Clare Short's Admissions

[MichaelUK]

Okay, it's news from the UK but it's probably true for the USA as well.

Clare Short, an ex-member of Tony Blair's government (she quit over the UK going to war in Iraq), was on BBC Radio 4 this morning

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3488548.stm

She claims that British agents bugged Kofi Annan's office in the UN, and that she saw transcripts of it.

So, if the UK are doing it, is the US?

[Spentastic]

1. Welcome to DU

From a fellow Brit. I'd do a bit of editing if I were you or your thread will be locked. The rules are provided before you post :)

Yes the Americans were doing it of course they were also threatening to withold aid etc.

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. UK does some spying in the US, and vice versa

and they exchange the results. That way, they can use diplomatic immunity if things go pear-shaped.

Also on the programme, someone said that a American National Security Agency employee was asked to comment on the spying on the 6 Security Council members; his reply was "only 6? Someone should be sacked".

[zanana]

11. Go "pear-shaped"?

What does this mean?

[JohnyCanuck]

15. Get all F***** UP n/t

n/t

[T_i_B]

16. Very common English phrase

It means "all going wrong".

It's used more in some parts of the UK than others though. Here in Essex it is very common, but I can remember useing the term myself in North Yorkshire and getting some very funny looks.

[LiviaOlivia]

3. I have no doubt

whatsoever that the Feds have had that building bugged since it was built.

[leftchick]

4. "Britain spied on Kofi Annan in run-up to Iraq war: ex-minister"

I like the AFP headline....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1504&ncid=1504&e=2&u=/afp/20040226/ts_afp/britain_iraq_un_spy_040226100534

Thanks for posting and welcome to DU :)

[T_i_B]

5. Here's the transcript

She did sound remarkably relaxed about the whole business when I heard it. Anyway, very useful link on the matter.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1156820,00.html

JH: What this memo showed - the secret memo that Katherine Gun disclosed - what it showed was pressure from the United States on other countries to get support for a second UN resolution and spying indeed on those countries. Do you believe that Britain, our government, might have been involved in that with the United States?

CS: Well there was enormous ... on a second resolution, of course it's clear now there was a date for war so they didn't mean Blix do his job and then come to a second resolution if need be, but they were going to war anyway and they were going to bully and pressurise countries to vote for it. I mean enormous pressure was brought to bear, Valerie Amos, Lady Amos, went round Africa with people from our intelligence services trying to press them. I had to make sure that we didn't promise the misuse of aid in a way that would be illegal.

JH: But did someone suggest, sorry can I just question you on that for a second. Did someone suggest that might have been the right strategy?

CS: We were worried that was going to be done and went to some trouble to make sure her briefing made it clear that that could not legally be done. I Mean the UK in this time was also spying on Kofi Annan's office and getting reports from him about what was going on. The US was pressing Chile and Mexico, enormous pressures were brought to bear - I mean what was remarkable was that these countries didn't break. And if you remember, the other part of the context is we were then all deceived about the French position and told the French had said they would veto any second resolution, which wasn't true, we now know. Chirac had said we veto now because Blix needs his time but if Blix failed then of course we would vote with others to authorise military action

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

6. Blair press conference: "I'm not going to comment

on intelligence and security matters" (repeat ad infinitum). 'To do so would undermind the security of our country', etc

'Its tempting to takl about people who talk about our security services as whistleblowers ... but it really is the height of irresponsibility to expose them to this kind of scrutiny.'

Q's trying to get him to comment on whether spying on the UN violates the Vienna Convention & Blair's simply repeating "like all previous prime minister's I'm not going to comment on security matters."

I don't think that Short's going to get prosecuted under the OSA, else he'd probably have hinted more strongly at that - but that's my interpretation.

lol - Blair "conspiracy theorists will say that it's all a terrible plot (Blair's refusal to speak about the matter)"

on edit:

Jon Snow got the best Q -- his sources close to the Katherine Gun prosecution have told him that the Attorney General counseled all through 2002 that war was illegal & only changed his mind in January 2003. Surely it's in the national interest to publish his full advice.

Blair -- We disclosed the full legal advise.

Snow -- You didn't.

Blair -- It is wrong for a government to disclose everything that the Attorney General used in making his legal opinion. No prime minister has ever done this.

Snow -- So do you deny that as of Dec 2002, the Attorney General counseled the war would be illegal without a 2nd UN resolution?

Blair -- If you go back & look at his advice, you'll see that your assumption is wrong. THe Iraq Survey Group has already shown that Iraq was in breach of 1441 as well as earlier UN resolutions.

--

prior to that, Ellenor Goodman asked basically whether Short should be prosecuted under the OSA or has the collapse of the Gun case rendered that impossible.

Blair - It's a problem if people think they can just disclose secrets because they undermine the security of the country.

[T_i_B]

19. Independent story

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=495319

Tony Blair today insisted that Britain's intelligence services always act within domestic and international law.

Mr Blair said those who comment on national intelligence "attack the work that our security services are doing and undermine the security of this country". And he added: "The fact that these allegations were made is deeply irresponsible."

Mr Blair was asked whether Ms Short should remain a Labour MP. He said: "These are issues I will have to reflect upon."

Mr Blair also said he would not discuss the case of former intelligence service worker Katharine Gun, who was acquitted yesterday of breaching the Official Secrets Act despite admitting leaking a US request for help in bugging the UN.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

7. You're an Aberdonian? My brother's one of those. Welcome to DU.

[Mokito]

8. Katharine Gun related?

She blew the whistle on a NSA-memo requesting the UK to do some spying on the UN (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3507533.stm).

It's the fact that this news follows so fast upon the news of acquittal in the K.G. case that has Britain troubled.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

9. It was in the context of an interview re Gun

that Short said this. My guess is she figures that if Gun can walk away from an OSA charge, then they wouldn't dare try to prosecute her.

[Francis]

10. hell hath no fury

Claire Short has lost all credibility. with her I will resign speech on bbc radio followed by nothing for weeks.
I would prefer it if darling Claire had been a bit more outraged by it when she was in the cabinet.
I loved her answer when asked by the bbc if it was legal, she said she supposed it must be. If that's not an attempt at a CYA statement I don't know what is

[T_i_B]

17. Here is the transcript again.

It all started off with Gun, but Ms Short did digress somewhat and the whole issue is starting to baloon a little thanks to this.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1156820,00.html

John Humphrys: What do you make of it all ?

Clare Short: Well I think it centres on the attorney general's advice that war was legal and resolution 1441, which was published, as a matter of fact, but was very, very odd. The more I think about it the more fishy I feel it was. It came very, very late, he came to the cabinet the day Robin Cook resigned and sat in Robin's seat; two sides of A4; no discussion permitted. We know already that the Foreign Office legal advisers had disagreed and one of them had said there was no authority for war. The Liberals have been pressing for the brief on the basis of which he said there was authority for war, there's a question of whether the exaggeration of the threat and the immediacy of the threat from any possible biological or chemical weapons in Iraq was part of the brief for the attorney general so that he would give the legal authority. So my own suspicion is that the attorney has stopped the prosecution because part of her defence would was to question legality and put his advice in the public domain again and there was something fishy about the way in which he said the war was legal.

JH: What this memo showed - the secret memo that Katherine Gun disclosed - what it showed was pressure from the United States on other countries to get support for a second UN resolution and spying indeed on those countries. Do you believe that Britain, our government, might have been involved in that with the United States?

CS: Well there was enormous ... on a second resolution, of course it's clear now there was a date for war so they didn't mean Blix do his job and then come to a second resolution if need be, but they were going to war anyway and they were going to bully and pressurise countries to vote for it. I mean enormous pressure was brought to bear, Valerie Amos, Lady Amos, went round Africa with people from our intelligence services trying to press them. I had to make sure that we didn't promise the misuse of aid in a way that would be illegal.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

12. The US did spy...

on (if I remember correctly) 6 members of the UN Security Counsel in the time leading up to the possible vote on the Iraq situation.

It was reported in the British press and got a little play here in the US.

[myrna minx]

13. Here's the link...from Sunday March 9, 2003

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,910657,00.html

UN launches inquiry into American spying

Martin Bright, Ed Vulliamy in New York and Peter Beaumont
Sunday March 9, 2003
The Observer

The United Nations has begun a top-level investigation into the bugging of its delegations by the United States, first revealed in The Observer last week.
Sources in the office of UN Secretary General Kofi Annan confirmed last night that the spying operation had already been discussed at the UN's counter-terrorism committee and will be further investigated.

The news comes as British police confirmed the arrest of a 28-year-old woman working at the top secret Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) on suspicion of contravening the Official Secrets Act.

more...

[proud patriot]

14. may God keep her safe

Brave brave woman

[moondust]

18. Such gentlemen of good faith.

Partners in building a better world...

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[dArKeR]

20. SHORT: BRITAIN BUGGED UN CHIEF KOFI ANNAN - Mirror

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13990932_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-SHORT%2D%2DBRITAIN%2DBUGGED%2DUN%2DCHIEF%2DKOFI%2DANNAN-name_page.html