Venezuela: No Zelaya, No Oil

[L. Coyote]

Source: cubaweb

Caracas, Jul 8.- Venezuela halted daily 20,000 oil barrel shipments to Honduras until cabinet President Manuel Zelaya return to power, said Economy and Oil Minister Rafael Ramirez.

Minister Ramirez, who confirmed the announcement by cabinet President Hugo Chavez, told Panorama daily that Venezuela halted oil supply to Honduras under the terms of Petrocaribe agreement.

He added that Venezuela will no longer give fuel to a dictatorship and a small group of businessmen involved in the coup against Zelaya.

Read more: http://www.cadenagramonte.cubaweb.cu/english/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=613:venezuela-no-zelaya-no-oil&catid=2:cuba&Itemid=14

---

This is the entire breaking news article.
No doubt, more will follow from other sources.

[redqueen]

1. Wow.

It'll be interesting to see how this situation is portrayed in different media outlets.

[EFerrari]

6. The right wing Honduran media will probably call him a terrorist.

These have to be the stupidest wing nuts EVER. Calling the American president racial ephithets, asking INTERPOL to arrest Zelaya when they won't let him in the country, pissing off the guy who provides their oil. It's like a whole bunch of uglier Sarah Palins!

:crazy:

[L. Coyote]

36. You itching for a lawsuit? LOL.

Shouldn't "a whole bunch of uglier Sarah Palins!" be more targeted at actuality not perceptions, like

"a whole bunch of less intelligent Sarah Palins!" Oh, wait :rofl:

[EFerrari]

71. You know who these clowns really remind me of?

These viejitos from The Muppet Show
"It's time to dim the lights!"

lol

[conspirator]

65. get your crispy here

:popcorn:

[anonymous171]

2. Good. nt

[Jefferson23]

3. Holy shit! K&R

[Joanne98]

4. YAY

[EFerrari]

5. Viva!

[pscot]

27. Viva, Hugo!

Nice to see someone take charge.

[ensho]

7. good

nt

[Peace Patriot]

8. It's the sort of measure the US should be taking. We're pouring $49 million into rightwing

groups in Honduras, through the USAID-NED and other (US taxpayer funded) budgets, plus more multi-millions in military and other aid. This is all going to support a rightwing military coup, at the moment. And we might well ask, what is $49 million in US taxpayer money doing in the pockets of rightwing groups in Honduras AT ALL? In any case, we should stop it NOW. It is the only thing that these arrogant, racist, rich (on our dollar), fascist criminals will understand. Money.

[anonymous171]

9. +1.

[starroute]

14. NED funding might have helped instigate the coup as well

Two of the chief NED-funded groups are the International Republican Institute and the US Chamber of Commerce's Center for International Private Enterprise. CIPE has recently been attempting to destabilize things in Venezuela, in partnership with the local ultra-conservative group CEDICE. (See http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/charlie-hardy/2009/07/honduras-and-naked-woman-venezuela) And I just found this tying IRI (and CEDICE) to the coup in Honduras:

http://www.pr-inside.com/the-international-republican-institute-talks-r1371610.htm

2009-07-07 18:02:51 - The International Republican Institute (IRI), considered the international branch of the US Republican Party, and one of the four "core groups" of the congressionally created and funded National Endowment for Democracy (NED), apparently knew of the coup d'etat in Honduras against President Zelaya well in advance. . . . In addition to its presence on the ground in Honduras as part of its "good governance" and "political influence" programs, IRI Regional Program Director, Latin America and the Caribbean, Alex Sutton, has recently been closely involved with many of the organizations in the region that have backed the Honduran coup.

Sutton was a featured speaker at a recent 3-day conference held in Venezuela by the US-funded ultra-conservative Venezuelan organization CEDICE (Centro para la Divulgacion de Conocimiento Economico). CEDICE's director, Rocio Guijarra, was one of the principal executors of the 2002 coup d'etat against President Hugo Chavez, and Guijarra personally signed a decree installing a dictatorship in the country, which led to the coup's overthrow by the people and loyal armed forces of Venezuela.

The conference Sutton participated in, held from May 28-29 in Venezuela was attended by leaders of Latin America's ultra-conservative movement, ranging from Bolivian ex-president Jorge Quiroga, who has called for President Evo Morales of Bolivia's overthrow on several occasions, Peruvian Mario Vargas Llosa and his son Alvaro, both of whom have publicly expressed support for the coup against President Zelaya in Honduras, and numerous leaders of the Venezuelan opposition, the majority of whom are well known for their involvement in the April 2002 coup and subsequent destabilization attempts. The majority of those present at the CEDICE conference in May 2009, have publicly expressed support for the recent coup against President Zelaya.

But a more damning piece of evidence linking IRI to the Honduran coup, is a video clip posted on the institute's oen website at www.iri.org/multimedia.asp . . .

[EFerrari]

16. That Charlie Hardy article is excellent. Hits all the important points.

:thumbsup:

[starroute]

19. And here's a CIPE response to the coup

This CIPE blogger is attempting to pull a couple of interesting propaganda moves while walking a fine line. He reluctantly admits that the ouster of Zelaya "equates a coup," but he insists that it was widely supported in Honduras and that Zelaya is unlikely to be restored to power. And he further attempts to paint all the leftist regimes in the region as illegitimate and calls on OAS to condemn them as anti-democratic or else risk losing credibility among the real "democratic regimes of the region."

Some nice juggling there.

http://www.cipe.org/blog/?p=2626

July 1st, 2009

How the events unfold in Honduras will reshape the role of the Organization of American States in Inter-American affairs within the next couple of years. In the last year, the Organization’s Permanent Council, General Assembly and its Secretary General remained rather quiet in the face of rigged elections in Nicaragua, attacks on media outlets in Venezuela, Ecuador, or Peru by their governments, or actions by some branches of government - specially the executive - in the Western Hemisphere to alter the structure of checks and balances in their countries. These actions clearly undermined the rule of law and the principles of (liberal) democracy that the organization and its members agreed to defend and promote. . . .

An OAS’s Permanent Council resolution (CP/RES. 952 1699/09) called for all political and social actors to respect the rule of law prior to the events on Sunday June 28. Zelaya’s persistence undermined Honduras’ rule of law. The President’s removal from his country by the military equates a coup even though it has received wide support from Hondurans, the business community, and allegedly took place following the constitutional order Zelaya violated. . . .

Zelaya return to office in the next months seems unlikely as he lacks local support. Only if he fully agrees to abide by the rule of law and Honduras’ constitution he will be able to finish his term. Once Zelaya is back in power or shares it with Micheletti, the OAS and its governing bodies will need to respond with stronger positions and preemptively to face threats to democracy and the rule of law in the Western Hemisphere. That means condemning actions by the governments of Venezuela, Nicaragua, Honduras, Bolivia, Ecuador, or any other government in the region that undermines democracy, the rule of law, and constitutional order. If the OAS continues to remain silent in the occurrence of these challenges, it will lose the reduced credibility it has among the democratic regimes of the region.

[EFerrari]

21. These little fascists are delusional. The entire purpose in thwarting the survey

was to prevent participatory democracy. The military is running the country and these wing nuts are still dancing around the word "coup". :crazy:

[Grinchie]

80. Actually, it reads like a CIA report on the outcome they desire

It's too slick, and too well polished.

Note the use of "Reduced Credibility" at the end.. Republispeak for "You'll be called a chicken!", thus inflaming the latin macho curse.

[L. Coyote]

37. Don't you know, tax dollars to right-wing juntas comes back to the USA

:sarcasm: in the form of illegal campaingn contributions to the Republican Party! :rofl:

Just ask Marcos and Reagan!

[EFerrari]

68. Wow. I had forgotten all about that. Good memory, L. n/t

[amyrose2712]

46. What PP said. nt

[Grinchie]

77. But, the Contiuity of Government laws written by Bush..

Guarantee the right wing Junta's support for the next 10 years!


What do you want to do, abanadon them abruptly one day and watch them rise like another Al Qaeda? Oh wait, never mind.

[WriteDown]

10. Ironic cosidering that Hugo was involved in a coup in 1992....

This also reminds me a bit of the Cuban embargo.

[Robb]

11. In what way? nt

[WriteDown]

12. Just the usual...

I don't believe the Zelaya coup was a good thing, but I was hoping Honduras would work it out.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Grinchie]

81. Your tag line image is a keeper!

That is gold!

[EFerrari]

13. A coup against a homicidal regime. Yes, he was.

[WriteDown]

15. So a coup is alright as long as its a "good" coup?

I'd rather none at all.

[EFerrari]

17. You're drawing the wrong inference. Chavez apologised

to the nation and did his time. That's not enough for you? :)

[WriteDown]

18. Its fine, I was just noting the irony...

I've got no dog in the fight in Honduras.

[EFerrari]

20. They're right wing scumbags who took exactly 1 week to deplay death squads.

I hope they're kicked out before they hurt too many people.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WriteDown]

58. I have a theory that you are

a bridge troll. :rofl:

[MellowDem]

79. Not from what I've seen...

his/her posts are usually among the most reasonable I ever read.

[Vidar]

40. Just put him on ignore. There's no reasoning with him.

[Psephos]

49. I agree...it's important to avoid exposure to unapproved or impure opinions

Not only might it lead to questioning authority or even a habit of independent thinking, it might also corrupt one's bodily fluids. ;)

[WriteDown]

59. Reasoned with?

I stated above that I have no love of Zelaya or the new guy. I hope the people of Honduras get who they want or whoever will be the best leader .

[troubledamerican]

103. A coup d'etat is OK by you -- "No dog in the fight" where democracy is overthrown?

[WriteDown]

112. Zelaya is old money establishment...

He's not my ideal guy. I'm just waiting to see how this plays out. As long as their aren't numerous civilian casualties I am at least comforted.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. So you were against the attempt to assassinate Hitler?

[WriteDown]

60. Valid point...

This one doesn't seem as clear as the nazi's though. :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. So it's bad to murder Europeans but not Central Americans?

[WriteDown]

63. A lot more going on than that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honduran_coup

[Judi Lynn]

56. You'd "rahtha" no coups at all, but want to keep mentioning one of two coups in Venezuela

designed to remove a mass murdering tyrant, Carlos Andres Perez, who ordered first his police to fire into crowds of protesting Veneuelan citizens, the police walking away, refusing to do it, then the military who opened fire, killing around 3,000 of them, some of whom were bulldozed into a mass grave. The massacre was immediately named "El Caracazo" massacre.

Carlos Andres Perez was STILL impeached later, imprisoned, and removed from office. I've noticed certain kinds of posters ALWAYS refuse to acknowledge any of the facts pertaining to the protests, El Caracazo, the impeachment, the fact this event was a turning point in Venezuelan history.

More conscientious DU'ers will find it a good investment to spend a few minutes in research getting some background on "El Caracazo."

Carlos Andres Perez is an exalted, celebrated member of the Venezuelan ruling class, and has called for Chavez to be shot down in the streets. He knows a lot about shooting people down in the streets.

[WriteDown]

61. I was just remarking on two coups...

I never said the Chavez coup was bad.

[L. Coyote]

38. Not to mention, the Homies in Latin America threw off the Catholic Princes of Europe.

Sometimes a coup is a good thing, like when it ends slavery.

This one is in support of slavery, unfortunately, in the form of maintaining the maquiladoras.

[L. Coyote]

39. Yup.

But a good coup is in the eye of the beholder.
Democracy can be when there is no democracy, and a coup looks really good to a large plurality.
Democracy often begins with an overthrow of an oppressive junta, like in the USA.

[Judi Lynn]

57. Interesting you choose to sidestep the reason for that coup, one of TWO

against the killer President in office, and avoid discussing any of the reasons those TWO coups were attempted, and why the filthy scum Carlos Andres Perez was later impeached, after all, and removed from office.

[Peace Patriot]

75. President Hugo Chavez as a young officer participated in a leftist military rebellion

against a government that had opened fire on unarmed protestors, killing hundreds. He spent two years in jail for his participation in the rebellion against that fascist and murderous government, and in fact became a hero to the poor majority while in jail. He apologized and said that violence was not the way to achieve social justice. The voters of Venezuela forgave him and have voted for him as president, in large numbers, in the most transparent election process in this hemisphere and perhaps in the world--far, far more transparent than our own--in several elections over the last decade.

Are the Honduran coupsters in jail? Have they paid for their crime? Have they apologized for kidnapping the president at gunpoint and flying him out of the country against his will, declaring martial, suspending Constitutional rights, holding some 600 political prisoners and open firing on an unarmed crowd last Sunday?

Chavez's early history and the recent military/oligarchy coup in Honduras have nothing in common. George Washington, our first president, participated in a violent military rebellion against British rule. Is that to be held against him? All of our founders were rebels who supported violent rebellion, and would have been hung, or at least imprisoned, had they been caught by the British. I oppose violence because I don't think it changes hearts. I am a Gandhian. But I think that it is very important to distinguish between good and bad motives in evaluating violent incidents, and in particular to distinguish between a true revolutionary movement, wherein the people who are oppressed feel they have no recourse but to use violence, and events like this brutal farce in Honduras, wherein the rich elite is merely defending its privileges and its untoward power.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

90. I predict WriteDown won't reply to your post.

Too much truth in it, it's like expecting normal people to see infrared.

[L. Coyote]

111. Even if it means a Commie Pinko Dirtbag is right! LOL.

:rofl:

[ro1942]

22. leader

this man is not afraid to lead

[fascisthunter]

23. Good

[Buzz Clik]

24. That's hard core. But, in a world market, Honduras can find a new supplier in a wink of an eye.

[Judi Lynn]

51. The fascists WON'T be finding a source of oil for Honduras at a preferential rate,

as do the ALBA countries, and all countries involved in Petrocaribe agreements with Venezuela.

Since the dirty fascists have caused constant turmoil regarding Zelaya's arrangement for a hefty discounted oil price, it would be preposterous for Venezuela to keep selling to the very men who violently overthrew the people's elected President who secured that oil advantage.

[Grinchie]

82. Let them.

Just make a simple phone call, and it's done..

Hah hah hah hah hah. I'm sure Goldman Sachs, with all of the Oil Tankers it chartered and loaded up with oil in anticipation of another huge run up in oil will be happy to unload the unused, and currently unneeded oil, going nowhere tubs of crap and get a little of their funny money back because their little scheme ran into a little thing called, Worldwide reduced demand..

[Dave From Canada]

28. How is it a coup? Zelaya was trying to circumvent his supreme court and congress to change the

constitution. He was rightly expelled. Chavez needs to stop meddling in other countires politics.

[cosmicone]

29. He was being a populist.

The constitution was unfair and benefited only an oligarchy and the military beholden to it.

The supreme court is a puppet of the same oligarchy. He was taking it to the people -- in a truly democratic way.

[Dave From Canada]

53. Nope, what he was doing was wrong. He was trying to re-write the constitution, so that he can

remove himself from term limits. Term limits are one of eight "firm articles" that cannot be changed. He's just a dictator in waiting. And it speaks volumes that he's so closely associated with Chavez, and his ilk like Ahmadinejad. Every branch of government told him no, and he was going to be impeached because of it. I agree that he shouldn't have been ousted from power. He should have been allowed to defend himself against his impending impeachment.

[EFerrari]

66. Not even close, Dave, but your impression of a right winger is very good.

The objection isn't really to the non-binding survey but to participatory democracy. Zelaya was being to good to the working people. And do you know WHY Zelaya got "associated" with Chavez? Because Honduras needed financing and the IMF wanted to put this very poor nation so much deeper into debt with their vulture projects. Zelaya got a much better deal at ALBA.

That's what he did. He was too good to working people and he didn't play ball with the vultures.

At least they didn't kill him. Yet. And, btw, there are no grounds for impeachment.

[Flaneur]

32. Only you and a handful of US reactionary politicians have this problem.

The rest of the world gets it: The US, the OAS, the EU, the UN General Assembly, all of Latin America--all are condemning the coup. What does the Canadian government say?

[Dave From Canada]

55. No, not all of them are condemning the coup. Some are, but are condeming the former President's

unconstitutional actions as well. The Canadian government has also condemned the coup, "but also added that it was important to take into account the context in which the military overthrew Zelaya, particularly whether he had violated the Constitution." I tend to agree. This isn't a black and white issue.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

69. So is it a coup or not. Which is it? So far the only people justifying this that I can see

are right wingers in the US which has been documented here and apparently your right wing PM.

[EFerrari]

70. The way the golpistas are describing it is almost word for word as Dave does.

Oh, and calling the coup a coup can get you arrested in this more "democratic" Honduras.

[Judi Lynn]

101. Here are images of the people of Honduras enjoying their new "democratic" Honduras:

It will be necessary to click on the links, since I can't get the images themselves to post on this page:

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/news/world/gallery+honduras/1762228/1762325.bin?size=620x400

Supporters of ousted Honduras' President Manuel Zelaya lie as soldiers fire tear gas at a protest at the international airport in Tegucigalpa July 5, 2009. At least one person was killed and two were badly wounded in Honduras on Sunday when protesters demanding the return of ousted President Manuel Zelaya clashed with troops at the main airport in the capital, a medical worker and emergency services at the scene told Reuters.
Photograph by: REUTERS/Benedicte Dsrus ,

http://a123.g.akamai.net.nyud.net:8090/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/news/world/gallery+honduras/1762228/1762377.bin?size=620x400

Supporters of ousted Honduras' President Manuel Zelaya try to climb a wall to enter inside Toncontin international airport in Tegucigalpa July 5,2009. Zelaya turned back from an attempted return home on Sunday after soldiers clashed with his supporters as he tried to land, fueling tensions over the coup that toppled him.

http://a123.g.akamai.net.nyud.net:8090/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/news/world/gallery+honduras/1762228/1762323.bin?size=620x400

A supporter of ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya reacts after a battle between soldiers and protesters outside the Toncontin international airport in Tegucigalpa July 5, 2009. At least one person was killed and two were badly wounded in Honduras on Sunday when protesters demanding the return of Zelaya clashed with troops at the main airport in the capital, a medical worker and emergency services at the scene told Reuters.
Photograph by: REUTERS/Tomas Bravo

http://a123.g.akamai.net.nyud.net:8090/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/news/world/gallery+honduras/1762228/1762328.bin?size=620x400

Supporters of ousted Honduran President Manuel Zelaya make the "V" sign as his plane overflies Toncontin international airport in Tegucigalpa on July 5, 2009. At least half a dozen military vehicles blocked the only runway at the airport in Tegucigalpa, while tens of thousands of Zelaya's supporters demonstrated outside.
Photograph by: (ELMER MARTINEZ/AFP/Getty Images)

http://a123.g.akamai.net.nyud.net:8090/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/news/world/gallery+honduras/1762228/1762322.bin?size=620x400

A supporter, wearing a shirt covered in blood, of ousted Honduras' President Manuel Zelaya talks to supporters after soldiers fired tear gas at the protest at the international airport in Tegucigalpa July 5, 2009. Zelaya turned back from an attempted return home on Sunday after soldiers clashed with his supporters as he tried to land, fueling tensions over the coup that toppled him.
Photograph by: REUTERS/Henry Romero

http://a123.g.akamai.net.nyud.net:8090/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/news/world/gallery+honduras/1762228/1762217.bin?size=620x400

Supporters of Honduras' ousted President Manuel Zelaya stand in front of riot police and soldiers outside Toncontin international airport in Tegucigalpa July 5, 2009. Zelaya departed on a flight for his country on Sunday, but the interim government that has defied international pressure over last week's coup.
Photograph by: REUTERS/Tomas Bravo

http://a123.g.akamai.net.nyud.net:8090/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/news/world/gallery+honduras/1762228/1762218.bin?size=620x400

A sniper of the Honduran Army keeps watch from a roof of Tegucigalpa's international airport Toncontin, after it was militarized and all flights suspended on July 5, 2009. Ousted President Manuel Zelaya reaffirmed his intention to return to Honduras on Sunday, despite a threat by the interim government that
Photograph by: (ORLANDO SIERRA/AFP/Getty Images)

http://a123.g.akamai.net.nyud.net:8090/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/news/world/gallery+honduras/1762228/1762219.bin?size=620x400

Supporters of Honduran President Manuel Zelaya carry the dead body of a man after he was shot by Honduran soldiers outside Toncontin international airport in Tegucigalpa on July 5, 2009. Ousted President Manuel Zelaya reaffirmed his intention to return to Honduras on Sunday, despite a threat by the interim
Photograph by: (Jose CABEZAS/AFP/Getty Images)

http://a123.g.akamai.net.nyud.net:8090/f/123/12465/1d/www.canada.com/news/world/gallery+honduras/1762228/1762221.bin?size=620x400

Supporters of ousted Honduran President, Manuel Zelaya, clash with soldiers during a protest against the military coup near Toncontin international airport in Tegucigalpa on July 5, 2009. Ousted President Manuel Zelaya reaffirmed his intention to return to Honduras on Sunday, despite a threat by the interim
Photograph by: (ELMER MARTINEZ/AFP/Getty Images)

[EFerrari]

108. The military we spend millions of dollars on every year.

Horrific.

[L. Coyote]

41. Have you been watching Faux News?

Not selling oil to a right-wing military junta is minding one's own politics!

[Dave From Canada]

50. Nope. Listening to Zbigniew Brezinski.

[L. Coyote]

74. "a non-binding poll ... for a democratic review of the constitution."

"The act that ostensibly saw Zelaya removed by the military was a proposal that the public vote in a non-binding poll to see if there was popular support for a democratic review of the constitution."

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/features/behind_the_honduran_coup

[ProudDad]

113. Oh, great. The architect of borrowing from the rich to build the war machine

Great source :sarcasm:

[Grinchie]

83. How do you know? All you know is what the media has told you.

And you believe it lock stock and barrel.

If he was so awful, why is their marshall law and people getting shot at?

Why is it that as support for the Coup fizzles, they withdraw from the oecd or whatever it is?

The truth is, there is more to meat the eye here, and the only way you can support it is by spoonfeeding the mass media hype.

I would tend to think that Chavez would be in a better position to understand the situation virtually next door, so I commend him for acting.

[IndianaGreen]

105. Is that you, John McCain?

The endless lies from the rightwing!

:puke:

[jasi2006]

109. Everytime we want to "amend" the Consitution we are re-writing it.

The change to the Honduran constitution was to be by referendum, I think. In any case, whatever change took place would not have been by one man. And yeah, the good ole, USA was started with an occupation and then a coup.

[Mudoria]

30. They should have let Zelaya return and then impeached him..

same result but the PR is better.

[David__77]

31. Seal the border with Honduras. Make trade difficult.

Freeze Honduran coup assets.

[EFerrari]

33. I think the borders have been sealed -- sometime last week. n/t

[L. Coyote]

43. The border with Honduras is already sealed by the surrounding countries

according to a news report I saw, complete with a picture of a truck drivers slung out in a hammock under an 18-wheelers.

[David__77]

64. Good. Close airspace too.

That would be the next space. Honduras should be completely isolated until Zelaya is returned to the president's office.

[roberto]

34. US is not acting as they should .... they must not take the lead in this. Not good at all.

In fact, the new dictators in Honduras, since the US through clinton took the leadership, have already won.

No one should discuss or argue with these (political and economic and bad example for the whole South America) Ants, but some are... and some are taking again the lead in central-south american politics...

The OEA, in fact the whole central and south america did decide not to argue with them, in order to suffocate them, and force them to resign and give Zelaya (whatever its political point of view, whatever its intelligence, whatever its leadership, its connections etc etc etc etc) its power back. And this has nothing to do with OEA connected with Hugo Chavez, since in south america, a lot fear is great open mouth. So the OEA president, who's a chilean, and where Hugo Chavez is not appreciated, was not thrying to push Honduras on the Chavez influence ... Not at all.

The same way, No one want the old US politics to come back again.. Given the past US politics in south america and all these coups, whatever the initiative coming from the US is seen as something suspicious ... The clintons are playing with acdc now ...

But the clinton decided to do so ... This is dangerous, since it is giving a very bad impression to south american governments ... It looks alike, a very good speech but followed by nothing. It looks alike Obama is just playing with words ... it looks alike Obama(Biden/Clinton is just a Trojan horse. Just a Trojan horse before the economics stay tunned again... A trojan horse ... alike with israel ... just words ... They are just a Trojan horse...

[bitchkitty]

35. I might need more coffee.

But your post made absolutely no sense to me. Unless the United States has decided to finally man up and recall Llorens? Did I miss something?

In any case, VIVA HUGO!!!!!

[Grinchie]

86. Actually, you make a lot of good points.

Historically, Clinton continued the same political games with Central America as Bush did, who as we know, invaded and deposed Norieaga in Panama at that time.

Furthermore, Clinton continued the insanse funding of Herbicide spraying in Columbia, and financed the Columbian militaryy consistently.

The immediate attempts by the Bush Administration to depose Chavez was thwarted by lack of planning and clear thought. They imagined that the population would roll over like Americans did when Bush stole the election.

So, Bush put the effort of Chavez on hold while he fed the Military Machine more pork than it ever could have hoped for, and did it by printing money like it was going out of style.

Now, the Obama "Change we can believe in" is nothing more that a rehash of the Clinton Back Office. We see that same old interferance and manipulation occurring in South America, and frankly it is making me sick to my stomach. The PR campaign of Obama's Faux concern is so transparent, I'm shocked that more people aren't waking up to the fact that they've been had once again, voting for a masthead that does nothing but deflect foreign policy away from the rotten core.

The fact that the Clintons are involved with foreign policy should be enough evidence that it's business as usual, full speed ahead.

[troubledamerican]

104. Another way to verbalize what you're saying is

It appears that when Bush/Cheney is in office, they're the "Bad Cop" and when Obama/Clinton is in office, they're the "Good Cop" -- but the Bad Cop is the leader, the Good Cop is subordinate to the Bad Cop.

And if the U.S. is just playing "Good Cop/Bad Cop" with the world, then the U.S. has zero credibility or authenticity.

I believe that Putin/Russia/Medvedev has already come to this conclusion.

I dread Latin America coming to this conclusion, but I couldn't blame them for doing so.

I don't believe that Obama is playing this game, but he must understand the consequences for perception trumping reality.

And so I urge Latin America to brace themselves. Because the next Neocon administration -- an inevitability -- will launch military strikes on Latin American nations for bullshit fabricated reasons. The U.S. is not to be trusted. The current display of "Good Cop" inaction must be read at face value by those Latin nations most vulnerable to the Bad Cop's promises.

[Vidar]

42. Viva Chavez!

[L. Coyote]

44. Behind the Honduran Coup

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/features/behind_the_honduran_coup
Tuesday 07 July 2009
Steve Mather


Pressure is mounting on the leaders of the coup d'etat in Honduras. The reactionary ruling elite's attempt to prevent progressive politics taking root in one of the poorest countries in the world is starting to look isolated.

The United Nations and the Organisation of American States - hardly radical institutions - have said in no uncertain terms that coup leader Roberto Micheletti and his amigos in the armed forces cannot be allowed to remain in power.

The US seems to have grudgingly come to the same conclusion and even the World Bank has decided to suspend aid to Honduras while the coup leaders remain in power. When the forces of imperialism themselves turn against you, it's time to get worried.

The irony is that exiled President Manuel Zelaya and Micheletti are former allies and members of the same party.

Zelaya is no peasant, nor is he a prole. He is a fully paid-up member of the ruling class. ...............

[redqueen]

48. Good point about the forces of imperialism.

I don't remember that happening during the coup against Chavez... I seem to recall that was just sort of ignored, after a brief period of unquestioning acceptance of the legitimacy of the coup plotters.

[L. Coyote]

73. Zelaya raised the national minimum wage by 60 per cent.

This may be why he has been overthrown, but I suspect Narco businessmen.

[EFerrari]

89. He was doing too much for people and he went to ALBA instead of

to the IMF vultures. I'm surprised he's still alive.

[L. Coyote]

110. I'm surprised there is such silence about Narco-corruption in Latin America

Well, not really surprised.

I suppose those who bring up the topic get disappeared.
That, or they commit suicide by two gunshots to the head.

[JVS]

45. I wonder if Cuba and Venezuela could send in troops.

[timeforpeace]

47. Oil is the ultimate fungible commodity.

[Zorra]

54. Heh. That's some serious leverage. The "Oil for Presidents" program. nt

[EFerrari]

67. LOL! Nice one.

:)

[Judi Lynn]

72. Lula mentions the coup in speech, accepting UNESCO award.

Thursday, 9 July 2009
UNESCO Prize to Brazil leader

France: Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva was awarded the Felix Houphount-Boigny Peace Prize, by UNESCO, an occasion in which he described armed conflicts as an affront to human rationality.

Justifying aggression as a preventive measure is unacceptable, as it is also inadmissible to solve differences among civilizations with conflict, the leader said in his speech.

Lula gave thanks and said he shared this prize with women and men who devoted their lives to peace.

The South American leader stressed the fact that Latin America is living a whole new vigorous moment of democracy that had its origin in past and historic segments that demand a more solidarious society.

We can no longer accept backward steps, reason why we fiercely condemn the coup in Honduras, he stressed.

UNESCO Director General Koichiro Matsuura; Senegal President Abdoulaye Wade and Portuguese Prime Minister Jose Socrates attended the award ceremony.

http://www.dailynews.lk/2009/07/09/wld08.asp

(My emphasis)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x18392

[Grinchie]

76. Is it any wonder why the Oligarchs hate Chavez so much, no matter what country they are from?

It pretty clear that an Enemy of Bush is a bonafide socialist.

We need more people like Chavez to stand up to the Corporations and demand that they share the equity they drain from the countries they prey upon.

I may not agree 100% with Chavez or his methods, but I admire the intent, especially with the huge amounts of anti Chavez reaources that were apllied by the U.S. against him in 2001-2002.

The simplicity of his embargoe against Honduras is gold, and says a lot more than the feeble token effort by Obama. Which was, as I recall, "We won't support you militarily". Yeah, that's gotta really hurt, as they shoot into the crowds of unarmed people waiting for Zelaya to land.

We do not have a democratic administration. It is nothing more that the Military Industrial complex with a new CEO. Nothing has changed.

[EFerrari]

78. Obama's response to this attack on the people of Honduras

is not something I can be proud of.

[bemildred]

84. I think he has done OK.

He's been kind of laid back. For the US in Latin America, that is good. I think there is good reason to think that the other Latin American nations can deal with these weasels, with US support in the background, and that seems to me a better, longer-lasting solution than sending in the Marines. But the outcome remains in doubt, I admit freely. The US could be more vigorous I admit. But then Obama has to deal with the corrupt, self-interested weasels in Congress, and until we give him a better Congress, he has to be mindful. It's clear enough to me that Obama does not support the coup.

[Grinchie]

87. Yeah, wouldn't want to harm NAFTA /CAFTA in any way would we?

Hilary might angry, and the Clinton's investments in companies that make a killing using slave labor in South America may be diminished by a fraction of a percent.

[EFerrari]

88. Asking Zelaya to "negotiate" with these criminals is basically an insult

to the people of Honduras.

We aren't really laying back in Honduras as we have been funneling millions of NED dollars to the right wing.

Between that and our aid to the Honduran military, we might as well have kidnapped Zelaya ourselves.

You're right about Congress, though. And add to that, similar levels of corruption at State and at the Pentagon.

[bemildred]

92. Politics is not, in my observation, an elevated process.

Just because you elect a President, that doesn't mean the whole US government falls into line. I found that out with Jimmy Carter. it's going to be a long fight.

[EFerrari]

94. Agreed. Turns out Obama is not the Wizard of OZ!

lol

But I'm still pissed at the cold warriors / vampires still all over our government. We're going to go through a bunch of trash bags before we clean up this mess.

[bemildred]

96. Yah. nt

[EFerrari]

107. Check it out: National Lawyers Guild call for action:

National Lawyers Guild Calls for Action on Honduras
Submitted by david swanson on Thu, 2009-07-09 00:23. South America

The National Lawyers Guild calls for concrete action in response to the military coup perpetrated against the democratically-elected government of President Manuel Zelaya of Honduras which included the kidnapping and expulsion of President Zelaya and his Foreign Minister, Patricia Rodas, the detention the Cuban, Venezuelan and Nicaraguan ambassadors, blackout of international media, the suspension of constitutional rights of assembly and expression, and the detentions, assassinations and attacks on members of civil society and trade unions who support the restoration of democracy in Honduras.

We appreciate the strong statements coming from President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton condemning the coup and recognizing President Zelaya as the duly elected and legitimate president of Honduras and we now call on the Obama administration to halt all foreign aid and military assistance until President Zelaya is unconditionally reinstated and democracy is restored in Honduras.

Given the extensive U.S. training and U.S. funding of the very individuals and military operatives responsible for the coup, we call on the Obama Administration to cease all military activities and funding for Honduras. We urge the administration and to comply with Section 7008 of the annual foreign operations appropriations act and immediately suspend aid to the government of Honduras until President Zelaya's unconditional return to office has been secured, all prisoners taken during the coup have been released, and anyone installed in office since the coup has been removed from office. We oppose any negotiations with the coup perpetrators that would result in placing any conditions upon the reinstatement of President Zelaya.

We also call on the US State Department to comply now and in the future with United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2626 (XXV) (1970) by respecting sovereign rights in its dispersal of foreign aid and to cease funding the so-called "pro-democracy" civil groups that have supported this coup. We also urge the State Department to join the many other countries that have withdrawn their ambassadors from Honduras pending restoration of President Zelaya's presidency.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x18419

[scarletwoman]

99. That really bugs the hell out of me. Why should the victim of an illegal act be expected

to "negotiate" with the perpetrators? "Insult" is really rather a mild word for such an outrageous situation.

The coupsters are criminals who acted in a completely unlawful manner. They should be subject to arrest and trial, not "negotiations"!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

85. I approve of this. Good move. -nt

[ohio2007]

91. It only hurts the poor

[Judi Lynn]

93. Get in touch with the facts regarding the deal Zelaya made with Venezuela for the oil,

and try to summon the skill needed to see why it would be impossible to continue that arrangement forged by Zelaya with an illegal government which violently removed him, which also, incredibly is accusing Venezuela of preparing to invade them.

[EFerrari]

95. Human rights activists in Honduras are behind these measures. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

106. The poor don't drive Beemers!

It hurts the elites.

[New Dawn]

97. K&R

[Judi Lynn]

98. National Lawyers Guild Calls for Action on Honduras

National Lawyers Guild Calls for Action on Honduras
Submitted by david swanson on Thu, 2009-07-09 00:23. South America

The National Lawyers Guild calls for concrete action in response to the military coup perpetrated against the democratically-elected government of President Manuel Zelaya of Honduras which included the kidnapping and expulsion of President Zelaya and his Foreign Minister, Patricia Rodas, the detention the Cuban, Venezuelan and Nicaraguan ambassadors, blackout of international media, the suspension of constitutional rights of assembly and expression, and the detentions, assassinations and attacks on members of civil society and trade unions who support the restoration of democracy in Honduras.

We appreciate the strong statements coming from President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton condemning the coup and recognizing President Zelaya as the duly elected and legitimate president of Honduras and we now call on the Obama administration to halt all foreign aid and military assistance until President Zelaya is unconditionally reinstated and democracy is restored in Honduras.

Given the extensive U.S. training and U.S. funding of the very individuals and military operatives responsible for the coup, we call on the Obama Administration to cease all military activities and funding for Honduras. We urge the administration and to comply with Section 7008 of the annual foreign operations appropriations act and immediately suspend aid to the government of Honduras until President Zelaya's unconditional return to office has been secured, all prisoners taken during the coup have been released, and anyone installed in office since the coup has been removed from office. We oppose any negotiations with the coup perpetrators that would result in placing any conditions upon the reinstatement of President Zelaya.

We also call on the US State Department to comply now and in the future with United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2626 (XXV)
(1970) by respecting sovereign rights in its dispersal of foreign aid and to cease funding the so-called "pro-democracy" civil groups that have supported this coup. We also urge the State Department to join the many other countries that have withdrawn their ambassadors from Honduras pending restoration of President Zelaya's presidency.

We applaud the solidarity with which the world's governments and the multilateral institutions of the United Nations and the Organization of American States have responded to defend democracy in Honduras, and the courage of those leaders who are offering to accompany President Zelaya on his return to Honduras. We welcome the decision of the OAS and its Secretary General to invoke the provisions of the Inter-American Democratic Charter relative to an unconstitutional interruption and alteration of the democratic order, including Article 19 of the Inter-American Democractic Charter, which states that such an interruption constitutes an "insurmountable obstacle" to the government's participation in OAS activities; and Article 21, which calls for a vote of suspension of the member state until democracy is restored. We support the decision of the OAS, pursuant to Article 20, to undertake the necessary diplomatic initiatives to further the restoration of democracy in Honduras.

We also express our solidarity with and support for the Honduran people and the social organizations and unions who are peacefully
seeking a non-binding referendum on the question of constitutional reform to further democracy in their country. We recognize that the prohibition on constitutional reform written into the 1982 constitution itself negates the power of the people of Honduras to
determine their own system of governance. We call on all authorities to guarantee and respect the physical integrity and freedom of speech and association of those who are working for democratic constitutional reform in Honduras.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/44341

[femrap]

100. K and R

I feel the Earth's axis turning ever so slightly....just wait until 2012!

The dude knows how to play the game, doesn't he?

Hi Coyote!

[donheld]

102. This rocks