L.A. Officers Kill Suspect as Viewers Watch on TV

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-chase24feb24,1,3847008.story?coll=la-home-local

Los Angeles police shot and killed a robbery suspect on live TV at the end of a 90-minute car chase early Monday, firing into a rear windshield as the driver slowly backed his car toward officers in front of Santa Monica High School.

Nicholas Hans Killinger, 23, of Malibu died an hour after three Los Angeles police officers, "fearing for their lives," fired into the back window of his Ford Tempo, said Lt. Art Miller.

"The suspect could have ended this situation at any time," said Miller. "But instead he chose to reverse his car into the officers." The officers, not yet identified, are from the Hollywood and Rampart divisions.

Killinger's family, including some who saw the 5:54 a.m. shooting on TV as it happened, questioned the deadly police response. Five local TV stations aired the chase and shooting.

<snip>

KTLA Channel 5 news director Jeff Wald said the station now has a policy of switching to a wide angle shot if the helicopter pilots anticipate a pursuit is about to end. The station broadcast Monday's shooting because "I'm sure they didn't know … what was going on at the time."

[kalian]

1. I'm sure he was a "terrorist" and the goose-steppers....

had every "right" to shoot the guy... :eyes:

[MrSlayer]

2. Good. Stop when the cops tell you to stop.

And don't drive at them. It's pretty simple folks. Bubblegum lights on? Pull over. If he was innocent of this robbery he would have just pulled over, you don't run from the cops if you are innocent.

[atre]

15. I agree...

I'm fairly liberal when it comes to Criminal Procedure issues, but this one is a no-brainer for me....

[Clovis Sangrail]

21. head in the sand?

If he was innocent of this robbery he would have just pulled over, you don't run from the cops if you are innocent.

you've obviously never had your ass kicked by the cops as your laying on the ground in handcuffs.

The police are NOT charged with meting out 'justice'. I don't give a shit if they actually SEE somebody commit a crime, that person is only a SUSPECT as far as the police are concerned.
The courts determine guilt or innocence and determine punishment.
NOT some tiny dicked yayhoo with a gun and a badge.

Police are allowed to carry guns and use deadly force at their discretion. It is well within their power to ruin or end another persons life. As this is the case, and as power IS ALWAYS abused, they should be held to account for even the slightest unneccessary use of force.

[pintobean]

58. Putting the car in reverse

and accelerating toward the police was no different than cocking and aiming a gun. They fired in self defense.

[Occulus]

43. I got threatened with arrest for asking for a badge number.

That was after seven officers entered my home (this is all on a noise complaint; there were seven others present before the police arrived), one slammed me into the wall for trying to get his attention, and drawers and the closet in my bedroom were opened and given a quick look-see.

I, myself, do not completely trust any police officer. I know Detroit has had people in the past impersonate police and the city actually advised people not to pull over for unmarked police cars. Accoring to my man, this happened in '97 or '98, when he was living in that area of the state.

No, I never totally trust a man with a nadge and a gun.

[BiggJawn]

47. Yeah.....That's it...Cops NEVER arrest anyone who isn't guilty

Shit, why have the expense of courts, and prosecuting attorneys, and clerks, and judges, etc...just leave it up to the cop's "discretion" whether a "Perp" is guilty or not. ask ANY cop, they'll tell you they only make GOOD collars, it's those damn defense lawyers and liberal judges that let the scum back on the street.

I still think they could have come to a non-leathal conclusion to this. "backing up slowly"...Guess it's hard to step out of the way when the Blood Lust be upon ye.....

[Skittles]

49. Um, innocent people who are scared to death of the cops DO RUN

you cannot understand that ???

[Art_from_Ark]

3. So the guy was "slowly backing up his car"

and the officers "feared for their lives"

:wtf:

[yellowcanine]

27. If someone is backing a car toward you

You are not going to fear for your life? Suppose he floors it? Are you afraid then?...whoops. Too late. You are dead.

I don't like it when people get shot but if an officer is pointing a gun at me I am going to stop the car, turn off the engine, and put my hands up where he can see them - not drive toward him.

[treepig]

i see your point . . . the costco parking lot is one scary place

on a busy saturday afternoon - i've had multiple persons slowly backing cars at me simultaneously - i was afraid for my life then, and now the flashbacks have me shaking in fear again. ehee

[I AM SPARTACUS]

4. wasn't there an LBN story about viewers supporting live execution...?

...in the last few days...???

[PartyPooper]

11. Yes, and this was the first installment.

:eyes:

[WilliamPitt]

5. Weirdly enough, I watched this happen

I'm in LA, and it was on all of the TV stations. I'm no expert on police tactis or the proper use of force, but this guy:

a) Was speeding like hell through residential streets;

b) Kept trying to ram other cars off the road so he could carjack their vehicle;

c) Probably would have killed someone one way or the other if he had continued on.

Seemed like a righteous shoot to me. I also agree with the poster above: Stop when cops say "Stop."

[Cooley Hurd]

9. Was the guy drunk? High? Mentally ill?

Will, was there any word from the family about mental illness? It seems strange that someone would go as far as this gentleman did if he wasn't messed up in some way...

[ronnykmarshall]

35. He had robbed a gas station in Aguora Hills

and led the chase all the way thru Hollywood and into Santa Monica.

I don't know if there was any evidence if he was high or mentally ill.

[sally343434]

12. Horrible

> b) Kept trying to ram other cars off the road so he could
> carjack their vehicle

Huh? This sounds like you're parroting the blatherings of the breathless "color commentator" of this travesty. Why would anyone already driving a car want or need to "carjack" another vehicle? And what good is a vehicle that has been "rammed" "off the road?"

Did you have your pants around your ankles while you were watching this?

These are nothing but more trigger-happy cops. I wonder if the victim was black.

They could have disabled the car or boxed it in with police cruisers, especially if it were "backing up slowly." But I guess that wouldn't be as satisfying as blowing a 22-year-old's brains out.

[5thGenDemocrat]

14. I wonder if the victim was black

With a name like "Nicholas Hans Killinger" and a Malibu address, I tend to doubt it.
John
I've never been to California, so I'm guessing here -- but something tells me "no."

[maggrwaggr]

16. uh ... maybe you should have watched it before passing judgement

those of us in LA who saw it thought "good riddance".

it's a miracle the guy didn't kill anybody before he was shot.

I have no problem with it. The fact that it was live on TV is the only part of it that bothers me.

[libview]

31. he was white, happy now?

[ronnykmarshall]

34. That is just plain RUDE.

Pants around your ankles?

Why don't you look at some of the FACTS about his case before you go off and attack.

First off, let me say that I DON'T agree with the policy of shooting the driver. HOWEVER, if you ever seen one of these assholes speeding down the streets and not giving a rats ass about anyone else, you'd think twice about feeling so sorry for them.

Second, this jerk was speeding in residential areas, on the wrong side of the road, running stop lights, trying to car jack other cars.

Third, how can you disable a car on surface streets? Blow out his tires? Oh yeah, great idea. Let him lose control and smash into someones house. Yeah, good idea!

Again, let me say the policy of shooting the guy when he was backing up slowly isn't right in my opinion. I was pretty shocked to see this. Someone made the point of what if he floored it and slammed into the cops?

Finally, the guy was WHITE.

[Q]

19. Righteous shoot?

- Interesting choice of words. You know...the Nazis used to be able to shoot anyone they wanted if they didn't stop when ordered.

- That he 'could have' killed someone is not the point. He didn't kill anyone. So...what we have here is a public execution for the crime of wreckless driving and refusing to stop on command.

- Welcome to the police state.

[JasonBerry]

25. POLICE State??? That's ridiculous.

Since you're going to turn it into a political question --

"the Nazis used to be able to shoot anyone they wanted if they didn't stop when ordered."

Yeah, you're right. So did the Soviet Union, so DOES North Korea, so DOES China, So DOES about every African country -- all of these countries ruled by despots. So, what's your point?

This "police state" crap is so disgusting. Obviously, Q, you have done little study of what a true "police state" is. To think you live in a police state is a slap in the face at those who truly do.

This is a matter of personal consequences - a subject that I know is taboo to some of you. It's so much easier to blame the "police state."

[mac56]

36. If I recall, there's a rule of Internet argument that says -

the first one to invoke Hitler or mention the Nazis automatically loses the argument.

[WilliamPitt]

52. Godwin's Law

[ronnykmarshall]

37. So we wait until he does kill someone?

We have several police chases here in LA and one thing I'll say this that the news DOES almost glorify these. (thanks a lot OJ)

So, the police just wait until the son of a bitch KILLS someone? OK, swell!

Two years ago, some jackass was stole a car and went on a wild chase around LA. He ended up slamming into a car and killing an 80 year old Holocaust survivor.

Sorry I have no pity for these bastards that think they can out run the police and put ALL of us on the streets in danger. :nopity:

[nini]

26. I agree.. if you saw what happened up to that point you would..

understand why his car was considered a deadly weapon and the police felt they were at risk. YOu shoot to kill if you're at risk.

This guys was a threat to everyone around him. He should have pulled the hell over and surrendered.

[Fovea]

32. An aquaintance of mine was killed last summer

on her bicycle by a guy who had already run one person down before the police chase began. This via a police chase that already had crossed a quarter of KC at high speed through several residential neighborhoods.

A car is a lethal weapon, and if you cock it, the cops (or anyone else) should be free to blow you away with impunity IMO.

Further, police departments should conduct those sorts of chases with helicopters, not close pursuit. This helps keep the body count to malefactors.

Mind you, as someone who was in Chicago in '68, I generally think the worst of police, but if someone points a loaded car at you, shoot them.

[bluestateguy]

6. Had he not backed his car into the cops this would not have happened

If somebody lunges at me with a deadly weapon I will use deadly force to repel them and ask questions later.

[Gringo]

7. How horrible. I hate Los Angeles.

Not that I'm necessarily blaming the cops. Don't know enough to say - but I HATE the ghoulish local news that makes this kind of trash into live entertainment. Snuff live on TV - who'da thunk it? The ghouls are bad all over but LA takes the cake in this department. Yuk.

[ronnykmarshall]

38. I hear ya Gringo!

Local LA news foams at the mouth over these.

[Rex]

8. Why didn't they just blow out the tires or KO the engine

with a shotgun? :shrug:

[yellowcanine]

28. Easy for you to say

1-blowing out the tires will not stop a car.
2-it is not as easy to KO the engine as you think. Particularly if you are behind the car and the engine is in front. Kind of like the old chestnut of "why didn't the officer just shoot the gun out of his hand?"

We weren't there (even the TV viewers weren't there). Police shootings get investigated. Let's let them investigate and reserve judgement.

[Rex]

48. Simmer down

It's a valid question. I guess slugs aren't standard gear but they really do stop cars (and elephants).

[ronnykmarshall]

39. Doesn't stop them.

I've seen several chases when they will still drive the cars until the rims fall off.

[Gringo]

10. I'm astonished that everyone focuses on the cop/crook angle

on who's at fault. I'm more distressed that the local news stations use this trash as entertainment, and now live snuff. It really is sick, pornographic, and does NOTHING to enlighten anyone on law enforcement issues. The same goes for "COPS" etc. I hate it, it just reinforces that we are living in a world that resembles "Robocop" more every day.

[Columbia]

13. Some links and video

Being discussed here in J/PS:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x41359

Video can be seen here:

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/022304_nw_pursuit.html

[Barkley]

17. He was definitely white...

The car chase lasted 90 mins. and went from Agora Hills to Hollywood to Santa Monica... driving on the wrong side of the street ... racing through the pedestrian portion of Santa Monica's Third Street Promenade.

There's no way the police would let a Black or Latino go crazy like that!

If the driver had been Black or Latino he'd been shot dead after he ran his first traffic signal.

If the driver was Black or Latino there would be "unconfirmed reports" in the media about the driver being on PCP, crack or some other substance.

And Police Chief Bratton wouldn't be talking about investing the shooting "with a fine-tooth comb" to determine whether it conformed to department guidelines but about the victim's alleged ties to gangs.

And this is L.A.P.D. three police chiefs removed from Darly Gates' reign.

John Edwards' "Two Americas" is real in California.

[Missy Vixen]

18. Didn't this happen a few years back as well?

>KTLA Channel 5 news director Jeff Wald said the station now has a policy of switching to a wide angle shot if the helicopter pilots anticipate a pursuit is about to end. The station broadcast Monday's shooting because "I'm sure they didn't know … what was going on at the time."<

Those in sunny Southern California may remember this; it happened a few years ago just after 3:00 PM on a weekday. I saw it because at that time, we had east and west coast feed on our satellite dish.

An obviously distraught and suicidal man set his pickup on fire (with his dog inside) after unfurling a large banner with an unfriendly message about HMO's. I believe that he had been shooting out of the pickup prior to this; the freeway was evacuated. He then took out a rifle and pointed it at his head. It was fairly obvious what was going to happen; to this day, I still can't believe that the station in question (I think it was KNBC; it may have been KTLA,) allowed their helicopter pilot to basically get in as close as he could just in time for a loooooovely closeup of the guy blowing his brains out.

Interestingly enough, there were the same sort of statements from the TV folk at that time -- "we didn't mean to film this," "we didn't mean to broadcast this live," bla bla bla. They're only upset when they get caught broadcasting this kind of stuff.

I don't support any criminal playing target practice with the cops. I'm sure that the police were protecting themselves. At the same time, it's less obscene to watch someone's brains being splattered all over the pavement than five seconds of Janet Jackson's breast?

Julie

[ronnykmarshall]

50. It hasn't changed much.

There was a chase that went on for hours several months ago and the driver ended up killing himself.

He was inside his car, so you didn't really see anyting graphic. But still you see the guy driving, stops the car and then you can see a flash and the cops running towards the vehicle.

[symbolman]

20. That was an execution

for not DOING WHAT THE COPS SAY..

They have guns that can shoot through a car engine block and easily blow tires, all four of them (if they can count that high) and STOP the guy in his tracks..

an Execution for NOT obeying the law..

but BUSH doesn't obey the law all day long, look how many he's killed with is out of control attitude..

get some perspective..

[NickB79]

40. As was already mentioned

1) you can drive on rims at a decent speed, so it wouldn't stop the car immediately

2) the police cars were behind the vehicle, chasing it. How do you shoot the engine block when you're behind the car? Happen to have an elephant gun or .50 BMG handy that can penetrate 15 ft of autobody frame and metal? A shotgun won't cut it in that instance.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

56. Maybe they were shooting at the engine

and the guy happened to be in the way.

I seriously doubt that the cops like high speed chases, because it is very dangerous for them and for innocents. If there were a good method for the cops to stop a car then I'm sure they would employ it. Recklessly shooting at the car (tires and engine) doesn't sound very safe to me.

[Dover]

22. Can't help but wonder how this might have turned out if the cops had to

rely more on their wits and less on guns. I'm thinking of England, when there was a time when all they carried was a billyclub. Yes, I know....it's not LA and they didn't know if the suspect was, himself, armed. But you have to admit that guns become so easy as an option...that other less violent ways of dealing with situations are eventually forgotten.

[teknomanzer]

23. As a minority I can say...

I am wary of the police, but I can see how this guy ended up getting shot. A robbery suspect, a 90 minute car chase, endangering the lives of civilians. The cops have to be thinking that this guy doesn't care who he kills. Police officers don't really relish the idea of dying on the job or getting run over by some jackass who nearly killed innocent people. They probably did what any REAL human being would do to bring this thing to a conclusion. Its real easy to sit back and watch the idiot box and say the cops should have done this, that or the other, but when you are down in the shit and you think someone is dangerous (which this guy obviously was... a total disregard for the lives of others) you'll do what first comes into your head that will save your ass. That car backing up may have look slow to you comfortable seated on the couch watch TV, but to those cops it most definitly looked like this guy was going to kill them trying to get away.

As I said before I don't trust cops and when I see the blue and red my ass will be pulling over, taking my ticket with no lip and moving on. Let the lawyers work out the rest.

[masshole]

24. I watched it live on Faux News

The cops had him pulled over. His car was backing up towards them, very slowly however. They looked to be only 15-20 feet apart. Three cruisers had the suspect boxed in. I thought I saw shots being fired by the cops, but the Faux News morning bozos didn't mention anything.
They stopped the coverage right after that.

They did mention repeatedly that the suspect was believed to be armed, but I still can't reconcile the shooting as it appeared to happen. It looked more like the suspect left the car in gear and it was rolling towards the cops. Maybe he was waving a gun that the camera didn't see. Maybe the cop (looked like just one was shooting) was so full of adrenaline and anger he just reacted.

[Mike Daniels]

30. Doesn't take more than a fraction of a second to hit the gas pedal

In terms of leaving the car in gear, what keeps the perp from suddenly hitting the pedal and slamming the car into a foot patrol or police car?

The perp was effectively in control of a deadly weapon and needed to be approached as such.

I'm not taking a position on whether the cops used excessive force or not until more information comes out but this situation isn't that far removed from someone who went on a shooting rampage, gets cornered and then continues to aim a gun at someone after being ordered to drop the weapon.

[masshole]

41. maybe so.. I'm unsure

but the way it looked... car moving slowly, (He actually does hit one of the cruisers) when opens his door... the cops start shooting.

He didn't deserve to die because he led them on a long chase and COULD have caused more harm than he did.

[Muddleoftheroad]

46. Presumed he was armed

He attacked them with one deadly weapon and opened the door, presumably to do the same with a gun? Frankly, I will shed nary a tear for this idiot. I pity the poor police who will go through hell because of him.

[abracadabra]

57. death penalty for the swine!!

anyone who disobeys must be shot and killed--after all it's for the greater good--and Invading Iraq was cool too--
buch of disobedient swines there too!!
I live in fear.
I hate people I don't understand.
That's why I am ok with killing anyone questionable.
Don't need proof--the hell with courts--too much red tape--
I live in fear of anyone different than myself especially those non christian swines.
I want everyone to obey mine fuhrer.

[IndianaGreen]

54. I watched it too! This guy was driving on the wrong side of the road...

and he would wave an object in his hand as he drove.

He was a public danger, plus he was being chased after a robbery.

I thought the cops were very restrained!

[tom_paine]

29. Not sure you can fault the cops for much here from the intial account

This guy ran for more than an hour. Instead of stopping, he reversed his car towards the cops. I don't care how slow he did it, if they were shouting warnings to him, and particularly after being chased for an hour on the road, something bad was going to happen to him/

11 bullets in the back window might seem a bit excessive, but perhaps not given the hourlong chase and final actions of the suspect.

I can't get all upset over thise one.

This is no Amadou Diallo case.

Not even close.

[leodem]

33. Funny thing is....

This guy is from Malibu, what is he robbing a bank? The Bush tax cuts for his family weren't enough to pay for that nice beach house he had to go rob a bank. :)

[darkstar]

42. Funny, thing in'it?

How we at DU--generally speaking, now, w/ no offence to the dissenters--understand the concept of "Stop when the cops say stop" but the, ahem, much more patriotic pro-law and order types at Freeptown have trouble with the concept of "Come out with your hands in the air," i.e. Ruby Ridge and Waco's and the unheeded responses over 40-50 days. And that's not to vindicate anyone in those deaths, this death, or to downplay the deaths themselves. Sure this should be reviewed, as should have RR and Waco. However, its always stuck me as strange that the Freep-types ignore the fact that RR and Waco could have been avoided by simply following the authorities' demands.

[bubblesby2002]

44. I'm sure this will make the Sierra Times Whack 'em and

Stack 'em gallery. It's always the same isn't it? Once the police kill someone it's always a righteous shoot isn't it?

[mike1963]

45. I didn't see this but think a lot of folks are missing the big picture...

a 90 minute chase literally puts thousands of people at risk. My best friend back in 1963 became a cop in Tulsa and in his 3rd month got into a chase after a stolen car. He swerved to miss someone starting to cross the street (at Admiral & Lewis) and had a head-on collision with another car. It killed him and 3 people in the other car. I have to assume the LA cops had a helicopter following the guy - they should have backed off the ground chase and let the chopper report where he would have eventually stopped.
:grr:

[Rex]

51. My exact thoughts

you cannot evade a chopper (well maybe, but I wouldn't know how) and the perp would think he got away. When he finally stops (out of gas) then nab his ass!

Sorry about your friend, cops have a thankless job IMO.

[Muddleoftheroad]

55. Yes you can

A few hours of wasted time watching Cops can tell you how. All you have to do is get in a busy area and bail out into a crowd. Or find an area with lots of tree cover and bail out again.

Air and ground police work best in tandem in such a situation.

[pinniped]

53. This officer is a seasoned veteran.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-chase25feb25,1,4305762.story?coll=la-headlines-california

Officer Involved in Fatal Shooting Had Used His Gun Before

By Richard Winton, Times Staff Writer

One of the three Los Angeles police officers who shot and killed a robbery suspect as he slowly backed his car toward them is a decorated eight-year veteran with two prior shootings — including another at a moving car — officials said Tuesday

Officer Manuel Solis, 30, previously fired at two suspects in 1998, department records show. Both shootings were found to be justified.

more:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-chase25feb25,1,4305762.story?coll=la-headlines-california

------------------------

Cops wasted some kid around here last year or two for allegedly doing the same thing. He was allegedly backing up on officers while they approached the stolen vehicle.

He was stuck in traffic but I don't think they chased him. The vehicle was reported stolen and they initiated a stop. His parents said he didn't know how to drive a 5-speed too well and the car rolled backwards by accident.