVER go up. My friend's mother got the pitch from a couple of banks and you would have thought it was illegal for rates to go up after listening to them. Add to that the fact that black people really do have a harder time getting mortgages and it's really not hard to see this happening.

Wells Fargo holds our mortgage. Their customer service is the WORST EVER and the employees we've dealt with are so unpleasant, I don't have a hard time believing this story is essentially true.

[glinda]

18. They hold ours also and customer service has tanked

especially in the last six months. We now have a young guy who screws up a lot and has a bad arrogant attitude. Wells Fargo DID NOT originally want the money, they were TOLD they HAD to take it. The reason they were told was "you take it now or risk not getting any help later". I did not like that.

[YOY]

6. Names and faces. Addresses too.

Otherwise I'm getting sick of these bank stories. Tell me who the hell they are and not the bank they work for.

[RiverStone]

7. Bailed-out Wells Fargo plans Vegas casino junkets

Source: salon.com (AP)

Feb 3rd, 2009 | WASHINGTON -- Wells Fargo & Co., which received $25 billion in taxpayer bailout money, is planning a series of corporate junkets to Las Vegas casinos this month.

Wells Fargo, once among the nation's top writers of subprime mortgages, has booked 12 nights at the Wynn Las Vegas and its sister hotel, the Encore Las Vegas beginning Friday, said Wynn spokeswoman Michelle Loosbrock. The hotels will host the annual conference for company's top mortgage officers.

The conference is a Wells Fargo tradition. Previous years have included all-expense-paid helicopter rides, wine tasting, horseback riding in Puerto Rico and a private Jimmy Buffett concert in the Bahamas for more than 1,000 employees and guests.

"I was amazed with just how lavish it was," said Debra Rickard, a former Wells Fargo mortgage employee from Colorado who attended the events regularly until she left the company in 2004. "We stayed in top hotels, the entertainment was just unbelievable, and there were awards -- you got plaques or trophies."

While the nation's recession has led other banks, such as Bank of America, to cancel employee recognition outings, Wells Fargo has not.

"Recognition events are still part of our culture," spokeswoman Melissa Murray said. "It's really important that our team members are still valued and recognized."



Read more: http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/2009/02/03/D964A5IG1_wells_fargo_vegas/index.html

---

There are no words left which adequately express my disgust. Maybe 1000 DU avatars with that barfing face will do....

[HelenWheels]

8. Pure arrogance

The arrogance of these guys is unbelievable. This should be stopped.

[LanternWaste]

9. Well, as some on DU were defending Luxury Boxes and Jets...

Well, as some on DU were defending Corporate Luxury Boxes and Lear Jets for management to go on golf junkets, I await with baited breath to witness the justifications, defenses and rationales as to why a Vegas junket is not only" good for business, but almost a necessity..."

C'mon guys-- don't let me down!

[BrightKnight]

73. U.S. made general aviation jets are the best in the world.

This industry can compete with anyone anywhere in the world and win. It is a really bright export market and a source of thousands of great jobs. Making general aviation a symbol for corruption will have unintended consequences.

We probably export more jets and jet parts than we sell here.


"Regional jet parts, worth $243 million, led Georgia’s export list. " http://www.worldcityweb.com/home/ATL/statistics/view/24/

--

I am not defending the Vegas junket at all.

[cherish44]

23. "Recognition events are still part of our culture," spokeswoman Melissa Murray said. "It's really im

Then get them a gift certificate to Chili's or something.

[LiberalFighter]

41. Give them a $25 reduction on their next refinancing. Valid for 90 days.

[Phx_Dem]

29. Get your facts straight before grabbing your pitchforks.

Wells Fargo niether asked for nor wanted bailout money.

Wall Street Journal:

During the discussion, the most animated response came from Wells Fargo (WFC) Chairman Richard Kovacevich, say people present. Why was this necessary? he asked. Why did the government need to buy stakes in these banks?

After Mr. Kovacevich voiced his concerns, Mr. Paulson described the deal starkly. He told the Wells Fargo chairman he could accept the government's money or risk going without the infusion. If the company found it needed capital later and Mr. Kovacevich couldn't raise money privately, Mr. Paulson promised the government wouldn't be so generous the second time around.

http://www.zimbio.com/CEO+Dick+Kovacevich/articles/119/Wells+Fargo+Forced+TARP+Plan

USA Today:

When U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson laid out his plan to invest in Wells Fargo at a meeting last week, Kovacevich protested because he didn't think his San Francisco-based bank should be forced to sell stock that might dilute other shareholders, according to published reports in The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal.

Wells Fargo so far has been able to avoid the staggering losses that have hit other major banks stemming from risky home loans made to borrowers with shoddy credit records or inadequate income to repay the debts after real estate prices began to plunge last year.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2008-10-22-876661689_x.htm

[Lucky Luciano]

42. An excellent point being ignored by the pitchfork folks...

Pitchforks are for Citi and Bank of America. I think WFC has done a very good job of managing this mess. JPM has managed ok as well.

[AntiFascist]

62. Why were they being given this money in the first place?

Why is it so easy to hand out $25 billion of taxpayer money to a company that doesn't even need it?! Shouldn't Paulson be sent to prison for doing this?

[Hansel]

76. Paulson should be sent to prison for this and more. n/t

[CoffeeCat]

95. Something really, really stinks here...

Ok, why would our government practically threaten a large bank into taking money, like that.

In the quotes from this "USA Today" article--Paulson sounds like part of the mafia--strong arming someone, "You
either take that money from us now...or when you really need it, we won't be as nice."

Anyone else feel the stench of Tony Soprano all over this money?

It feels loan sharkish. You take our money. Not because we're nice guys, but because we want
to own and control your ass in the future.

I think this little exchange between the Wells Fargo CEO and Paulson deserves more examination.

I'm sure this little nugget of information will be an important piece of history.

Something is up.

[Skwmom]

35. Yeah, the crooks that can talk someone into an unfair loan arrangement

should be valued and recognized. Nothing like celebrating greed and predatory lending.

[chad78]

37. again, ignorance...

Wells Fargo has been widely recognized as the top lender for NOT getting involved in predatory lending or granting loans that were questionable and/or risky. This is why they are still in business and most of their competitors that did the risky loans are not. Wells Fargo passed on Billions of dollars in profit to avoid these loans at the time, and it was the best decision they ever made, in retrospect. Get a life...

[Skwmom]

102. Well the woman who paid 40 k down on a 147 k loan and

had her payment increase to over 1500 (and who was facing foreclosure) had her loan with this bank. I guess you consider that non-predatory. Wait, I'm sure she was the only one who had that kind of loan.... :rofl:


On edit: Of coure she wasn't. Google is your friend. http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2679

http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/2008/11/04/wells-fargo-watchdogs/

[gratuitous]

10. Wait, let's not be too hasty

Perhaps the casino junket is a way to make oodles of money so that they can pay back that bailout money. Maybe some of their executives are feeling extra lucky. Boy, when they hit the big, big, big jackpot and bail out America, won't you all feel foolish for doubting the exquisite business acumen of banking executives?

[PBS Poll-435]

55. Maybe the dumbest post on the thread

:applause:

[gratuitous]

70. Thank you

Always good to have talent recognized by the best. :hi:

[doodadem]

11. W-A-I-T just a minute!

We bank at Wells Fargo, and they also hold both of our mortgages (first and second). I talked to them a few months ago, and they said they had so much NEW mortgage business they were swamped. Why? Because so many other banks were going under. I mean, they just bought Wacovia, for godsakes!

They are not hurting a bit. Why in the world did they get this money???!

[glinda]

19. They were told THEY HAD TO TAKE IT

even though they declined the money when they were asked to fly to the BIG meeting. They were told "better take it now or else risk not getting any help in the future if you are in trouble".

[happygoluckytoyou]

26. and better party like its 1999 BECAUSE WE MAY BE BROKE IN 2010

[DRoseDARs]

52. I know. It's my understanding they stayed away from the subprime nonsense, viewing it as The Plague.

However, they don't exist in a bubble so if the industry as a whole falters, then they'll feel the drag too. I've no idea why they were forced to take the money and threatened to not get any in the future if they refused now and DID need it in the future.

[grasswire]

57. I thought citibank bought wachovia (eom)

[PBS Poll-435]

59. They tried

:snicker:

[DRoseDARs]

64. ...and failed. They wanted govt $$$ to do it, WF paid with their OWN cash thank you very much.

I'll cut them a little slack on this "controversy" since they didn't want the $25B in the first place and stayed away from the bad loans shell game.

[PBS Poll-435]

75. Exactly

:yourock:

[Winterblues]

13. I am not sure I believe this at all.

Well Fargo is quite Healthy and was not in any need of Federal money. They just bought out Wachovia and have a five star rating.. I think this is a BS news story.

[Kensan]

27. Believe it.

It is precisely because Wells Fargo acquired Wachovia that they could tap into the TARP funds. Wachovia was a distressed bank, and now Wells owns the "toxic assets" that were previously on Wachovia's books. It's really quite simple if you follow the horrible logic behind the bailout.

First, buy a distressed bank. Second, hold out your hand for TARP money due to having to service/write-down bad loans. Third, use the TARP money to acquire further distressed banks (and ask for more TARP money). You have now become "too large to fail" yourself, and can dictate terms down the road. Fourth, any remaining money apparently is earmarked for the corporate junket that was "promised" to eligible employees before the financial sector meltdown. No way the company could cancel the junket now, right? I mean Wells promised them an all expense paid vacation on the company's dime. A large corporate employer would never, ever not fullfil committments made to employees.

Now the real kicker is that Wells Fargo gets another break, and that is they probably won't pay a dime in taxes this year. The bailout legislation included a special provision, just for banks, that repealed Internal Revenue Code (IRC) Section 382. That section applied limitations on an acquiring company's ability to use a target's tax attributes (net operating losses) to offset its own income. So Wells will use Wachovia's losses to offset its income this year with no limitation at all. This was reported briefly (I think one day in the news cycle) and never mentioned again. I haven't read through the legislation, but I wouldn't be surprised if Congress applied the same break to IRC 383 which deals with tax credits. Wachovia was infamous for doing tax shelter transactions involving the sale and lease (SILO) of foreign infrastructure projects (sewers, transit, etc) and taking massive foreign tax credits against its U.S. taxes. There's bound to be a few credits rolling around that Wells can use to its advantage, as well.

[chad78]

33. not quite...

Kensan-
You continue to avoid the fact that Wells Fargo adamently tried to avoid taking any funds from the Bailout program. The funds that they were forced to take, they will be paying back, with interest. So the taxpayers aren't getting screwed by Wells Fargo. In fact, the government will come out on top after the interest is collected.

The trip that Wells Fargo apparently has planned is obviously being paid from the company's own funds, as they clearly have the liquidity to reward the people in their company that have helped them become one of the most profitable and stable companies in the industry. The company has the money to do this, and still pay the healthiest dividend in the banking industry to it's shareholders...what's the big deal?

[Kensan]

56. It's not that simple

I agree that Wells is a profitable bank, and actively avoided making sub-prime loans. There are several banks that are still healthy because they did follow standard loan procedures, and didn't try to cut corners in their loan departments. So yes, Wells certainly had the money to pay for this junket even before taking the TARP funds.

That being said, the issue with Wells not wanting to take the TARP money in the first place isn't as benevolent as you make it seem. Wells purchased Wachovia for specific reasons, knowing that they were acquiring assets at fire-sale prices. That decision did not happen in a vacuum. Wells didn't need the money to make the acquisition, but that was never really the concern. They didn't want to dilute their existing stockholders' ownership (and let's face it...the value of their stock options). Paulson spelled it out for them...ask for the money now while it's on the table and available (and Bush is still president) or you may not get it later.

So let's consider their options. If the acquired assets recovered value from their fire-sale prices, Wells makes a ton of money on the investment and everyone's happy. If the assets don't recover, and Wells doesn't have access to the bailout money (no funds left, new admin with new restrictions, etc.) the deal loses a lot of its appeal. It might still be beneficial, but the reward isn't going to be what they hoped for. At the prevailing interest rates, why wouldn't you take the money? They have been able to keep above the fray during this mess, so they seem to know how to do business. The TARP funds will allow them to ensure their is a built-in profit on the deal. The shareholders will still get their dividend checks, and if Wells does make a lot of money on the deal the stock price will bounce back.

Let's face it, the reaction to the junket at this point is all about perception. It seems excessive, which is why Wells is taking heat. Given the general economy, spending lavish amounts of money on a small percentage of their employees just gives bad PR right now. Especially bad if your concerns about taking the bailout money were "maximizing shareholder returns". Could a 5-day trip to Vegas have been enough to reward top performers, instead of 12? How much time is needed to visit every gentlemen's club anyway?

I think you have valid points, but I think this is a situation where Wells is fighting a battle of public perception at a critical time in our country. Managment could have scaled back the celebration a little, and still rewarded its top people. It would have been more prudent...losing the battle (internal employees take a cut in the largess of the junket) to win the war (public perception).

Of course, since Congress doesn't seem to want to really get its hands dirty when it comes to banks, Wells is free to do what it wants anyway. If the public doesn't really like it, you can do your banking at one of the other three "too enormous to fail" banks that will be left standing after the industry implodes.

[chad78]

61. misconceptions...

The trip was not going to be 12 days. Each group was given a 3 night trip. There were 4 separate business lines that were rewarded with these trips. No one was receiving a trip more than 3 nights.

Wells Fargo had already posted the high bid for Wachovia when they attempted to refuse the TARP Funds, so that too is not quite "spot-on". They needed absolutely no money whatsover from the government to buy Wachovia, and your interpretation is incorrect that they took it for that reasoning.

This is essentially the same thing as dumb individuals raising hell over Bill Gates spending millions of his own money to purchase a yacht. Is it impractical, yes. But he has the money to do it, so who gives a shit? Anyone that thinks that Wells Fargo is spending "their money" on this trip is crazy.

[Lucky Luciano]

44. Your logic does not hold up - WFC was already too big to fail

before buying WackyBank. As others have alluded to, WFC was pressured to take the money, but they did not really need it. Their saving WackyBank was important for stemming systemic risk, so any money they got for that should not be considered their fault or bad management - they also raised $11B by selling stock for $27 per share in early November - very few banks are healthy enough to sell equity these days, but they were. USB is pretty good too.

[Kensan]

66. You are correct...but

I was just making a general point about how bailout funds have been used. Of course Wells was already a huge bank, so it already fit into the "the too large to fail" mold. But several are hording the bailout cash for acquisitions because it can be extremely profitable for them. If you are a healthy bank now, you can really pick and choose your spots and acquire assets for a fraction of their cost and leverage bailout funds to do it. The industry will be even more consolidated afterwards. I used to joke back in the early 90's when I did work on the RTC loan portfolios that somewhere down the road we were going to end up with only BofA and Wells left. That was supposed to be a joke, not a premonition.

[Mari333]

14. ANYONE ELSE FUCKING SICK OF THIS SHIT

i dont usually print in caps but
I AM SICK OF THIS SHIT. ITS ONE PER DAY.

OH AND heres a little information about the chairman of wells fargo..hes a goooood little republican who still thinks he can screw whomever he wants to like he has for the last 8 yrs..

'Besides Wells Fargo, Kovacevich is a director of Cargill, Inc., Cisco Systems, Inc., and Target Corporation. He is also vice president of the board of governors of the San Francisco Symphony, vice chairman of the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, and a member of Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's California Commission on Jobs and Economic Growth, the National Infrastructure Advisory Committee, and the Financial Service Roundtable.

In the political realm, he has been a member of Pete Coors for Senate, Romney for President, the National Republican Congressional Committee, and the New Leadership for America Political Action Committee.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Kovacevich

[PBS Poll-435]

51. ROFL

:rofl:

GRAB A FUCKING PITCHFORK!!!!111!!!11

[diamidue]

88. Are there ANY bank CEO's who are not GOP?

WF is more than it's CEO. For one thing, I remember when Focus on the Family dumped (and boycotted) WF because Wells Fargo supported gay rights. WF did not back down. I also believe they contributed pretty much the same to both political parties.

I think that this trip of theirs to Las Vegas is very ill-advised under the circumstances tho.

[tridim]

15. I'm still pissed at Wells Fargo for not approving my car loan two years ago..

When I have nearly perfect credit and banked with them for years. I've never missed a loan payment my entire life, yet I'm apparently a huge risk for a $6000 loan? Whatever Wells Fargo.

[denverbill]

17. Maybe they are trying to win back the bail-out money for us. n/t

[Beam Me Up]

20. When did Wells Fargo receive "25 billion in bail out money"? News to me.

I bank w/ Wells Fargo. In fact, my last name is Wells.

[KamaAina]

39. It must have to do with their recent buyout of Wachovia

Banks and other fat cats using the bailout money to fund yet another round of Merger Mania ia another pet peeve of mine. :grr:

edit: caps

[vinylsolution]

21. Hit back at Wells Fargo....

.... if you have an account there, close it and move it somewhere else.

It IS the rich vs. the rest of us, but always remember, there are a lot more of us....

[PBS Poll-435]

53. That is not what this story is about.

Trust me. This is not about rich vs. poor at all.

[Zorra]

22. Obviously, the finance industry needs Xtreme oversight. These people are wasteful pigs.

Regulate, regulate, regulate, and watch them like hawks.

[Magleetis]

24. When you are rich

and connected there is no such thing as failure. I keep hearing Carlin saying "its a big club and you're not in it" So true.

[chad78]

28. fact-check...

The writer of this story fails to mention that Wells Fargo fully declined any and all bailout money. They were told that they absolutely had to take the $25 Billion, and also had to pay it back, with interest. This was more of a stimulus to the government than a stimulus to Wells Fargo. The Bank is the only AAA rated bank in North America, and they are an extremely healthy bank, as compared to it's competitors. People actually believe that Wells Fargo is spending the government's money for these trips. Who cares what large corporations, or individuals for that matter, spend money on, especially when they can afford to do it??? I don't want to be argumentative, but the facts just don't check out on this one...

[Phx_Dem]

32. Yep. Wells Fargo pays $371.5 million in dividends to TREASURY DEPT.

Wells Fargo just paid a huge dividend to the Treasury dept. What other banks is still paying dividends? And how much have they paid to the Treasury?

WFC said Monday it will pay the U.S. Treasury a dividend of $371.5 million on Feb. 15. The dividend stems from the bank's Fixed Rate Cumulative Perpetual Preferred Stock, Series D, that Wells Fargo recently sold to the Treasur

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B03D8B8EE-EC19-44F9-8740-9840B59C53D1%7D&siteid=yhoof2

[alcibiades_mystery]

30. LBN Rules...please post actual headline

[Phx_Dem]

31. And so are you . . . clueless. Get the facts before you smear.

Wells Fargo did not want this money and did not ask for it. It was forced on them by Paulson with veiled threats of retaliation.

Wall Street Journal:

During the discussion, the most animated response came from Wells Fargo (WFC) Chairman Richard Kovacevich, say people present. Why was this necessary? he asked. Why did the government need to buy stakes in these banks?

After Mr. Kovacevich voiced his concerns, Mr. Paulson described the deal starkly. He told the Wells Fargo chairman he could accept the government's money or risk going without the infusion. If the company found it needed capital later and Mr. Kovacevich couldn't raise money privately, Mr. Paulson promised the government wouldn't be so generous the second time around.

http://www.zimbio.com/CEO+Dick+Kovacevich/articles/119/Wells+Fargo+Forced+TARP+Plan

USA Today:

When U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson laid out his plan to invest in Wells Fargo at a meeting last week, Kovacevich protested because he didn't think his San Francisco-based bank should be forced to sell stock that might dilute other shareholders, according to published reports in The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal.

Wells Fargo so far has been able to avoid the staggering losses that have hit other major banks stemming from risky home loans made to borrowers with shoddy credit records or inadequate income to repay the debts after real estate prices began to plunge last year.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2008-10-22-876661689_x.htm

[KamaAina]

40. What if a whole bunch of homeless people showed up for some free eats?

Well, a guy can dream...

[Arkansas Granny]

43. When I click on your link it says that Wells-Fargo has cancelled the trip.

Did they change their minds?

[nostalgicaboutmyfutr]

45. It was cancelled - the OP was more interested in inciting a riot....EOM

[DRoseDARs]

54. "the OP was more interested in inciting a riot" This is pure hyberpole and libelous too. n/t

[Robb]

49. Yes. The Rocky Mountain News has updated their story at the link

...to reflect a WF spokesperson apparently calling to tell them they had.

[MNLeftie]

46. Check the facts

This headline is misleading. WF did not want the money. On top of that, if you read the article, they're CANCELING their planed "junket".

WF is probably the most well run bank in America today. Exellent profits, and were NOT a major player in the sub prime loan mess.

This is not a very good DU post!

[maddezmom]

47. good looks like they've reconsidered taking the trip, but this article is misleading

At least to me. The original TARP money wasn't really a bailout, it an exchange for stock.

~snip~
The bankers don't relish being part of TARP because the program is viewed by the public as a bailout for troubled financial institutions.

"TARP's a misnomer," said Ken Wilcox, chief executive of SVB Financial Group, a Santa Clara bank that took $235 million from the program. "You have to be a healthy bank to get the TARP money."

The funds were handed out starting in mid-October in exchange for preferred shares of stock. The shares give taxpayers an ownership stake in the banks and will pay the Treasury 5 percent for five years, producing a probable profit on the deal.

Of the $178 billion doled out so far, $145 billion went to 20 large banks, and the rest was shared by 188 mostly smaller banks that got millions rather than billions.

Although this wasn't what TARP was originally intended for, it wasn't a bad idea, said Darrell Duffie, finance professor at the Stanford Graduate School of Business. "It was probably more effective in terms of increasing financial stability" than buying up subprime loans, he said. "Every dollar on a bank's balance sheet can be used to make more than a dollar's worth of loans."

Capital dried up

And something had to be done quickly. As the economy cratered, bank-to-bank lending dried up and access to capital in the open market had "largely disappeared," the American Bankers Association reminded Congress last week. Loan losses eroded some banks' capital positions, and private capital was unavailable. Without the capital purchase program, lending could have sharply declined, the ABA said.

more: http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews/articleid/2964520

[davefromqueens]

48. It's been class warfare for 40 years

Republicans have been engaging in class warfare against the middle class for 40 years (actually longer)

They take from the middle class and give to the richest 1 percent. Time to take our money back that was stolen from us.

[PBS Poll-435]

50. I DON'T FUCKING CARE ABOUT THIS STORY

It is misleading at best. This is not a "Fat-cats on private jets" story. Wells Fargo takes care of its best and brightest.

Wells Fargo has recognition events for it's employees and its executives. Way more "every-day" employees benefit from these trips.
A teller making $9.00 an hour can be treated to a 3 or 4 day TAX FREE Las Vegas vacation because of hard work and dedication to the customer.

Everyone department in the company is eligible to be recognized. From Security to IT to the Secretary/Admin Assistant to a investment broker.


As far as the bail-out money goes, Wells Fargo didn't really need to take it, but they did. They are the strongest Financial Services company in the world, bar none.

[KakistocracyHater]

58. BY CHASING THE WORLD'S CHEAPEST WORKERS

CORPORATIONS ARE SHRINKING THEIR OWN SELL-TO BASE.

I just read about how the British are pissed because the CEOs are bringing in Portugese & other foreingers. Italy is bringing in Polish workers & others in America they are bringing in those south of our border. Iraq "subcontracted" & imported south Asian workers instead of Iraqis.

They have synchronized this on the golfing greens. So far the natives of each country are made to look racist when they get angry about getting bumped for lower paid foreign workers. Falling quality of life ensues, but even more important is the fact that these dumb-ass corps. are selling less & less of their own product & too stupid/really arrogant about this fact of life.

[chad78]

63. seriously? REALLY? Seriously??

what in the world does this have to do with the topic???

[KakistocracyHater]

69. you're 1 of them

stfu

[chad78]

74. you're back??? why?

what in the world does your post have to do with the topic at hand? If you want to cry about closing the borders, start your own thread...

[Hansel]

67. The government bought Wells Fargo stock

Wells Fargo did not want the "bail-out" money and none was "given" to them. They sold stock in exchange for $25 billion. The paperwork is on the government's website.

Yes they bought Wachovia, but they sold stock to do it and they save that bank and 10 of thousands of jobs in the process. Wells Fargo is not a company that is keen on layoffs and will only do so as a last resort. Severance packages are not based on rank in the company, they are based on years of service. The lowest level employee can get up to 18 months of pay depending on how long they have been there.

Wells Fargo is the most stable bank in America and is the only American bank rated in the top 10 for stability. It's stock has been rated AAA for years, although it got a minor downgrade because of Wachovia being such a crap bank. This is still not junk stock. The government will make their money back and then some. That is if these fact challenged stories stop getting media play.

Sub-prime loans are a minor part of Wells Fargo's mortgage portfolio even though it is one of the biggest mortgage companies in the U.S. They have bought bundled loans that included sub-prime loans, but they sell relatively few of them. That is why the company is still so strong.

As far as these junkets, they are offered to all of their top performing employees from tellers making $18,000 a year to their top sales people. Wells Fargo believes in rewarding their people for performance. Oh, shame on them.

I think the story is hyperbolic and I wouldn't put Wells Fargo in the same class as some of these other institutions. Arrogant is not a word I would use to describe Dick Kovacevich. He is well respected and regarded by most of the people who work at Wells Fargo. By the way, Dick Kovacevich is the board chairman, not the CEO. John Stumpf is the CEO and has been for a year. Wonder who has the ax to grind with Kovacevich because usually the CEO takes the heat for this stuff. There is something very fishy about this story. And I'm guessing it has to do with the former employee mentioned in it.

[PBS Poll-435]

79. Thank you

Best post on the thread.

:thumbsup:

[primavera]

91. I confess I don't understand why they would do that

I mean, aren't there enough troubled institutions begging for bailout monies that we don't need to be sinking public monies into companies that don't need assistance? But, since, for whatever strange reason, the government did buy stock in Wells Fargo, is there any law against them doing so? And, if the government is a shareholder like any other, shouldn't they have a voice in the operations of the company, just like any other shareholder? It doesn't seem fair to say that Wells Fargo can claim aggrieved status simply because somebody bought their stock - they're a publicly traded company, their stock is for sale, live with it.

[Hansel]

94. If the government is just buying stock in Wells Fargo

then they need to stop implying it is a bailout.

They may have a voice, but no, they do not get to tell them how to run their operations. They have a right to elect the board. They certainly don't have the right to destroy the reputation of a successful and well run company by pretending that Wells Fargo asked for bailout money and then had a party on it. Wells Fargo did not need, want or ask for the money. The government's decision to buy triple A rated stock in Wells Fargo is an investment and if they don't end up destroying the company, it will be a profitable investment. It's not like they bought toxic assets to get Wells Fargo out of a hole they dug themselves into.

Wells Fargo would have been perfectly fine without Uncle Sam and by the looks of it, they would have been better off. Wells Fargo is a conservative bank and their employee's pay all of the way up through the top is on the lower end to mid-range of the pay scale for a financial institution. If they splurge on their employees once in awhile to show some appreciation for making it a successful corporation, so be it. Maybe this is part of the reason they are successful. And maybe the government coming in and interfering with a successful business formula is counter-productive.

When Wells Fargo is forcing toxic assets onto the government because they screwed up the company through corrupt and idiotic business practices, then people can start scrutinizing them. Until then, everyone should put the pitch forks away and watch how a successful company runs.

[phleshdef]

68. Shit. These guys own my mortgage. I pay them in full and more every month.

[Omaha Steve]

71. Wells Fargo is owned by Berkshire Hathaway

http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/

Also known as Warren Buffet (Democrat) and company.

[chad78]

72. I hope you don't mean that Buffet actually owns the company, entirely...

Buffet is a stockholder...but nothing more.

[PBS Poll-435]

77. He owns about 7% of Wells Fargo's outstanding common stock

[WriteDown]

100. They own 7%.....

I guess I own GM and IBM with my .000001%. Haha.

[Inkyfuzzbottom]

78. Holy Crap

this shit needs to STOP. There's a new one every day. :mad: Between this and all the cabinet nominees being tax evaders I'm really getting pissed off. Why the fuck do we work and pay our taxes?

[RadiationTherapy]

81. BAAAAHHAHAHAA! This cracks me up; I love it.

Let them show the truth. Capitalists can have as much rope as they want to fucking hang themselves with their pathetic PR and sense of entitlement to the world's resources.


I swear we are going to be invaded in the near future because we refuse to adapt our selfish, disgusting, piggish consumerism even the slightest bit.

i hope SUV sales are up!

[benld74]

82. 1st AIG, then BOA, now this. Pile it high, deep and smelly

[PBS Poll-435]

83. AIG and Merril Lynch/Countrywide (BOA) failed

Wells Fargo is the strongest bank in the US. (They make $, and a lot of it)

[riderinthestorm]

85. Some banks were forced to take TARP $ in order to create a smokescreen for poor performers

as I understand it.

Wells Fargo was one of those who was forced to take TARP $$ in order to obfuscate which banks were/are on the brink of disaster in order to forestall economic panic amongst the industry and the populace.

While I concede the point that Wells Fargo is healthy, and should reward it's top performers, it's incredible that nobody at that organization read the nation's "mood" towards bonuses these days.

I mean, this was a no-brainer that there would be major shit flying about Vegas junkets by any bank.... There's other ways to quietly reward top performers without hitting a major resort with all the bells and whistles (literally) ringing nationwide.

[PBS Poll-435]

86. .

[tide72]

93. It's time to nationalize these banks...

we,re going to sooner or later so why waste any more taxpayer money??

[BrightKnight]

96. Would you still want them nationalized with Repugs in charge? - n/t

[nolabels]

101. The way it's been going it doesn't seem like it would make that much difference

One might also note they stick all types of criminals in the same prisons without seeing much difference

[4_TN_TITANS]

98. Perfect timing....tks for the post!

The wife and I are about to approach them on refinancing our mortgate. It will be a treat to hand over a copy of this article to the loan officer while negotiating our terms. :rofl:

[harun]

99. I thought Wells Fargo was supposed to be one of the healthiest

banks during this mess. What they hell did they take 25 billion for?

[PBS Poll-435]

103. They were forced to

The Feds didn't want a run on all the other banks and all the deposits going to Wells Fargo.