Log Cabin leader blasted Bush just now on CNN

[varun]

...and said that Bush had declared a war on gays and lesbians in America.

The pro amendment guy (Rep. Hayworth (R) - cosponsor of the amendment) brushed aside the question when asked how same sex marriages affect his marriage. He also kept on bringing the polygamy issue.

Patrick Guerrero (leader of Log Cabin) was quite effective in his rebuttal.

[muchacho]

1. I wonder...

If the LCR will now feel more comfortable being defined Gay over conservative.

I mean for a Gay person how is there any upside in belonging to that club aside from tax breaks and hob-nobbing with with paternalistic surrogates?

[Gothic Sponge]

3. I'll never understand Log Cabin Repugs

It's almost as crazy as Jews for Hitler.

[mac56]

5. Or "Retarded Death Row Prisoners For Bush".

Jon Stewart came up with that one, IIRC.

[Ganja Ninja]

11. Or chickens that vote for Colonel Sanders.

[barbaraann]

22. Or Schoolteachers for Bush.

n/t

[The Zanti Regent]

10. Those who lay down in log cabins shouldn't be surpirsed...

...to wake up with splinters.

Really, these Log Cabin types act just like battered spouses. Are they of the same mindset that they cannot get enough abuse and keep going back for more?

[Fridays Child]

23. A point of clarification...

Battered spouses almost never want their spouses to continue abusing them. More typically, they are psychologically disabled by the abuse and economically trapped in the relationship.

[stanwyck]

38. I'm with you

I have never been able to fathom these people. Sure, I can understand the fiscal conservative argument. But how in the world does that trump your civil rights? I may not agree with everything in the Democratic platform (although, offhand, I can't think of any departure), but that doesn't mean I'd consider defecting to the Repubs. over just one issue. Log Cabin Republicans make absolutely no sense. When I've spoken to these guys (and they have been all "guys"), they're very liberal on social issues. So how does "fiscal conservative" (which the Bushies ARE NOT) outweigh all of the other extremely important social issues?

[Old and In the Way]

4. I assume the LCR must be a big time fiscal conservative.

So given the liberal taxcut and spend policies of today's Republicans, I can't fathom why any gay would identify with the whacked out party of Dimson, Tom DeLay, and Rick Santorum.

[megatherium]

6. These days, it might be war

that keeps the LCRs in the republican party. Lots of conservatives think Bush is doing the Lord's work by pressing war in the middle east.

[muchacho]

9. But...

ten this same club uses the "Lords work" milarky for fighting against Gay marriages.

I mean of we are right for fighting in the middle east they must be right to repress Gays? Or is the Lord just mistaken on this count?

[SquireJons]

13. Makes No Sense...

I have never understood the LCR's. Everyone of them I have ever seen speak has been well educated, articulate, and reasonable (a rarity in rebugs). So why would they support a party that wants to deny them basic living rights and scorns them so badly? Some say it's because of fiscal conservatism, but I'm 43 and have yet to see an example of republican fiscal conservatism. Under Reagan we blew the budget to smithereens and loaded up with debt. Under bush 41 we had high taxes, low employment and a recession. Now under shrub we have no jobs, a recession (sorry folks, but it's not really over yet) and run away spending. So how can pugs claim to be fiscally conservative? It's just a matter of who they give the money to. I suppose some of those on the receiving end must be gay.

[Gunit_Sangh]

2. Polygamy issue

Yeah ... I saw that last night on Larry King. He had 4 people on his show, a gay, a minister, a repug congresswoman (who I think will introduce the amendment in congress), and the mayor of San Francisco. Polygamy or group marriage was mentioned just above every time the congresswoman opened her mouth. I think she even brought up that this would lead to legalizing incest.

Of course this is the same kind of retoric that was used back in the 60's when interracial marriages were banned in 16 states and *activist* judges overturned those laws.

[leQ]

7. why hasn't anybody told these idiots that polygamy is

generally practiced by heterosexual married couples who probably would be divorced otherwise. that this has absolutely nothing to do with 'gay' marriages.

[markus]

8. No, the arguments are different than those over "miscegenation"

I am just old enough at 46 to remember the civil rights movement from the perspective of a white child in the South. I don't believe these arguments were used, but the tone of doom to civilization is familiar.

Because this is about gender rather than race, I am not surprised at the specious arguments about polygamy, incest, bestiality, and every other bit of junk they are dredging up. It fits is a twisted, I-believe-the-world-was-created-6,000-year-ago-on-Saturday sort of way.

I'm straight, and these people (those people, not my GLBT friends) disgust me. How did the Christianity become the Cult of Psuedo-Christian Hate?

For now I guess we need to keep the argument civil: pointing out that the amendment would also ban civil unions, the domestic partnership benefits in place at every major corporation in America (or at least every corporation with half-decent beneifts), and enshrine a particular majoritarian prejudice in a document that is (and should remain) a shining beacon of how to condcut a just and civil society.

How can we expect to tell the Shiites to stop killing other Iraqeis and our own soldiers and get with the Democratic Program when we're about to launch our nation on its first pogrom?

[ewagner]

12. Excellent post markus.........

I saw the Mayor of San Francisco on TV with the Repub Congresswoman and I was upset a little that he didn't rhetorically knock her teeth down her throat on the "polyogmy" point. I think she scored some debate points by constantly badgering him with "You didn't answer the question" To the Mayor's credit, he did call the issue a "red herring and a stinking one at that". Now that idiot J.D. Hayworth from Arizona is using the same talking point. The Repubs have their lines down and we must counter them with a succinct answer.

What suggestions are there for answering the polyogmy question? Who has the best answer?

[rawtribe]

31. Not a crime.

Polygamy, incest and bestiality are all crimes in these United States. Being gay is not. That is how you answer that.

I like Karel's commentary in the Advocate on the LCR.

Wolves in sheep’s clothing will still tear you apart
For any gay Republican who has missed the news in the past few weeks, here’s a bulletin: The Republican Party, in the form of the president of the United States, thinks you’re a second-class citizen, and they’d like to write that into the U.S. Constitution. Here’s one gay non-Republican who’s had just about enough of the “changing the party from the inside” mantra. It isn’t working.
By Charles Karel Bouley II 

http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/909/909_bouley_republicans.asp



=============================

The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government -- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ----------------- Patrick Henry

[calimary]

32. That was Marilyn Musgrave, from Colorado.

She was shameless. I was waiting for somebody to butt in and say "Girlfriend! MY, but we are SO obsessed with this polygamy bit!" She clung to that, and group-marriage, every friggin' time! Probably a dozen different mentions. I'm SURE this is a widely-distributed, officially-sanctioned talking point. Others in the knuckle-dragger squad are repeating this mantra over and over, too, apparently. She had the same sanctimonious look on her face that they all do. Oh yes, and the "activist judges" buzzphrase was hauled out multiple times, as well.

PLEASE! NOTE MY SIG LINE! HOW YOU CAN CALL HER, FOR FREE, AND GIVE HER A PIECE OF HER MIND!!!

I noted, also, that there were two calls of probably 6 or 7, that supported her and the religioso on with her. Everyone else, including a self-proclaimed "staunch republican" (who also said he was going to do his utmost to ensure that bush is defeated!), and a man with a gay son for whom he desperately wanted a happy life and official recognition of the son's longtime relationship) - was against this Neanderthal proposal. It was encouraging. If that was even a small indication of how the public sees this, then I'm feeling a little bit better about America.

on edit - I just took my own advice and called her office (TOLL FREE!) and let her know that, like the majority of the callers to "Larry King" last night, I think most Americans do NOT want discrimination put into our Constitution!

ALSO, I kept waiting for SOMEBODY to quote the Bible back to these people: the pastor fellow kept quoting Biblical passages, and I wanted so much for someone to jump in and remind the guy - "uh, YES, sir, but the Bible also said the world was created in 7 days..."
And then it would also have been nice to hear someone remind them all that the Bible also says "judge not lest ye be judged."

[varun]

36. I just called...

that 800 number...and spoke to Rep Muscgrave's secretary...and gave him a piece of my mind.

:mad:

[9215]

14. There are alot of closet gays in

the Repug party. IMO a much bigger # than the LCR's represent.

[Gothic Sponge]

15. Sad.....

Gays can fight for this country, but when they come home they can't marry. I hope this is a final wake up call to the LCR.

[calimary]

33. Woah! GREAT point!!

[Odallas]

16. BTW

There is no evidence Abraham Lincoln was Bi-sexual. It was not unusual for two men to share a bed in the mid 1800s because homes lacked consistent heating systems. Many juicy bits of gossip about Lincoln era Springfield have survived the years and are well known today here in central Illinois, and a Bi Lincoln is not one of them.

[Gothic Sponge]

17. LOL!...i'm sorry

A "Bi Lincoln" just sounds like a bad band name.

[Onlooker]

21. Actually, some historians think Lincoln could have been gay

It was not unusual for 2 men to share a bed in the mid-1800s, but for 4 years? That seems a little odd. Also, Lincoln's relationship with Ann Rutledge is doubted by a large number of historians, and I many historians say that he nearly ended his relationship with Mary Todd. I don't believe there were any other women in his life, so if he did not have a relationshp with Ann Rutledge, it's possible more went on in that bed he shared with a man than some people (not me) would like to believe.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. I've been a historian for more years than I care to count, and this...

...is the very first time I've EVER heard that particular theory.

By any chance, do you have a link?

[SiobhanClancy]

29. I heard this rumor quite a while ago....

I did some research and it seemed to have its origins in the fact that Lincoln often shared a bed with other men while traveling as a circuit lawyer,and also when he was a storekeeper. Of course,any historian would know that sharing beds was quite common in the 19th century.....even among total strangers while staying in inns during travels. It also wasn't odd to share a bed with a friend,even for a long period. He was hesitant about marriage,but that may have been due to his melancholia and other issues. He seems to have liked the company of other women to the extent that his wife was often quite jealous of them(her emotional state was no doubt a factor in this)

[Onlooker]

30. Here are a few things ...

1) http://www.gayheroes.com/abe.htm

Granted the person offering the theory is Larry Kramer, who is something of a gay radical, so is prone to interpret events to support his desires.

(2) http://glreview.com/

The Gay and Lesbian Review Worldwide is the most legitimate gay intellectual magazine I know of. Unfortunately, their website does not show its articles. But, in their current issue they write about how there is increasing doubt that Abe really had a lovers relationship with Ann Rutledge. If Abe and Ann were not lovers, it means that Abe did not have a woman in his life until he got married at 33.

(3) A few years ago, I read an article, but I can't remember where, that claimed it was pretty unusual for a guy to share a bed with the same guy for several years. Workers often slept in the same bed, but not for year after year. Also, I read that some of Abe's letters to the guy he shared the bed with were a little over the top, even for the era in which they were written.

I'm not saying Abe was definitely gay, but I think it's legitimate topic for historical debate.

[KansDem]

34. Given the isolation of some heroic American icons...

wasn't homosexuality an accepted part of American life? For example, rugged mountainmen and sea-going sailors during the 17th-19th centuries often spent months or years in the company of other males. Are we supposed to believe they maintained "straight" lifestyle "choices?"

[varun]

37. holding hands, showing affection...

...between persons of the same sex is not uncommon in many parts of the world.

In India, it is common to see guys walking hand in hand...but they are not gay.

Unfortunately, with media spreading homophobia, and westernization, this is disappearing.

Is it possible, that during Lincoln's time, such affection was acceptable?

[Skittles]

18. AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

ARE YOU JUST NOW FIGURING OUT YOU SUPPORT A BUNCH OF HOMOPHOBIC, RACIST BIGOTS ?????????????????????????? :nopity:

[Gothic Sponge]

19. My guess is..... most are fiscal repugs, but i bet

some (if not many) of the LCR could be racist. There is no rule saying gays can't be racist......who knows......?

[TheDonkey]

20. They should endorse the Democratic nominee

the Log Cabin guy has similair views to that of Kerry & Edwards.

[74dodgedart]

24. On the Daley show...

They suggested there should be a constitutional ban on adultery since that was more damaging to the institution of marriage.

[mumon]

25. They came for the poor...

but I wasn't poor, so I did not notice...

They came for the Arabs, but I wasn't Arab, so I did not notice...

They came for the abortion providers, but I was not one so I did not notice...


They came for the gays...

[niceypoo]

27. JD hayworth is a GOP goofball

They always bring him out for making wild claims and defending non issues. His "Polygamy" tack wont wash with voters. Neither will Santorums "Sons marrying mothers" line. If these are their main excuses for changing the constitution then the GOP will walk away from this issue looking like total fools. Everything Bush touches turns to shit.

[bushisanidiot]

28. Waiting to Hear What Mary Cheney Has to say..

[David__77]

35. I appreciate the Log Cabin response. They should be commended.

They are going to use all their resources on opposing this amendment. That's something I can wholeheartedly support.