No free lunch: Schools get tough on deadbeats

[HopeHoops]

Source: MSNBC

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - A cold cheese sandwich, fruit and a milk carton might not seem like much of a meal — but that's what's on the menu for students in New Mexico's largest school district without their lunch money.
---
"Every time I eat it, it makes me feel like I want to throw up," the 7-year-old said.

Her mother, Darlene Vigil, said there are days she can't spare lunch money for her two daughters.

"Some parents don't have even $1 sometimes," the 27-year-old single mother said. "If they do, it's for something else, like milk at home. There are some families that just don't have it and that's the reason they're not paying."


Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29385572/

---

You know, with all the billions we've "lost" to Halliburton and other criminal organizations, you would THINK we could at least afford to feed lunch to all of our children whether they can pay for it or not - and a slice of processed American cheese food product on white bread isn't much of a lunch.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

1. TS kid. Your parents shouldn't have bought a house they couldn't afford.

:sarcasm:

[durablend]

21. Yeah--get a job, piker!

Life isn't fair! Don't know who told you different!

:sarcasm:

[WolverineDG]

45. Or should have taken the time to fill out the reduced-fee or free lunch forms

OR paid the bill the first day the kid came home & said "All I got was a cheese sandwich for lunch."

And if they can't do any of the above, they COULD make the kid's lunch themselves.

dg

[mbperrin]

57. So by all means humiliate the child for the parents' failures.

I know that's why I love to pay my school taxes - so small kids can be humiliated right out of the system.

[WolverineDG]

75. It would only be humiliating if they didn't give them anything at all

There is nothing humiliating about a cheese sandwich, which btw, is a whole lot more than some children in the world eat in one week.

If mother of the year was so worried about her kids being humiliated by food, then she should get off her duff & make lunch for them until the paperwork goes through.

dg

[mbperrin]

100. You have no training in child development, do you?

I have 3 decades in the classroom and a master's in education, and I will assure you that all of the children - both those forced to eat the "shame sandwich" and those who witness know well that it is a badge of dishonor.

After all, those stars the Jews had to wear were more stars than most children in the world get to wear in a year. Right?

And I sure do need a link about a cheese sandwich being more food than some children get in a WEEK. "Some say" is a piss poor source.

Of course, if you neither have kids, nor have trained to deal with kids, or even like kids, then punishing kids for their parents' misdeeds may be fine with you.

In most parts of the world, it would be a war crime.

AND I pay fucking plenty of goddamn local and state and federal taxes for every child to receive a meal at school, period.

Especially with all the fatass bankers and stockbrokers and AIG execs and other useless pieces of shit getting BILLIONS of my dollars!

[WolverineDG]

115. Oh dear God

In case you didn't notice, the school district went out of their way to get the parents to either pay up or fill out the forms before giving them the cheese sandwich. :eyes: So if the parents didn't feel compelled enough to do anything for two freaking weeks, don't get mad at me.

The only way this could be humiliating on the part of the school is if they didn't feed the kids at all & made them sit in the cafeteria with everyone else who got a lunch.

As for the starving people remark, ever heard of Darfur? :eyes: Bet no one would bitch about getting a cheese sandwich there.

And sorry, I'm not going to be responsible for lazy-ass parents who can't get off their butts for 2 weeks to fill out a form for a free lunch. If we had the money (which it seems we did locally in the 90s) to give every kid a free lunch, great, but we don't. I've got no problem with people paying their fare share & if their circumstances change, the district does let them know how (& when) to fill out the forms.

dg

[mbperrin]

127. "God". Well, that would explain the "fare" share.

Yeah, Darfur is a typical place, right?

They were pulled out of line and singled out.

Glad you admitted that you have no training or knowledge in child development, and no empathy, either.

That means I can quit worrying about you.

[WolverineDG]

159. Sorry, but I don't think you're entitled to have your kids fed for free

when you didn't follow the rules & ignored calls & letters from the school for two weeks.

dg

[mbperrin]

161. So "Better than Darfur" is the new slogan for our schools.

Kinda catchy.

No one is actually fed for free. Property taxes, state sales taxes, and federal taxes all go into schools, and we all pay them. Homeowners pay property taxes directly, renters pay them indirectly; everyone pays sales taxes except the God folk, and federal income taxes , well, don't get caught not paying them.

We have all paid all of these taxes. I want a child to be fed without humiliation. I've paid for it. Why can't I have it?

[WolverineDG]

186. Because Mommy didn't call the school nt

[Maraya1969]

314. Maybe Mommy was drunk or mentality impaired or can't read. Just

humiliate the child and give him a sub par meal because he had the audacity to be born to these low class parents?

Show a little compassion will you?

[Patchuli]

267. You are wrong.

Children should be fed regardless of whether their stupid parents did what they were supposed to do or not. Period. Children should not be singled out and embarrassed because their parents failed them.

[No Elephants]

155. The parents are not the ones being humiliated, though. The 7 year old is. It's funny that we have

money for everything but a child's lunch. Space programs, bailouts of Bear Stearns, AIG, BankAmerica, et al., wars, mortgage subsidies, etc. For all those, we have unlimited billions. But not a kid's lunch.

[Bill McBlueState]

162. We have unlimited billions for the space program?

I'm not seeing it. :shrug:

-- Signed, a broke-ass postdoc

[Lost in CT]

190. Somebody has been having flashbacks to the sixties again. nt

[barb162]

224. I didn't know that either.

The fact that's it's not true, well, who cares?

[mbperrin]

237. Well, okay, only $17.6 billion for NASA for 2009.

But those cheese sandwiches - OMG - a budget buster!

[Scout]

194. funny that the fucking parents can't be bothered to do what's required

for their children to be properly fed and cared for.

[CreekDog]

281. I think it cost more to separetely make that cheese sandwich than give him the regular lunch

i also think children who need to eat are not "deadbeats" regardless of what anyone thinks of their parents.

[saigon68]

153. They will soon learn how lucrative the Crack Trade is.

When little Jimmy shows up at school wearing a pair of $275.00 Jordan's purchased by his own entrepreneurial efforts as a Drug/police lookout for his older brother

[WriteDown]

315. This is a strange argument....

When I was a kid (several centuries ago :)), when we went on a field trip, we were ALWAYS required to bring a permission slip and often required to bring 4$ to go to a movie, museum, zoo, etc. No permission form or money and you didn't go. Where exactly do you draw the line?

[barb162]

329. Check the mother's web page and vacation trips in post 326

She ( not the school system) is humiliating her own kids. She seems to have plenty of money but can't seem to find money for the kids' school lunches.
http://www.darlenevigil.com/Home.htm

[Name removed]

58. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hulk]

64. Am sorry....but I agree. There needn't be "humiliation" involved.

In my opinion, that's BS. I'm a retired elementary school teacher from Oregon, and I can tell you honestly and sincerely in our "middle class area" where I did most of my teaching, we had some of the elementary schools with 60-75% free lunch...it's the measure they used to determine which schools got Title I funding.

The students don't have to march some complicated form up to the office and be photographed and announced on the PA when they apply for free lunch. It's a VERY SIMPLE form...and the parents can mail it in, walk it in, or send it in with the child and NOBODY has to know about it. The principal reviews and ALWAYS approves either free or reduced lunch....most often free.

This is absolute bull shit. I actually think it's a good idea to help kids not to forget their lunch, and if they can't afford a lunch, to apply for the free lunch that is exactly what all the other kids eat.

[Zhade]

122. THEY'RE HUNGRY CHILDREN -- WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU???

NT!

[WolverineDG]

125. They're not hungry children

Mom was given 2 full school weeks to get the paperwork into the school, during which time they were fed the regular lunch. For free. After that deadline went by, the school gave them cheese sandwiches, milk, and an apple. For free. The school didn't let them go hungry. Mom didn't do her job. It's not the school's fault (nor mine).

dg

[Stellabella]

139. Yes, it is your fault.

It's people like you who are ruining this country with their selfishness and stupidity.

"I did it, so why can't you?" you whine.

You judge and pontificate all the while sitting in your basement acting superior.

BARF.

[WolverineDG]

154. Selfish? Excuse me? I'm not the one asking someone to feed my kids FOR FREE

instead of returning the phone calls from the school & making sure my kids still got a hot lunch. If it was that important to her, she would have done it.

dg

[Zhade]

217. Yes. You're FUCKING SELFISH.

You want to punish kids for their parents' mistakes. It's reprehensible.

[Stellabella]

232. Yeah, he's a real bastion of morality.

NOT.

[woo me with science]

240. You two sound like privileged kids taking their first sociology class.

and getting orgasmic over your own "concern" for the poor. If you believe that it is a good idea to teach children to pity themselves and consider themselves victims because the school district gives them a wholesome lunch, then there is something seriously wrong with you. News Flash: Eating a cheese sandwich is not a badge of shame, and shame on you for suggesting that we send our children the message that it is.

You are a caricature of liberalism...exactly the caricature that Limbaugh et al. love to hold up to show how liberals patronize and infantalize the poor. As though "the poor" could not possibly be expected to do something as complicated as fill out a form or make sure their kids take a sandwich to school. Everybody is a victim to you, and a child will be scarred for life if he or she has to eat a wholesome cheese sandwich. Tell that to the thousands of honest and hardworking poor families throughout history who actually taught their children to be grateful for what they had and who busted their butts to make sure their children got their basic needs met.

The school is doing the right thing here by feeding children a wholesome meal and nudging parents to do what needs to be done. Nobody need be permanently scarred by this experience. In fact, any scarring that occurs will not be caused by the teasing in the lunchroom....It will be caused by the sick message you want to send these children that they should be ashamed of eating cheese sandwiches and must be rescued from that terrible fate. You want to teach them that they are pitiable creatures whose parents cannot possibly be expected to take care of their most basic needs.

I pity what you will teach your own children if they have to live with humble food or clothing at any stage of their lives, if this is how you truly conceptualize this experience. What a horrible message to send to any child and any family, that they will be shamed and broken and defeated by an experience like this, and that you, the great Liberal do-gooder, must leap in and rescue them with pizza. Give me a fucking break.

[mbperrin]

250. The child already wants to throw up due to the reactions of her

peers. The "offenders" are pulled out of line in plain view and given "special" sandwiches to eat. Everyone there knows who gets those special sandwiches and why.

I've been teaching 3 decades and have a master's degree in child development, and I can assure you that neither my response on this board or anyone else's makes this child ill. The shame does.

According to you, the stars the Jews wore in Germany would have been no big deal if not for the hysterical liberals making it so, yeah?

[woo me with science]

278. Nope.

Witness the many posts by DU-ers who ate cheese sandwiches as children and were not scarred for life. If any child is throwing up in response to this situation, it is because someone like you gave her the utterly despicable message that she should. Shame on you for spraying victimhood and shame on children in a situation where it is utterly unnecessary.

Also, I would like to thank you for including that last, ridiculous sentence in your post, because it clearly illustrates for everyone the quality of your argument.

[mbperrin]

285. Read the OP. The student feels like throwing up.

Don't say nope. That's what it says.

Now instead of denigrating my argument, rebut it. Your inability to do so clearly illustrates for everyone the quality of your argument.

Humiliation is bad for kids.

It's even worse when it's for something someone else did.

Your turn.

[woo me with science]

288. Double nope.

You don't know why this child said that, but I have a fairly good idea. The outrage over this entire story is an outrage, and it is the product of this sick, faux "compassion" you exemplify with your victimhood crap.

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - that needs to be inherently humiliating about eating a cheese sandwich. Children learn how to process and respond to situations from adults, and the healthy response here is certainly not to assume that these children are traumatized victims and to send them that message, either overtly or tacitly.

For god's sake, the parents didn't pay, and they just have to fix that - yet you are going to leap in and assume that their children need your pity meal because they are "constantly humiliated" and cannot possibly endure the day at the cafeteria table with a cheese sandwich. How dare you infantilize these families and spread this crap to their children. How dare you act as though these kids can't survive a cheese sandwich and as though their parents can't fix this situation? Your ATTITUDE is what is bad for these kids - far worse than any comment little Ryan or Caitlin might make at the lunch table.

You seriously will use a cheese sandwich to teach self-pity and victimhood.....What a fucking amazing "child psychologist" you must be. This is the sickness that pop psychology and the victim culture have brought to our society now. What a crock, and what an insult. Your type of "liberalism" is an affront to true liberals who want to see people empowered - not to pity them and rescue them from cheese sandwiches so they can have their little orgasmic moment on a message board.

Sheesh.

[mbperrin]

295. Once again, the humiliation is in being pulled publicly out of line

and given the meal that only those whose parents are "deadbeats" get!

Get a degree in early childhood development - I have a master's in same.

And if you cannot remember how easy it was to be humiliated as a young child by adults, and if you cannot remember how readily other children follow those adults' lead,

then you have willfully suppressed it, or you were one of the glad followers of the bully brigade.

Not the sandwich, but what it stands for.

The stars the Jews wore were just ordinary Stars of David, until those in authority announced what they really meant and stood for to the German country at that time.

No one would have stood in line to buy one after that. Not the stars, the meaning assigned by those in authority; not the sandwich, the meaning assigned by those in authority.

[Name removed]

306. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woo me with science]

309. Oh. My. God.

You just surpassed my wildest expectations.

:rofl:

[mbperrin]

311. There goes that "God" critter again! Who is he and why does he want

children to be humiliated?

Exceeding expectations means I get a raise. Thanks.

[barb162]

290. Lots of kids say they'll throw up if they don't like to eat something.

So what? Do you give in to them and give them whatever the fuck they want to eat? Pizza and a coke? Some kids throw tantrums in stores too when parents don't buy whatever they want. Is the parent supposed to give in to that too?
What is wrong with a sandwich, piece of fruit and milk for lunch? Is that unwholesome somehow? Did your parents let you eat whatever you dictated or did you eat what they put in front of you?

[mbperrin]

296. Have any kids? I've got 3 grown, 5 grandkids, and 2 greats. Have a child development

degree? I've got a master's.

Now let's get to those questions. "Lots of kids say" is not a usable statistic. Not one of my kids or their kids or their kids have ever said such a thing to me. I never said it to my parents, either.

So your method of child raising is never "give in" and give them what they want? You recommend ALWAYS giving them something they don't want? Please show me what tantrums have to do with anything in this thread. Also please give some incidence rate of that behavior after you make the link. None of my kids, their kids, or their kids have ever done such in a store while I was present, nor have I ever seen any child do such a thing, ever. I've seen some adults argue and hit each other in public over money and spending, but never a kid.

And neither my parents nor I have ever either arbitrarily "put food in front of" kids and demanded they eat it. Nor did the kids do that to me. At mealtimes, like I assume all reasonable people do, we reach a consensus on what sounds good. This teaches kids to make choices for reasons and to become participants in their own raising.

Authoritarian parenting nearly always ends badly. Kids do not know how to make decisions, even as adults, and they seek abusive folks to tell them what to do and live unhappy lives.

What is wrong with THIS sandwich is that THIS is the sandwich that is given ONLY to kids whose parents are identified as "deadbeats" by other adults, and they are pulled out of line publicly so that everyone, including their peers, knows they are "bad" people because their parents are "bad." The humiliation of the child is supposed to spur the parents to act to pay the lunch bill. What it does, of course, is make either reluctant learners (who wants to go someplace where they make fun of you?) or it creates children who see doing harm to others as OK and acceptable. It's no different from other bullying, except that this is officially sanctioned.

Read the statistics on how many school shooters felt they were "getting even" for slights from other kids, teachers, and administrators.

OH, and BTW, ask a medical doctor if kids ever really vomit or if it's just a tactic the little terrorists use to gain ground in the ongoing war with those who spawned them....

[barb162]

307. Feeding problems in kids is not rare: occurrence is 25-40%

so it's rather odd you have never seen it, let alone you have never seen tantrums in stores. I'd stay away from the black and white verbiage you're using, words like never, ALWAYS,etc., because finicky, picky, fussy, tantrum, etc., type eating in young children is on a wide spectrum of behavior in kids. And common. You might want to google it yourself since you seem to be so unaware of it.

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/FoodRefusal.htm

snip Feeding problems and eating disturbances in toddlers and early school age children are not particularly rare. They occur in 25%-40% of the population (Kerwin, 1999). However, severe eating disturbances requiring treatment occur in only 3%-10% of young children (Kerwin, 1999). The most common eating disturbance in young children involves some form of food refusal, which some believe may be related to anorexia (Robin et. al., 1998). snip


Here's another:
Last Updated: Tuesday, 26 August, 2003, 23:22 GMT 00:22 UK
Children throw away healthy lunch


Most children throw away healthy items in their lunch boxes, a survey reveals.
Two out of three children said they regularly discarded sandwiches, while one in three bin fruit.

However, they are more likely to eat crisps and biscuits - just one in five of those questioned said they would throw these away.

The findings are based on a survey of nine to 11 year olds at a school in Buckinghamshire by NOP for the manufacturers of Ribena Toothkind.

Parents' concerns
Researchers also questioned 262 parents from across the UK.

Two out of three said they were not concerned about whether or not their children discarded some of their lunch.

It seems many children are discarding elements of their lunch, which means they may be missing out on vital vitamins and minerals every day.

Over 80% of children said they had thrown items away.

snip
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3182629.stm

[mbperrin]

312. Perhaps my kids are in the MAJORITY of 60-75% you indicate do NOT

exhibit this behavior.

I would agree that in hypothetical usage, extremes are to be avoided, but I am speaking of my own anecdotal experience.

And I repeat I have NEVER seen a tantrum in a store.

Your own evidence doesn't seem to indicate that parents approve of their child being humiliated over unpaid lunch bills.

Sharpen that focus a bit, please.

[Scout]

305. whenever i was supposed to eat something i didn't want to eat,

i felt like throwing up too. i never did actually throw up though when i ate it, isn't that strange.

children are master manipulators ... don't you know anything with all your education and experience? :rofl:

[barb162]

308. Great minds think alike

see my post 307 above
A lot of kids manipulate in this area but some people just refuse to see they're doing it is all I can figure. Or maybe all they do is feed the kids brownies and coke all day long to keep them happy?

From BBC: "Most children throw away healthy items in their lunch boxes, a survey reveals.
Two out of three children said they regularly discarded sandwiches, while one in three bin fruit.

However, they are more likely to eat crisps and biscuits - just one in five of those questioned said they would throw these away.

The findings are based on a survey of nine to 11 year olds at a school in Buckinghamshire by NOP for the manufacturers of Ribena Toothkind.

Parents' concerns
Researchers also questioned 262 parents from across the UK.

Two out of three said they were not concerned about whether or not their children discarded some of their lunch.

It seems many children are discarding elements of their lunch, which means they may be missing out on vital vitamins and minerals every day.

Over 80% of children said they had thrown items away."snip

[rebecca_herman]

310. well some kids would

I likely would have as a child, and I likely still would now. My food aversions are based on textures and gag reflexes though. I know when something is making me sick and when to stop eating it. Depends if the child's body has an actual issue with the food vs the child just wanting to eat something else at the moment.

[mbperrin]

313. No, with my education and experience, I seem to avoid being

manipulated by children. Perhaps you need a few tips, since you say it happens to you a lot...

[Scout]

320. i did not indicate how often i am personally manipulated by children

perhaps your education didn't include reading comprehension.

[mbperrin]

321. Your statement was that children are master manipulators.

You did not say a few, some, or even most. You used an implied all, and I would assume that you made the statement from personal experience, because you failed to cite any exterior source for that observation.

Please correct the deficiencies in your original statement so that what you said is what you meant. As it is, I could only respond to what you said.

My bachelor's degree in English did indeed include reading comprehension. Perhaps that's working to your disadvantage here.

[Scout]

322. all children (humans) are master manipulators. they would not be able to survive if they were not.

while i don't have your lauded (at least by you) master's degree, i have my share of psych classes, and i was a child myself.

if you had to have a master's degree to believe that children are manipulators, you have a problem.

perhaps you just think too damn much of yourself with all your degrees and all ... having a degree does not mean you are correct. there are just as many people who are assholes who have college degrees, as those who don't. you know what they say ... Bull Shit, More Shit, and Piled Hip Deep.


edit to add: you stated "I would assume" ... perhaps you should stop doing that, cuz, y'know.... :eyes:

[mbperrin]

323. So if kids must manipulate to survive, I assume you've been

manipulated by your kids, because they surely must have survived. Otherwise, please lead us to the bodies.

Right?

Oh, and the whole street cred vs formal education thing - don't bother. I live in a county where 50% of the population over 25 does not have even a high school diploma, so I get PLENTY of the "well, shore, he done got all that book learnin', but he ain't got no common sense."

So tear down the schools and solve that problem. BTW, if we tore down the schools, we wouldn't have the whole cheese sandwich debacle either, so there's a plan for ya!

"If ignorance is the answer, what was the question?"

Well, it's been real, and it's been fun, but you know. See ya around the internets!


:hi:

[Scout]

325. your post are laughable

"I live in a county where 50% of the population over 25 does not have even a high school diploma, so I get PLENTY of the "well, shore, he done got all that book learnin', but he ain't got no common sense."

well you must seem like a towering intellect among your lesser beings then :eyes:

i live in a county with a big ten university, and i have a degree from a big ten university ... so the fuck what?


edit subject for better choice of words

[Stellabella]

256. And you sound like a judgmental ass.

You obviously have no IDEA the subtle humiliation that poor kids are subjected to EVERY DAY OF THEIR LIVES.

I am teaching my own children to be GOOD, KIND people, something you obviously know nothing about. Did you, perhaps, learn this attitude of church??

And no, you don't get a fucking break. Your attitude is CONTEMPTIBLE.

Buh-bye. Glad to see the back of ya!

[woo me with science]

280. Oh, yeah!

I know it's not YOUR kids who are victims. Just all those OTHER poor, pathetic creatures who live their lives in constant humiliation and come from parents who cannot possibly be expected to take any steps to feed them. How lucky they are to have you to drive home that message.

[Psephos]

263. Please clone yourself and distribute one hundred copies :)

Your observations are dead on.

Feeling sorry for people you don't know so often has nothing to do with actually helping anyone, but with beating your own breast to claim the high moral ground. I can always tell that sort of person when they quickly resort to faux outrage, nasty name-calling, and self-righteousness on behalf of "the children."

On behalf of the children my ass. Punching keys in "outrage" on a computer is actually worse than doing nothing, because it allows the moral sermonists to pretend they've done something. My theory is they enjoy the feeling of anger and having someone to spray it on. They think it validates them.

You rightly point at the lasting dysfunction a patronizing or infantilizing attitude toward "the poor" can engender. (It's highly instructive that "the poor" must always be an abstraction to their would-be saviors.) Every warm-blooded animal mother on Earth understands that her young must learn adaptive, integrative, and defensive skills - or perish. There's a word for patronized or infantilized animals: dinner...for some other, better-adapted creature.

Young humans who don't learn adaptive, integrative, and defensive skills - otherwise known as learning how to link what you do with what happens to you - are destined to a lifetime of self-perpetuating dysfunction.

We can and must and do help the less-fortunate. I want to see us do lots more. But in ways that enhance rather than degrade responsibility, discipline, and dignity. The issue isn't money - I'd be glad to be taxed more to pay for that, in addition to private giving. But not to see the money used ignorantly to inculcate the victim mentality. There is no worse long-term poison than to put the victim worm in some kid's head.

Treating "the poor" as a bunch of babies who can't take care of even the most mundane responsibilities of day-to-day living is deeply bigoted, highly patriarchal, and a theft of basic dignity. It robs them of the very thing we want them to have.

Give a woman a fish, she eats for today. Teach a woman to fish, she eats for a lifetime.



edit: typo

[woo me with science]

268. Beautiful post.

You said it much better than I did. Thanks.

[Stellabella]

282. Up yours.

How dare you trivialize my concern for poor children? YOU and your attitude is what is wrong with this country. Helping hungry kids is NOT 'infantilizing' them.

And as far as 'punching keys in "outrage" goes, looks like you're pretty good at it. What have you done to help feed a hungry child? Have you ever done ANYTHING?

My husband and I feed lots of children and my outrage is REAL. These kids live in generational poverty and we do the best we can for them.

As far as I'm concerned, YOU are the whining baby. Buzz off. And good riddance.

[barb162]

291. Bravo.

The kids are getting fed nutritious food and it's is free to the parent...they're not going hungry. I find some of the comments around here surreal when it's suggested that isn't good enough.

Maybe adults are supposed to let the seven year old set run the food program. Whatever they don't like, say vegetables or milk or fruit, off the menu you go!

[barb162]

293. The kids are getting a free nutritious meal. That's reprehensible? n/t

[WriteDown]

317. See post 315 nt.

[Taverner]

174. Ahem, not all parents are gleaming icons of responsibility

There is no reason to punish the kids for that

[WolverineDG]

185. Punished with a cheese sandwich? Hardly

if they were being "punished," they wouldn't be fed at all. :eyes:

dg

[Stellabella]

206. Exactly.

This sick fetish some people have for punishing children if the parents have problems is really regressive and unAmerican.

[Zhade]

216. So fuck the kids because of their parents' error?

That's called collective punishment.

I reiterate: WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?

[Regret My New Name]

150. But they were no longer hungry after having some fruit, milk and a cheese sandwich. :D

[Bill McBlueState]

163. you win the thread. n/t

[nichomachus]

176. If the parents screwed up, punish the parents -- not the kids

[Scout]

198. how? and in the meantime, who will pay for the kids' lunches?

how do recommend the parents be punished? charge them more money that they supposedly don't have?

the children are not being punished. they are being fed despite the fact that their parents seem too lazy to care for them properly.

[Stellabella]

208. How about the taxpayers?

Really, you need to think things through before you post.

And yes, they are being punished because they are being singled out. And EVERY child knows that's punishment.

Grow up.

[Scout]

210. answer the question .... HOW will the parents be punished?

isn't that what you're calling for, "don't punish the poor children by feeding them ANYWAY," even though their parents can't be bothered to follow some simple procedures, or heaven forbid, pack a fucking lunch at home for the kid.

grow up your own self.

they are not being punished, they are being fed. and you know what, stupid asshole kids that will tease them about a cheese sandwich will find something else to tease them about.

[Scout]

211. if the parents are not indigent, then they need to pay for their kids

the taxpayers are already paying for the education, the parents should have to pay to feed them.

i bet you're one of those parents whose children are going to grow up thinking they are entitled to everything simply by being born, and that the world will continue to revolve around them after they leave mommy and daddy's tender embrace.

[Honeycombe8]

274. Fruit and cheese sandwich is a punishment? Ha! I'll take it. Esp. if it's free.

VERY healthy. The only thing missing is a veggie of some sort.

[Lost in CT]

53. It is the parents fault for not filling out a form for reduced lunches. nt

[katusha]

60. reading comprehension not your strong suit?

maybe you were not fed properly in school when this was being taught but again from the article:

"She had to eat cheese sandwiches because her mother couldn't afford to give her lunch money while her application for free lunch was being processed."

[Hulk]

66. bull shit again....

Maybe the principal is asleep at the wheel, but these forms would come in one day and usually go home approved the next day. If they couldn't afford a lunch for one day and were forced to eat a cheese sandwich, I'm not sure I get the severity of the situation. If the principal has his/her head up their ass and doesn't get around to approving the application for a week, then maybe there is an issue. But even so.....five days of cheese sandwiches doesn't quite sound like anything to get upset about. Cripes sakes!

[katusha]

88. let me get this straight

a child should be pulled out of line with her friends and classmates, be publicly identified as one of the "poor kids" or "deadbeats" as the article labelled them, simply because her mom did everything right including asking for help in written format when she realized she was in over her head?

[WolverineDG]

94. She only did "everything she could" after 2 weeks went by

with weekly reminders & daily phone calls from school to get her to do something. She didn't give a damn about her kids being pulled from the line then, what's the rush now?

dg

[Name removed]

218. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

2. That was my lunch my whole life

Bologna or cheese sandwich, cookies OR fruit, and milk in a thermos. And my parents paid for it just like the parents of all the rest of the kids who brought cold lunch, and just like I paid for it when my kids went to school with cold lunch or when I paid for reduced lunch when I could afford that.

This is not poverty and this is not punishment. Sometimes people's expectations are way too high for what can be reasonably afforded.

[Donnachaidh]

28. When a school spends THOUSANDS on weight-lifting supplies

and then makes poor kids choke down crackers and milk just *because* they forgot money, or heaven forbid, didn't have the cash -- you HAVE to question just WTF happened to compassion in our schools.

[Hulk]

68. You probably need to get a few more facts before you cherry pick that situation.

God I love it when peeps get a little information and then create a catastrophe in their minds. Schools have to deal with this type of twisted reality all the time.

I'd like to see some school that "..spends THOUSANDS of weight-lifting supplies"...that they didn't EARN the money to spend. Granted, such things can happen. But to link that to some "poor kid having to eat a cheese sandwich" is something out of a rush limpball movie.

[Donnachaidh]

73. it's my kids school, moran

YOU probably need to get a few more facts before blowing off about something you have no knowledge of. and YES, they bought sports equipment BEFORE they addressed the needs of kids coming to school with no lunch money.

[Lost in CT]

85. The school lunch program is a federal program.

The only way a kid falls through the cracks are if his or her's parents are incompetent or simply don't care.

What is so hard about filling out a form or bagging a lunch?

[Scout]

197. considering that sports teams and of course EDUCATION are

the business and purpose of a school, kids are damn lucky the school has any kind of lunch program.

if you can't afford to feed your children, you are the one with the problem, not the schools.

[donco6]

271. Sports equipment and school lunch are entirely separate funds.

The national school lunch program has to run as an enterprise fund. That means it's meant to be self-sustaining. It shows profit/loss. Districts generally do not send subsidies from K-12 money to the lunch program. The weightlifing equipment could have been purchased from a student fundraiser, boosters, or capital projects funds. Those can't mix.

[mbperrin]

286. It's all my taxpayer money. Accounting arguments are a bit facile, don't you think?

Our district provides a $1 million dollar addition to the funds received for lunches in order to serve a higher quality lunch.

Our $1.5 million dollar weightlifting facility came right from local taxpayer funds, just like the $5 million dollar football stadium that seats 20,800.

We can do all that, but you wish to use accounting to deny a child dignity with lunch?

Wow.

[donco6]

297. Wow. That's amazing.

A million dollars to subsidize lunch? I can't think of a single district anywhere near me that does that.

So with that kind of money, what are you bitching about?

[mbperrin]

299. 28,000 kids in the district; 180 days of school. 2 meals a day.

Ten million eighty thousand meals a year served. The million dollars adds a little less than a dime per meal to the minimum funds obtained from state and federal governments.

The total budget for the district is about $270 million per year. The million is about 1/3 of 1% of the total budget.

I'm not bitching about my district. I'm saying that it costs very little to make a nice difference in the lives of kids.

I'm bitching about school districts who publicly humiliate children because of factors beyond the child's control.

I'm also bitching about so called grownups who think picking on kids is good for them.

[donco6]

300. Who's picking on kids?

I'm 72% free/reduced. If anyone is singled out, it's the kid that pays!!

[mbperrin]

301. The school officials in the OP who are publicly taking the kids out of line

and giving them a "special" meal that all of their peers and all of the adults present know is a sign that your parents are deadbeats.

Public negative attention to small children for actions not theirs nor under their control are being picked on.

The district I work for is 67% free/reduced. All kids and staff who eat in the cafeteria punch their ID's into a machine at the register. No one knows who paid in advance and are paying down now and who gets free or reduced lunch. Lets lunch just be lunch time instead of the never ending who's in and who's out game of school.

[donco6]

302. We have a biometric reader.

We feed all kids K-6 irregardless of their account. The state provides funding for kids who are on reduced breakfast/lunch, so if you're free OR reduced, you eat free. We get a small subsidy from the general fund to pay for K-6 kids who should pay, but don't.

7th grade on up, they get three charges, then they get the lowest-cost selection of the day (secondary kids get 3 choices). We keep track of the charges and go after the parents.

I have to be able to break even at the end of the year. And you know, it wouldn't take THAT much to make every kid "free". But evidently, it's not a priority at the federal level. I had a representative tell me "Parents should be feeding their kids." Hopefully, things will change.

[mbperrin]

303. Thank you for everything you're doing!

Kids need to eat, regardless of their parents, and it sounds like you're doing a good job!

Thank you!

And thank all the districts out there who are shooting a little higher than "We're better than Darfur"

[Lost in CT]

84. What is wrong with equipment for the gym.

Honestly looking at some of these kids less food and more exercise equipment might not be such a bad thing.

[XemaSab]

98. .

:popcorn:

[Scout]

201. oh boy, you're in for it now! i hope you have your flamesuit on! n/t

[Lost in CT]

235. It's a legitimate point (and a strange gripe above)

I have always wondered why school gyms didn't resemble Bally's instead of some rubber ball and rope climbing hell.

[Scout]

200. when parents can't be bothered to follow simple procedures

to be sure their children are fed at school, or god forbid, pack a fucking lunch at home for them, you HAVE to wonder why the hell they were allowed to breed.

[katusha]

248. allowed to breed??

care to clarify that? it sounds like you are getting awfully close to advocating cumpolsory sterilization.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization

[Scout]

252. i think it was pretty clear n/t

edit typo

[katusha]

253. yes it was pretty clear

i wonder if i meet your requirements for being allowed to breed?

[Scout]

254. do you neglect your children? n/t

[barb162]

260. Yeah, if the kids don't get hot meals for lunch, the parent is negligent.

It has to be hot, I tell you!

:nopity: :spank:

As of today it's a new rule or something to be on a liberal board.
:sarcasm:

[katusha]

265. for being boring, i sure generate a lot of interest from you n/t

[katusha]

264. poor response

i ask you if i meet your requirements for breeding and you respond with a question of what i would do after breeding. it's like asking applicants for drivers liscences if they will be involved in an accident in the future.

in post 213 above you pondered "you HAVE to wonder why the hell they were allowed to breed."
so again i ask you for further clarification on this being allowed to breed statement and whether i meet the criteria or what the criteria is at all. of course you can just continue to pop off baffoonish one liners in lieu of an argument, or maybe even a story about the good old days when you weren't old and embittered. whichever you'd like.

[Scout]

304. you never answered my question abou THIS SPECIFIC FAMILY

in THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE supposedly not having any bread to make a sandwich with...

you referred me to some vague, generalized specifics about "the poor" when i asked a very specific question about this family.

if you have proven that you neglect the children you have, you should not be allowed to have more. if you still insist on breeding anyway, then any further children should be removed.

face it, some people simply ARE breeders. other people ARE parents. you need to learn to tell the difference, then all the children will be better off.

[XemaSab]

93. My school didn't serve lunch

I had peanut butter and fruit every single blessed day for 5 years.

I hate peanut butter. x(

[progressoid]

179. Hell, I STILL eat PB sandwiches and fruit for lunch.

In fact, that is EXACTLY what I ate yesterday.

1/2 PB sandwich.
1 banana
Water (no milk).

[Thothmes]

118. Pretty much my lunch in elementary and junior high school

Alternated between cheese, peanut butter, bologna or salami sanwiches, apple, banana, pear and sometimes a home made cookie. Always got a nickle for milk thought.

[Tikki]

3. If you want a litmus test on how those people can call..

themselves compassionate conservatives...

Make a statement on why the free and reduced lunch
programs should be expanded during economic times like this.

....then get ready for the cold, cruel responses.


Tikki

[YOY]

4. She can use the free ketchup package and get herself a free dose of vegetables as well!

:sarcasm:

[HopeHoops]

10. Ah, yes - I REMEMBER when Reagan declared that ketchup counted as a serving of vegetables!

[AnneD]

81. YOU FORGOT......

THE PICKLES!!!! They were veggies too.

[HopeHoops]

89. Maybe Reagan didn't LIKE pickles! He's dead now so we can't ask. Bush 41 didn't like broccoli.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warpy]

6. A cold sandwich, peanut butter or cheese, and carton of milk

is what most of us grew up on in the 50s when we were expected to bring our lunches from home.

[Scout]

11. my elementary school in liberal Ann Arbor, Michigan didn't have

a hot or cold lunch program, no cafeteria.

You either brought your lunch from home, if you rode the bus, and ate it at your desk until it was time for recess, or if you walked to school you walked home for lunch and walked back.

I had either a pb&j or bologna or tuna sandwich, a snack size bag of chips, an apple/banana, and we could buy half-pints of milk. parents were billed monthly, i think, for the milk.

this was in the 60s.


eta: i forgot ... some kind of hostess-type snacky thing was included for dessert.

[barb162]

20. There were no free lunches in the private or public schools I attended.

You either brought your own or paid for it in the cafeteria. One of the schools I attended had no cafeteria so you brought food from home. Your elementary school sounds like mine. No one, parents or children, thought someone else owed them free luches. You could get billed monthly for milk too.

[Warpy]

62. Your mother had more ambition than mine did

Milk was 2 cents a carton, eventually went up to a nickel. The nickel was in the lunch box although I hated milk and would say "I forgot" and just drink from the water fountain. The nickel went to a Baby Ruth bar on the way home from school.

I did get chicken noodle soup for the first month or so until the thermos that came with the lunch box broke.

[barb162]

138. Well, there was no cafeteria in my grammar school so if you didn't bring

food, you didn't eat until you got home. there was that thing with milk though too; the parents paid once a week or month or something. But nothing was free. Funny how you remember the stuff about the Baby Ruth. My mom put no money in the lunch box as there was nothing to buy. :)

[Scout]

202. damn those thermoses! mine never lasted very long either....

i distinctly remember the sound it made, when you dropped your metal lunch box with the thermos inside, and the thermos broke.

you know, i didn't think much of it then, (as probably most children don't) but my mom for years packed school lunches and my dad's lunch every morning (i have 4 older sibs and a cousin who grew up with us all in the same house).

my parents certainly weren't rich, but we weren't so poor that we kids ever went hungry. mom and dad didn't expect anyone else to feed and clothe us, they scrimped when they had to and did it themselves.

[barb162]

203. Your memories are very similar to mine.

And thermoses never really kept the food warm.

[Warpy]

255. My mother was a martyr to the kitchen

and must've celebrated when I finally went to a school with a cafeteria.

[barb162]

277. Mine too. n/t

[mbperrin]

59. Not the point. This food is a badge of shame. No one else gets it,

only the "deadbeats". Of course, no child can control their parents, so they deserve to be humiliated in front of others because of it.

[Regret My New Name]

123. I get your point to an extent, but I have question.

What happens when/if a parent never gets around to doing his or her part? In this case it sounds like the mother filled out the paperwork, but only after her daughter started getting the cold lunch.

*In this case, I'd think the school would be wise to have gave the cold lunch until the parent filled out the forms. Then even if they were not processed yet, they could have just let the child have the normal lunch until they were processed*

[mbperrin]

128. Can't punish the kid for the parents' actions, ever.

There are lousy parents in the world, and one of the jobs of the public school is to alleviate some of that, not punish kids for it.

My district has a 20,800 seat football stadium for the two high schools here and just spent $1.2 million dollars for athletic buses.

We also can afford a 75 cent regular lunch for kids who need to eat.

[Regret My New Name]

147. Then why not do away with the forms and processes all together?

I'm assuming there is some sort of valid reason why they have the process they have. If that is the case then it would be problematic if they simply allowed people not fill out the forms. However, if there isn't a real reasons for the process to be the way it is, then I don't see it should even require anything such as this. I don't think this is about greed or saving money for other things... To me, it seems more like a possible flaw in the system that doesn't account for parents who are either too busy, irresponsible, or perhaps have children who don't deliver all the school papers to their parents...

[mbperrin]

199. Suits me. I'd just as soon feed every kid and provide them with supplies

as well.

[katusha]

251. i agree

if it is an investment that pays back more than it costs in the long run, then why not help ourselves out instead of cutting off our nose to spite our face?

[fedupwithbush]

152. lunch lady here

We serve cheese sandwiches, 5 baby carrots, milk and juice when the student has run into the red and can't charge anymore.

99 percent of the time, the students getting it are not on free lunch. However we aren't supposed to mention that or even act like we know which ones are on free or reduced lunch.

I'm also a parent. My daughter had this happen to her once this year. Guess what? She had her lunch notice. They give them out once a week. She didn't give it to me. When she finally got the cheese sandwich meal, she told me she needed money.

I'm not saying something wasn't wrong that the paperwork was the the hold-up in the story. But to assume the school is heartless is far from the truth. But we are under a budget crisis just like a lot of places. Food, as all of you know, has gone through the roof in cost.

The schools can't afford a big deficit either. They are trying to feed all the students.

As far as the forms to fill out, they are given at enrollement here wether you need them or not. They are available in the office at all times.

[katusha]

219. can i ask you a question?

as one food service professional to another how much food do you prepare and then throw away at the end of the day? would you say it is in the 2% range, such as you make enough spaghetti and meatballs for 32 meals but only 30 get served? or what would you estimate?

[fedupwithbush]

289. Depends on what you are serving.

We make enough to serve maybe 10 or 20 more than we expect, usually on the tray line. On Ala-carte side we cook for each lunch. Depending on the cook for that side and the day, we may have 10 items left or 50.

We keep those items for the most part. Corndogs, Pizza, chili, gravy, mashed potatoes, salad stuff, cheese, chicken strips, nuggets, get used a second time.

We serve left over vegetables like green beans and corn again.

We freeze leftover lasagna, mac & cheese, cinnamon rolls, rolls and serve them again.

Not much goes to waste anymore.

French fries are served on Friday's only. If we have some left, we give them out free in the dining room.

The kids are required to takea milk with their lunch. If they don't want it, we have an ice bucket outside the lunchroom they can leave it in and any of the other kids can take that milk for free.

Our school district is approximately 1800 students. I'm at the high school, but have worked at all the schools. We serve over 600 meals a day, with many on the alacarte side getting more than one main item, so instead of one cheeseburger, they buy two.

But with each side, they get a full salad bar and a choice of fruit or juice. That can vary, but we always have at least 4 or 5 kinds of fruit available on both sides on any given day, including strawberries, banana's, oranges and apples, plus pineapple, applesauce, pears, mandarin oranges. The salad bar also includes a lot of extras including macaroni salad, cottage cheese, shredded cheese, brocholli, cauliflower, pea's, carrots, tomatoes, 3 kinds of dressing and on days we have chicken fried steak or egg rolls, they get mashed potatoes and gravy with the steak and fried rice(homemade) with the eggroll.

On a day we have spaghetti, we don't mix the spaghetti and sauce. If we have spaghetti left, it's turned into a pasta salad for the next day. Sauce is frozen for the next time. Same with taco meat.

Our bread is homemade, including cinnamon rolls and pig in a blankets.

And this is a huge downsizing from just 3 years ago. We used to make almost everything from scratch. We even cut up fresh chicken into bite size pieces to fry for sweet and sour chicken Now when we have chinese day, we serve prepared chicken, but the fried rice and egg drop soup are still homemade. We no longer serve the fortune cookies.

Our kids eat well, maybe too well as the main components are handed out, but the extra's are self serve.

I would defy anyone to go get a meal for 2.10 or 2.60 for adults that included even half of what one lunch we serve has.

[JenniferJuniper]

7. Same menu at my kids'

school when someone shows up with no money. I guess it's been that way for some time now. I only know this because I overheard my 10 year old and some friends joking about pocketing their lunch money to save up for some Jonas Brothers crap their parents won't buy them. "If we all go with the cheese sandwiches for the next month...." The little rascals' plan was promptly stymied.

I think back when I was a kid you'd just go hungry, although I know the school had "work for lunch" type of plan for subsidized lunches. Clean the tables and mop the floors and your lunch was mostly covered. Seemed a bit Oliver Twist to me at the time.

[carlyhippy]

13. I did the work for lunch thing

but at that time anyone could do it, not just the kids in need, which at my school everyone was either paid in full or they had the free lunch program to take care of them, so the cafeteria workers were looking for kids to work. I loved it, got out of class early, got to pick whatever I wanted to eat, 3 dinner rolls and dessert and chocolate milk instead of the gross chili mac and white milk.

[acmavm]

19. I did to but that's because we didn't have money and that's just what you

did if you wanted lunch.

I loved it myself. Kids made fun of me, but when their found out that they lunch plates had to pass through my hands, they quit damn fast.

edit: they/their

[carlyhippy]

23. haha, the old addage "never p*ss off the person who handles your food" holds true

I don't remember having anyone make fun of me, not to my face anyway. Most of the kids that worked in the cafeteria were the ones who wanted to get out of class and the picky eaters (like me) that wanted some control of what I was eating for lunch.

[1monster]

52. Kids go hungry at school EVERY day. I fed a kid for a year and a half because his

family (who could) wouldn't. He wasn't allowed breakfast, had no lunch (until I provided it after my son told me of his plight), but was allowed dinner. (He has moved away and is now living with his other parent who does feed him.)

I could never understand why my son came home from school starving when I gave him so much food: A ham or turkey sandwich, an apple, two granola bars, a pack of six peanutbutter crackers, two snack packs of fruit chews, and a drink.

He told me that he was feeding three others with the food I gave him. Since I am proud of him for caring and sharing and doing what little he can to help others, I have continued to give him extra food and don't say anything when he comes home looking for food, even though my grocery fund has shrunk even as prices have increased.

On the rare occasion that I have lunch duty, I see lots of kids who just sit in the cafeteria socializing and not eating.

Hunger in America is real and those that are hungry are quite often children who will pay in intelligence, education, and physical growth for the lack of food now.

It is a crime how this country is always ready to cut funds for education, help for the indigent, and health care, but can always seem to find money for a new weapon or weapons delivery system.

[Jamastiene]

91. I wish your post was an OP.

So, I could recommend it. You son sounds like a good kid, one to be proud of. I can't believe some of the things people are saying in this thread. It sounds just like what the Republicans would say. How can people be so cold and cruel toward kids? Maybe, I shouldn't ask. I have also noticed how we always have money for guns and bombs, but not for the poor in this country. It all comes down to walking a mile in someone else's shoes to understand, I guess.

[1monster]

112. I always try to live by "There but for the grace of (put your favorite entity or circumstance here)

go I.

If one can see a homeless person and know in his or her heart that, yes, that could be me someday, then it makes it easier to hold out a helping hand to others, homeless or not.

And it could be ANY of us one day. No one is immune to bad fortune.

But too many people believe they are and that hard work alone, if nothing else, will keep them from that fate.

It doesn't. Ask Debbie Reynolds, for one. She ended up broke and homeless through no fault of her own. (She's no longer in that situation.)

If one has ever gone hungry, they will do what they can to help others avoid it. (I remember my early years on my own. Jobs were low paying and hard to come by. Rent was high. There were weeks when I lived on a jar of peanutbutter and jelly swirl and a loaf of bread. And there were days when the only thing I had to eat was the hamburger that was thrown out at the end of the day in a fast food restaurant. I could have been fired if caught eating it, but I managed to keep my job until better times came along.)

[Kali]

97. You have a good kid there.

and you too, thankyou. *snif*

[1monster]

114. Thank you. I think so and his teachers tell me he is one of the best behaved kids in their classes.

And that he is the most respectful kid.

(I wish he were as respctful to me, but at least I taught him how to treat others.)

[sandnsea]

134. Call Child Services

Good lord if there are kids who aren't being fed, then that's abuse. You don't enable it, you get the kid out of the situation.

Unless we're talking about middle and high school kids who won't make the lunch the parents have provided because yours tastes better.

[1monster]

189. I considered it, but the kid himself, who was sixteen, begged me not to do so.

I know that some of his contempoaries wanted to do the same, but he told them he did not want that.

Since he is so close to eighteen, I bowed to his wishes. I figured as long as I was feeding him and looking out for his after school extra curricular transportation, I would know if things got bad enough that CPS needed to be called. (CPS doesn't have the greatest reputation, as it is.) I believe that his wishes in this matter were important

A few months ago, his father moved the family to the state where his mother lived and he has since gone to live with her and is doing fine.

[sandnsea]

191. 16, you've got to be kidding

Do you realize how many 16 year olds would sooner mooch off of others than to carry a sack lunch with whatever their parents have in the frig? You were being used.

[1monster]

193. No, I wasn't. The kid has been one of my son's best friends for over five years.

His older sibling, who eventually ran away, confirmed his story to me.

I think I would know more about it than you. The father was a control-freak authoritarian jerk.

He's sixteen now, but I started feeding him when he was fourteen. When he was fourteen, I didn't know quite how bad things were. It was only in this past year that I witnessed situations that made me believe tht CPS should be called, although my son had told me stories for several years which made me wonder about the parenting in that family.

The young man in question is a really nice kid. I'm glad things are better for him now.

[sandnsea]

196. Control freak authoritarian jerks buy food

Again, probably not as good as what you were fixing, but food just the same. There is a huge difference between a kid not liking what they're provided and a parent providing nothing. If a parent is providing nothing, then I think you would have called child services. An imperfect home is not the same thing as a completely neglectful abusive home. The kid had food. Yours was better. You don't help the kid who has nothing by confusing the two situations.

[1monster]

226. Yeah, I'm sure you know it all. I think you don't have a clue. I work in the schools

every day. Kids go hungry there all the time. This kid went to school every day without lunch.

Believe me, the lunch I gave him wasn't that great and it was the same thing EVERY day to save me time in the morning.

I don't choose to give more details than I already have; it's not your business.

I'd hate to be as cynical as you.

[Stellabella]

230. My dh is a teacher at an alternative school and he is paying for several

kids whose parents can't afford the lunch and who just can't get their acts together to apply for free lunches.

NO HUNGRY CHILDREN. That's our motto.

[keroro gunsou]

319. my school did that too

if you volunteered to help the cafeteria staff, they'd hook you up with lunch. usually, only the 5-8th graders were allowed to help, mostly because the younger kids would make bigger messes.

the lady that ran my school's lunch room, rest her soul, loved me, since i wasn't afraid to volunteer to help with the "dirty work" collection trays and doing the dishes.... well, i was a slave to her home-made from scratch cookies.

i volunteer to work even now that i'm grown, and it amazes me how spoiled the kids are these days. some of the lunch ladies that still work there from when i was a student tell me that it's a cold day in hell when one of these kids volunteers to help with ANYTHING, much less the lunch room... even for the freebie meal.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

8. It's worth noting

that at the end of the article, it's pointed out that some districts won't even do that.

It's a disgusting situation.

[Lost in CT]

86. Most districts never did this. The school is bending over backward

to accommodate parents who apparently could care less about their own children.

[Donnachaidh]

9. In Newt Gingrich country, it's crackers and milk -- unbelievable, but true.

One of the wealthiest counties in Georgia gives CRACKERS to kids who haven't got the cash to pay for their crappy lunches.

[HopeHoops]

14. I had the horror of a Montgomery Cty, MD school for 1 1/2 years - richest in MD - WORST LUNCHES !!!

My wife taught in rural SC and they fed the kids great meals on next to nothing. They couldn't even afford to keep the bathroom paper products stocked in that school. It was all made pretty much from scratch and almost everyone (if not everyone) working in the kitchen was a parent or grandparent of the kids in the school. Fresh cornbread rocks!

With all the money being thrown at corrupt people, it is a disgrace that we can't be bothered to feed a decent meal to any kid that can't afford it. A hungry kid just isn't going to learn as well. But wait - the GOP has that in mind! Keep people ignorant and you can get their votes! NOW I've got it!!

[carlyhippy]

18. in our area there are some rural schools

Those kids eat pretty darn well. They get homemade cooking at breakfast and lunch.

[Donnachaidh]

26. and the kids in Newt country get crappy pre-proccessed swill

from contractors with *connections* to the politicians and the school board members. Most likely no-bid contracts *nudge nudge wink wink* repuke connections.

[DumpDavisHogg]

12. I'm amazed at all the Freeper-like comments I'm seeing here

I expect better than that here.

(Actually I've only seen one or two Freeper-like comments about this here, but still it's too many.)

If the lunches received by the poor students are so great, then why aren't the schools making the rich students eat the same thing?

What the schools are doing is driven by sheer meanness.

[barb162]

27. Take a look at the photo in the article

DO you notice the ($$$$) steel front side by side refrigerator in the pretty large kitchen with what looks like upgraded cabinets? There's not enough info to tell if the family is overspending on "stuff" or what is really going on. I know too many people who spend irresponsibly then complain they don't have money for basics. Whether this is one of them, again, can't tell.

[Alcibiades]

43. The refrigerator looks like it might be a cheap one

They make some pretty cheap models today that look like brushed stainless. The cabinets, though, are real hardwood cabinets with panel doors.

They clearly are not living in what I would call poverty, unless that's not their kitchen.

[Javaman]

74. The cabinets are probably just new doors. the refrig looks like an old whirlpool..

I know, because I have one that looks very much like it. Ours is 12 years old.

the bigger matter here is this: hard working family, trying to make ends meet in a shitty economy left to us as his* legacy for all to endure. Average folks, people. step back and see the larger picture. Kids are hungry. period.

the depression this time around won't be of people pushing west for a better life in california, it will be people doing all they can to keep their sanity.

[DumpDavisHogg]

107. The fridge looks like one of those from 1988 that never worked to begin with (n/t)

[barb162]

136. I think they didn't have the steel fronts back then. Try again.

Those came in about the early to mid 90s.

[DumpDavisHogg]

140. Wow, a broken fridge from 1993. Yeah, they're really living it up. (n/t)

[barb162]

142. Now it's broken? Do you have some extra news tips no one else has here?

:eyes:

Wow, my fridge is from the early 90s and still works. Maybe you should buy the family a new fridge since you are so sure theirs is broken and make it a $5000 model while you're at it.

[sandnsea]

41. If the rich kid doesn't pay

The rich kid gets a cheese sandwich.

This is really ridiculous. As so many of us have said, this was our regular lunch that our parents provided to us when we were kids. Every day for 12 years. When my kids got reduced price lunches, there was NOTHING if I didn't pay, no back-up at all. This is a kindness that these schools are being beaten up for. It's unbelievable.

[DumpDavisHogg]

102. Nope, this is what's really ridiculous...

Low-income kids are probably being fed spoiled food, which is why one of them said she felt like throwing up.

And it's all being defended here.

A cold cheese sandwich, a slice of fruit, and 8 ounces of skim milk is not an adequate lunch for a growing child.

I remember how even when I got a bigger lunch than this I would be starving by 3 PM.

[sandnsea]

116. Ever had a school lunch?

They're all the same.

Poor kids, truly poor kids, have free lunch and aren't part of this equation to begin with.

I suspect it's mostly kids who are getting reduced priced lunches and their parents run short before payday. The regular lunches are likely to be digested by 3pm just as well as the sandwich, fruit and milk. All kids are starving when they get home from school.

This is one of the most ridiculous complaints yet. Parents get food stamps, reduced price breakfast and lunch, and can't manage to make sure the kid has food every day?? Really absurd.

[barb162]

135. Maybe the parents should prepare some food before the kids

leave in the morning (out of that $$$$ steel side by side frig in that big kitchen) and then the child won't feel like vomiting.

I'd always be starving by 3pm too and I had about the same for lunch, but it wasn't free to my parents and I wasn't complaining about it and it sure wasn't written up in the newspapers.

If I didn't bring food with me from home I would have eaten nothing until I got back home. Somehow I survived quite well.

Maybe the parents in this story can serve a bigger breakfast and dinner.

[Name removed]

204. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[barb162]

133. I think you're very, very right..

For my entire elementary school years, if I forgot to bring a sandwich from home with me, I didn't eat until I got back home. Period. The only thing that was free was the water from the water fountain.

Did you notice the story never explains why the kids aren't taking food from home? Why nothing at all is being prepared from this home? There's a lot unstated in this story.

[ravenna_windream]

15. To the guy who can't believe

Some cannot afford even less than 2 dollars, it's possible, it happens. And with the way things are right now, it's especially more common. Sometimes the essentials take up all the money including change and other money that is scraped up. Food, rent, utilities, mortgages, gas for transportation, auto insurance... uh yeah.

You never know an individual's economic situation. You may think everyone has change lying around - nope.

[WolverineDG]

48. then they qualify for free or reduced-fee lunch

and what's stopping them from filling out the paperwork?

dg

[mbperrin]

61. Homeless don't qualify, for one. Have to have a permanent address on the form.

There's also mean administrators who just make a person feel like shit for signing up.

[WolverineDG]

77. Then how did they get enrolled in school?

My bs meter is going off now.....

dg

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WolverineDG]

110. You still need to provide an address that is in the district

careful who you call lazy & dumbass. It's a logical question. If they don't have an address so they can get a free lunch, how did they get registered for school? And how does referencing a school's dropout prevention plan have anything to do with providing an address for a free school lunch?

dg

[mbperrin]

145. I WAS careful.

You just didn't like hearing it.

[WolverineDG]

157. Just like you didn't like hearing about how mom ignored calls & letters from the school nt

[mbperrin]

146. I also find it funny that a so called adult (you) would find being labelled

on a message board by someone you don't even know that you would bother to have the comment deleted, but are Ok with a child being humiliated in person in front of all the people that know them.

Wow.

[WolverineDG]

158. You didn't follow the rules

not my fault you got alerted.

And it's not "humiliation" to feed a child a cheese sandwich after her own mother didn't care enough about her to contact the school.

dg

[Scout]

207. anyone can alert on an inappropriate post ... it doesn't have to be the person

who was mistreated.

[mbperrin]

287. I'm not complaining about the alert. It's the other person who wants to

crow over it.

I've used intemperate language before, and I'll probably use more in the future.

Complete *&^*%^&*$%(%(*)&*)( bring that out in me.

[mbperrin]

106. It's not just a local west Texas issue, either.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/07/AR2009020702015_pf.html
Schools Face Sharp Rise In Homeless Students
Educators Rush to Offer Help Amid Bad Economy
By Maria Glod
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, February 8, 2009; C01

[WolverineDG]

111. You still have to show that you live somewhere in the district

so your argument about not getting a free lunch because of no address is getting you nowhere. They still have to provide **some** address in the district (since schools have to educate those students who can prove they live in their district), so why not use that address for the free lunch form? Locally, they can use the address of the homeless shelter.

dg

[mbperrin]

129. Get some facts, please. Child is enrolled with no address at all.

There are no shelters in Odessa Texas that you can stay at for more than a night at a time.

Free lunch is a federal program administered by the local districts. Different rules than state law mandating public education.

Anything else at all on your mind that 2 minutes Google would help?

I am in the education business, and I will try to enlighten your ignorant carcass if I can.

But I must say, a punitive attitude, lack of empathy for others, and minimal reading and thinking skills do pose a challenge.

[WolverineDG]

156. Lack of empathy? Think again. Ignorant? Read the article

The school district had a problem & bent over backwards to prevent handing out the cheese sandwiches (2 full weeks of free meals for elementary kids, AFTER their lunch money ran out, daily phone calls to the parents, & weekly notes sent home with the kids). Excuse me for thinking that Mom should have responded &/or done something about it when she was given ample time (almost a month) to get things straightened out. I don't get this sense of "entitlement" to a free lunch or that pointing out that mom should have gotten off her duff is "punitive" & "lacking empathy."

And I'm sure there are agencies out there who can help your homeless child with an address--did you volunteer your own? No? Wow, you're one to talk about not having empathy.

dg

[Ms. Toad]

168. Perhaps you could enlighten

"your own ignorant carcass" first.

No address is required for the program, and the local schools are expressly forbidden from even delaying processing the form because of the lack of non-required information, such as a street address.

See my other post on the topic, or check it out here for yourself in the federal program administration manual: http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/Lunch/

[nanatois]

171. Homeless kids do qualify

In my part of Texas, Homeless kids do qualify for free lunches. Just like by law they have a right to attend school. And this cheese sandwich lunch is not to humiliate anyone. It is to insure that no child goes hungry. Rich kids who haven't brought money in 2 weeks get the same meal. So it is not to humiliate the poor children. The lunch ladies know the children and don't pull them out of line, they just put the food on their tray.Rich kid , poor kid, it is done the same way. How do I know, my child has gotten those sandwiches. We don't qualify for free lunches. And his grandmother is a lunch lady and we have discussed it.

[Scout]

209. perhaps you are part of the problem with our education system today

i don't suppose you think it's too humiliating for a student to hold them back a grade, even though they can't do the work, do you? we wouldn't want to hurt their self esteem, you know. although, if you can't do much of anything, what is there to hold in esteem?

[mbperrin]

272. What I do think is that it would be bad to have all the kids at their

graduation waiting in line, then pull out the ones not graduating to the next grade in front of everyone else, and giving them a different certificate than everyone

else, one that says YOU FAILED!!!!! in big red letters.

Or perhaps you think the public humiliation would serve as an incentive for better performance in the future?

And what about the students who have actually satisfactorily completed all work to pass, but have not passed the standardized tests given by private for profit corporations

who have never show any validity to those tests? They won't be promoted, either. That OK with you? State of Texas spends many hundreds of millions on these bullshit tests

that are designed to earn money for corporations, both by selling the tests and then selling remedial programs to those who fail.

And if that's OK, why not spend a few pennies feeding every child without humiliation and shame for something they have no control over? - their parents.

[Thothmes]

120. What does the wise and benevolent government

in Washington that pays for this program require as far as paperwork is concerned.

[sandnsea]

124. Absolutely nothing

If your child is enrolled, you claim your income, give ss#s, and/or put your food stamps info down. It's one page, that's it. School meal programs are the easiest benefit to get and they go through very very quickly. Now, they used to provide the full free lunch until the paperwork was processed. If they stopped doing that, well then that is pretty shitty. But if the parent doesn't send the reduced lunch money, then giving the child food is an extra benefit that they didn't used to provide at all.

[Ms. Toad]

166. From the federal manual:

From the section on determining if an application is complete:

<<Income Eligibility
A complete application must provide:
* the names of all household members;
* the amount and source of current income by each member and the source of the income;
* the signature of an adult household member; and
* the complete social security number of the adult household member who signs the application or an indication that the household member does not have one.

<snip>

The LEA (Local educational agency) must not delay approval of the application if the household fails to provide any information that is not required. For example, if the household fails to include its street address, processing of the application cannot be delayed.>>

http://www.fns.usda.gov/cnd/Lunch/

The school cannot refuse to accept an application that does not have an address (permanent or otherwise).

Edited to add link.

[Scout]

205. so they would let their children go hungry because some school administrator

was "mean" to them? they don't deserve to be parents.

for god's sake, i can't believe how stupid some people on here are ... no wonder liberals get a bad name for being "too soft" ...

[mrbarber]

56. I'd think being able to afford $1-$2 dollars a day to feed your child....

Would be considered an essential.

If you can't, than make food for the kids at home to take with them, using EBT or food stamps if you have to.

[Bill McBlueState]

164. wow,

you should write an advice column for your local paper to help out poor people. It's really that simple, huh? Food stamps magically meet all your needs, do they?

[Marrah_G]

169. If you are on food stamps you automatically qualify for free lunch- no money needed

If you are low income you get reduced rate.

[Stellabella]

231. And you have to fill out the form.

God only knows why some of these people don't, but they don't.

I don't know if it's mental illness or drug use or being drunk all the time, but it happens often.

DON'T PUNISH THE CHILDREN.

[Marrah_G]

236. The problem is that without the form the school gets less federal dollars

That is why they NEED the forms filled out. ESPECIALLY in low income areas.

[Stellabella]

257. And?

The focus here is still on punishing the child.

My husband deals with this every single day. What have YOU done to help hungry children? Huh?

[Name removed]

259. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[carlyhippy]

16. It sounds like this mom needs to go and apply for free lunches for her kids

if she cant afford to feed her kids lunch at school, she needs to get on assistance. I guess they have to by law feed the elementary kids at lunch, whether they have money or not. At my kids' high school if they don't have the money, they either have to borrow from a friend or they don't get to eat.

A cheese sandwich, fruit and milk isn't all that bad, peanut butter would be better (well, maybe not in light of the recent salmonella outbreak), that may be all that poor kid gets to eat all day.

[barb162]

22. Yes, or fix them something at home and they carry their lunch with them.

I am not getting enough info from this story

[Romulox]

17. I often went without as a child--no free alternative. nt

[Brucie Kibbutz]

24. This country is a disgrace.

Decent meals only for kids who's parents are paying customers. The United States sucks.

[tanngrisnir3]

25. Why isn't that a decent meal?

[Brucie Kibbutz]

30. Because it sucks.

[tanngrisnir3]

OK, so why does it suck? You'll have to do better than that.

[Brucie Kibbutz]

38. I don't have to do anything.

Maybe you thought I was debating you. :shrug:

Go eat a cheese sandwich or something.

[tanngrisnir3]

40. I guess you're right. You can simply not back up your statements...

and continue to look like a clown.

Hey, good luck with that.

[Brucie Kibbutz]

51. Back up my statements?

I think cheese sandwiches suck. What else is there to say? Am I supposed to quote some government statistics that *prove* to you they suck?

silly

[tanngrisnir3]

54. Perhaps I misunderstood you. I thought you meant....

that the meal, as a whole, was bad because it was deficient in something or for some other specific reason other than your personal distaste for the sandwich. You said it wasn't a 'decent' meal when, quite clearly, it is.

[Brucie Kibbutz]

67. Noble defender of the cheese sandwich.

:patriot:

[Laelth]

181. Cheese makes me vomit.

I agree. Cheese sandwiches suck.

And I'd be ashamed if I got one while other people got something better.

Of course, shame can be a powerful motivator. Perhaps I'd be inspired to get a job ... that's what the conservatives want, right? A return to the good old days of industrial child labor! And if that's not what they want, why do they condone punishing a child for his or her parents' failures?

:shrug:

-Laelth

[fedupwithbush]

188. When you are hungry, it taste pretty good.

When I was in school, I was a free lunch student. However our cards were color coded, so a lot of times I didn't eat because of that. I went on to work in the kitchen in high school and get lunch paid.

But at home we ate what we had. Anyone here remember commodities? Canned chicken, dry milk, dried eggs, etc.? They taste pretty good when they are all you have.

A lot of you are missing a point. The school is TRYING to feed every student as best it can. The school is trying to not cut food quality, staff, equipment, etc. But somethings have to have an end point. You CAN'T feed a student every day for free without some money coming in. If the parent qualifies for free lunches, they should and must fill out the paperwork. The school has to be able to BUY the food the students are eating.

I could write a book on this subject. But just remember one thing. The schools DO have a budget just like you do when you go to a grocery store. They really try to feed the students to the best of their ability. But they can't subsidize students who either aren't bringing money or their parents haven't filled out the paperwork for free or reduced.

And they cannot feed students for free as in no reimbursement whatever for very long. Could you?

[Regret My New Name]

148. I like cheese sandwiches..

I'd a cheese sandwich on some wheat bread before I'd eat some greasy cardboard school pizza. I like fruit too..

I don't think the food itself sucks... The only thing that could suck is that it may single the kid out from the rest of the school... But hey, I'd think it would help the kids out if they all had similar lunches without all the unhealthy crap...

[tanngrisnir3]

36. Oops, double post.

[WolverineDG]

39. Just because it "sucks" doesn't mean it's not a decent meal

As my brother would say "Are both your arms broken? You can't make a damn sandwich?"

It isn't too hard for mom or dad to make a sandwich of the child's choosing, cookies, apple, & a thermos of kool aid if they can't afford to pay for a school lunch. And if they do qualify for free or reduced lunch, perhaps they should get off their butts & fill out the paper work. Of course, they'd have to take precious time away from watching sports on TV or scrapbooking or whatever, & actually take care of their own kids for a switch.

dg

[BrightKnight]

63. School lunch is the only "decent" meal that some of these

kids get. Do school lunch programs still exist. Perhaps the parents simply are not filling out the paper work. Perhaps the parents are too lazy or poor to make sack lunches. Whatever the reason the cost of solving the problem is not that hight. The educational benefits proper nourishment is very high.

If you saw some kid being given a cheese sandwich when all of her peers were eating warm meals would you really do nothing? I can't be there to buy her lunch. School lunch is a better use of tax dollars than a lot of programs that I have seen.

--

I know a teacher that buys a large bag of cheap cereal every few weeks for some of her students. It is difficult to teach someone that is always hungry.

[WolverineDG]

76. So maybe that should motivate mom to get the paperwork done

and if it doesn't she shouldn't be whining about the free ride she's getting. A cheese sandwich, apple, & milk is still a decent meal, and a damn sight more than most children in the world eat in a week. If it was only ONE child, it wouldn't make that much difference to the school district's budget to give them the regular meal, but it's not & that $ adds up quickly.

dg

[AnneD]

82. I work as a School Nurse....

Our school district offers FREE BREAKFAST to every child that arrives from 7:30-7:55. You wouldn't believe how many parents can't manage that. This is why I have little sympathy for some of these parents.

I keep some extra stuff for really hungry kids because I care. But frankly-I have no use for their lazy assed parents. When I delivered my baby-I didn't see any of these kids faces that I personally feed. If you are going to have kids, be a responsible parent. I don't mind helping poor parents that are responsible. Poverty is not a crime, but not stepping up to the plate and taking care of you kid is a crime. It's called neglect.

[Marrah_G]

170. Those school breakfasts were a life saver when my kids were younger.

They are in HS now and just grab something on the way out the door. But when my son was in elementary and middle school he always left early to get breakfast at school.

[AnneD]

173. That's what upsets me....

We offer one free meal to any and every child-breakfast. They have to be at school anyway-and even with a free meal-I have kids coming to my office hungry because they didn't get breakfast. Next thing you know, I'll be expected to go to their house and feed them personally.

I just get upset with folks that don't take advantage of what is available. Instead-I personally, un refunded, out of my own pocket-feed these kids because their lazy assed parents can't be bothered to do their job. I don't like to see kids going hungry, but some parents are selfish and put their wants ahead of their child's needs.

[Marrah_G]

180. I agree- far to many parents don't put their children first

I think it comes from being raised in homes where kids are spoiled. They don't have to care about others. They dont have to respect others feelings and property.

I think the less you have growing up the more you appreciate the world and other people.

Between my kids (we are lower working class) and my wealthy cousin's children..... mine are far more prepared to meet the world. Hers couldn't make toast for themselves and would be appalled at the idea that others might not automatically share their toast with them simply because they are so darned precious.

[Scout]

213. one of the best posts in this thread

"Poverty is not a crime, but not stepping up to the plate and taking care of you kid is a crime. It's called neglect."

[AnneD]

239. I am forever trying to get that point across to the new teachers......

They send me a kid that hasn't washed his hair in a while, whose uniform clothes may not be as clean, or face not scrubbed. They may be tardy more often. They want me to call CPS when the problem is one of poverty not child abuse.

It is hard for these young newly minted teacher that came from middle class families to understand that: poor families can't throw the few clothes they have in a washer every time it gets dirty. They go to the laundry mat when they have money and sometimes when things are really tight they wash their clothes by hand.

Some times the power is shut off and alarm clocks don't go off in the morning. Water may have to be heated by hand as the house is-by a stove. Less than perfect food may have to be eaten before it spoils.

Some of these parent take care of these kids as best they can. Yes they may be late at times and their clothes may not be the cleanest-but their families care enough about them to get the free lunch paperwork in so these kids have at least 1 maybe 2 hot meals a day.

I have gone on many a house visit and saw things that will curl your hair....that this even exists in America is a crime. And I go out of my way to help those in need.

But I have no sympathy for those that are lazy, game the system and shirk their duty to their children. And after 16 years in this business-I have a well honed bull shit detector and can tell poverty from neglect.

Thanks for the kind words.

[Laelth]

182. Preaching (telling people what they "should" do) never solves social problems.

I presume you understand that.

As a liberal, I want a government that deals with reality as it is, not as it "should be." It might make me feel better to tell other people what they "should do" to solve their own problems, but preaching to them doesn't fix anything.

Whether or not there's a problem here that needs fixing is another question altogether. Some here think there is a problem; others, evidently, do not. That's fine, but I can't support preaching as a solution. It never is, and it's the typical conservative response to problems conservatives see but don't want to pay to fix.

Preaching is an excuse for greed.

:dem:

-Laelth

[kiva]

225. You have a different sort of reality then.

You want the government to deal with reality? Here it is: our president has made it clear that we will not be leaving either Iraq or Afghanistan soon, so the massive hemorrhage to fund these wars will not stop soon. We will continue to bail out Wall Street, and the banking system because the alternative (we are told) to too horrible to face. Any funding made available to assist working Americans will, and should, be spent on creating and maintaining jobs so the we can support ourselves and our families.

We will not be funding free school lunches for all schoolchildren. School districts will not be able to absorb tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars of debts from parents who choose not to pay for their children's lunches--and before you cry foul, it's been made abundantly clear in this thread that getting assistance from the federal school lunch fund is simple and fast; if you don't qualify for this program, then yes, you can afford to pay for you childrens' lunch.

Don't like listening to people 'preach' about what people should do to solve their problems? As the economy tightens and Americans are asked to pay increasing amounts to support other families, then expect to hear more advice.

[Laelth]

244. Huh?

I hope you feel better.

:dem:

-Laelth

[totodeinhere]

70. A cheese sandwich, milk, and fruit is much more nutritional than the junk food that a lot of kids..

get in school. I don't see anything wrong with it. In fact, personally, I love cheese sandwiches and fresh fruit. Hopefully, the milk they serve is low fat.

[ozu]

80. my high school

My high school had a partnership with Taco Bell and Pizza Hut that accounted for 70% of the hot lunches served on a daily basis. And we had a candy store as well.

Seriously, I'd rather the fruit and cheese sandwich than just about everything our school served. It's way healthier.

[nanatois]

31. I agree

with comment 29

[Tikki]

69. If you are willing to take money out of the conversation, I will tell you...

that a cheese sandwich, a piece of fruit and a carton of milk has nutritional value....and for
a 4 to 7 year old...that might be closer to the calorie intake they need during that time of the day.

You start getting into the needs of students who may shoot up 5 inches taller in less than a year
and you are talking about nutrition and caloric needs.

So, it would be alright with you if the school district gave an 8th grader, 3 cheese sandwiches, 3 pieces of
fruit and 3 cartons of milk...yes?


Tikki

[Tikki]

49. The average 13 year old boy needs between 1,800 to 2,000 calories...

a day to function.

A cheese sandwich, a piece of fruit and a carton of milk is only around 400 calories..
during the middle of their busy day...

Tikki

The free and reduced lunch forms, or information about these forms, needs
to go out to parents more often during the school year.

You have to qualify to get free or reduced lunch...sometimes the situation that qualifies
a family arises well after school has started in the autumn.

[Lost in CT]

37. Actually poor parents children get "decent meals" as well

This person can't be bothered to fill out a form to get her child free lunches and can't be bothered to pack her own child a lunch then has the audacity to complain about a perfectly fine free lunch her child is given?

[BrightKnight]

65. It's about the child not the parent. - n/t

[Lost in CT]

108. If the parent was responsible the child would be eating a hot lunch. nt

[nanatois]

29. I don't get the anger

We do have free lunch if parents apply. My kids now get a cheese sandwich, a piece of fruit and milk on weekends. I think it is actually healthier than processed fried food, french fries and punch. As long as the cafeteria workers do it tactfully and parents are told about applying for free and reduced, then that is okay. I know I can afford it but have failed to send money (or my child pocketed the money) and at least my child was fed. It would be so much worse if the child was turned away. I think the school district should be applauded. They are insuring that no child is turned away because of poverty.

[Brucie Kibbutz]

34. Not taking shots at the school district.

I think the OP said:

"You know, with all the billions we've "lost" to Halliburton and other criminal organizations, you would THINK we could at least afford to feed lunch to all of our children whether they can pay for it or not - and a slice of processed American cheese food product on white bread isn't much of a lunch."

I have to agree.

[totodeinhere]

87. Let's be fair. The article does not say that it is...

"a slice of processed American cheese food product on white bread." Hopefully it's real low fat cheese on whole grain bread. And if it is, it would be very nutritious.

[Stargazer09]

32. Every school district I've been in since becoming a mom...

... offers free or reduced-price lunches to people with a financial need. If she's having that much trouble, why doesn't she apply for those programs?

If the mom can't qualify for the programs, then the solution is to get up a few minutes earlier each day and make a sack lunch for her daughters. Sure, hot lunch at school is more convenient, but you do save a lot of money making lunches for your kids. This is particularly true if the kids are picky and rarely eat the hot lunch anyway.

Our school district has gone to an electronic system, where the parents go online and pre-pay for the meals. That prevents kids from using their lunch money for something else, and it makes budgeting easier.

I don't really see how the schools are supposed to subsidize lunch for kids who don't pay for their school lunches. The free/reduced-price program should be an option for these families.

[Ms. Toad]

33. It's not a slice of processsed American cheese food

product on white bread. It's a cold cheese sandwich, fruit and a milk carton. That's equivalent to what I eat most lunches.

The federal government provides free and reduced price meals for those who qualify. Parents can't afford a dollar a day probably qualify. For whatever reason, a number of those parents aren't processing the paper work - which means that the school has to take the money out of its pocket (and out of teacher's salaries, extra-curricular activities, counseling, etc) to feed the kids when the money could have come from by the federal government.

They have already identified 2000 kids in this category - the federal money available for these kids would pay several teacher's salaries, and if you deduct the cost of the sandwich, fruit, and milk that the school is no longer providing to these kids without any compensation, the savings is even greater.

I don't have much patience for people who complain about the poor quality food their children are being served when they are eligible for free or reduced priced lunches AND their failure to apply for these meals actually hurts the rest of the school district by requiring these schools to shift money from educating all who attend to providing more luxurious free meals for those who have chosen not to take advantage of the federal subsidy.

[WolverineDG]

42. If the parents just can't get it in gear to fill out a few forms

then they shouldn't whine when their kids get a cheese sandwich. At least they're getting SOMETHING to eat. If the schools didn't do this, the kids would go hungry.

dg

[wellst0nev0ter]

95. Read. The. Fucking. Article.

Second-grader Danessa Vigil said she will never eat sliced cheese again. She had to eat cheese sandwiches because her mother couldn't afford to give her lunch money while her application for free lunch was being processed.

Besides that, spare me your "sucks for you" attitude in this age of corporate bailouts.

[sandnsea]

119. OMG, it takes a whole week!

My kids were on free or reduced lunches for 20+ years. They never, and I mean never, went to school without food. Not Ever. They did, however, sometimes go to school with a cheese sandwich, fruit and milk. This article is complete bullshit and any parent who has been there, knows it.

[Ms. Toad]

143. I have read the article, as well as the previous article.

In case you haven't been through the process, the standard time to apply for free meals is the fall. It is February, so if the mom is just now filing out the paperwork chances are her child has already been getting free meals for over a semester. The school district in question had several hundred thousands of dollars of outstanding lunch bills, and the amount was expected to double by the end of the school year. The policy was adopted to stop the monetary loss, as well as to provide an incentive (i.e. a less attractive meal) to encourage either paying the bills off (for those who can afford to - but just keep forgetting) or applying for free or reduced price lunches. In addition, as I recall from the last article, elementary students continued to be given hot meals for 10 days before being switched to the cheese sandwich meal.

Sorry, but the meal provided meets the basic nutritional needs of the children - there is no reason that money should be taken from educational programs for everyone in order to continue to provide more appetizing meals for students whose parents have not paid their bills and/or have not bothered to apply for assistance (or didn't bother until several months after the applications were available for the year).

It is not a "sucks for you" attitude, it is an acknowledgment that our schools are nearly universally struggling. Every bit of local money is needed to meet the basic educational needs of all children enrolled, and should not be used to pay for things for which there is another funding source (i.e. hot meals for children who truly cannot afford them).

[Turbineguy]

35. Yeah, it's going to take a while

before we get out of this Republican Paradise, and some do not yet want to leave.

[redqueen]

243. Yep, sure looks that way. (nt)

[TygrBright]

44. Given how well-established the link between good nutrition and learning capacity is...

...I am not at all surprised that under GOPpie administrations the issue of school breakfast/lunch has been allowed to get past the s-bend.

The last thing they want is healthy, prepared-to-learn kids capable of wrinkling their brows and muttering "WTF?" when some schmuck tells them that "intelligent design" is just as valid a "theory" as evolution.

exasperatedly,
Bright

[totodeinhere]

72. Yes, but a cheese sandwich, milk, and fruit is nutritional.

I'm assuming that it's low fat milk and hopefully they use whole grain bread. Sloppy joe's, hot dogs, french fries, chips, cheeseburgers and the like, which are standard fair on a lot of school menus for kids who do have lunch money, are not so nutritious however.

[TygrBright]

187. The quality of the ingredients matters greatly.

All of the things you mention can have fine nutritional value if prepared from quality ingredients and served in appropriate quantities in balance with other foods. Cheese sandwich, milk, and fruit can be utterly anutritious if (for example) the flour is a denatured, chemically-enhanced factory product and the bread itself is made with high-fructose corn syrup and chemicals, the milk served for drinking and the milk used in making the cheese is the result of industrial dairy plants where cows are fed factory-farmed, feed-grade corn and meat-derived proteins, dosed heavily with antibiotics and other chemicals, and given artificial hormones to maximize production, the cheese is made with polymerizing agents, preservatives, and "flavor enhancers," and the fruit comes from agribusiness contractor "orchards" using commercial varieties bred for appearance, shipping tolerance, and "shelf life" rather than flavor.

Almost ALL of our school lunch programs, both the ones for kids with "lunch money" or subsidies, and the "freebies," are pretty much designed to be empty calories, virtually devoid of any nutritional value, but highly consumptive of the government-subsidized products of factory agribusiness.

A real school lunch program would rely on local produce, prepared fresh on site in quantities sufficient for the day's need, using a minimum of industrially-produced foodlike substances. If enhanced with teaching and learning units about the difference between what we knew about nutrition twenty years ago (the old "protein/carbohydrate/fat, minimum-daily-requirement, calorie-based" model,) and what we are learning today (the subtleties of how the human digestive system processes material based on its physical state, how it was prepared, what it is consumed in conjunction with, the variations among individuals in digestive profiles, native intestinal fauna, tolerance for various forms of carbohydrates, proteins, fats, etc.) we'd be able to boost health AND learning capability together, and give children what they need to maintain health for life.

And no, it needn't cost THAT much, as several pilot programs have illustrated.

But it wouldn't be very profitable for agribusiness.

So it's not going to happen.

And we'll keep feeding kids HFCS-laced bread, plastic cheese, pseudofruit, and antibiotic and hormone-laced "milk."

They'll stay plenty docile.

gloomily,
Bright

[ConcernedCanuk]

46. I'm 58 years old - sometimes I eat the cheese with NO bread, no fruit and no milk

.
.
.

"A cold cheese sandwich, fruit and a milk carton might not seem like much of a meal"

well I'll tell ya - you can live on a whole less than that

FOR A WHOLE DAY!

I know - I've been doing it lately just to keep my truck on the road, and pay for heat and hydro

so they should be grateful for the free meal . . .

even my bi-weekly food-bank supplement only amounts to about 4-5 days food

and not much variety either

for a cold cheese sandwich, fruit and a milk carton guaranteed every day

I'D GO BACK TO SCHOOL!

TOMORROW!

[Starry Messenger]

261. At 58 you are no longer growing...right?

I hope you are joking. Children cannot grow and learn on what you purport to live on. Maybe you DO need to go back to school. Hmmm.

[madrchsod]

47. for some kids schools is the only place....

to get a decent breakfast and lunch.

if we can not feed the hunger children what fucking good are we....

[Jackpine Radical]

50. Your thinking is backwards.

What with us pissing away all that money for cheese spread and bread for the poor, there's really not enough left for those well-deserved bonuses to Halliburton executives.

[UndertheOcean]

55. How much will this save ? ... ha

way to humiliate little kids.

[HopeHoops]

90. exactly.

[redqueen]

96. It's not humiliatin'... that there's a good quality meal!

Why... when I was in school, we got rocks! ROCKS! And we LIKED IT!

[mbperrin]

131. Rocks?! YOU got ROCKS??!!

All we got was low quality leftover burned charcoal, and I'm tellin' ya - we LOVED it!

If we'd had cheese served up with insults - HEAVEN ON EARTH!

Right after dad came home drunk and killed all of us ever' night just before bedtime....

[Ms. Toad]

144. I can't find the original article with the numbers in it,

but this year the outstanding balance was $140,000 (probably two teachers' salaries). My recollection is that the past balances, plus what they anticipated in new debts would be around $600,000.

The school can either push the parents to bring that money into the school system via the federal lunch program, or it can cut several teachers. That is a no-brainer to me. (And it seems to be working - they have identified 2000 additional students who are eligible for federal subsidy, and collected $40,000 from parents who apparently were just taking advantage of the fact that their children were being provided a hot lunch without having to pay for it.)

[Ms. Toad]

172. Self-correction -

since it's too late to edit.

The anticipated debt by the end of the year would be around $300,000. That's still 2-4 teachers (depending on experience, education and benefit level) that could, essentially, be paid for by the federal government if the school district can motivate parents to apply for the available funding (or can motivate parents who CAN afford the meals to pay their bills).

There are far too many unfunded mandates imposed on local school districts to ignore capturing the money for the ones that are funded; absent unconscionable strings attached to the funding, any school district is not being fiscally responsible if it takes money from local funds to pay for a program that is intended to be easily funded by federal money.

[ismnotwasm]

71. No shit

(That last sentence)

And there are some mean ass self righteous people on this thread.

[AnneD]

78. When my daughter was a teen, just the fact that I drew breath....

was a source of embarrassment. So some of this may be hard to avoid. I had free and reduced lunches and I was just hungry enough that I didn't care what other kids said- and I did take some razzing. Kids can be talked to and made to understand.

But facts are facts. Schools are in as tight a squeeze as ever. The cost for free and reduced lunches are free or very reduced. DUH. If folks situations have changed the apps. for free lunch can be changed too. I see lots of families that can't cough up money the pay their reduced cafeteria account but the kids have money to buy ice cream and chips every day. I have no sympathy. Eat those chips with a cheese sandwich and be thankful you aren't starving.

And the bottom line....kids can always pack a lunch. No I am not being heartless or stupid. Even when we qualified and were very poor, we could always afford a PBJ if we were self conscious. Sis was sensitive and took a thinly spread PBJ and a bag apple rather than get a reduced lunch. I went for the hot lunch-but if mom had not paid (very rare), I took what they offered or packed lunch for myself if I didn't want to be bugged.

Sorry to be grumpy, but I have been to countries where they would be grateful for school-let alone a cheese sandwich. Folks need to get real.

[katusha]

113. let's get real together

public schools and the education of the nation are a benefit to society as a whole. better nutrition helps the citizenry of this country learn better, so it is an aide to education just as surely as chalkboards and school nurses are. the benefits to all of society for educating the citizenry of the nation far outweighs your being offended by a few freeloaders.

now let me ask you before i go any further, how much food does your school cafeteria throw away at the end of the school day?

[mbperrin]

130. Ding! ding! Winner!

Feeding kids is the right thing to do for all the right reasons, and we have more than enough resources to do it.

Thank you!

[Scout]

212. if feeding kids is the right thing to do, why don't their parents bother to do it? n/t

[katusha]

214. yes, that's right. if they don't have bread let them eat cake n/t

[Scout]

215. you need to get a life

you've obviously lost control of yourself here

the parents are responsible for making sure their children get fed....

if they don't have bread (i don't know where the fuck you got that) then what are they eating for dinner? do the parents eat breakfast, or lunch, or dinner? is there no food in the house?

where the hell DID you come up with this idea that the family doesn't even have, and can't ever afford, to buy a loaf of bread.

your posts are really laughable :rofl:

[katusha]

222. i'm glad i amuse you

"where the hell DID you come up with this idea that the family doesn't even have, and can't ever afford, to buy a loaf of bread."

http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/FoodSecurity/stats_graphs.htm
Very low food security—In these food-insecure households, normal eating patterns of one or more household members were disrupted and food intake was reduced at times during the year because they had insufficient money or other resources for food. In previous reports, these households were described as “food insecure with hunger.” For a description of the change in food security labels, see “Definitions of Hunger and Food Security.”

4.1 percent (4.7 million) of U.S. households had very low food security at some time during 2007.
Essentially unchanged from 4.0 percent in 2006.

Of these individuals, 8.2 million adults and 3.7 million children lived in households with very low food security.

3.7 million hungry children in this country is a LAUGH RIOT! like i said i'm glad to amuse you.

[Scout]

223. uh huh

we are talking about this one family in particular.

so i ask again "where the hell DID you come up with this idea that the family doesn't even have, and can't ever afford, to buy a loaf of bread."

[katusha]

229. pls refer to post 244 above

[Starry Messenger]

262. Some parents are shitty parents...

They are required by law to put their kids in school. We deal with the fallout of their "parenting". I have one kid who never knows if he's getting a ride to school in the morning or not, because he doesn't know which parent he is staying with...the drunk, or the pain-killer addict. I suppose he should starve, too. They don't pack lunches, they have enough money to feed him...they just don't.

[AnneD]

220. We do fairly well...

Three trash cans of scraps and trash. Foam trays are sorted and recycle as are plastic bottles, cans, and aluminum. I looked today and the lunches were roughly consumed as follows:4-5th most were 80-100% eaten, third 50-80% second 50-80% pk,k AND 1ST 30-60%. I think food consumption in the lower grades is because lunch starts at 10:00 and little ones generally pick and consume less anyway. Our lunches run 10:00-1:30 for 650 kids and 50 adults. Don't worry, we give the little ones afternoon snacks and a nap.

[katusha]

228. i'm sorry, i phrased that wrong

not just food thrown away, but food that was prepared for kids but was not sold/portioned. say for example a pan of spaghetti and meatballs is prepared that feeds 30 kids but only 25 kids were served that day, that would leave 5 portions uneaten and unsold/portioned. just curious about the waste percentage of preparation and i must say i have become fascinated with the school cafeteria operation, specifically in elementaries.

[AnneD]

238. There is little waste.....

Fifth graders are allowed to get more if there is some left, but usually there is little if any waste from the cafeteria. That is tightly controlled and monitored throughout the lunch period.I am usually one of the last persons through the line and have never seen more than 1/2 of a steam table tray of anything left over-usually it is less than a 6th, dried out, and inedible. It's all about portion control these days.

[katusha]

247. cool, thanks for the response

it seems like it is about in line with what i thought, approximately 2-5% or so which is about what one would expect in an institutional setting with planned menus etc. sorry to take you off on this tangent but i had to take the opportunity to satisfy a curiosity.

P.S. thak you for helping the children in need that you have, you're a credit to your profession!

[Theobald]

79. My school didn't serve lunch so I never got free lunch

(everybody brown bagged it), but I did get free milk. It was a little embarassing at the time, but it was what it was and you did what you had to do. Kids can be very mean and if it wasn't free milk they were making fun of you for it would be something else. Speaking as someone who ate a lot of peanut butter and jelly, spam, and government cheese (which came in big ass blocks), I can tell you that being poor isn't fun, however the example sited above does not seem worthy of concern to me.

[AnneD]

83. God, I remember those huge blocks of cheese......

we loved grilled cheese sandwiches. A poor man's comfort food....yum

[Chovexani]

151. "Gubmint" cheese made the best mac and cheese on earth

I am not even trying to be funny. My great aunt got it back in the day (and the giant drums of peanut butter, etc) and I don't know what it was about that shit but it made awesome mac n cheese. I think it was the consistency and how it melted into a bechamel sauce.

I have fond childhood memories of eating it at her apt. Not so much about going to the just-this-side-of-PJs building she lived in. :(

Most people on this site have no conception of what it truly means to be poor in America and how the poverty situation has gotten worse and worse over the years. I don't know what it will take to make people compassionate. I just know my heart breaks for any kid that has to go without, or any kid that has to grow up with the stigma of being "less than" because they don't come from means. I wasn't poor growing up, lower middle class raised by a union single mom (RN), but I did go to a rich WASP private school on scholarships during my formative years and I know all too well how cruel kids can be on class issues. I wore hand me down Osh Kosh and had to listen to little Cameron and Emily talk about their weekend jaunts to St Tropez. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if food had been an issue in my house (we may not have had a lot growing up but I never, ever went hungry).

[redqueen]

92. Looks like we have some very effective new trolls around.

Welcome, assholes. :hi:

[TreasonousBastard]

103. Maybe not trolls, just...

too lazy to read the article or too stupid to understand it.

(Yeah, it ain't just freeptown-- we got 'em, too.)

[redqueen]

104. Nah, I'm positive one is a troll.

It's okay... at least one of the annoying little fuckers just went on ignore.

Ahhhhhh. :)

[KamaAina]

99. Bad MSNBC! Seven-year-olds are not "deadbeats".

Their parents may be, but the school is "getting tough" with the kids instead.

[Earth_First]

101. GEMSNBC still perpetuating the class-war...

Third-graders are not "deadbeats".

[Anarcho-Socialist]

141. I know, I think the article title is disgusting

Edit: I notice the story is from Associated Pukes, which figures.

[krabigirl]

109. this is very sad. the mentality in this country makes me sick.

[Lost in CT]

137. I agree these parents should be ashamed.

[w8liftinglady]

117. My son has been the "victim" of cheese sandwiches when it was a few days before payday

actually,I was grateful there was a program in place like that.I would have never qualified for subsidized meals.He actually had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich,milk and fruit,but he never complained.The teachers often brought little goodies for the lunchless kids,and when I became more financially solvent,I donated to those as well.

[Lilith Velkor]

121. I wish I had been - I got to starve instead

That's all I care to say on this topic.

[d_r]

126. sad

I don't want a kid ever going hungry.

When I was a kid if we didn't have lunch money we simply wouldn't have eaten. If you forgot it usually you could borrow change from friends or a teacher. There was free and reduced lunch but if you didn't have that you had to pay.

[Chemical Bill]

132. I'd be happy if my tax money...

went to feed any kid who wanted it, and who cares if parents filled out forms or even if parents are rich. It beats sending my tax money to kill people in Iraq.

Bill

[Regret My New Name]

149. They should make them grilled cheese sandwiches...

Everyone likes grilled cheese sandwiches... Seriously though, why not just plop them on a frying pan for a few minutes? I know it wouldn't solve the core issue, but I bet the kids would enjoy their lunch more.

[donco6]

270. Labor costs.

For a typical lunch prep for 400 kids, I have one 8 hour manager, and 2 3-to-4 hour cooks. They have to prep, serve, clean up and restock in that amount of time. That's all the reimbursement will pay for - and just BARELY that. Plus I have MAYBE 25 minutes to get all the kids through the line. There's no way in hell I can stop to grill sandwiches.

[No Elephants]

160. Even if the parents messed up big time, you don't make a 7 year old pay for it. And humiliating

the kid with the "sandwich of shame" is making the kid pay. Deal with the parent or guardian. Send them a bill, whatever. But don't make if fall on the child just because that's easiest for you.

[WriteDown]

316. So, by extension...

A kid without a permission slip for a field trip should just be allowed to go anyway. If they weren't allowed to, that would really single them out.

[Bill McBlueState]

165. Is the cheese sandwich meal even that much cheaper than the regular meal?

I suspect the "cheese sandwich strategy" is not actually saving the school district that much money.

The article says the district expects to be owed $300,000 in unpaid lunch fees at the end of the year. Eighty students get the cheese sandwich. Let's assume the cheese sandwich meal costs the district $1 per student, while the usual meal costs $2.50 per student.

(80 students) x (180 days) x ($2.50 - $1) = $21,600

Recovering $21,600 barely makes a dent in the school district's $300,000 lunch deficit.

From that, it's not much of a leap to conclude that the "cheese sandwich strategy" is designed not to provide cheaper lunches, but rather to humiliate kids whose parents are behind on the payments. Is that really what we want?

[sandnsea]

192. 80 cheese sandwich lunches

Ten sandwiches per loaf of bread, 8 loaves at 90 cents, $8.00.
Cheese 20 slices per package, $3.00 per pkg, $12.00
80 pieces of fruit at .25 per piece, $20.00.
80 cartons of milk at .25, $20.00.

That's $60.00 per day and they could probably do it even cheaper buying bread and cheese in bulk, and might even be getting commodity cheese and milk for free anyway.

If anybody had read the entire article, they would have been reminded that most districts don't give the kids ANYTHING if the lunch bill isn't paid. This is a courtesy lunch, not an alternative lunch. A kindness that they aren't remotely required to provide. And they're getting the hell beat out of them for it. This is why schools condemn parents for being irresponsible.

[barb162]

279. You're way too sensible.

This school district seems to be going out of its way to help the kids who need help.

[Marrah_G]

167. If they can't afford the lunch, why didn't they fill out reduced lunch forms.

My boys pay 70 cents for lunch (reduced rate) that's 7.00 per week. People who can't afford 7.00 a week would most likely qualify for free lunch.

I am also a single mother.

I couldn't send them to school with complete lunches for less then that.

[Dogmudgeon]

175. I guess we got bored with hating Nadya Suleman

There is no shortage of whipping boys and girls -- this is America, damn it!

--d!

[nichomachus]

177. Corporate CEOs can screw up 10 times a day -- and we give them billions

Little kids -- we will kick the shit out of them.

[mbperrin]

183. That's the spirit!!!

Save those endangered CEOs!

[LaurenG]

178. Sounds like the lunches I used to get.

back in the "olden days" we all ate cheese sandwiches or pb and j. (there were no free lunches for me) We would trade the fruit depending on what someone else had.

[unapatriciated]

184. that's the point

"back in the "olden days" we all ate cheese sandwiches or pb and j. (there were no free lunches for me) We would trade the fruit depending on what someone else had."
We all did it. You we part of the group not an outsider as these children were made to feel. There are better ways to handle it than humiliating them in front of their peers.

[LaurenG]

233. Oh no there have always been others who brought or could afford to buy

better lunches. In fact most of the kids in my neighborhood had a lot more money than we did so yes I was one of the "outsiders". The problem here is that children feel "less than" because they have to eat a regular lunch rather than what there friends were eating.

If the kids were at home I'm sure even the parents of the "better off" kids would be making sandwiches or macaroni and cheese. No one I know ever makes a full course meal at lunch time. I'm sure there are those who feed their kids junk from fast food places though.

As far as their health, they are better off eating simple foods without all the added salt and who knows what else.

Yes I understand that the kids feel stigmatized which has always been part of growing up one way or another. Can we improve that, of course, but for a child to want to throw up because she sees a cheese sandwich is a sign that the parent has issues to address.

My parents didn't try to blame "the system" because they couldn't afford all the things we thought we needed. The fact that the parent isn't teaching her child to be grateful for what she does have tells us tons about what is wrong with our society.

Yes, we have a great deal of work to do to find better ways of doing things but for a parent to allow a child to feel entitled and angry at the school for what the parent failed to do for her child is a great big mistake. All the parents have to do is explain to the child that it is a temporary situation, that "mommy" didn't get the paperwork in on time and that she's sorry that child is humiliated but that it's being rectified. Teach the child that sometimes we have to do things that are uncomfortable but that it'll be OK.

We are a crazy society, maybe the mom can sue the school district over the harm done. :eyes:

[woo me with science]

242. Thank you

for this bit of reason. Best post I've read so far in this thread.

[woo me with science]

241. Yes, and my kid needs Reeboks, too,

because all his friends have them, and he will be humiliated if he is the only kid without $150 sneakers.

Do you even LISTEN to yourself? Eating a cheese sandwich is not and should not be a badge of shame. Shame on you for wanting to reinforce the message that it is.

[unapatriciated]

246. eating a cheese sandwich is not the issue...

the issue for me is pulling a child out of line in front of his peers. I never said it was a badge of shame, I objected with the school involving children in adult problems. I would like to see public schools go back to serving the same healthy lunch for all as part of the budget. Your sneakers argument is another reason I believe in school uniforms. I never bought my kids Reeboks they are way too expensive and made in china using slave labor.
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/reports/021025nike.htm

In raising four children one with a disability I know a little about peer pressure and how hurtful it can be if you are singled out in front of other children. As adults we might think it is nothing, children on the other hand are a little more sensitive.

[katusha]

266. Eating a cheese sandwich is not and should not be a badge of shame

yes, that is the way it should be. in this case i don't think it is.
since math is a science please let me try to woo you with it.

80 * $2.00 * 180 = $28800 money lost/year if cheese recipients had paid max. price
$28800 / $300,000 = 0.096 or 9.6% of kids who's parents don't pay

so roughly 1 out of 10 children whose parents don't pay receive a cheese sandwitch, the rest get the regular meal. the 9.6% group is made into a public example, singled out for special treatment as a message to the rest.

this is an intimidation tactic used for purposes of debt collection against the parents, using their children's self-esteem as hostage. there is simply no other way to look at it. if 90% of non-paying children receive the regular meal then 100% can too.

i am really surprised that so many progressives and liberals on this board can't see this bullshit tactic for what it is. no matter what arguments, right or wrong, anyone has come up with on this thread can ever get past the fact that it is wrong to use these children in an attempt to get at the parents for something that the child has absolutely no control over.

[Akoto]

195. Deadbeats. Gee, there's a fair term.

I'm 24, so it wasn't all that long ago that I was in high school. I had many friends who, despite being good people and coming from good homes, could not afford lunch. I shared what I had with them, but they were always grateful for what they could get through the school.

[Why Syzygy]

234. Right. Hungry children are now "deadbeats". nt

[flvegan]

221. What if the kid is a vegan?

:popcorn:

I'm such a troublemaker.

Honestly, to me, this seems like a reasonable alternative to the kid going hungry. It's food in the belly, and the kid can learn in his/her post-lunch classes without hunger pangs.

I also might like to add that if there's no lunch money, there may be nothing for breakfast either. This may be the first bit of nutrition the kid gets that day. Just something to think about.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

227. Why not just feed the kids the same lunch everybody else gets...

...with appropriate options for kids who have special dietary concerns or are vegan or vegetarian. Send the parents a bill every grading quarter. Low-income parents could receive vouchers to enclose with their bills to help pay or pay in full. Report cards could be withheld until bills are paid.

[donco6]

269. Here's what will happen:

Out of my $2.59 per lunch reimbursement I get from the feds, I now have to buy more labor to provide more options for kids. I can send a bills to parents for their missed payments, but they will be ignored. Low-income parents already have a mechanism for free lunch, but if they don't take advantage of it (after 15 phone calls from me asking them to fill out the form), there isn't any other "voucher." And we cannot, under ANY circumstances, withhold a report card or transcript. That's an urban myth.

[Butch350]

245. Hey...I have a cheese sandwich milk and fruit as an afternoon snack...

Does a cheese sandwich clash with the cell phone and ipod?

[fascisthunter]

249. conservatives want everyone else to live in penal colonies

[Abq_Sarah]

258. Okay...

First, my mom used to send us to school with cheese sandwiches and we didn't whine and go into hysterics over it. We actually thought it was normal. Goodness... had I only known I was being persecuted.

Second, "Moms" first obligation before anything else is to make sure her children are fed. If she doesn't want to pay the school district to do it, she needs to pack a lunch for them. I would wager "Mom" is spending money on non necessity items that shouldn't even be considered before her children's needs are met.

There is a lot of poverty in New Mexico. But... some of it is due to bad choices and ignorance. I volunteer at a shelter and a woman and her husband drove up one night last weekend asking if they could get some free diapers since they didn't have any money to purchase their own. Both were smoking cigarettes. How many diapers could they have bought if they'd put their child first?

[Honeycombe8]

284. Cheese sandwich, fruit, milk = very healthy lunch (and tasty, too!)

I wouldn't want to eat the same thing every day. But it's a good lunch. Very healthy, too. (I'd like to see a veggie in there, but if I understand it...they do this only for the interim while the parents get the child registered into the free lunch program...since the parents didn't timely do it in the first place.)

[Honeycombe8]

273. What's wrong with a cheese sandwich, fruit, and milk? It's probably healthier

than the so-called "hamburger" and fries the kids who paid got.

That sounds like a healthy lunch to me. Not unlike what I eat for lunch many days. I try to eat whole grain, if I eat bread at all (which is rarely), but schools don't frequently serve whole grain bread, anyway.

Fruit....extremely healthy (and expensive).

Milk....I'd prefer organic (without the hormones), but schools typically serve regular milk, which is what these kids get for free.

This sounds appropriate and healthy. It's a bit appalling to me that people who get something free that is healthy and well rounded actually complain because they want something else. I'd understand if they were giving the kids fried foods or a bowl of mush ("please, sir, I'd like some more"), but this is a good lunch. I'd like to see a veggie thrown in, tho. Maybe the parents should concentrate more on whether the kids are doing their homework and getting good grades, after eating their healthy lunch, so they can grow up and get good jobs.

[panzerfaust]

275. "Some districts, she noted, don't allow children without money to eat anything"

As a kid, I was poor - not that, as a kid, you really know what that means.

School lunch cost 10 cents. No 10 cents, no lunch.

One Monday of a dismal winter week, waiting in the school lunch line, I dropped my half-dollar. The school sports-hero (ever-so-much-larger than I) put his foot down over it. When I pleaded with him to lift his foot, he suddenly said "well go get it then!" and kicked it down the busy hall. So, no lunches at all that week.

As the referenced article notes, that is the way that it is in some of the school districts: No Money, No Lunch.

It is good that some of the schools do not take that approach, and do provide a totally free, if cold, lunch for kids who have no money.

It is bad that we, as a society, do not care enough for the kids to provide a hot lunch in all the schools. It is also bad that we, as a society, encourage, indeed aggrandize, the selfish aggression that is organized sports, encourage the bullying and costs that go with it, and pour money and resources into sport, which could be better used in our schools.

I expect that even a small reduction in the school's sporting budgets, could feed all of the impoverished kids.

[underpants]

276. Here is WHY we have this program-at least since WWII

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5155972&mesg_id=5155972

[TEmperorHasNoClothes]

283. kids shouldn't have to pay for their parents mistakes for basic needs, food, shelter, medicine etc.

Even if people in darfur have it worse....

[lildreamer316]

294. Mistake?

What if the parents have been laid off?
How is that the parent's fault?
I'm confused.

[Imagevision]

292. And today I hear they want kids to bring their own toilet paper? WTF!

[Toucano]

298. Deadbeats? Poor people are openly attacked in the press. What a cluster-fuck!

When I say tax the rich, I am accused of class warfare, yet the rich and powerful can attack without reprisal.

[Darth_Kitten]

318. Maybe there needs to be a crackdown on parents not paying support.....

Poor single parents shouldn't go this alone. :( Where's this 27 year old's ex and why isn't the man paying anything so his children can eat? :eyes:

[Nine]

324. This woman is a liar.

"Some parents don't have even $1 sometimes," the 27-year-old single mother said. "If they do, it's for something else, like milk at home. There are some families that just don't have it and that's the reason they're not paying."

No, they're not paying because it's easier to charge the lunches and then not pay for them. It's easier to do that than to fill out a form or to make their kids sack lunches to take. Some of you are asking why the schools can't just give the non-paying kids the same pizza (or whatever) lunches as the kids whose parents pay and the kids who are in the free lunch program. This is why - because of parents like this. This woman didn't suddenly go from being ineligible for free or reduced-price lunches to being unable to scrounge up food for her children, and those of you who believe that are simply gullible. I don't for a second believe that this family suffered such an abrupt reversal of fortune that they had no alternative but to accept the "humiliation" of the cheese lunches while waiting for their form to be processed. More likely, it was when the school finally resorted to giving the child the cheese sandwich lunches that the woman decided to get off her ass and fill out the damn form - but she still didn't bother to pack a lunch for the kid. Perhaps in theory the school could have absorbed the cost of this nonpaying family, but if the school does that as policy, soon they will have fewer and fewer paying parents and fewer and fewer eligible families who bother filling out the free lunch form. The free and reduced lunch program is a great program, but people like this make a mockery of it. And many of the parents who aren't paying may not even be eligible for the program. I don't think the term "deadbeats" is an unfair one in that case. When divorced parents don't pay for the support of their kids after a court has determined they are able to, that's exactly what we call them, and I don't see how this is any different.

Now, was the school indiscreet in the way it distributed the cheese lunches? I don't know - I wasn't there. If they caused this child or any other unnecessary embarrassment, that's something that should be addressed. But I don't think the lunches themselves constitute a punishment or intent to humiliate. How are the free and reduced-price lunches handled? Do the students receive vouchers they pay with in the lunch line? If you all think there's something shameful about being poor, I would think that would be a bigger humiliation than the cheese lunches, which reflects more on the parents' irresponsibility than financial situation. It may be that the school handled the cheese lunch situation as discreetly as it was logistically able to, which is all I think we can ask. It's not realistic to expect schools to protect kids from every embarrassment that might be caused by parents. If a parent sends a kid to school in inappropriate clothing, the parent may be asked to bring appropriate clothing to the kid at school, which I'm sure is embarrassing for the child. If a child has no parental permission slip for a field trip, the child will not be able to go. I wouldn't characterize situations such as these as punishing the child for the parents' actions. It's rather that the parents have punished the children themselves through their own actions.

[barb162]

326. Here's the mother's web page, including upcoming vacation news

which makes me wonder again why she doesn't seem to have money for food for her children.
http://www.darlenevigil.com/Home.htm

[Nine]

327. Good find.

Besides which, if you lack the means to feed your own children and do not take the very simple step of filling out a form in order to ensure they have something to eat, I call that neglect. Poverty has nothing to do with it. If the woman's story is true, someone needs to call CPS.

[barb162]

328. Thank you. I like the stretch limo rental and all the vacations she can afford

but she can't seem to find a few bucks for school lunches. What a scammer. Plus she doesn' seem too concerned whether her kid feels like "vomiting" over certain foods as she obviously spends on more important things...like trips.