Senate will advance torture commission...Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse: "This is going to be big."

[kpete]

Source: Salon

Senate will advance torture commission

Is there a lot America doesn't know about Bush torture policies? There is, says Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse. "This is going to be big."

By Mark Benjamin
Feb. 24, 2009 | WASHINGTON -- The Senate Judiciary Committee plans to move forward with a commission to investigate torture during the Bush administration. Committee Chairman Pat Leahy, D-Vt., told Salon Tuesday that his panel would soon announce a hearing to study various commission plans. His staff said the announcement could come as early as Wednesday.

While Michigan Democrat Rep. John Conyers and North Carolina Republican Rep. Walter Jones drafted a bill to create a commission to review abuse of war powers during the Bush administration, Leahy's Senate commission would represent the first concrete steps toward a broad review of U.S. torture since 9/11.

Spearheading Senate efforts to establish a torture commission is Rhode Island Democrat Sheldon Whitehouse. As a member of both the Judiciary Committee and the Intelligence Committee, Whitehouse is privy to information about interrogations he can't yet share. Still, regarding a potential torture commission, he told Salon, "I am convinced it is going to happen." In fact, his fervor on the issue was palpable. When asked if there is a lot the public still does not know about these issues during the Bush administration, his eyes grew large and he nodded slowly. "Stay on this," he said. "This is going to be big."

Whitehouse admitted he had not discussed the plan yet with President Obama, who has been notably wishy-washy on the notion since taking office. On the one hand, Obama has consistently said that "my administration is going to operate in a way that leaves no doubt that we do not torture." Yet on the other hand, he has insisted that "nobody is above the law, and if there are clear instances of wrongdoing, that people should be prosecuted just like any ordinary citizen; but that generally speaking, I'm more interested in looking forward than I am in looking backwards."

Read more: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/02/24/torture_commission/

[LynnTheDem]

1. Before bUsh, who the f*ck ever thought we'd have a US govt TORTURE COMMISSION

investigating US GOVERNMENT TORTURE POLICIES.

Every once in awhile it just hits me again...how fucking stunningly far that MFer and his republic party have dragged this country down.

[Kablooie]

31. There, you see? Jindal was right. We shouldn't rely on government to do things for us.

At least we shouldn't rely on the government if it is run by Republicans.

[goforit]

39. The 911 commission was a cover to protect Bush, Cheney and the Airforce.

All acomplices to the crime.

So.......as insane as this Torture commission is, This Torture commission may
just be a smoke screen to keep other countries from charging our own criminals.

You see, it will all be just a pat on the hand.

[PSPS]

2. Will the final tipping point will be our raping & murdering of children?

Thanks to bush and his cabal, we've institutionalized sadism.

From Seymour Hersh in 2004: "Some of the worst things that happened you don't know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib ... The women were passing messages out saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened' and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It's going to come out."

From The Telegraph: "a videotape, apparently made by US personnel, is said to show Iraqi guards raping young boys."

From The Guardian: "formal statements by inmates published yesterday describe horrific treatment at the hands of guards, including the rape of a teenage Iraqi boy by an army translator."

From NBC: Unreleased videotapes, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showed Iraqi guards at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison raping young boys. British newspapers have reported that children were tortured under interrogation.

[The Hope Mobile]

7. OMG . . . there are no words.

If I ever wavered for a second on whether we really need to prosecute these guy . . . that was it. We have no choice. That they allowed this makes me want to vomit.

[jmowreader]

29. I don't think they "allowed it," I think it's worse than that

Allowing this merely means they knew it was happening, and did nothing. I think someone at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, probably the guy who turned down a job as a hardware store greeter, TOLD them to do things like this.

Once all is said and done, we may learn that George W. Bush was a dictator who makes Idi Amin look benevolent in comparison.

[SpiralHawk]

35. "Republicon Family Values. Smirk" - xCommander AWOL (R)

[The Hope Mobile]

42. OK - I can totally see him saying "go ahead and torture" but specifically

saying "rape young boys"? How is that helping them in any way? I think that may have been one of those "let's just not talk about it" kind of things. I think even he would've had a hard time squaring that with his professed (albeit totally hypocritical) religious beliefs. Obviously, it being in the news would've been bad for their reputation and made people question the torture policy even more.

[wryter2000]

49. I agree

Still, I think telling them they could do anything they want still makes Bush/Cheney guilty.

This information must come out so the "do anything to keep me safe" 'Murikans have to face their own complicity in the anal rape of children.

[The Hope Mobile]

52. I agree - the fact that they knew about it unquestionably makes them equally guilty

I'm just saying that it doesn't sound like something they would specifically say . . . like "your jos is to do this". I hadn't thought of it being coercive to a parent because I kinda thought the child was the captive. It just sounds/sounded like sick people taking delight in sick things not a technique of any kind.

[jmowreader]

50. Raping young boys is a coercive technique

This is really disgusting to think a president of the United States would order American soldiers to rape Iraqi children...but I think he actually did. "You are authorized to use any and all techniques of interrogation including intense mental and physical distress." I can't think of anything more distressing than to be forced to sit in a room and listen to your son be raped.

[defendandprotect]

14. "Thanks to bush and his cabal, we've institutionalized sadism" --

That's what Nazis do . . .

No matter how much we may have read and heard and imagined about all of these past

atrocities, it nonetheless is startlingly shocking when it begins to come alive again

instigated by our own leaders. And many Americans not believing it - yet you could

feel the truth of it.

Even now as I reflect upon what I used to think of the perhaps secondary characters

playing their roles in supporting Hitler -- the Judges, for instance -- I can now

see a parallel to them in the doctors who aided in softening up these prisoners for

interpreters. Doctors who have carried out unsanitary and cruel forced feedings.

There is only one response as far as I can see . . . either we prosecute the torturers

or we will see their return.

Re the photos and videos -- which I think some members of the House and/or Senate have

seen quite some while ago -- the last I read about them someone was stating with some

knowledge that they were taken in order to be shown to other prisoners to frighten them

into talking. But, again, there is a parallel with this photographic evidence and what

the Nazis did in "recording their history."

[redqueen]

40. It's hard to believe that it's been five years since that came out.

Maybe now, finally, something will be done.

[nakanishi oshi]

3. The mainstream media is going to be madddd!

All the pundits and editorial boards of the corporate MSM are asking for reconciliation and looking forward and blah blah blah.

First the truth. Then, prosecution.

[The Hope Mobile]

6. Welcome to DU!

[DUlover2909]

13. Hi. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[VP505]

30. If only,

I am very concerned that the quest for the truth is going to get in the way of prosecution. Its likely immunity will be offered, which IMO puts people above the law. If the "Truth Commission" has to put people above the law to get truth there is something wrong with the system. A trial is good enough to get to the truth for John or Jane Everyday Citizen, why isn't it good enough for elected public servants?

[struggle4progress]

37. If testimony is voluntary, and witnesses are immunized only insofar as they tell the truth,

then we may obtain an accurate understanding of what has actually happened: there will probably be enough witnesses, who have been ambivalent and uncomfortable about those events, that the events can be reconstructed in detail

Without such an understanding, we cannot take appropriate steps to prevent recurrence; and without detailed reconstruction, it will be extremely difficult to prosecute anyone

If the architects of these policies, and those who implemented the policies without regard with enthusiasm, lie, that will be transparently clear from an adequate record; if they refuse to testify, the reasons for the refusal may also be transparently clear from the record. Moreover, if witnesses are immunized only insofar as they testify and testify truthfully, then parties who fail to testify truthfully would potentially remain subject to prosecution for their crimes

Fifth amendment protections, and arguments over executive authority, are likely to stall and defeat any direct prosecution attempt. Aiming directly at prosecution is also unlikely to produce any meaningful political effects or any useful statutory changes. On the other hand, a well-crafted Commission investigation might create a climate leading to US confirmation of certain international treaties and a clearer legal framework here

Certain important issues may remain unresolved, unless one has some mechanism for shining bright light into this dark story: it would be good to know, for example, exactly what role Jay Bybee, who now sits on the Federal bench, played in the development of the policies in question

[VP505]

41. Look at past performance:

Subpoenas being ignored, hearings that result in a two day news report concluding that "yep, he/she/they, might have/could have/would have/should have.

Then its executive privilege blah, blah, blah. Look forward not back, blah, blah, blah. Congress will be out of secession for a 15 day recess to celebrate a one day holiday, blah, blah, blah.

Too many more important issues, blah, blah, blah. We don't have time blah, blah, blah. Congress will be out of secession for a three month summer break, blah, blah, blah.

As soon as the election is over we'll, blah, blah, blah. Congress will be out of secession for two month for the Holidays, blah, blah, blah.

On and on, who will be held accountable, NOBODY, but rest assured we'll get to the bottom of this, "No Body is above the law", on and on and on some more. Sorry but I can't help but think that this "Truth Commission" will be another sweep it under the rug operation to cover the complicity of certain Members of Congress and ensure that NOBODY is EVER held accountable.

[struggle4progress]

46. There's a long international history of successful truth commissions:

http://www.usip.org/library/truth.html

[zogtheobvious]

48. I'm so tired....

....of hearing that we have to "look forward". The only way to look forward is to learn from the past.

[UpInArms]

4. those horrific criminals cannot be imprisoned soon enough

to make this country emotionally whole again.

That they walk the streets with impunity is too much to bear

[AsahinaKimi]

10. oh man, I totally agree...

For the last eight years its been, we will do what we want, when we want, and screw the world.
I hope the Bush administration pays heavily for the past eight years.

[Idealism]

5. I don't know which is worse:

The United States having a torture commission, Truth And Reconciliation-style, or President Obama getting a standing ovation simply for saying "The United States will not torture ."

[Klimmer777]

8. It is about time! N/T

[salguine]

9. (Snort) Yeah, this'll be big...like a subpoena to Karl Rove. Gimme a break.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

11. Sheldon Whitehouse

has a lot of street cred with me.:patriot: His last big speech was magnificent.

[L. Coyote]

12. Let's go back all the way and look at Reagan/Bush too, esp. the death squads and

not just the torture.

George Bush Sr. May Face Charges: Conspiring to Kidnap and Murder Political Activists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2459135

Like father, like son!

[defendandprotect]

15. This would be such a positive step for America --

and I hope it happens.

Not only that we are willing to hold them accountable but that we are ABLE to hold

them accountable.

[JCMach1]

16. Way to sweep it under the table while throwing the left a bone...

How about appointing a special prosecutor?

[Initech]

17. Open up the flood gates!!!!

Let's make sure these BFEE motherfuckers never achieve power in this country ever again.

[Beam Me Up]

18. We need a 9/11 Truth Commission, too. As horrible as these abuses are

what makes them all unimaginably worse is that elements within the Bush administration were behind the very provocation that excused them.

This country will never move forward until we understand the truth about that day.

[JMDEM]

19. What day? Nov 23, 1963?

[Beam Me Up]

23. You could say that.

They're not unrelated, I'm sure.

[Vehl]

21. things to do before "moving forward"

I agree with what you guys have been saying.

how could we "move forward" and put the past behind us unless we know what it is in the first place. as others have suggested in this thread; the best option would be to create a commission to investigate this and persecute those involved. Americans need to know what happened.

as a person from a country where such travesties of justice are commonplace, the last thing i want to see is America going down the same lane. the government would be heading down a slippery slope if they do not refrain from doing such stuff.a slope that might culminate in dictatorship one day.


ps: this is my first post here
hi all :)

[Beam Me Up]

22. welcome to DU, Vehl

:hi:

Yes, we came startlingly close to a dictatorship with Bush.

Hopefully we will prosecute them rather than persecute them as I have no desire to see any of them made into martyrs.

[Vehl]

24. yes; prosecute, not persecute :)

hey thanks for the welcome

btw..i was going to type "prosecute" but accidentally typed persecute :blush:

[NBachers]

27. That's right- We're still hunting Nazis all these years later

Let's make sure that each and every one of these war criminals gets what they've got coming to them.

We need to scour these vermin from our nation, and the world.

Thanks for your post. Welcome to DU, Vehl!

[JMDEM]

20. Yea right... whatever, dude...

I'll believe it when I see it.

[garybeck]

25. Oh, you mean the "reconciliation and immunity" lovefest is going forward?

how nice. a free "get out of jail card" for anyone who wants to say he thought he was doing the right thing.

[Vehl]

26. yeah thats what they would have us believe:))

and to think that Himmler could not think of such an excuse during the Nuremberg trials... :crazy:


i just cant understand how anyone could say "we should not be persecuted cos we were doing whats right for the country"
:scared:

[lamp_shade]

28. Sheldon Whitehouse spearheading? Excellent!! I'm a BIG admirer.

[Lance_Boyle]

32. How in the hell does one "spearhead" immunity for criminals who tortured?

This "commission" is BULLSHIT of the rankest order. Whitehouse and Leahy and anyone else who supports this get-out-of-jail-free-card FARCE needs to be prosecuted for conspiring to give criminal torturers a free pass. Fuck them.

[SpiralHawk]

33. "No torture in my name." - Jesus Christ

[Wizard777]

34. By all means, "Bring it on." Never mind the putt. Well be watching the Senates drive.

[Javaman]

36. yeah...big.

I'll just wait and see.

remember pig boy has been allowed to ignore yet another subpoena, so why should I get my panties in a bunch over this?

Until there is a trial and conviction, this is nothing more that washington dc dinner theater.

[bluesmail]

38. Maybe this is the result of Sy Hersch's investigative journalism:

He had the names of people who said, Call me Jan. 20th. I may want to talk then.

[Joey Liberal]

43. Republicans=Torture nt

[burythehatchet]

44. I just got aroused

[azmesa207]

45. Torture Commission

I believe it when it end and they arrest Bush and Chaney

[Seedersandleechers]

47. I haven't any faith that we will see any justice regarding

the Bush crime family. Hell, just yesterday Rove got a free pass on testifying, and Obama doesn't seem interested in doing anything about it. I'll just become complacent and depressed the rest of my life. Oh well.

[liberalsince1968]

51. Having a "hearing" to "study" "commission plan" - gee, why do I get the feeling

this is going NOWHERE.

Despite Whitehouse's (what an ironic name, in this instance) "big eyes."