CIA Vets Blast Senate Probe of Operations Under Bush

[kpete]

Source: TIME Magazine

CIA Vets Blast Senate Probe of Operations Under Bush
By Bobby Ghosh / Washington Friday, Mar. 06, 2009

For a handful of CIA operatives who were on the frontlines of the war on terror in the early months and years after 9/11, it's the stuff of nightmares. After all, they did their job as their political masters defined it, using tools and techniques approved by their lawyers. Then came an election, and a new set of political masters, who have begun second-guessing everything they did before. Suddenly there is lots of talk about "violations" and "wrong-doing," the promise of formal investigations and hearings, and the very real possibility that their life savings could go to defense lawyers.

Unfortunately for them, that nightmare looks like it may soon become frighteningly real. Against the wishes of the agency's popular new leader, the CIA is in the crosshairs of two powerful Democratic Senators who are determined to get to the bottom of the Agency's more controversial operations. And not even the White House has been able to get them to back off. (Read "Intelligence Lapses: The Risks of Relying on 'Chatter'".)

Dianne Feinstein confirmed Thursday that her Senate Intelligence Committee will investigate the CIA's interrogation and detention programs under the Bush Administration, a probe that she expects to take a year. The Californian seems to be reading from the same playbook as Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Patrick Leahy, who this week reiterated his call for a 'truth commission' into the Bush Administration's national security policies, including wiretapping, treatment of detainees and even the politicization of the Justice Department.

President Obama has shown little appetite for raking over those particular coals, saying he'd rather "move forward." Veteran Democrats on the Hill say it's all very well for the President to want to start with a clean slate, but they've spent years asking questions about alleged wrongdoing under Bush — and they want answers. (Feinstein was unavailable for comment, but she's expected to release a statement about the investigation this week.) (Read "Panetta: From Washington Insider to CIA Outsider".)

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1883383,00.html

[JDPriestly]

1. Surely anyone with the intelligence to serve in the CIA has heard

of the Nuremburg trials. They were surely told when they began their service that "following orders" is no excuse for committing atrocities. This is history 101, WWII 101. Every soldier, every CIA agent, every American politician or government employee should know this.

[lsewpershad]

11. BUT

we should not stop at or with those who carried the orders but prosecute those who instituted and gave those orders.

[No Elephants]

29. Yes. The two are not mutually exclusive. And, we need a special prosecutor.

[No Elephants]

28. And, if they haven't heard of Nuremberg, perhaps they've heard of Lt. Calley.

[damntexdem]

2. Yes, and SS officers weren't too happy with the Nurenberg trials, either.

So what?

[bemildred]

17. Indeed, and they are all supposed to know about Nurenburg, too. nt

[Solly Mack]

3. Riight....because before the election torture was just oh so legal

There was no Geneva Convention before the election of Obama....everything changed after Obama was elected. It was all a matter of changing "political masters" and the poor CIA is ever the obedient slave to "political masters" - couldn't have possibly been the breaking of laws. Couldn't possibly be about war crimes. Goodness no. Poor things...they'll have to spend money to defend themselves...have to get a lawyer...and they'll have rights that come with being accused of a crime! Which is more than the people they tortured had.

[mike_c]

4. my heart bleeds for the poor torturers and murderers...

...who were just following orders.

Well, no. Actually it doesn't. I'd like to see Spandau reopened for them-- let them spend their last years listing to Hess's ghost rattle around the walls.

[wackywaggin]

7. Let them suffer,

just like the poor souls who they tortured to death. "I was just following orders," is not an excuse for INHUMANITY!!

[fascisthunter]

5. I Bet They Aren't too Happy

Gee... I wonder why?

[EFerrari]

6. Bullshit on china. First, Leahy and Feinstein's proposals

fall so far short of honoring the rule of law in this country, you can't even see justice from where they are.

Second, why is Carl Ford the only source named? Where are you, oh defenders of American freedom? How wide are your momma's skirts?

:puke:

[JDPriestly]

13. I agree that we need actual criminal trials and not Truth and

Reconciliation Commissions. Ask the young man down the street who did time in the juvenile system for grafitti or car theft or marijuana possession or just hanging with his buddies on the street corner whether his case was heard before a Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Horrors. What's good for the 'hood is good for the hoods in D.C. (and for Wall Street).

[EFerrari]

18. Enough spin to give you vertigo. We need the Justice Department to do its job

not these tainted collaborators to sell their innocence to us.

We need indictments, not these precious pleas.

TORTURE is ILLEGAL in America. For that alone, these felons need to be indicted.

The bottom line is, who are we? Do we take our Constitution seriously or are we full of shit?

[balantz]

8. So some operatives take the fall, and the masters will escape justice to torture again later? n/t

[No Elephants]

30. You can prosecute the operatives AND those who gave the orders. The two are

not mutually exclusive. In fact, in my view, prosecuting both is the only effective deterrent to future crimes of this kind at both levels, operative and order giver.

[Joey Liberal]

9. They'll have to deal with it

Bush's lack of respect for the Constitution must be exposed.

[No Elephants]

31. So far, I see little indication of a zeal to deal with it.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

10. It made it to Time Magazine!

[BuyingThyme]

12. These fucks are openly traitors to our country.

Why do we allow them to exist outside of cages?

[BlueJac]

14. Tough shit

[Stinger2]

15. A Unprecedented Amount of CIA/FBI Military Quit because of BushCo Policy.

A Unprecedented Amount of CIA/FBI Military Quit because of BushCo Policy.

Second top official to quit CIA
2004

On Thursday Mr Tenet cited "personal reasons" for his decision to go, but he has faced months of criticism for not preventing the 11 September 2001 attacks, and over the failure to uncover weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3775423.stm


Top CIA Legal Official Quit In Protest Of Bush Administration’s Torture Policies

The New York Times reports today that CIA Director Michael Hayden, who has been unhappy with Helgerson’s aggressive oversight, has ordered an internal investigation into Helgerson. The move is “unusual, if not unprecedented, and would threaten to undermine the independence of the office.”


http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/12/hayden-cia/

I could go on about how many CIA/FBI Military people quit, but that’s not the point. Bush and Cheney have buried, burned and deleted a enormous amount of secret records. I believe any person in the CIA/FBI Military or former CIA/FBI Military be given total immunity from 1999-2009 and then you will be able to get to the bottom of this mess. Just like A. Greenspan, they are involved but just doing what they are told rather then resign.

Most likely nothing will happen, seriously bringing America standing down, loosing face in the worlds view and well earned if nothing is done.

[No Elephants]

32. You don't give everyone immunity in order to get the goods on a handful. You have to

punish the lower echelons as well, or the Nuremberg Defense lives. You give immunity very selectively, only insofar as necessary to get the goods on the highest levels. And you prosecute everyone else on every level.

[Alcibiades]

16. active "early months and years after 9/11"

Bet most of them were also active before 9/11, which means we shouldn't fucking listen to them about anything because they let wackos with box cutters turn airplanes into bombs.

[librechik]

21. I would say too bad and forge ahead-- then I remember JFK and RFK

who made enemies in the wrong places.

Especially enemies who think it's ok to murder for "national security" reasons. And those who fervently supported Bush's needs as imperial president could just as avidly be against populist Obama and the growing movement to put their guilty torturing asses on the barbecue.

[defendandprotect]

23. Am I mistaken or have they taken "terraism" to a higher level than WWII . . .

a world war taking only 5+ years !!!

These CIA guys are obviously the "yes" men who they got to do their dirty work --

while better, more ethical people left!

[librechik]

25. yep==and hardly anybody even noticed

[No Elephants]

33. No, you NEVER give up pursuing truth and justice relentlessly out of fear of any kind. NEVER. If

you do, you have simply handed over your country and your life to the bad guys our of fear that they might win some battle some day. You are advocating the equivalent of throwing away your money daily to make sure no one ever steals it.

[librechik]

38. I absolutely agree--but if I were Obama, I would be watching my back

or treading very very carefully by making my CIA appointments harmless bureaucrats known to be friendly and malleable, not contentious.

Panetta's perfect.

[democrank]

19. Boo frigging hoo

I wonder what these barbarians would say if the same torture techniques were used on some of their CIA colleagues or American soldiers?

[jwirr]

20. So then testify like John Dean did about Watergate and let the chips

fall where they may. If the *ss crime family has had as much influence over the CIA as people believe then they will be doing the United States a big favor and cleaning out the rats.

[No Elephants]

35. I don't think Dean got immunity before testifying, or am I mistaken?

[jwirr]

40. I am relying on some pretty old memories. I thought he did. But I do

know we need another man like him right now.

[LynnTheDem]

22. "Just obeying orders" should work for a defense. After all, we never used to officially torture

people, either.

[No Elephants]

34. In a perfect world, it would work bc you would never get an immoral order. In the real

world, the Nuremberg Defense is the last refuge of the slimy.

[truthisfreedom]

24. I have no doubt that Obama supports these investigations 100%

Behind the scenes. It's a great ploy for him to resist them in public. Puts the pressure on republicans.

[No Elephants]

36. Ah, yes. Nothing is ever exactly as it seems. Obama always has a plan within a plan within

a plan within a plan within a

[Peace Patriot]

26. The problem here is that the principles of the Bush Junta have apparently been given

immunity--in some deal that is the origin of Pelosi's weird announcement that, "Impeachment is off the table." Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and a few others were given immunity from prosecution--perhaps to prevent the nuking of Iran and martial law here, and to get Bush and Cheney to leave peacefully when the time came (and to get rid of Rumsfeld, the evilest of the lot, in my opinion). And, if true--and that's sure what it looks like to me--then we have a situation in which Hitler and his closest deputies walk--into a glowing sunset of million dollar speaking engagements and billions of dollars stolen from us stuffed away somewhere in foreign currency--and only the lesser players in the nazi regime--just those who took orders, not those who gave them--can be prosecuted.

I think that's the situation. I also think Time magazine is a major CIA/war profiteer tool. And they are just outright lying in their article, "Panetta: From Washington Insider to CIA Outsider." I don't believe that Panetta is a civilian. I think he is very high up in the organization, and knows about "The Deal," and was probably a party to it. So, neither he nor Obama nor anyone in power can or will prosecute anyone for the Bush Junta's mind-boggling list of crimes, because it truly cannot be fair.

[EFerrari]

27. Unfortunately, I think you're exactly right.

It makes me wonder if any of these people truly understand what kind of world they are leaving their children and grandchildren. No one is privileged enough to avoid the consequences, not really.

[No Elephants]

37. Leave us alone. We were only following orders. Excuse me while I double over

and vomit repeatedly in revulsion.

If Obama falls for this, I'm voting for Nader in four years, even if I think he gave us 8 years of Dummya.

[lebkuchen]

39. The CIA needs to go the way of the Stasi

Get rid of it. Their "intelligence" is worse than useless.