Toyota May Dissolve California Plant Venture Abandoned by GM

[Omaha Steve]

Source: Bloomberg

By Naoko Fujimura and Tetsuya Komatsu

July 11 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp., the world’s largest automaker, may close New United Motor Manufacturing Inc., the California venture abandoned by General Motors Co., as its U.S. sales slump amid the recession.

“We’re considering various options on the plant including whether it’s economically feasible to build cars alone without GM,” the company said in a statement released yesterday. “We regrettably must seriously consider dissolving the venture under the current business environment.”

Toyota’s response came after GM emerged from bankruptcy to become majority-owned by the U.S. government. The Toyota City, Japan-based automaker aims to decide by the end of July whether to become sole operator of New United Motor, also known as Nummi, after GM quit the venture June 29, a person familiar with the plan said earlier this month.




Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=ay2RIu_K3uY4

---

Photo with full story at link.

[CatholicEdHead]

1. No! Don't do it! Rebadge the Vibe as a Chevy!

[bigworld]

37. The Vibe is a fantastic, practical, economical car

that GM never really pushed as it could have.

[Grinchie]

2. Save yourselves Toyota. Bail while you can.

America is run by a bunch of criminals who don't know any other way.

And Americans are too stupid to put a stop to it.

[mackerel]

3. That will put even more people out of work

here in the Bay Area.

[Codeine]

4. And some are so stupid

as to cheer on the further destruction of organized labor in America.

[Deja Q]

9. They can go F themselves.

[Grinchie]

12. It's not about Toyota coming to the rescue...

It's about a business unwilling to work within the fraudulent system in place and saving it's own skin while it can.

Maybe Tesla Motors could take over? Ask them, but if I was in charge, I'd get the hell out until I saw so progress in the Economy that wasn't screaming full scale revolt of the peons.

Perhaps you don't notice the Millions of square feet of empty space in Oakland, Union City and Fremont area. Toyota is a smart company, they'll do what they need to do.

[Deja Q]

11. So why haven't you stopped them, you stupid American you?

:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:


Whether or not my response to you is :sarcasm:, I'll let you decide. I still don't have a clue either, except your post is full of so many obtuse absurdities it's beyond belief.

[Grinchie]

14. Thats right, all we can do is make more cars in America.

Better yet, get a foreign company to do it, Because GM was too stupid making Hummers instead of EV 1's. Fuck GM.

Meanwhile, we have a huge plants that manufactures innovative solar panels that are immediately shipped to Germany, and we don't see shit.

You are obviously charged with emotion about a job loss, or GM, or some other issue. Take my advice and get rid of the emotion and think like the owner of a small business and run the numbers, examine the business environment, and open your mind. You'll most likely find that you'd be saying the same thing as Toyota.

[blue_onyx]

20. The new GM which just came out of bankruptcy

doesn't even own Hummer. BTW, Toyota makes gas guzzlers like the Sequoia which only get 15 MPG, pretty much the same as the Hummer H3 (14).

[divideandconquer]

27. Toyota's full size truck has worse gas mileage than Chevy and Dodge

Don't take my word for it, check out the EPA website. Toyota truck gas mileage sucks big time even worse than a Dodge HEMI! 18 hwy vs 20 for Chevy and Dodge.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm

[Grinchie]

39. I know, they are pretty useless

I'm sure they are quality built, but not for me by a long shot.

I would much rather buy a clunker that someone is trying to get rid of, and convert it to a Pogue Carburetor or a GEET. We certainly aren't going to see that from Toyota or the "New" GM anytime soon.

Unlike most people, I actually like to be able to fix them myself without having to by specialized tools for a once in 10 year repair. My grandfather was a mechanic, and I am the only mechanic and aerospace machinist in the family. I like machines, especially honorable ones, and the machines of today are purposefully complex, sonsidering this technology has been around for nearly one hundred years. Ask yourself why we need a hundred different varieties of alternators, or regulator that are designed to destoy lead acid batteries in 2 to 3 years. Ask yourself why we use expensive catalytic converters when a higher combustion efficiency would perform the same job, and use a great deal less fuel? Instead, we use a catalytic converter that demands excess unburnt fuel to operate efficiently and run at a propery temperature.

No, the Auto Industry took the lead of planned obsolescence from GM, and that plague has spread to Computers, Software, Power tools, Television sets, etc, etc, etc. Just walk through any pick and pull junk yard and count how many different ways they contrived to distribute the coil, or route the timing chain. It's all useless redesign, and nobody questioned it, ever, except the mechanics who found the had to loosen the motor mounts to change an oil filter, or remove a front wheel to change and alternator, or pull the entire gas tank to replace a Fuel pump, pressure regulator, fuel gauge sending unit device which is allocated 4 hours in the damn shop manual! Jeezus!

http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/04/pogue_carburetor_gasoline_vapo.html

You guys seem to think you are talking to a novice, but I've got good reason to loathe GM and all the damage it has done while basking in the favored shadow of Government subsidies and market manipulation.

[blue_onyx]

44. No, I'm not assuming you're a novice

I'm just calling you on your hypocritical bullshit.

[Grinchie]

48. You going to back that up with points that point it out, or are you just going to hit and run?

Your move.

[blue_onyx]

50. LOL

Hit and run? Yeah, I've been posting multiple replies and that's "hit and run."

You said "Because GM was too stupid making Hummers instead of EV 1's." You also praised Toyota as a good company that should "save themselves" since "America is run by a bunch of criminals who don't know any other way." And yet you are willing to overlook that fact Toyota also makes gas guzzlers (like Hummer), that Toyota doesn't sell an all electric vehicle, and also destroyed the RAV4 EV (like GM did with the EV1). Criticizing one company for things you feel are wrong while praising another company which did the same things is hypocritical.

[Grinchie]

53. All those are true statements, except that I am not aware the RAV4 was destroyed before delivery

I believe that the economic system we have is a Ponzi scheme that is in collapse and systemic failure. So?

I serious doubt that a full size pickup in in the same class as a Hummer, but to be honest, I don't really care.

You forgot to mention Ford, which also destroyed many of the Electric Ranger pickups, but I believe that one was spared intact.

You keep framing this is such a way to suggest that I am unfair to GM and it's complete destruction of the EV-1, and that it was up to Enthusiats to rewire the destroyed wiring harnesses, cannibalize parts from other holders of disabled EV-1's, and are still not complete in the restoration of an EV-1 in it factory stock condition.

I said, why can't GM produce one, intact, EV-1 from a vault or even an internal collector withing the Corporate structure of GM?

I'm pretty sure that the duyers of the Electric Ford Pickup and the Toyota RAV4 did not take possession of a purposefully sabotoged vehicle.

This is as clear as I'm going to make it for you. If you attempt to spin this into some attack it will be pretty obvious that you are irrationally fighting against a mindmill.

[WriteDown]

23. Idiotic statement...

Urban legends don't fly here.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/karl/2006/06/gms-ev1----who-killed-common-sense.html

[Grinchie]

41. Then why are you posting a link that is full of them?

Perhaps watching the Movie Who Killed the Electric Car would actually open your eyes to the fraud that is the link you posted. It's a damage control bucket of Hog slop.

Item 2 is most humorous, because Who Killed the Electric Car actually shows the decision that got GM off the hook.

Ahh yes, the promise of Hydrogen fuel cells... Dreamy. Too bad they never intended to do it, but at least it got them off the hook.

[WriteDown]

42. I've seen the movie multiple times.....

Maybe you should try responding to the actual points made and not trying to hit your talking points with every post.

[Grinchie]

45. Such as?

Clarify what you mean by "Hit my talking points with every post". What exactly do you mean by this in english please.

Please continue, the more you attack, the easier it will be for others to determine your veracity, honesty and ethical foundation.

[WriteDown]

59. You don't seem to comprehend others posts very well...

If you want to respond to the salient points of the edmunds article as well as THE WEBSITES OF EV1 OWNERS, by all means go right ahead. If you want to spread your meme that GM=BAD, TOYOTA=GOOD, then please explain how.

[WriteDown]

21. Yeah, not like corporate Japan....

:eyes:

[fujiyama]

5. This would be very unfortunate

They have produced some good vehicles at NUMMI, including the Vibe, the Prism, and the Corolla. This would also mean a few thousand good jobs in the Bay Area. I was hearing rumors about the Prius (or a re-badged GM version) possibly built there, but it would be a huge investment (the kind Toyota obviously is hesitant about making in the current environment in a joint venture with a company whose own future viability is still much in doubt) and there are probably various concerns about intellectual property. If anything, Toyota and other Japanese companies are incredibly paranoid - or cautious as some would prefer calling it.

[Deja Q]

13. I must have been unlucky; my 95 Corolla was a piece of junk.

Oil leaking by 70k miles, transmission fluid by 90k.

Oh, the oil started leaking around 2003. When the tranny started to go, it was 2005. It was not abused and clearly had few miles on it for being a 8 then 10 year old car.

[Grinchie]

16. They are wise to be cautious

While I could see a benefit in the huge masses of cheap labor that will soon appear with the third wave of forclosures that is coming, one has to be concerned about social stability.

I don't see America weathering these first few drops in a rational manner. In fact, I see a lot of panic and irrationality surfacing lately. I think the masses of people are finally seeing that the stimulus bill is primarily a tax cut and not a jobs programs, and that has a lot of people, including economists spooked. Especially those that have lost there jobs, or have been hit by the Credit Card companies who have increased their minimum payments by 270% in some cases.

Obama has not addressed the issue of Trust in the banking system, and it looks like he won't in any meaningful way this year.

Geithner is very evasive, and is unable to answer questions truthfully, if at all, so nobody believes his statements that "we've turn the corner".

It's a lot of warm fuzzy puppy talk, and if I were Toyota I'd bail.

Some people brand me a monster for saying that, somehow equating reality with wishing the Union's ill, but that's their issue. As far as I know, the Unions didn't run the country into the ground, bush and the Federal Reserve did.

[Pharlo]

22. My last car was a 1998 Prius.

Wonderful vehicle. Got it used at 35,000 miles. Got great gas mileage, replaced the alternator twice, battery once. Other than that, it was basic oil changes, brakes and tires. It died on me in February with 297,000 miles. Man, how I wish they still made them, but they don't. I replaced it with a 2002 Chevy Cavalier. Good car, but not the Prius.

I guess, if a car is made too good, they have to stop manufacturing them because people won't need to replace them frequently enough. Apparently, the Vibe is going the way of the Prius. Too bad, really.

[Grinchie]

29. I hope they don't use that philosophy when they start building Nuclear Power plants.

Because they really haven't decommissioned on fully yet.

[Puppyjive]

6. GM still doesn't get it

This is what I just don't get. The Pontiac Vibe is one of GM's best fuel rated vehicles. It looks good, reasonably priced and has a Toyota engine, so you know it's probably reliable. But GM has to pull the plug. They want to sell more Buick Enclaves for $44,000 or GM Acadia's for $40,000. When is this company going to get the fact that their product is priced out of sight for the average consumer?

[tabasco]

8. No, it's all the customers' fault.

If not enough people buy the new Camaro, it will be because of America-hating customers and the evil media.

:sarcasm:

Just what people want during a time of economic depression, unemployment and high gas prices ----- a sports car!!

[okieinpain]

66. BINGO!!!

[Deja Q]

10. Because average consumers are nothing and they cater only to their class?

:tinfoilhat:

Yeah, it is enough tinfoil to roast a metric tonne of jiffy pop brand popcorn, but it's still fun to say. :D

[blue_onyx]

15. Maybe you don't get it

"The Pontiac Vibe is one of GM's best fuel rated vehicles"

GM has other vehicles that get good MPG like the Cobalt (27) and the Malibu (26). They have the Chevy Cruz coming out soon which will get at least 40 on the highway, as well as a new subcompact, the Chevy Spark.



"They want to sell more Buick Enclaves for $44,000 or GM Acadia's for $40,000"

Actually, the Enclave starts at 35,070 and the Arcadia starts at 31,890.


"When is this company going to get the fact that their product is priced out of sight for the average consumer?"

GM offers a wide variety of products. The Enclave/Arcadia do fit the needs and budgets of many consumers. Just because they may be too expensive for some people, GM shouldn't offer these crossovers at all?

[Grinchie]

17. Maybe they could produce one intact EV-1 Their name wouldn't be synonamous with crap

Just one, fully intact, with all original parts.

Doesn't anyone else here think it is odd that we have Seagoing Trucks built by GMC for World War II, intact, stock and fully operational and used daily across the country, while the EV-1, a vehicle mandated by the CARB and loved by everyone that drove it, was destroyed so completely that not one, fully intact, original equipment, operating model exists?

WTF is wrong with that picture?

[blue_onyx]

19. Their name isn't "synonamous with crap"

except to GM haters/Toyota worshipers like you.

[Grinchie]

51. GM Haters/Toyota worshippers... Man thats rich.

The only thing I worship are the raw materials I can scavenge for my Forge. All cars supply that with ease.

Car are Cars, doesn't matter to me as long as they run well, start in three cranks or less, every time, have brakes that are easy to replace, and aren't so fancy that you can't drive it down a narrow road with bushes on each side, or tall grass on the crown.

I like my cars stock as the showroom floor unless there is a defect that I find in real world operation, and only then will I modify. Tuner cars and the culture that promotes that kind of shit disgusts me.

The EV-1 was groundbreaking, for the 1990's, but electric cars were the first to set the land speed record in the early part of the 20th century. Nichola Tesla purportedly had an electric car that operated on electricty transmitted from a central source, using an antenna and a radio type tuner in the dash.

As I said before, there are GMC CCKW trucks from WW2 that still run today, completely stock, with original engines that have only had minor maintenace for the 60 years they have been kept by collectors. They are quiet, get 20 miles per gallon with a load on highway at a top speed of 45 mph, and they can haul 5000 lbs cargo rated, and are capable of 100% overload at a top speed of 25mph. 150% overload at 5mph. This was the beauty of GM in the early years. They made ultra reliable, easy to maintain, functional vehicles that were fun to drive, and felt good on the road.

Unfortunately, they got too big for their britches and decided to corner the market with the Yellow Coach and the Transit Trust, but thats history isn't it?

I see a lot of attacks from you Blue onyx, but I don't see any stories from you based on personal experience on your side. Are you a gas bag?

[blue_onyx]

52. A gas bag?

Looks like you are the one throwing around attacks.

Personal experiences with cars is what you want? I've owned one car so far...a hand-me-down Buick Regal that has 150,000 miles one it. It's been a good car. My parents and grandparents have all owned GMs (mostly Buick and Oldsmobile) and have had good experiences with all of them.

[Grinchie]

54. OMG, no wonder your pissed.

Many many years ago I was the Parts driver for a GM dealership.

My condolences go out to you for having to drive that car. You're lucky to be alive. I'm not kidding.

[blue_onyx]

57. It's been a very good vehicle

I don't have to drive it. I've been perfectly happy with it and would consider buying a new Buick.

Continue to play this "insider knowledge" card to try and make yourself look more informed (which, based on your previous responses, isn't working).

[WriteDown]

24. Bull hockey.....

Once again, a poor urban legend at best.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/karl/2006/06/gms-ev1----who-killed-common-sense.html

[Grinchie]

25. I guess so, that's why even GM can't produce one EV-1 that they kept in the private collection...

I guess the Corporate PR Machine never gives up easily, or without a thousand positive voices to shore up the failed company.

Thats right, America is too stupid to be trusted with the electric car.. Yep, thats it.

You guys truly are as pitiful as the freeptards sometimes.

Feel free to gobble up your GM approved talking points, but for your pleasure, feel free to view the source of my information.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewg8yawjn-M

If it were not for the dedication of this gentlemen, we probaly wouldn't have one of these vehicles that runs. Notice that the BTCM is not present, so even this one EV-1 is not complete, and not stock.

GM really screwed up on the EV-1, and no amount of spin will change history, but I see that most of the Cheerleaders are willing to give it a try. Haven't you guys learned about the existance of YouTube and the Internets yet?

"Once again, a poor urban legend at best" :nopity:

-- Priceless

There are some things money can't buy,
For all the rest, use FailCard.

[WriteDown]

26. Luckily, you know the "real" story right?

:rofl:

Edmunds is GM approved? Seriously? Considering they regularly rank Japanese manufacturers ahead of domestic manufacturers that seems odd. I guess GM approves propaganda against themselves to make it look like Edmunds isn't in their corner, right? :rofl:.

I also like how the Edmunds editor went through each issue point by point and even went to the trouble of linking to websites of EV-1 owners. He truly is nefarious! :eyes:

[Grinchie]

28. I guess if you are unable to view YouTube videos, you will be in the dark

I can't help you if you can't see the spin of a PR campaign disguised as the infallible Edumunds, whoever the heck that is.

When you review the video, it speaks for yourself, but you really are not interested in factual comment are you?

[WriteDown]

30. So some research and get back to me...

Edmunds is only one of the most trusted names in cars. I have a feeling you wouldn't know a mopar from a Daimler.

[Grinchie]

33. How about a Willys from a Ford

You really should quit now. To base your flame war on Edmunds.com which is obviously a front for the Auto industry is pretty funny. I'm curious how many cars Edmunds has been trusted in?

So, you think that the Edmunds web site operates on goodwill and free electrons from the cloud, or do you surmise that it may be driven by advertisements from the auto industry, as well as discrete donations of money for product placement. You don't for one moment think that the PR divisions of the majoy automobile manufacturers are not fully engaged planting comments for the "Average Working Joe" in order to shape opinion?

Please try and be at least a little bit realistic, and remember that you are on Democratic Underground, and not Topix or Free Republic where unsubstantiated claims are taken at face value by gullible readers looking for a release of anger.

You did not even look at the Youtube link did you?

Don't be a sad little monkey.

[WriteDown]

35. Then why trust any review?

Why trust anything "Who Killed the Electric Car?" said? Odd that it was distibuted by SONY isn't it? I'm sure they weren't doing it to make money or anything.

I guess the websites by EV-1 owners that the Edmunds editor linked to were also on the take too? :rofl:

Its also odd that Toyota did the same thing to the all-electric RAV4, but I guess they were on the GM take too? :rofl:

Does Toyota pay you in yen or dollars? :eyes:

[Grinchie]

43. You emoticons show that you are on the run

You didnt answer my question regarding the rav4, and are obviously trying to skirt the question.

I trust my own mechanical expertise, hand on experience and distrust anything that has to do with Car Salesmen, rabid fanboys, and childish infatuation with a hunk of metal and plastic. It looks like you are so hooked into it that you can't see clearly, and are driven by emotion and not fact.

The sad truth is that you found one of the few damage control pieces for the EV-1 on the net, posted on a known weebsite that promotes the mass marketing and consumption of cars, and you expect me to fall for it, especially after I've done my homework, years ago.

Typical freeper remark accusing me of working for Toyota, jeez, your desperation is oozing out of your neck. I would recomend you staunch the bleeding and take a deep breath, do some research of your own, and come back when your not hyperventilating.

[WriteDown]

60. Once again...

No response to the articles points. Only the meme :eye:.

[blue_onyx]

31. Where is Toyota's all electric vehicle?

Where's the RAV4 EV that they produced to meet California's zero-emisssion standards? Oh wait, Toyota started destroying them as leases ended, just like GM.

"Approximately 1500 all-electric RAV4s were built from 1997 to 2003, which offered a top speed of 80 mph and a range of nearly 100 miles. The full recharge time was 5 hours, and the MSRP at the time was $42,000. Although 1500 RAV4 EVs were built, only about 328 were sold, with the remaining vehicles being destroyed as they came off their leases."

http://www.trucktrend.com/features/news/2009/163_news090424_toyota_rav4_hybrid_suv/index.html


Interesting how you seem to ignore this.

If anyone is a cheerleader it's you. You ignore anything that makes Toyota look bad, such as my comment about Toyota making vehicles with similar gas mileage as the Hummer. Not surprising. I'm sure you'll ignore this comment too....or come back with some BS about how GM is still worse.

[WriteDown]

32. What is so sad....

Is that the solution is so simple. If Americans actually cared about their fellow workers, people would have sought out well-made union manufactured cars, but everyone always seems more focused on saving a penny rather than supporting unions or America's automotive industry.

[Grinchie]

47. I bought my Ford specifically for that reason.

It was a fleet car, and there were thousands of them on the road. I love the 1999 model.

I know it's a great car, because the 20 acre Pick and Pull has only three Taurus' in the whole lot. and they were involved in major accidents hundreds upon hundreds of Toyotas, Hondas, etc.

This is not about caring for fellow workers, it's about functionality and quality. I wanted reliability so I bought a fleet car. Every Corporation had fleets of these things, so I chose to follow in their footsteps, and it did not fail me. Hertz used them for rentals, and I could travel the country and not have to get used to an alien car every week.

Hate to say it, but if you want to save money, you aren't going to do it by bying Toyota or Honda. Maybe in the long run, but initially, they go at a premium.

[rollingrock]

34. I read somewhere

that GM and Toyota were forced to abandon production of their EV vehicles because Chevron and Texaco (which are now merged) held the patents on the NiMH batteries that were being used in these cars.

Fucking oil companies!

[Grinchie]

36. You say that 328 were sold?

And that they ran, stock, and were not disabled?

And no, I think Toyotas are too expensive, and the Tundra is a worthless Full Size wannabe, just as flashy as all the other pimped out Pickup trucks geared toward the urban driver.

We went shopping for Toyotas in 2006, and they were very expensive, too flashy and inappropriate for a tropical climate.

We decided to put a new front end on the Ford Taurus and it has paid for itself since.

For my work trucks, I use a Dodge 1500 long bed. It's running fine at 157,000 miles, and runs like a champ. Got both of them used for 4000 a piece.

I looked at the GMC Trucks and they were pretty sad in 1999, adn I never saw much improvment. They just got more shiny and laden with cup holders.

It always amazes me to see the brand loyalty to GM, and I'm sure that GM carried you through most of your wage earning carrier, but that fact is that they performed a disservice to the country, and they are paying for it now. Unless you were directly responsible for the act of Destroying all working copies of the EV-1, then what do you care. It's a widely known fact, and you can hold your breath till you turn blue in the face and it won't change that fact.

[blue_onyx]

40. Still no chastisement for Toyota destorying RAV4 EVs, huh?

No, actually I've never worked for GM.

If you're irrational enough to think that the destruction of the EV1 is the cause of all GMs problems, then I can't help you. You still act as if Toyota is a moral citizen of the world and GM is a "evil corporation" despite the fact that Toyota did the same thing you are criticizing GM for.

[Grinchie]

46. I asked for clarification, and you answer with something else.

I'll repeat the question.

Did Toyota Cut the Wiring Harnesses of the RAV4 that were sold to end users, or attempt to disable them in any way, similar to the wholesale destruction of the EV-1 that GM performed?

It's a simple question.

[blue_onyx]

49. You were not clear

All you said, "And that they ran, stock, and were not disabled?" which made no sense.

First, they were not sold, they were leased to people, just like the EV1. When the leases ended, Toyota took them back and destroyed them. There was a campagin to stop the destructive and Toyota eventually let some consumers purchase their RAV1 EV.

http://www.allbusiness.com/transportation/motor-vehicle-manufacturing/443759-1.html

[Grinchie]

55. Thank you for making my point.

Ultimately, Toyota sold working models to the people that chose to buy them, whereas, GM Lawyers refused to capitulate and farted in the face of all the people that wanted to purchase the EV-1 and ground them up into tiny bits anyway.

Does that summarize it nice and cleanly enough for you?

That story sure does fit in nice with that Public Relations repair story you posted in Edmunds.com now, doesn't it?

You could have saved yourself a lot of typing if you only had viewed the YouTube video I posted earlier.

[blue_onyx]

58. OMG, are you serious?

So Toyota reluctantly lets some buyers keep their vehicles and that makes it ok? You can't actually believe the BS you're typing.

I didn't post anything from Edmunds.com...what are you talking about?

[Grinchie]

65. Got you confused with Writedown

And yes, because Toyota allowed intact versions of their Electric vehicles exist without disabling them.

If GM could produce just ONE intact EV-1, it have a little more respect for them, but the facts are that they chose to destroy them or disable them. What a tribute to a vehicle that was once called the finest Electric car ever made.

Just grind it the fuck up, we've got Hummers to sell. As I've mentioned before, almost every GM car ever made is alive somewhere in it factory mint condition due to the work of collectors and enthusiasts. The fact that GM decided to destroy this vehicle is Repugnant, and goes against humanity.

Of course, unless you are a supplicant that believed that GM could do no wrong, then there is nothing much to be said for you.

It doesn't matter, GM brought down a mess of bad karma with the EV-1. I said it before, I'll say it again, Fuck GM, and their stupid non-leadership.

[snooper2]

62. "We decided to put a new front end on the Ford Taurus and it has paid for itself since."

You'll be doing that every 30,000 miles :rofl:

bought a $700 97 Taurus with 95,000 for mother in law a while back (w-working A/C :) ). Needed a $900 head job ( exhaust valve in cylinder #1 & #5 leaking). As far as the front end, I replaced the inner&outer tie rod ends, ball joints, sway bar bushings and upper control arm bushings.

I'll be doing that in another 2 years as those cars are notorious for destroying their front ends. Good thing I have a press :)


Oh, and my shitty 99' S-10 with the 4.3 Vortec will still smoke the tires for 30 feet and can haul 1700lbs of stone no problem. 138,000

[Grinchie]

64. Wow, really?

Didn't have to do it until 97,000 miles, and now we have 156,000 on the vehicle. My speedometer must be way way off.

I'm very fortunate to have a fine car it appears.

[tinrobot]

7. Tesla should buy it.

I believe they're still looking for a place to build their new car. What better place than an abandoned car factory?

[Grinchie]

18. I agree

[WriteDown]

38. Yeah, they're gems

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/15/tech/cnettechnews/main5090301.shtml

[Grinchie]

56. I think that they are a little expensive

The decision to make the high end ferrari type model was great to enthrall consumers a few years ago, but as far as I'm concerned, a cheap reliable model would be just fine, and I would buy one immediately. I don't want or car to have a flashy car. All that crap is vanity in my opinion.

We will see what this decision does to Tesla motors, but I wish them well until they can get a workhorse out to the market.

[WriteDown]

61. That isn't the salient part of the article....

The two salient parts are the brief mention of their "financial" problems and their union attitude. A good union is a docile union don't you know?

[Romulox]

63. Toyota's customers don't care if they're car was made in a union shop. Makes sense to shut it down.