Foreign workers could be barred from entering UK

[Jeep789]

Source: Guardian

Jacqui Smith's aim 'to put British workers first' reflects impact of economic downturn

Alan Travis
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 22 February 2009 13.33 GMT
Article history

New measures to bar tens of thousands of foreign workers from outside Europe coming to work in Britain as the recession bites deeper were outlined by the home secretary, Jacqui Smith, today.

The package includes possible moves to prevent the families of skilled migrants working in Britain and restricting skilled migrants to taking jobs only in occupations with shortages.

It represents a significant tightening of the new Australian-style points-based immigration system only four months after its introduction last November in the face of mounting "British jobs for British workers" protests and fears that the far-right British National Party, will win seats for the first time in June's European elections.

The government has already banned the legal movement of unskilled economic migrants from outside Europe to Britain and the package outlined by the home secretary represents the first move to cut the number skilled migrants coming to work.



Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/22/immigration-limits-jacqui-smith

[FreakinDJ]

1. This sounds interesting - "points-based immigration system"

and could easily be used to improve protecting workers from H1B visas

[harmonicon]

3. the points-based system is total crap, and may be why I get kicked out of the UK in a year

In some areas I score huge points, but in others I have none, because I'm a student at a university here. I'll get massive points for having a PhD from a UK university, but not enough for me to be able to stay and get work because I have no income; the higher your income, the more points you get. It's completely backwards thinking. They want people from UK universities, but not directly out of their universities? Yeah, thanks a lot, shit heads. Give me money to get an education, and then kick me out of the country so that you get no benefit from funding my degree. This stuff pisses me off. Being an immigrant in another country has given me a much more sympathetic view for all immigrants in all countries. I want to make the best life that I can for myself, where ever that may be. Now, because of where I was born, I may be kicked out of the country that has been my home for years, removed from a community which I am an active member of, and cast aside just like so much garbage.

[FreakinDJ]

5. Can't be as Bad as the System we have

It only allows people of "No Education" (often illiterate by 3rd world standards) to come into this country illegally to await the next amnesty program where by they can gain legal status. And only immigrants from 1 country sharing our southern boarder.

Hardly a system at all

[harmonicon]

7. yes, those are the ones you hear about I guess

Lots of immigrants are like me - highly educated people. I have friends in the US originally from Canada, Ireland, Germany, India - lots of places, including Mexico. The point is, nothing should be "illegal" when it only comes to looking for a job, family, community, etc. - the idea of controlled borders for things other than things like food inspection is ridiculous.

[marksmithfield]

19. But crossing our border without permission

(green card) is illegal whether you agree or not. Sealing the borders and stopping the flow of illegal aliens is an imperative if we expect our economy to ever recover. Integrated cooperation between INS and police departments will help. Good for Britain they need to fix their economy, and took a step in the right direction.

[harmonicon]

20. what you say is not in the least bit true

Crossing the border without a green card is illegal? WTF?!?! No one goes on vacation? No one visits relatives? I'm in the country were I live very legally. If I stay here after my visa runs out, I suppose I will have broken some sort of arbitrary law that says that one person has more dignity than another just because of where they happened to be born or what country their parents were citizens of. Complete B.S.

Also - and it pains me to have to point this out - "illegal aliens" don't magically appear and steal existing jobs from those who are "citizens" based on luck. People will go where they can get jobs. Do you think there are a lot of people moving to the US to become homeless? If you don't like immigration, blame the bosses. The worker is never the enemy, unless you are a member of the ruling class working only to exploit the worker and profit from their toil. Immigrants and labor are what built the US. What do you have against them? Do you think the country would magically run off of silver spoon power? I don't.

[marksmithfield]

23. Uhhh yeaaah you will have broken some

arbitrary law that was put in place to keep people from overstaying their visa. In a lot of country's they don't fool around with that either. Whether you like it or not, we are a nation of laws, you might want to read up on the law where you are. I would love to see the stats on how many people are crossing our border to go "on vacation" and if "The worker" is here without a green card he is the enemy. A lot of the people crossing illegally into California are there to take advantage of all the giveaways that have crippled the California economy. You may love the vision of a world without borders, but as a natve of the southwest, I can tell you we need those borders, and they need to be secured!

[harmonicon]

26. I know the law where I live

I also lived in southern California for many years. You think my friends from there who came to the US when they were children because their parents brought them with them looking for work should be kicked out of the country? Don't you see how inhumane that is? Even if you do, and you're simply worried about the economic aspects of immigration, your failure to grasp the actual causes for the current economic problem is staggering. How much money do you make a year? Half a million? Otherwise, you are working class, and these people that you call the enemy are your allies - the wealthy couldn't care less about either of you and will steal from you and cheat you to the last.

[Chulanowa]

21. Oh, that is so fucking full of it

Just absolutely, so-dumb-it-makes-my-brain hurt full of bullshit.

Our current economic woes are the result of nearly twenty years of unrestrained and unhindered Republican economic policies paired with the fat cat plutocrats and oligarchs who exploited these GOP rules to the maximum. So here we sit, watching the treasury hemorrhage money to keep these fat-assed cheese-eating pasty-colored maggots well-fed on the carcass of the American public. meanwhile the people who created the situation in the first place have lifelong benefits and security details, draining more money, and are currently taking speaking tours that rake in a thousand bucks a head.

And you're going to tell me it's the people from Mexico picking strawberries and mopping floors that are the thing we need to get rid of if our economy is going to recover?

Show me an illegal Mexican immigrant running a Fortune 500 company into the ground while still getting federal bailouts, and then maybe I'll consider your inane drivel to be anything more than the bait that it truly is.

[marksmithfield]

25. You are right! the Fortune 500 companies have driven us into

the ground. But as a construction worker for 30+ yrs in AZ I know first hand that the illegal problem is huge and drives down wages terribly. Up until the crash of the housing market, we were literally overrun by illegal aliens, and now you must fight them for the few remodeling jobs out there. At least my inane drivel is fact based thank you. The illegal problem has just about bankrupt the border states, with hospitals closing, schools overflowing, and social services drained. Look no further than the financial problems California is having. The economic situation in Mexico is not our problem, if the people there are hungry they need to change things in mexico, not sneak into our country in the dead of night.
We are about to go through a shit storm here and need EVERY job filled by American citizens. Standing in solidarity with the "immigrant worker" is all fine and dandy, but this is a new reality and there just isn't enough to share with those that choose to break our laws and help ruin our local economies.

[harmonicon]

28. who sets those wages?

Your enemy isn't the man who is so desperate that he will work for less. Your enemy is the boss who could care less about your community, your standard of living, and immigration law, which you seem to take so seriously. Don't blame the person who wants to eat. Blame the person who wants to get fat by spending less money to get the same amount of work done. If people were forced to pay everyone the same wage, immigration would stop dead in its tracks until there were more jobs than able-bodied Americans to take them.

[MellowDem]

30. That's already the case

Businesses already are forced to pay everyone who is documented a certain wage level. It's the undocumented part that is messing it up. And that will only stop with a saner border policy.

[harmonicon]

33. how does that add up?

There isn't some law that says you can pay an undocumented worker less than a documented worker. Your reasoning is flawed. It is not the undocumented thing that messes anything up, it is the willingness of employers to base everything on "lowest cost wins every time, everything else be damned".

[MellowDem]

34. No, however, there are laws

that make it illegal to employ undocumented workers, which are rarely enforced, which encourage businesses who hire undocumented workers to not have to follow labor laws and guidelines so they can make a bigger profit.

The only reason this happens is the combination of the undocumented workers and the companies willing to exploit them. It's both their faults, not one or the other. We should work against both. That means enforcing labor laws, which we really don't, when it comes to undocumented workers, and funding an incredibly underfunded border patrol.

You can't solve one and solve the whole thing. We have to solve both sides of the issue.

[harmonicon]

39. there aren't two sides to the issue, and that's why trying to look at it that way...

... makes an attempt at resolution doomed to failure. This is how it's always worked: the powerful divide up the poor and unpowerful and set them against each other. How could you blame the undocumented worker if they kept applying for jobs and kept being turned down? This type of immigration would grind to a halt if the labor laws were enforced, plain and simple. Don't blame a desperate man for trying to live. You will never win against desperation. There will always be someone more desperate. It doesn't matter what type of border patrols you have, people will always get past them.

[MellowDem]

40. Look at it this way...

I agree with you about immigrants and desperation. I don't blame them for doing what they do, but that doesn't mean it's right or not part of the problem. What the immigrants are doing is natural, but it is no more noble or "correct" than the corporations that exploit them. Because, like immigrants naturally want work, owners of capital will naturally try to get the most profit. And these desperate workers will willingly supply them with that work, even knowing that they are disenfranchising others and lowering labor standards for Americans. I don't see that as any more noble than what the corporations are doing.

Basically, you are ennobling the immigrants, reflecting some myth that has grown in America about immigrants, "salt of the earth" people that can't be blamed for they only are doing what any one else would do, right? You might as well do the same for the corporations. After all, the corporations take in these needy immigrants and gives them standards of livings that they never would have imagined back home and starts them off on the American Dream! See what I mean?

Both are breaking the law at the expense of the American worker, quite knowingly and in concert with each other. It is neither the immigrant's or corporation's malicious intent to do so, but they willingly accept this side effect to mutually help each other. And of course, we realize there are corporations out there who do follow regulations and won't employ undocumented workers when given the opportunity. And we know of immigrants, very desperate and poor indeed, who are trying to get in the legal way.

[harmonicon]

41. wanting a profit is not natural

Capitalism is not a part of nature, it is the single most vile human invention. Its only function is exploitation. Capitalism is the inherent evil in this system. To equate people wanting to provide for themselves and their families to people wanting to make a profit, for profit's sake, makes no sense to me. That's like saying "wanting a Mercedes is natural." Well, it's not natural. It's a cultural construct, where as wanting a house, food, and healthy children is natural.

I am a legal immigrant in a foreign country. Economics is part of the reason why I'm here. I'm certainly not rich, but I'm also not working for minimum wage + handouts from my family anymore. I actually make enough money to pay my own rent, go out on weekends, etc. It's a poor life, but it's ok. Have you ever been an immigrant? Do you know how it feels? Do you know how it feels to be afraid that if you make the wrong mistakes you could lose your home and your future? Do you know what it is to experience xenophobia first-hand? To be the person to "talks funny"? To have people whisper about your accent when you try to call and rent an apartment? To be treated like shit when you want to open a bank account? To not be able to get a credit card, because, despite having a full-time job, you haven't lived in the country long enough to have established credit? To have to pay extra fees and deposits everywhere you go? People don't immigrate to a new country because it's easy, or to take advantage of things. They immigrate because doing so is better than what they had back home, which often wasn't much at all.

Borders should be open. Human beings are free in mind and spirit, and should also be free in body. Borders are created, not by the meek, but the powerful. "The border" shouldn't even come into consideration for most people - it only exist to entrench power. There is a very real link between the history of the spread of capitalism and the modern nation-state. Neither of these things are "natural".

[MellowDem]

46. I disagree...

the want for improvement, for more, is very natural to humans. It is why capitalism has existed in one form or another since we've been around. We have been bartering for ages. We always are striving to improve our standard of living. That's really why immigrants move elsewhere. I won't assume that all immigrants, illegal or otherwise, come from backgrounds where they don't have the basics. Many do have food and shelter. They just want more than that, they want what they see on the TV, the "American Dream". And yes, that does often mean "taking advantage of" opportunities in another country. I don't think legal immigration has the same consequences as undocmumented immigrants though.

And while I somewhat agree with you in essence about borders, you and I both realize it's not realistic but idealistic. It's like race to me. You can't overcome racism without taking into account race. Well, you can't overcome borders if you don't take them into account and all the things they bring with them. The fact is, there are borders in the world and they do have very real meanings, economically, socially, etc. They can't just be ignored to make them disappear.

But you also have to realize that borders are not recent phenomena, nor unnatural. Many animal species create "borders" and compete over hunting and mating grounds. So did early humans. Dogs "mark" their territory.

[harmonicon]

51. bartering is not capitalism

The two things are entirely different. One is for profit, the other is (or should be) a fair exchange.

[christx30]

42. There isn't a law that says you can

pay illegal workers less, but there are laws that say that illegal workers can't work here in the US. So they have are not willing to risk deportation by going to labor boards to tell them that they are getting paid minimum wage. And the employer knows this and is perfectly willing to exploit it. I don't blame either side less than the other one. I know they want to come here and improve their lives, but we simply can't handle the influx of foreign workers all the time. With more people, we are going to need more hospitals, schools, roads, food, jails, ect. Where is the money for all of that going to come from? With the economy going downhill fast, and taxes going up, a lot of investors and businesses are shrinking their businesses to pay less in taxes. And that will equate to more jobs being lost, and the jobs that are left will be people having to do more with less.
I worked for one of the largest employers in central Texas for over 12 years. The factory I worked at was shut down and we were all laid off. The factory next door was still open, but it was facing competition from another factory in North Carolina that built the same computer systems as them. To make a long story short, a co-worker of mine told me "I would hate to be the efficiency coordinator next door. He is basically responsible for the job market in Central Texas for the next 10 years."
We don't need more workers for less jobs here. We need to find ways to get businesses to invest in our communities so there are more jobs to do. I know I sound like a repuke. but it's true. I'm not arguing less taxes or anything like that. I'm just saying that unless the guys with the money feel safe, they are going to cut costs by going overseas and laying off more people here.

[harmonicon]

44. "We need to find ways to get businesses to invest in our communities so there are more jobs to do."

I agree with this completely, but I don't see how it adds up to not blaming an employer for exploiting a foreign worker. It seems that it's entirely the employer's fault. How much money is spent rounding up and deporting immigrant workers? Lots, and that's the plan - it guarantees a new influx of cheap labor, which benefits the industry. If people in industry or government wanted illegal immigration to stop, all they have to do is arrest the people who have made the illegal hires and fine the shit out of those companies. The way the laws are enforced now, the hiring of undocumented workers for sub standard wages is actually encouraged, I'm afraid. People will stop coming and looking for work when people stop hiring them. Yes, there will be a few exceptions, but it's less costly - and far more humane - than rounding up workers based on racial profiling and rumor.

As for sending jobs off-shore, I think that's quite a different matter. That has to do with all of this "free" trade bullshit..... makes my head hurt.

[christx30]

56. I could not agree with you more

employers that hire illegal workers need to be punished severely. The fine or jail time needs to absolutely crush them, and make them see that hiring the illegals will do a lot more to hurt their profit margin than help it. If I am an employer, I could save $50 a day by hiring an illegal. But if I am caught, it will cost me somewhere along the lines of $1000 a day that they were employed. I know they will fudge their record keeping to try to minimize the damage to their companies, but they will feel the pinch. Not only will they lose their employee, but the guy will end up costing him way more than he helped, and probably encourage him to hire a legal citizen for the job next time.

[Romulox]

32. The wages are set by Supply and Demand.

"Your enemy is the boss who could care less about your community, your standard of living, and immigration law, which you seem to take so seriously."

Homeowners are the boss of the independent contractor. :hi:

[Chulanowa]

29. Illegal immigrants have always been working in the US

Though great economies and through shitty economies, they've always been there, doing the same goddamn jobs they're doing now. To come out and start blaming them for our economic problems - problems caused entirely by Washington and Wall Street - Is just asinine.

Schools are overflowing? Hospitals closing? Social services strained? Maybe all those Republicans in those states should stop spending all that dough on building dumbshit fences and expensive tires for an ineffective border patrol, and start building their states' infrastructures. Hell of an idea, right?

You want to bitch about illegal immigrants taking your job? Bitch about the bosses hiring them. I can't blame the people for coming here looking for work - you say that Mexico's economy isn't our problem, and I think you're full of it. Between NAFTA and the "War on Drugs" we've turned Mexico's economy into a bubbling cauldron of shit. So the people come here looking for work, and are already primed for exploitation by our own treatment of them south of the border, and so make ready low-wage, high-risk workers for the people who would just love to treat you the same. The illegal worker is not the problem here - again, it's washington, and the bosses.

Instead of chucking proverbial rocks at them, get with these Mexicans. Work with 'em. Help 'em realize their rights as workers. It'll do more to help you as an American worker, than pushing and screaming to throw them all out on their asses - People have been trying that for about a century now and it's never worked, so fuck it, try something new. They're in the same boat as you - oftentimes in a worse boat. Regardless of whatever Chris Matthews isolationist protectionism bullcrap you've been filled with, we're not going to do this alone.

[MellowDem]

31. Illegal immigrants are tools

that are being used by big business for cheap labor. Asking some worker who has been disenfranchised by the flooding of the labor market with undocumented workers to "work with them" is real callous and idiotic, not to mention unrealistic. We can't help people realize their rights as workers when they're undocumented. In fact, I'm sure those same workers would stay away from us, for fear of the authorities finding out about their status as they try to get worker's rights.

But that's only part of it. In reality, if all workers were being paid liveable wages, there would be no work for undocumented workers and they'd have to go home anyways. To expect the economy of the US to be able to pay everyone who wants a liveable wage regardless of citizenry is laughable right now in this recession.

Undocumented workers know their role. They know they are disenfranchising American workers and lowering wages. They could care less, they just want what they can get, like every immigrant before them.

Mexico's economy is not our responsiblity, by the way. We are closely linked, but it's Mexico's problem. Or would you say it's Mexico's problem that we have to spend tons of money on border patrols that could be used elsewhere? Or taking care of a massive undocumented population? The Mexican economy's biggest revenue earners are oil, money sent from the US by undocumented and amnestied workers, and tourism. Basically, it's a banana republic, oilgarchy, and cheap labor exporter rolled into one. It's government is incredibly corrupt and incompetent and its infrastructre poor. It has not built up an economy based on anything other than its natural resources (cheap labor included). There is little pressure for change as most of the pressure gets released via illegal immigration. It only does as well as it does because it sits right next to the American economy. It has made those in power there lazy and content with what they have, which is mostly entirely dependant on the US economy. They are now finding out that they should have been investing in their infrastructre and the Mexican people all along, "diversifying" their portfolio, and not putting all their eggs into the US economy.

[pampango]

35. "Illegal immigrants are tools." Aren't we all. My employer thinks I "produce" more than I am paid,

hence I keep my job. We are all "tools" in the economy. If I die tomorrow, my employer will find another "tool" to take my place.

"Undocumented workers know their role. They know they are disenfranchising American workers and lowering wages. They could care less, they just want what they can get, like every immigrant before them."

Yes for centuries immigrants have come to the US with the sole goal of disenfranchising American workers (they or their ancestors having been immigrants themselves). The Irish, Italians, Germans, Hispanics, Asians all gave up cushy jobs at home to immigrate to the US just so they could screw over American workers. (It is, of course, possible, just possible that most of them were poor and thought they had the same "human right" to take a chance at bettering their lives that earlier immigrants possessed.)

Immigrants in the modern world are faced with legal structures that did not exist centuries ago, but human nature has not changed as fast as societies have. The willingness of poor desperate people to take a big chance and try to improve their fortunes in a strange land has not changed even if our ability to build barriers, legal and physical, against them has. Judge them harshly if you must, but they are not that different from previous generations of immigrants - people escaping poverty and oppression.

"They just want what they can get." As opposed to the rest of us who are altruistic saints who have no desire to get "all that we can get". We are all happy with what we make and have no desire to make more money than we do now. Hard to understand these poor foreigners who want to make more than they do now in their home country, isn't? They are so different from us.

[Chulanowa]

36. But they're brown and talk funny! That's the important thing here!

Or so, I'm being led to believe :eyes:

[pampango]

38. I sometimes forget what the "real" issue is.

:)

[MellowDem]

48. I'm led to believe that corporations

love your line of argument. Playing the race card to distract us from their labor practices and to divide us. After all, the only reason one could oppose lowering labor standards is because they're racist! Hell, some of those "brown" people are much whiter than "white" in this country.

[Chulanowa]

49. So tell me.

Where is the bitching about all the illegal Europeans in our economy?

*crickets*

Anyone? Any proposals for a sea wall to keep the Russians the fuck out of Alaska? Increased weaponry to the northern border to keep all the Canucks the fuck out of the Northeast and Great Lakes states? What, no stings to get all the illegal Irish out of Boston by dragging a potato on a string down the street?

Hell, where is your Minuteman ass when it's the Cubans in Miami?

No, it's only the Mexicans, or for the educated elite, the motherfucking Hondurans.

Seriously, you don't think pinning all the blame on Mexican immigrants while both ignoring the many other illegals in this country AND giving a free pass to the people actually responsible for our economy is racist? Well alright man. Whatever floats your boat.

[MellowDem]

50. So tell me, where did I bring up Mexicans...

or describe the illegal immigrants as all "brown". It wasn't me, it was your zealous race baiting brothers in arms. Fucking A, I never pinned any blame on "Mexican" immigrants. And I never said I want to give a free pass to the people who employ undocumented workers.

Shit, all I hear is you screaming 'Racist!' while not caring at all about labor standards. Sounds like corporatists to me.

[MellowDem]

47. I agree with all you said

and disagree with all that you implied I "said".

[marksmithfield]

43. Eloquently put.

The construction trades in AZ were flooded with illegals, it suppressed wages for the past 25 yrs.

[fascisthunter]

52. It Really is about Wealthy Criminals Dividing the Working Class

one day the working class will snap out of it, and these fascist fools?... well, they better hope the working class is forgiving.

[getthefacts]

53. This is bull

Immigration is not a bit responsible for our woes. Let's stop blaming the immigrants and start blaming the idiots who voted to have people like George Bush in office.

[conspirator]

13. I am sorry to hear that. Were are you from? nt

[harmonicon]

17. I'm from the US

That's why I post here. I wanted to still be able to discuss US politics after moving to the UK.

[conspirator]

22. Salaries are good here, but I still think you guys in the US have better life quality

Bigger houses and sunshine.

[harmonicon]

24. hmm.... for the wealthy, I guess

It seems to me that people in the UK have a much greater quality of life. I look at my friends here who are just a few years older than me (mid 30s - early 40s) and they own houses, are married, have multiple children - and every day isn't spent freaking out about how to not lose their house and how to feed their families!! There is no situation where "if dad gets sick, the family might be homeless". These are not rich people. The UK has a real working class, and being working class isn't a shameful thing. I will never be rich with what I do, but I think I have a much better shot at making a decent life for myself and starting a family in the UK than I ever would in the US. When I left the US, I had been working for minimum wage and living with my parents - already having two degrees. At least in the UK someone who works 35 hours a week at any job can afford to rent a flat - and they have health care, which I didn't at that job.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

54. My situation was the exact opposite of yours.

I gained most of my points from experience and income, but I didn't have a degree so I was screwed. If I'd ever bothered to finish my bachelors degree I'd have been fine, but I didn't. I was there on a work permit. Lost my job due to the economic kablooey back in December and had to be out of the country in 28 days.

I totally agree with you on the sympathy for immigrants thing. I find the insensitive comments on here painful to read. I knew the risks full well when I moved to the UK, and I'm not complaining about being asked to leave, but it still hurts like hell to leave all my friends behind.

Best of luck to you in dealing with an extremely unsympathetic Home Office.

[madmom]

2. It's not about protectionism for them, but when the US does or talks about it is IS protectionism?

[Oregone]

4. It can be "sensible" protectionism by any country.

Why allow people to work and do jobs in a market that is saturated with domestic workers? Why allow people to legally subvert a skilled-workers immigration process (H1-Bs)? If you don't * NEED * the labor, why allow its entry?

Until I see valid answer to these questions, I see nothing wrong with not allowing foreign workers a free ride inside. Of course, I'm an embittered tech graduate whose seen the plight of the industry exacerbated by H1-B activity. Maybe I am biased.

[marksmithfield]

27. Some here just don't understand

what it is like to have a job taken by a foreign worker while you are fully qualified and out of work. (and speak the native tongue fluently) There will always be the open borders type that just don't get it.

[chatnoir]

6. "Foreign workers from outside Europe"

Seems like that would be a very small % of foreign workers.

"Put British workers first"

So what will they do about the rest of the EU who have a right to work in any EU member country (UK included)?

[dipsydoodle]

8. It was specifically

non EU.

[chatnoir]

11. I know it was specifically non-EU

But it would just seem that the majority of the foreign workforce in the UK would be from other EU countries? :shrug:

[dipsydoodle]

14. That's correct

but doesn't change the fact that jobs will have to be listed at job centres first and you may also have noticed they'll preclude entry visas to the families of those outside the UK, non EU, who have elected to work here.

It's also worth noticing this bit :

From April, non-EU workers wanting to come to Britain without securing a job beforehand must have a master's degree - rather than a bachelor's degree, as currently - and a previous salary equivalent to at least £20,000.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7904393.stm

[fedsron2us]

9. At least 50% of work permits in the UK are issued to workers from outside the EU

Britain has had a pretty open immigration policy in recent years (more so than than many other parts of Europe) but like everywhere else that is about to change. The points system is loosely based on the Australian model, and in principle is quite rational (the figures are adjusted to take account of labour demand). The rules do not effect EU workers who are free to work in the UK under European law (the issue there is whether they should be entitled to pay taxes on their earnings in the UK in their home country).

Anyway it is going to be pretty meaningless in a few years because as globalization unravels all countries will be slamming their doors to outside workers. Just another sign of the fact that the boom was international but the collapse with all the recessions/depressions will be national.

[chatnoir]

12. Had no idea it was as high as 50%

Years ago when we investigated re-location, British immigration policy seemed only slightly less strict than the rest of Europe, unless you were from the Commonwealth.

Thank you for the explanation.

[dipsydoodle]

15. I don't think they have any choice

on the tax issue. As far as I'm aware there is no provision for them not to be taxed at source, as is everyone in the UK other than self employed etc, unless they go out of the UK for a continous period of 6 months. The tax may be reclaimable but I don't know under what circumstances.

I have a feeling there is however a loophole. It's where foreign workers work in the UK but are paid in their home country.

[morillon]

10. My guess is they're targeting India with that.

They don't want to have happen to them what's going on all over the place in the U.S. A few years ago, the racial mix in my company was pretty much a reflection of the surrounding area -- a mixture of white and black with a very few Hispanics, Asians, and Middle Easterners. Now it's more than 30% INDIAN, most of them on-shore workers with an Indian company.

These guys have no real path for assimilation into our culture. A lot of them aren't even H1Bs. And skilled? Hah. If I needed a replacement for one of them, I could have twenty resumes on my desk from local green card or citizen candidates in 24 hours.

This needs to stop. Now. My company's software applications are in a shambles because most of these guys can't code their way out of a wet paper bag, and the local workforce is being cheated out of decent jobs.

[dipsydoodle]

16. Bingo !

n/t

[chatnoir]

18. Hadn't thought of the India aspect

when reading that article but now after reading your post it does seem likely.

Mr cn, who is in software, has the same thing to say about the programming/coding, btw.

[Lost in CT]

37. And Pakistan and Kenya... now if they could find an excuse

to keep out the Irish. nt

[Veruca Salt]

45. +1

:thumbsup:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

55. What will they do? Bitch incessantly.

And the fact that they *can't* do anything about immigration from the rest of the EU is why the right-wingnut ultranationalists and fascists have been able to (predictably) co-opt the "British jobs for British workers" campaign. But hey, blaming immigrants is the stylish thing to do right now. Pay no attention to the giant clusterfuck caused by financial institutions. No, it's the immigrants. People with no power make easy targets.