U.S. May Not Release Acquitted Detainees

[kpete]

Source: Wall Street Journal

By JESS BRAVIN

WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration said Tuesday it may continue to imprison non-U.S. citizens indefinitely even if they have been acquitted of terrorism charges by a U.S. military commission.

Jeh Johnson, the Defense Department's chief lawyer, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that releasing a detainee who has been tried and found not guilty was a policy decision officials would make based on their estimate of whether the prisoner posed a future threat. The Bush administration took the same position, but its legality was never tested.

Also at the hearing, Obama administration officials differed with the Navy's senior uniformed lawyer over whether coerced statements could be used to obtain convictions before military commissions.

David Kris, head of the Justice Department's National Security Division, told the committee that federal courts might reverse convictions if they were based on coerced statements. Military judges could consider "battlefield realities" when weighing whether to admit statements, he said, but the ultimate question was whether an admission was forced.

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124699680303307309.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Innocence is no reason to let people walk around free!

That's it: Bush and Cheney are still running the country.

[No Elephants]

40. Republicrats are running the country. If we blame Bush for this WH and this Congress,

there really is no hope for America.

If you misdiagnose, you mistreat.

[KakistocracyHater]

67. so much for "land of the free, home of the brave"

...

[Taverner]

2. This is fucked up. I don't get it.

[armodem08]

3. They're scared to death...

They're scared to death... that a detainee that they release will be implicated in an attack, thus handing the Repugs an issue for the 2012 elections.

I don't agree with them, of course, but I think that's where they're coming from.

They just need to do what's right here, PERIOD.

[pattmarty]

4. Change we can believe in??????? I'll tell ya what, so far I am..................

............not very impressed with the Obama administration. Looks like Clinton without the blowjob. He is not very aggressive in anything I have seen so far, and it is looking more and more that the "healthcare reform" isn't going to contain much "reform". If he doesn't get TRUE healthcare reform AND push for passage of EFCA I will be staying home on election day in 2010 and probably in 2012 also.

[Zhade]

52. More like "Change We Can't Believe In" So much for restoring the rule of law.

Never voting for this guy again. I don't reward liars.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. Meaning that someone convicted and imprisoned for:

murder
rape
violent assault
drunk driving
armed robbery
shooting a cop
making terroristic threats
domestic violence . . .

can be released eventually unless they're Charles Manson or Sirhan Sirhan or Mark David Chapman -- or someone living at Guantanamo.

[FiveGoodMen]

7. The key word there is 'convicted'

Obama's threatening to imprison those who've been acquitted.

That's a big difference.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

9. Well if he is going to keep the acquitted in prison then the guilty would surely remain longer?

Maybe forever? And I am sure the acquitted may turn bitter and will either try to escape - commit suicide or kill their guards which will cause them to be tried again and then once guilty realise they will never be freed. And then if they were originally not guilty, then they may turn bitter against the USA and will either try to escape - commit suicide or kill their guards.

[No Elephants]

41. Bingo.

[winyanstaz]

11. or a political prisoner like Leonard Peltier.

Still serving time after serving over 30 years for the crime of being an Indian I guess.

[Freddie Stubbs]

64. Actually, Peltier was convicted of murdering two FBI agents

[winyanstaz]

65. Actually they admit they dont have any evidence that it was him...

they actually said..."but someone has to pay".
Do a little homework. The gun was NOT his. He was not there at the time. There is no proof it was him, nothing, nada , zip, zeltch and they have admitted it.
This is one more reason an innocent man still sits in jail, people just dont care enough to even do any homework on the matter.

[ThirdWorldJohn]

6. They may as well be released. It is not like we are helping ourselves to win hearts and minds in

the Middle East by bombing innocent women children and babies from unmanned drones. And this is not even taking into account the pictures of those tortured that we are so fearful of letting the ACLU have access to. Is anyone stupid enough to think that this is not being talked about by the Muslims in the Middle East? Fuck what is 220 more people being released? Like a drop in the bucket.

And when it is reported to those in the Middle East that justice for them in the great USA is less than other people? Do you think that will make them less hostile to the USA? Maybe that is the plan. Why else would the military keep killing civilian women children and babies over there from bombs dropped by drones?

[clixtox]

8. Just like Manuel Noriega, his 20 year prison sentence was completed...

in September 2008!

We obviously are not a nation of laws.

Like criminals everywhere we only observe the convenient laws and ignore those "in the way".

We are the world's largest criminal enterprise! Imagine how proud the actual perps are... Our "leaders" and those controlling them from the shadows.

And we are not just murdering hundreds or thousands of innocent civilians as when "we" went in to Panama to kidnap Noriega!

Operation "Just Cause"! Can you believe the hubris and hypocrisy?

'Just (be)cause' we want to, and can, commit heinous war crimes against (defenseless) sovereign nations at will.

We murder hundreds of thousands, if not millions of innocent men, women and children.

Count the massacres of innocents we have perpetrated, starting with the genocide of the original inhabitants of this continent we so self-righteously stole.

Mass murder is the true history of the USA.

Creating an empire is never pretty or neat.

Believe it or not...

[IndianaGreen]

21. Our government is being exposed for the sham and the fraud it always was

We were led to believe that it was a government of the people and by the people, instead it is a government of the oligarchs, the bankers, and the financiers.

If the working class wants real change, it will have to take power away from our oppressors.

[winyanstaz]

10. This is bullshit and there is no longer any doubt....

we are still on the same path that we were with Bush and co.
I dont even want to hear any excuses about chess or ponies or any other crap by the sheeple.
Keeping innocent people that have been found innocent by the courts locked up is just WRONG, a fucking crime in itself and we all damned well know it.

[shadowknows69]

13. +1000

[Dinger]

47. Dumb Question

I admit ignorance here, but what what does "+1000" mean?

[shadowknows69]

49. When +1 just isn't enough. In short. I agree wholeheartedly.

[No Elephants]

42. Chess pipe dreams and pony cracks hardly rise to the level of

an excuse for real life conduct. Neither does "five months," when doing the correct thing does not take any more time, effort or money than doing the wrong and/or illegal thing.

Not proscuting Bush--a decision made much too hastily, probably in the self-interested hope of reciprocity from future administrations. Burying the rule of law as to the Executive Branch did save time in the short term, but what is the long term cost to America of that time saving generosity?

Closing Gitmo while using extraordinaary rendition and Bargram is deceptive, not a time saver. To the contrary, all the to do over closing Gitmo is a waste of time and effort, when torture/executions is the issue, not the buildings.

So is refusing to use power und 10 USC 12305 to suspend DADT discharges, while lying that only Congress can to anything at all about DADT. Suspending the discharges would have taken Obama a signature on Inauguration Day.

And so on.

[Freddie Stubbs]

48. Prisoners of War do not have to be released until the end of the war

There is no need to even charge them under international law.

[shadowknows69]

50. What country are we at war with again?

The BS "War on terror" has no borders and also will have no ending.

[Freddie Stubbs]

54. Congress has authorized the use of force in both Iraq and Afghanistan

[shadowknows69]

56. And Pakistan? And the war powers act does have its limitations

Why am I bothering? If you're a cheerleader for this shit you aren't worth debating with.

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists gives the President the power to

use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.

http://www.thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:SJ00023:@@@D&summ2=m&|TOM:/bss/d107query.html|

As for the War Powers Act, what part of that would President Obama be in violation of? We currently have no troops in Pakistan.

[Zhade]

53. Fuck you, fascist.

NT!

[Freddie Stubbs]

55. I suppose if you dont have any facts on your side, obscenities and name-calling is all that you have

[shadowknows69]

57. So any of our soliders captured by the Taliban or Iraqi resistance

You have no problem with them being held until we declare the "War on Terror" over with?

[Freddie Stubbs]

58. That's like asking if I am ok with those people shooting at our soliders

[shadowknows69]

60. People wouldn't be shooting at our soldiers if we didn't invade their countries

But I knew you wouldn't have a real answer for that one.

[Freddie Stubbs]

61. They were already there when Obama took office

[shadowknows69]

62. Welcome to ignore Hawkman.

[Freddie Stubbs]

63. I suppose that it is easier to ignore someone if you can't win an arguement with them

[Zhade]

68. I've found over the years that facts are lost on you. So, again, fuck you.

NT!

[YankmeCrankme]

66. You're a dumbass

They have already been classified as "not prisoners of war" by the government, or did you forget that, otherwise we'd have to treat them like prisoners of war and follow the Geneva Conventions.

[Zhade]

69. Of course he's a dumbass -- he's a conservative.

And no, he didn't forget. He's been reminded countless times. He's just a liar.

[Freddie Stubbs]

71. So, if they are not governed by the Geneva Convention, does that mean that

there is no international law saying that they must be released?

[Ken Burch]

72. We don't have to accept that they aren't covered by the GC

That was Cheney and Dubbikins' line. There's no excuse for Obama not repudiating it.

[Boddingham]

12. Time honored legal principles tossed down the drain.

Abrogation of habeas corpus is the most vile of the so-called patriot act provisions. Whatever happened to the rule of law? What comes around goes around. The conflict and terror continue. Who benefits? Does due process apply, or not? The future blood that will be shed if we do not put an end to this is on our government's hands. That means you and me.

[shadowknows69]

14. Welcome to DU. .

[Boddingham]

45. Thank you, Shadow.

I've lurked for a while. :)

[Yupster]

19. The GM bankruptcy sent 200 years

of bankruptcy law flying out the window.

Just saying.

[scarface2004]

15. we are all nazis now!!!

what kind of threat can these poor souls pose!!! total bullshit fascist political asswipes all!!!!!

[Flaneur]

16. Kafka feels inadequate now.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Enough of this 'Change You Can Believe In'

This is Bushism without Bush!

[Mari333]

20. +10

[thereismore]

18. WTF WTF is that! nothing further.

[TPaine7]

22. Detainees, Even if Acquitted, Might Not Go Free

Source: Wall Street Journal

WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration said Tuesday it could continue to imprison non-U.S. citizens indefinitely even if they have been acquitted of terrorism charges by a U.S. military commission.

Jeh Johnson, the Defense Department's chief lawyer, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that releasing a detainee who has been tried and found not guilty was a policy decision that officials would make based on their estimate of whether the prisoner posed a future threat.

Like the Bush administration, the Obama administration argues that the legal basis for indefinite detention of aliens it considers dangerous is separate from war-crimes prosecutions. Officials say that the laws of war allow indefinite detention to prevent aliens from committing warlike acts in future, while prosecution by military commission aims to punish them for war crimes committed in the past.

Mr. Johnson said such prisoners held without trial would receive "some form of periodic review" that could lead to their release.

Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124699680303307309.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

---

As the story says, this is "Like the Bush administration."

Obama desperately needs to clearly and publicly articulate principles that underlie his policies and separate them from Bush's. He's starting to look more and more like a hypocrite.

[Adir Pykhtin]

23. Innocent until proven what? n/t

[masuki bance]

24. Hey, so ..uh.. what didya think of the funeral? anyway... nt

[midnight]

25. It's like the bush administration, because well, there are so

many career DOJ members of bush adm. put into those last minute holdover positions. Transfer them to the basement.

[masuki bance]

27. Nice pass your giving out there. Do you think these people can just do

whatever they want?

[JustinL]

30. Jeh Johnson is not a holdover

wikipedia:

On January 8, 2009, President-elect Barack Obama announced Johnson's nomination as Department of Defense General Counsel. On February 9, 2009, he was confirmed by the Senate.

[billyoc]

26. I didn't say Bush-Obama Doctrine.

:hide:

[Divine Discontent]

34. smell that billyoc?

that's leftover eggs in the carton starting to smell really rotten.... you'd think after 6 months they'd have 'thrown out the bad eggs', huh?

"Change I WANT to believe in - Sameness I CAN see!"

:(

[bluestateguy]

28. The story lacks credibility and is chock full of anonymous sources and speculation

nt

[Dragonfli]

29. Yes of course, the "anonymous" Mr. Johnson

All lies I tell ya. All lies! :eyes:

[masuki bance]

31. Like the anonymous Emmanuel yesterday. nt

[Greyhound]

32. Oooo, I'm all warm and snuggly from believing in that change.

Meet the new boss...:eyes:
:kick: & R

[Divine Discontent]

33. at times - "Change I WANT to believe in - Sameness I CAN see!"

:(

[Grinchie]

35. How many chief lawyers can they muster to continue this charade

Somebody pinch to wake up out of this nightmare.

Have I missed the Coup? WTF is going on?

[ima_sinnic]

36. if I were a student in his "constitutional law" class, I'd sue for a refund

I will not be voting for the fake "constitutional scholar" or "community organizer" again. I hope his little cheerleader sycophants start calling me again around election day so I can tell them exactly what I think of their unquestioning loyalty to bush II.

[Kaleko]

37. This is unacceptable. n/t

[buckrogers1965]

43. Rule of Law.

If we allow the government to violate anyone's inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then that will come back to bite each and everyone of us in the ass.

Under what basis of law are they detaining these people? If they cannot press charges, they must be released. They have already stated the detainees are not prisoners of war. Indeed, we are not even at war because congress has not issued a formal declaration of war.

[clixtox]

38. K & R...

Where did this thread disappear to? Too provocative???

[Dragonfli]

39. It was blended with another thread (conveniently dropping all the recs) nt

[ohio2007]

44. purification laws must be observed

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. "You're innocent, you may now spend the rest of your life in prison."

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?

[Zhade]

51. BUSH IS AN ASSHO-- Oh. This is Obama. My bad.

Fucking. Criminal.

[ibegurpard]

70. Don't like the sounds of this

No, don't like it all.