Grand Ayatollah Montazeri’s Fatwa (IRAN)

[formercia]

Source: TEHRAN BUREAU


Grand Ayatollah Montazeri’s Fatwa




By MUHAMMAD SAHIMI in Los Angeles | 12 July 2009

In a very important development, Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, the most senior cleric living in Iran, and one of the top two* marja’ taghlid (source of emulation) in Shiite Islam, issued a series of Fatwas, calling the Supreme Leader illegitimate and saying that he was working with the government against religion. Montazeri has called on people to take action against this injustice, even if they have to pay a heavy price for it.

Ayatollah Motazeri, who has long been one of the most outspoken critics of Iran’s hard-liners, issued the Fatwas in response to a letter that Dr. Mohsen Kadivar, a progressive cleric and a former student of his, wrote asking for answers to several pointed questions. (Dr. Kadivar was jailed a few years ago for his outspoken criticism of the hard-liners and now lives in the United States.)

The letter congratulates the Grand Ayatollah on the occasion of last week’s anniversary of the birth of Imam Ali, the Shiites’ first Imam, and a cousin and a son-in-law of the Prophet Mohammad. The letter says that the anniversary has fallen at a time when peaceful protests against rigged elections have been met by injustice by the government, which has resulted in tens of deaths, hundreds of injured, and thousands of arrests — all carried out in the name of Islam and Shiism by those who use Imam Ali’s name but take the path of his enemies instead.

snip--

Read more: http://tehranbureau.com/grand-ayatollah-montazeris-fatwa/

---

This is going to get interesting.

[DCBob]

1. Yes. This is very big. Many were hoping this would happen.

Apparently a fatwa from this guy carries alot weight with Iranians. There is hope for the "Green Revolution"!

[MADem]

2. YES YES YES!!!!!! Oh happy day! Let the frigging games begin.

Time for the big shit to take a hike. The asshole! And his little dog, too!

The kids should put THIS on the tips of their spears!!!

....As I said, those who have lost, religiously and reasonably, the credibility for serving the public, are automatically dismissed, and the continuation of their work has no legitimacy. If they want to use force, or fool or cheat people in order to keep their power, people must express their opinion about the illegitimacy and lack of their approval of their performance, and seek their dismissal through the best and least harmful way. It is clear that this is a societal duty of everyone, and all the people, regardless of their social positions and according to their knowledge and capability, must participate in this endeavor, and cannot shirk their responsibility. The enlightened who have more knowledge about the religion and the laws, and are also more influential, have more responsibility . They must unify people and through formation of political parties and organizations, as well as public and private gatherings, inform the people and show them the way . In his will Imam Ali said , “the governance and domination of the evil people is the natural consequence of not preaching good deeds and avoiding sin, because they abuse the opportunities.

[BunkerHill24]

3. This guy is just another so called "Reformist"

As one Iranian scholar put it; "The demonstrations, like those in 1953, are intended to discredit the Iranian government and to establish for Western opinion that the government is a repressive regime that does not have the support of the Iranian people. This manipulation of opinion sets up Iran as another Iraq ruled by a dictator who must be overthrown by sanctions or an invasion."

'Nuff Said!

[Odin2005]

5. Oh bull.

[BunkerHill24]

6. Oh yes.

[keopeli]

9. You mean you think a week of massive street demonstrations was organized by western powers?

If that's the case, I think you need a vacation. I'm afraid you think a bit too highly of our "western governments" if you think we could pull that off in Iran today.

Peace

[Odin2005]

10. Tin-foil-hatters by definition force facts to fit their distorted view of the world.

That's why it's impossible to reason with them, they are victims of their own circular reasoning.

[ldf]

50. don't broad brush "tin-foil hatters".

you show your ignorance.

[BunkerHill24]

14. Google is your best friend...

Brian Ross and Richard Esposito Report:

ABC News, May 22, 2007. The CIA has received secret presidential approval to mount a covert "black" operation to destabilize the Iranian government, current and former officials in the intelligence community tell the Blotter on ABCNews.com.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5734

[vincent_vega_lives]

15. Even if entirely true

doesn't discount Iranian displeasure with their government.

[BunkerHill24]

19. You are entitled to your opinion, but facts are facts

[Joe Chi Minh]

12. Bingo! Odin's response to your post just confirms it.

[Ken Burch]

16. The government overthrown by the U.S. in 1953 was progressive and secular

This one is fundamentalist and reactionary.

Ahmadinejad is NOT Mossadegh. If Mossadegh were alive today, he's stand with the protesters.

[Joe Chi Minh]

20. Correct. The US had different objectives then. Saddam Hussein was a

progressive in that limited sense, and indeed was their creation.

[Ken Burch]

21. Saddam was actually seen by the U.S., in the Eighties as a...wait for it...

"Bulwark against Communism".

That's why Rummy gave him the handjob...I mean handshake.

[Joe Chi Minh]

25. Yep. Just like Hitler was viewed in the West.

[Ken Burch]

26. Hitler was, in fact, the FIRST person to be called a "bulwark against Communism"

n/t.

[ohio2007]

33. by who ?

FDR ?

[Ken Burch]

36. The right-wing press of the Thirties

n/t.

[Joe Chi Minh]

40. No doubt.

[ohio2007]

32. Saddams military hardware come from Soviet inventories back in the 70's

Saddams batthist party history is older then rummys middle east politics.

funniest turn around during the middle east Cold War politics was when a single gaurd at a Soviet radar base in Alexandria refused entry to Anwar Sadat.


talk about a reach around
LOL

[vincent_vega_lives]

35. Really?

Ever notice during the Iran/Iraq war who was using what?

Iran: The US's best military hardware available

Iraq: The USSR's best military hardware available

Saddam was seen as a bulwark against Iran after the revolution, and the US tried to court him away from the Soviets.

[TheWraith]

45. Iran did not have the US' best hardware, they had what we'd sold the Shah.

However, military hardware is in large part dependent on being able to get things like parts and maintainence gear, which is why we're so serious about the sanctions. It's not about nuclear technology, it's about keeping them from buying parts for their F-14s.

[vincent_vega_lives]

49. Read again

I didn't say Iran had the US's best hardware...I said best available.

operational at the start of the war (1980):

79 F-14
167 F-5
209 F-4

[BunkerHill24]

23. I think th situation is more urgent than in 1953....now that Israel is involved

[ohio2007]

37. Israel has been involved since..... 1967. Why is today different ?

Was it a stolen election that got them involved or was it a CIA supplied cell phone twitter revolution the deciding factor ?

wanting to see how the tin foil spins since up thread there was mention of a CIA financed election "plan".

Freedom of the press vs freddom to repress is the actual thread subject imo.

[BunkerHill24]

53. Israel's involvement is an extension of America's involvement in the ME

As the famous saying goes: "In twenty-four hours, we could have the signatures of seventy senators on this napkin." So, what America does about Iran has the agreement and the blessing of Isreal.....in Congress, in the Senate, and in this administration.
When you have repugnant, powerful, un-regulated and unapologetic lobbyists with unfettered access of influence; America cannot decide of its own policy in the ME.

[LeftishBrit]

66. Absolutely!

[aquart]

31. And the identity and credentials of this "iranian scholar"?

Because he sounds just like the DU racists who don't believe the Iranians are capable of any autonomous action.

[MADem]

61. He's a short little bastard, with a crazed look in his eye, wears a

knock-off Member's Only jacket, needs a shave....by the name of Ahmadi Nejad.

Used to be the Mayor of Teheran....


:rofl:

[DLnyc]

34. The delicate subtlety of your analysis is utterly underwhelming.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Posteritatis]

43. What, pray tell, are "DU credentials?" (nt)

[DLnyc]

56. self delete

[MADem]

60. No he isn't. He's the religious authority who has more "juice" than the Supreme. NT

[Gregorian]

4. Brave man., I'll send this to my girl from Tehran, and see what she thinks, and get back.

[ohio2007]

7. post a link or follow up when you can. In the meantime, here is an interesting take on what religion

truely means to the theocracy and riots in certain parts of the world

IRAN: Are China's Muslims worthy of Islamic Republic's support?

Although Iranian authorities were quick to condemn the killing of a Muslim Egyptian woman by an alleged racist in a German courtroom last week, allowing protesters to organize a demonstration and hurl eggs at the German Embassy in Tehran, they've been less than compassionate about scores of Muslims killed in western China.

"The United States is behind the riots in Xinjiang," said an analysis published by the official Islamic Republic News Agency, or IRNA. "Living conditions have improved for the Chinese Muslims. These riots have no religious aspect and they are just the outcome of a U.S. conspiracy. However, the Western media have exaggerated the events in Xinjiang."


snip

The Ahmadinejad government's explanation for the violence in China has startled some observers, especially after the row it is continuing to make over the death of Marwa Sherbini, who was stabbed 18 times in a courtroom in Dresden, Germany, by a man identified as Axel W. But Iran also supported Moscow when it cracked down on rebellious Muslims in the breakaway republic of Chechnya during the 1990s.

According to the IRNA analysis, the West stirred up all the trouble in western China out of jealousy of the Beijing government's economic successes:


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/07/iran-are-chinas-muslims-worthy-of-islamic-republics-support.html

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. I think the Chinese Muslims are Sufi

and Sufis are held in low regard among the fundamentalists.

[BunkerHill24]

17. Iranian religious leaders spoke out the situation in thee Xinjiang province

Iran religious leaders condemn Chinese violence
Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:48:39 GMT


Two of the leading religious clerics in Iran have spoken out against the recent violence in China where numbers of Muslims in Xinjiang province have been killed.

Grand Ayatollahs Nasser Makarem-Shirazi and Lotfollah Saafi-Golpayegani, who each have huge a number of followers, condemned the attacks on China's Muslim minorities and called on people and governments to speak against the violence in Xinjiang.

<snip>

Describing the conflict as one between the “Muslims and the racist Hans,” the Grand Ayatollah rejected its portrayal by Chinese government as an “ethnic conflict,” because “the support of the government of the anti- group, and the harsh suppression of Muslims and the closure of the mosques, all point to a conspiracy against the Muslims of that region.”

On a separate pronouncement on the violence in China, Grand Ayatollah Saafi-Golpayegani condemned the “sad events in China, resulting in the deaths of a group of oppressed and defenseless Muslims… and the violation of their basic human rights in that country.”

He too called on Muslim states to “react to these violations of Muslims' rights around the world, without any discrimination.”

more: http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=100489§ionid=351020101

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. glad to hear it n/t

[ohio2007]

27. but did they allow the concerned citizens to pelt the Chinese embassy with rotten eggs?

like they did the German embassy when the German immigrant from Russia was big news?

Saudi's as well as the Egyptians seem to be keeping a lid on the population as well with the announcement that muslims in China are banned from the friday 'mandatory' prayers. And as for Iran,

Iran is Orwellian

Two

of the leading religious clerics in Iran have spoken out against the recent violence in China ..

.. < and a third cleric > .. called on Muslim states to “react to these violations of Muslims' rights around the world, without any discrimination.”

<crickets> ?

[BunkerHill24]

30. My suspicion is that they are using diplomatic channels to express their concern

I think that is what they are trying to do. Calling China on human rights violation would make them look as hypocrites.

[ohio2007]

64. China controls the religion and they closed them down last friday and it is of no concern to

I doubt the theocrats 'invited' the Chinese ambassador in to explain why it was that prayer worship was suspended.
the mullahs. They share a common interest in absolute power and defending the lesser muslims at a higher level isn't in the best interests of either countries ruling class. The top dogs would probably be more comfortable discussing trivial matters such as gas line rights and supplies over a good bottle of rare scotch ;)

oh yes they do hypocrite to a certain excess

Mosque and state:



Most Uighurs practice Sunni or Sufi Islam, infused with a fair amount of local folklore and tradition. Uighur Islam is traditionally extremely moderate on social issues, though in recent decades, more fundamentalist traditions were introduced by students who studied abroad in Central Asian and Pakistani madrasas. The Uighur independence movement has had a strongly Islamic character since the 1980s. Until recently, there was almost no tradition of Islamist militancy in Xinjiang, but there have been reports that the Central Asian jihadist group Hizb ut-Tahrir has made inroads in the region. The government tightly regulates the practice of Islam and accreditation of clerics.


http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/07/09/photo_essay_who_are_the_uighurs?page=0,3

[ohio2007]

29. Just proof "some are more equal then others"

[Alamuti Lotus]

65. well, most are Sunnis of the Hanafi school

a large Ismaili Shia community exists in Kashgar (descendents of the outposts established by the dai and fideyeen of Imam Hasan as-Sabbah(RA)'s successors), and several small Sufi orders who smoke, drink, and fight over the graves of saints. All of the official mosques are run by officials of the Chinese Communist Party and teach obedience to the state and discourage aqeedah and tawhid; unofficial mosques and gatherings abound and are now being targetted, as they have been for decades.

[varelse]

8. Strong words

The courageous people of Iran are also aware of such confessions — the examples of which can be found in the history of communist and fascist regimes — and are aware that such confessions and fake television interviews are extracted from their jailed children under duress and torture, in order to hide the oppression and injustice, and in order to present a distorted image of the peaceful and lawful protests of the people. The officials who are responsible for such acts must be aware that such acts are sinful, and are punishable both religiously and by law. Iran belongs to the people, not to you and me, and they make the decisions, and the officials are their servants. People must be able to gather peacefully, and defend their rights both in writing and orally. When the Shah heard people’s revolutionary voice , it was too late. It is hoped that the officials will not allow the same situation to develop again, by being as flexible as possible about the people’s demands.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. This is a very interesting turn of events

with this ayatollah's backing, will the protests get louder? Will something actually be done?

[AntiFascist]

18. K&R n/t

[AlbertCat]

24. Good

Let the cranky old women hating men of all religions eat each other and kill each other off. I'm sick of all of them.

[Joanne98]

28. WOW

:wow: :wow: :wow: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

38. Professor Kadivar teaching at Duke U in North Carolina - go Tarheels!

Article says:

"Ayatollah Motazeri, who has long been one of the most outspoken critics of Iran’s hard-liners, issued the Fatwas in response to a letter that Dr. Mohsen Kadivar, a progressive cleric and a former student of his, wrote..."

Dr. Mohsen Kadivar currently is teaching at Duke University in North Carolina.

Ayatollah Kadivar interviewed by Der Spiegal about the situation in Iran.
'This Iranian Form of Theocracy Has Failed'
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,633517,00.html

ABOUT MOHSEN KADIVAR
Mohsen Kadivar is considered one of the leading religious critics of the Iranian regime. He spent 18 months in the infamous Ervin prison for his beliefs. In recognition of his efforts to reconcile Islam and democracy, Time magazine called him one the world's most important innovators. Currently, the professor, who carries the religious status of ayatollah, or "sign of god," is teaching for a semester at Duke University in North Carolina. Kadivar is married and has four children.

[Joe Chi Minh]

42. Fatwa? Love his liberal credentials!

[ohio2007]

63. If the theocrat witch hunt puts him on trial, you can count on the fact they will link him as being

a spy of the great satan and throw him in prison.

jmo
It's not about religion, it's about absolute power under attack

[grantcart]

39. Humpty Dumpty Sat On a Wall

Humpty Dumpty had a big fall


And all of the king's horses and all of the king's men couldn't put Humpty back together again after the Grand Ayatollah issued a Fatwa.

[usregimechange]

44. k/r

[spindrifter]

46. May the fatwas give the Iranian people the courage

to do what they must do.

[Jefferson23]

47. OMG, I am stunned.

[nradisic]

48. Oh snap!

Joda said the green revolution is a go. The current regimes days are numbered. It could be ugly for a while, but Iran will be modernizing big-time in the next ten years. Good...

[peacetalksforall]

51. It's difficult to understand all the subtleties of this, but the most disturbing

is the way spinners hit the scene with comments. Can't figure out their subtleties either. The news they bring that seems to be the equivalent of a WH approval for regime change offsets what seems to be good news. Why can't we keep out of this. Why can't Obama stay out of this. Does he have to make work for the CIA. I'm disgusted about this no matter what the truth is.

WE ARE NOT IMPERIALISTS. WE CAN START STOPPING TO PLAY GAMES. THEY ALWAYS INVOLVE DEATH OF MANY AND PROFIT FOR A FEW. THEY COST THE TAXPAYERS; THE HUNGRY, HOMELESS, UNINSURED TAXPAYERS.

A breaking news item has to turn into a swarmy, naysaying put down with tidbits that don't make a case before we can work out what it all means. Guess we'll have to go to the blogs and see if we can pick up some words from the rest of the world.

[DCBob]

52. In a related development -- Rafsanjani to lead prayers on Friday

After a long absence, pro-Mousavi cleric Rafsanjani to lead prayers
By Borzou Daragahi
4:27 PM PDT, July 12, 2009

Reporting from Beirut -- A powerful cleric who has been a driving force behind the opposition movement challenging the reelection of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will lead Friday prayers this week after a two-month absence that was considered a sign of conflict within the Iranian establishment.

The semiofficial Iranian Labor News Agency reported Sunday that Ayatollah Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani will deliver the nation's weekly keynote religious sermon. Rafsanjani, who chairs powerful boards that oversee the office of the supreme leader and adjudicate disputes between government bodies, is the highest-profile backer of opposition candidate Mir-Hossein Mousavi, who lost to Ahmadinejad in an election marred by allegations of vote-rigging.

Mousavi's Facebook page ( www.facebook.com/mousavi) said that he and his ally, former President Mohammad Khatami, would attend the prayer sermon. The Facebook page invited supporters who poured into the streets in recent weeks to attend, though Mousavi's website, Ghalamnews.ir, carried no such announcement.

News of the return of reformists and moderates to the official Friday prayer ceremony could serve as a challenge to hard-liners, led by supreme leader Ali Khamenei, on their home turf. Alternately, it could be a sign that the two sides have brokered a truce in their continuing political conflict.

More: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iran13-2009jul13,0,2848040.story

[SeeHopeWin]

57. I like this guy, Rafsanjani - I think he is the real deal!

[Alamuti Lotus]

67. Rafsanjani is the biggest fucking crook in Iran..

:eyes:

[alfredo]

54. Beautifully stated.

[Posteritatis]

55. ".... the people can dismiss him." Nice! (nt)

[PretzelWarrior]

58. if true, this is very good news for the eventual freedom of Iranians.

[LeftishBrit]

59. k&r

Still probably a small and early step - but it does give more hope!

[Uncle Joe]

62. I believe this is a good development for the Iranian People.

Thanks for the thread, formercia.:thumbsup: