Arizona AG: Marijuana Legalization Could curb Meixican Drug Cartel Warfare

[Stuart G]

Source: Raw Story



Arizona AG: Marijuana legalization could curb Mexican drug cartel warfare
David Edwards and Stephen C. Webster
Published: Friday February 27, 2009






When President Bush vowed to "smoke 'em out" in the chase for Osama bin Laden -- who his administration claimed to be America's greatest enemy -- he meant it in the Wild West sense, not the California sense.

Who'd have thought that by the time his predecessor took office, otherwise conservative officials would be considering another way of smoking out a new and growing threat to American's safety: Mexican drug cartels, whose profits are largely derived from the illegal smuggling and sale of marijuana.

On Friday, Democrat Terry Goddard, Arizona's Attorney General, said that while he's not in favor or legalizing marijuana, he thinks it should be debated as a way of curbing violence in the increasingly deadly clashes between Mexico's gangs.

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/

---

Fifteen years ago, I heard a chief of police..,(no I do not recall who) say the best way to lessen crime was to legalize most drugs.
"Fastest cheapest, and easiest way", he said.

Gang warfare, all kinds violence including murder, territory problems, huge profits, etc. What a waste of time, and money, especially when it concerns small amounts. Oh well...

[nomorenomore08]

1. File this under "no shit." And those who are all up in arms about national security, yet oppose drug

legalization, deserve to be smacked (no pun intended). I can't think of anything more self-defeating for this society as a whole than the so-called War on Drugs.

[musiclawyer]

2. We basically need next generation of prosecutors to take over

and say unequivocally that pot should be decriminalized and regulated and taxed so that scarce resources can be better utilized.

[customerserviceguy]

3. I've heard that a large part of the

drug cartel activity is in cocaine, which is not grown in the US, like marijuana is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of pot being just as legal as the stout I'm currently consuming, but marijuana legalization is not going to stop drug gangs.

[David_NSU]

8. I disagree

I think that legalization of marijuana would dramatically decrease violence on many levels...from the persons charged with growing the product, the persons who smuggle the product, all the way down to the dealer and even consumer. When something is labeled 'illegal' it motivates people to do whatever necessary to ensure they aren't caught.

[customerserviceguy]

24. I agree, it's a good idea

but doesn't a particular volume of cocaine go for much more than the same volume of marijuana? If a drug gang is going to smuggle one or the other, doesn't it make sense for them to smuggle the coke?

I can see that perhaps the legalization of marijuana would cause it to be a preferred drug over the other stuff that we'd still leave as illegal, but one could make that point about alcohol. If a person has an addiction to a substance, there will always be a way to obtain it regardless of legality.

I just don't see how the legalization of marijuana really does that much to tamp down the drug gang violence we've been seeing in the southern tier of states in the US. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, but it will not solve that problem, we will just see drug gangs switching products, but not tactics.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

40. There's a much bigger market for marijuana than there is for cocaine

According to NIDA estimates, 14.8 million Americans use marijuana regularly, while only 2.4 million use cocaine.

So, while it wouldn't completely eliminate drug-related gang crime, legalizing marijuana would probably eliminate the majority.

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/cocaine.html

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

[niceypoo]

46. The border violence is about smuggling and control of smuggling routes

Only a small percent is sold in AZ. This is a mafia war. The US is too backwards to ever do the right thing.

[truedelphi]

48. Why we are so backward is readily understandable --

The drug cartels have infinite supplies of money.

Most of us have been influenced by movies we watch - 100 million dollars is thrown into a briefcase and escorted to the kidnappers.

In real life, that 100 mil would never fit in a single briefcase. So drug cartels "clean up" one of their family members and then have that individual buy up a bank - often on our side of the border but within easy access. That bank ensures the cartel's ability to keep the money laundered. So don't ponder too deeply why we citizens cannot quite figure out what has been happening on Wall Street for the last twenty years. There are many reasons why the money situation in this country is not meant to be transparent - the illegal laundering being one of them.

Politicians on both sides of the border are bribed into keeping the drugs illegal. It is said that 90 % of the Mexican economy is about money sent home from immigrants here to family there, and also the huge amounts of money made through drug trading. No politician wants to really know where the money they are offered during campaign season comes from - but a few thousand here or there from some bank official certainly sounds respectable, doesn't it?

[dixiegrrrrl]

64. I agree with you 100%.

Esp. explains why the oversight of "offshore" banks ain't gonna happen.
Those banks are there for a purpose.

[JackRiddler]

54. So legalize coca leaf imports...

If people could chew it there would be less people snorting it.

As soon as coke is cheap the profit motive is out the window, most of the problems are gone.

Let the pharmacy system regulate drugs - not cops.

[dysfunctional press]

69. i don't think i agree with your way of thinking...

if coca leaf imports were legal, HUGH amounts would be imported, with much of it being processed into cocaine and crack.

raw leaf would be available, yes, and some people would be satisfied with it...but a lot more would be in the market for something stronger.

[Occulus]

75. "If people could chew it there would be less people snorting it"

Coca wiki page

Traditional medical uses of coca are foremost as a stimulant to overcome fatigue, hunger, and thirst. It is considered particularly effective against altitude sickness. It also is used as an anaesthetic to alleviate the pain of headache, rheumatism, wounds and sores, etc. Before stronger anaesthetics were available, it also was used for broken bones, childbirth, and during trephining operations on the skull.

...

The activity of chewing coca is called mambear, chacchar or acullicar, borrowed from Quechua, or in Bolivia, picchar, derived from the Aymara language. The Spanish masticar is also frequently used, along with the slang term "bolear," derived from the word "bola" or ball of coca pouched in the cheek while chewing. Typical coca consumption is about two ounces per day, and contemporary methods are believed to be unchanged from ancient times. Coca is kept in a woven pouch (chuspa or huallqui). A few leaves are chosen to form a quid (acullico) held between the mouth and gums. Doing so usually causes users to feel a tingling and numbing sensation in their mouths.

...

Although coca leaf chewing is common only among the indigenous populations, the consumption of coca tea (Mate de coca) is common among all sectors of society in the Andean countries, and is widely held to be beneficial to health, particularly in the high altitudes. Coca leaf is sold packaged into teabags in most grocery stores in the region, and establishments that cater to tourists generally feature coca tea.

[JackRiddler]

76. What is the powder coke use rate among coca leaf farmers?

I honestly do not know, and of course they're likely to be poorer than US consumers and won't have the lab equipment...

[Kurovski]

4. K&R for what the righties like to call "common sense." (nt)

[Skink]

5. This would make the war spill across our border.

Shop owners in America would be forced at gunpoint to sell the cartels product rather than the legalized product.

[ReliantJ]

10. The only solution

Give everyone free seeds to grow thier own!

[kestrel91316]

36. Exactly. Make it just as legal to grow 5 plants of your own as it is to

make X gallons of wine or beer in your home, so long as you do not ever sell it.

IOW, end Prohibition NOW!!! Have government sanctioned weed for sale in special pot stores, or extablished liquor stores, and regulate and tax it. And get back to growing industrial hemp.

Jeezus. You'd think this would be obvious to anyone with half a brain.

[shanti]

73. oh man

if we could do that, i'd grow the hell out of those 5 plants!!

the time is now!

[tabasco]

17. Hahahahahahaha!

Just like all the tequila cartels, right?

[NBachers]

39. Excellent, Tabasco, Your Excellency!

[Fumesucker]

59. Since this does not happen with alcohol, please explain why it would happen with pot.. n/t

[lonestarnot]

67. wwwoooooo. scare scare scare.......

:eyes:

[Luciferous]

70. It already has nt

[Stuart G]

6. I ask this question.."Would legalization of almost all hard drugs, increase or decrease crime?"

In the long run, if the government controlled these substance, and made them available to all, at very little cost, would society be better off or worse off?

[scytherius]

12. Drop crime by a ton

Every study in the world says so. I represented SO many people for "minor" drug crimes that weren't doing as many drugs as some people I knew IRL who were abusing prescriptions. The only difference . . . one was a crime and the other wasn't.

People who want drugs now will get them. Legalize it, they get them still and pay taxes. Furthermore, people won't all of a sudden start doing drugs. Prohibition of anything and then legalizing it does not result in any significant long term change in use. The argument that "people will suddenly get high" is absurd. The ones that wanna get high are getting high now. I know lots of people that smoke pot. I know lots of people that don't. And not a damn thing will change if they legalize it.

And then there is prostitution (should be legal too). . . but I digress.

[MikeE]

23. We already have a real live example

Prohibition of alchohol was where organized crime made most of its money. If you legalize, you take the profit from the criminals.

[scytherius]

7. No shit Sherlock.

And if you wanna stop the terrorist funding pipeline and make some revenue for the state, legalize and regulate drugs. How many lives would be saved if we stop this religious morality bullshit.

[bemildred]

9. Indeed.

Money is the root of all evil, as anyone that pays attention well knows.

[Stuart G]

13. True...but the police themselves know that we cannot win the war on drugs.

Also, their manpower could be used elsewhere. And what about the corruption in the police due to drug traffic?
No, I don't have the complete answer. And I am not sure this will ever change. But the discussion is very important, at least as far as I am concerned.

[El Supremo]

11. Marijuana is only part of it.

I don't know how much.

But I certainly wouldn't want to legalize cocaine.

[msongs]

16. when cocaine WAS legal, there was no major cocaine PROBLEM nt

[Stuart G]

18. Maybe not completely legalize cocaine, just remove severe penalties.

The cocaine addict would not need to steal to get a fix. Or the heroin addict. Let's make it somehow available so the violent crime concerning it was mostly eliminated.

[riverdeep]

28. I watched this episode of a show called 'Intervention',

some young woman was sniffing computer cleaner. It was quite bizarre. People will do anything.

You have to ask yourself the following question: will you cause more harm by making a substance illegal than the harm that would be caused to the people voluntarily doing it? Which causes greater harm to society?

[AlbertCat]

38. But I certainly wouldn't want to legalize cocaine.

It was legal until 1906.

And Cocaine is worse than, say Oxycotin or Vicodin how exactly?

Legalizing it doesn't mean it now comes inside a kiddie meal, y'know.

[Twinguard]

14. Just now figuring this out?

Oh well... Better late than never.

[kenichol]

15. If you aren't familiar with LEAP, you need to be!

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php) has retired law enforcement members on a Speakers Bureau. Our little non-profit has scheduled a speaker for our local county fair this August. Check out their video's on youtube...and subscribe-
Of COURSE we could reduce crime by repealing prohibition.

[Stuart G]

19. And let us not forget the legal industries that love drug traffic..

Some branches of the police, prisons, judicial jobs, etc. So many make money preaching and carrying out this vendetta.
Really sick shit. I recall all those pics of Elliot Ness and his crowd breaking down doors, chopping up stills, for what?
To make it possible for the Mob to grow into the a larger more profitable outfit then they could have ever imagined. And where did it start? Trying to stop booze. What a waste.

[riverdeep]

29. Or the CIA.

Their 'black ops' are heavily funded by the illegal trade. All off the books.

[defendandprotect]

35. Yes . . . pull the rug out from under them all -- and legalize drugs ---

There's a blanket of corruption headed up by corupt elected officials and corrupt

police enforcement which allows the drug trade to work ---

The banks are laundering drug money -- Citicorp/? laundering $500 BILLION a year

in drug money.

Again -- drug trade can't exist without cooperation of corrupt bank officials, politicians,

police -- customs, everything becomes corrupted!!!

The longer we wait the worse this gets!!!

DRUG WAR IS OVER . . . . . if you want it!!!

[defendandprotect]

34. Right -- a lot of authoritarian crap that grows up around prohibition---!!!

[Wizard777]

20. The whole damned country has finally gotten a clue. Lets do this thing.

[Stuart G]

22. NOt the whole country..Eric Holder wants to eliminate drug gangs once and for all...here.

is a link to another thread in this forum..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3756146&mesg_id=3756146

He will get rid of the drug gangs, just like Eliot Ness got rid of the MOB..

[Wizard777]

32. Elliot Ness never actually got rid of the mob. He was an unbribable publicity hound. That's it.

What hurt the mob far worse than Elliot Ness ever could have dreamed of hurting them. It was the end of alcohol prohibition. Some of them even went legit so to speak. They went out into the Nevada desert and founded a town called Las Vegas.

[GentryDixon]

21. After reading the new travel alert for Mexico it is time something is done.

[Metta]

25. Mazel freaking tov. This is a no brainer. The war on drugs is a scandalous waste.

along with minimum sentencing.

[Oldenuff]

26. Makes good sense to me.

It always scares me when a politician makes sense.

[MrSlayer]

27. And in other news, water is wet.

[McCamy Taylor]

30. Exactly.

[riverdeep]

31. This is actually quite big.

I remember when the Surgeon General Elders under Clinton got fired just for saying 'maybe we talk about the pros and cons of legalization of drugs'. That was it, just talking about it. Well, that and saying that masturbation is natural.

That this isn't being pilloried in public is a sign of something.

[Imagevision]

77. How many people do you know or read about who OD'd?????

[defendandprotect]

33. US legalization could curb crime in America - close prisons . . .

substantially reduce taxpayer costs ---

and rid us of some corrupt politicans and police, perhaps???

[L. Coyote]

37. A lot of people would have to move to the productive sector of the economy!!

They can then help with paying prison guard pensions until we all die.

[awoke_in_2003]

53. That is why it won't happen...

now that prison building has been outsourced to public companies, there is big money in it. Plus, they have a large body of slave labor to make more profit off of.

[napoleon_in_rags]

41. You've got to talk to the enforcement agents here too.

They have an option as far as what they want to want to deal with. The problem here is that Cartels have gotten to a point in Mexico where they can and have challenged core actors in the state, killed generals in the military and so on. If they take over the state or infiltrate it deeply enough, they get the powers associate with that as well. This means access to military and intelligence equipment that only nations can buy: Serious stuff from Russia and China that can Rival US equipment on many fronts, all funded by US tax payers dollar moved untaxed through black market sales. On the other hand, with decriminalization of cultivation (legalization not necessary, just let people grow an amount of their own) you can keep all that money in the hands of Americans, which will go funding Ben and Jerry's and comedy central or whatever. The main job of enforcement agents at that point would be prevent local hippies from cultivating over the limits, a comparatively peaceful job against a low tech opponent. I know which I would prefer as an enforcement agent.

[wordpix]

42. DUH - genius! (sarcasm)

[ixion]

43. gee... did he just figure this out?

:dunce:

We knew this was the answer in the beginning. Prohibition DOES NOT WORK!

[Left Coast2020]

45. You don't suppose that if most illegal drugs were legal,

smugglers would be forced to smuggle things like.....viag.. oh never mind.

Whats an unemployed smuggler to do? :dilemma: :dilemma: :dilemma:

[citizen snips]

44. Mexico needs a group like Los Pepes in order to win

[martymar64]

78. Hell no, Los Pepes were murderous RW thugs

They later morphed in the UAC, one of the more notorious RW militias that murdered peasants and laborers in Colombia. They would make a bad situation much much worse.

[Suji to Seoul]

47. Yet, Terry, you do nothing to lobby change in Phoenix or work to change the focus of police

You allow fascists like Arpaio to bust college kids with a joint.

You're a Democrat and I voted for you, but lip service is shit service.

[quidam56]

49. CNBC has been running a show " Marijuana Inc."

It's amazing if you can catch it it's worth the watch...

[Peace Patriot]

50. Lo-o-o-o-o-ong past due! nt

[andodempa]

51. Cultivation

What I want to know is why are there harsher punishments for cultivating your own cannabis? It's like they want the money to go to the drug cartels. Really makes you go hmmm.

[Yavapai]

63. Actually it is the Alcohol cartels that oppose pot.

Check out where the Kennedy's got their money...

[lib2DaBone]

52. diing..ding..ding... give that man a cigar.......

[mdmc]

55. regulation safer then gang rule?

:patriot:

[damntexdem]

56. Well, duh!

The only reasons to advise any adult not to use marijuana are: (1) because of the legal risks; and (2) because it supports the thugs who transfer and sell the illegal product. Legalization would deal with both reasons.

Of course, I say 'use,' not 'smoke,' because that involves yet another reason to abstain.

[KamaAina]

57. Their brand spanking new repuke governor is gonna have a cow.

Not to mention Sheriff Joke!

[47of74]

58. Let them

I don't give a rats F-ing ASS what either one of them think!

[Uncle Joe]

60. Kicked and recommended for some sane drug law reform, and a return to respecting

the Bill of Rights. Drug use or drug addiction should be an educational, medical and or personal privacy issue, not a criminal one only serving to rape the Constitution, enrich the for profit prison system and organized crime, while also corrupting the American People's Government.

The "War Against Drugs" is nothing but an Orwellian, short sighted, insane policy intended to criminalize the American People as a means to dis-empower them from participation in our democratic republic and the results are totally opposite of the intentions unless those intentions are to weaken the nation as a whole for the sole purpose of benefiting the corrupted, wealthy and powerful.

Thanks for the thread, Stuart.:thumbsup:

[Odin2005]

61. Anyone with half a brain and is not a victim of anti-pot propaganda knows that!

Best way of getting rid of gangs is to destroy the conditions leading to the formation of black markets those games make their income off of.

[ooglymoogly]

62. Duuuh...Ya think?

are the brain dead being brought back from comatose to sentient beings, from chaos to a semblance of order? Are we now allowed to say black is black and white is white for cripe sake?

[rolltideroll]

65. Has anyone notice the strong uptick in stories about legalizing pot?

I may be guilty of conformation bias, but it really seems we have been hearing a lot about legalizing drugs. I am just Tin Foil Hatting here, but is it possible that President Obama sees this as an effective way to curtail the Cartels money and influence, so he is laying the ground work to legalize and tax it? Like I said,just letting my conspiracy side get some exercise.

[lonestarnot]

68. I think you may be right.

[Nevernose]

74. Premise? Yes. Conclusion? Remains to be seen.

I've noticed it, too. Maybe it because I've watched the first 4 seasons of Weeds with all of my free time the last couple of weeks, but lately I've been googling NORML and looking at a lot of articles on the subject.

Maybe it's confirmation bias, or maybe it's just Jung's collective unconscious or what we call today "meme."

[Zhade]

80. If he did, he'd be the gutsiest leader I'll have seen in my lifetime.

Oh, let it be so!

[RadiationTherapy]

66. Make it so, Number One.

Yes, Captain.

[Imagevision]

71. Could curb Meixican Drug Cartel? - mexicans would then offer 2 for 1 lid prices because

it'd be legit in the states, Mass. today stated they were considering legalizing weed but putting a $50.00 per ounce tax on it each ounce sold. {for real!)

[shanti]

72. k&r LEGALIZE IT

DON'T CRITICIZE IT!

[Zhade]

79. It's stunning -- so much POSITIVE news about drug issues lately!

NT!

[flyboyscott68]

81. starting a medical club in IL

I am going to be opening a club in IL tomarro.

[sarcasmo]

82. Imagine the tax money alone the Government would reap. Legalize already.

[cooolandrew]

83. Finally, there you go legal drugs end lots of crime and make them safer and streets safer.