Venezuela tells oil workers: join socialist groups

[Zorro]

Source: Reuters

Venezuela's oil workers will be suspected of conspiring against President Hugo Chavez's socialist revolution if they do not join socialist workplace groups in the OPEC nation, the oil minister said on Tuesday.

Ramirez, who told oil workers to support Chavez ahead of his 2006 reelection, has long headed the president's drive to bring politics into Venezuela's main industry.

"By now, there should not be a single counter-revolutionary in the heart of our company, our industry," Ramirez said at a rally with workers taken on by state-oil company PDVSA after it nationalized dozens of oil service companies earlier this year.

"There cannot be a single PDVSA installation where socialist committees do not exist," he said. "Whoever is not in a committee will be suspected of conspiring against the revolution."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090714/wl_nm/us_venezuela_oil_1

---

Bolivarian "democracy" in action.

C'mon Chavistas, tell us how wonderful this action is.

[Synicus Maximus]

1. I'm sure it's just a misunderstanding

:sarcasm:

[Zorro]

2. Yes, it's probably Reuters misreporting the news once again

just to make Chavez look like an autocrat instead of the people's hero.

[EFerrari]

7. The headline is misleading. This was a political event, not a government event.

But I guess you have to be able to read English to figure that out.

[WriteDown]

15. Looks like the oil workers were also TOLD to support Chavez

That sounds political to me.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hgDU9pZXq6KsP2nYZCwOo_WkKKngD99EIBIO0

[EFerrari]

20. What part of political rally do you not understand?

lol

But that can't happen in VENEZUELA because when it happens in VENEZUELA it's SINISTER! :scared:

[WriteDown]

34. The video where Ramirez tells workers who to support for

president is a political rally? Who knew? :eyes:

[EFerrari]

63. Have you ever been to a political rally?

They happen through networks. Unions, clubs, neighborhoods. That's how it works.

[WriteDown]

66. So if Steven Chu put out a video saying that all energy

workers should vote republican because that is what he now believes, that would be okay?

[EFerrari]

72. So, you never have been to a political rally where politicians speak and everything?

[WriteDown]

75. I've never had my employer distribute a video

telling me who to support. If they did, I would go straight to the press.

[EFerrari]

77. So, that would be a "no". EDIT

When I worked for AT&T and was in CWA, we had mandatory meetings with politicos all the time and those videos didn't make themselves. :)

[WriteDown]

78. Obviously, you went to the press and the authorities...

Please link to some of the articles.

[EFerrari]

81. Why would I go to the press for a routine occurrence?

That's just silly.

[WriteDown]

88. Routine occurence?

When did big telecom get to you?

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wantoutnow]

22. They werent told to do anything.

If those that want to continue to believe in the Capitalist model, they are free to leave the industry.

[WriteDown]

32. So the video is fake?

Please link to some evidence.

[wantoutnow]

37. Show me in the video where the workers were told

under threat that they had to join or die. What exactly about the video are you trying to prove? that he said that there should be committies and that those who dont join should be considered as against the Capitalistic exploitative and greed model? Let the private contractors leave. I dont remember in the video where Chavez or Ramirez said people will be executed, like they do to trade unionists in Colombia, for example.

[WriteDown]

39. So you'd be okay with an employer holding a meeting in the US

and telling his people who they should vote for? Does the threat have to be join or die? Can't it just be a veiled threat, join or face the consequences?

[wantoutnow]

41. Employers do that right now

Employers routinely hold formal and informal meetings with their employees who express an interest in unionizing and intimidate them. Ive seen it happen. Walmart is notorious for it.

[WriteDown]

43. Making my point...

It's wrong any way you slice it.

[wantoutnow]

46. Ive made no point of yours.

The workers, and I will say for the third time now, are owners and private contractors representing for profit oil companies who want to continue to over charge and exploit the Venezuelan people. Chavez is saying no. He is saying you will be considered to be against the people if you continue to insist on expoitation and greed. You support the other position.

[WriteDown]

55. Against the people if you don't submit?

Yeah, nothing wrong with that. Either you're with us or you're against us. Where have I heard that before? :eyes:

[wantoutnow]

61. No

let follow here real slowly...against the people if you want to continue to use exploitative profit and greed. He is not asking them to submit. He asks them to LEAVE like other nationalized industires if they continue to stomp up and down and cry because they are not "free" to exploit anymore. Getting it yet?

Its either you can join us or you can leave. not either you do what we say, or we murder you. Like they do in Colombia, or Honduras, or the US circa 2001-2008.

[WriteDown]

62. What is the Venezuelan economy based on?

Oil, right? So support this political party or don't work? How very rethuglican.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WriteDown]

68. No leg to stand on...

If it was don't be a part of the KKK or some malicious organization and or we'll fire you then it may have some merit. But its YOU MUST JOIN this particular organization. The nazis had similar rules. You're just flailing around in hero worship.

[wantoutnow]

71. No where in the video did it say you must join.

The video stated that if you dont agree with not being exploitative and greedy you will be considered against socialism. There are no threats made about life or limb. There is no threat made about you will automatically be fired. The video exemplifies what Chavez has done elsewhere in the economy, where if you want to continue to think you can exploit people and get away with it, you need to leave. I understand where you are coming from.

If someone who is used to bullying and assulting others all of a sudden is confronted and says thats not acceptale anymore, that person is going to get angry and lash out. Too. F-ing bad. Perhaps they should consider not assaulting people anymore.

[WriteDown]

74. "You have a real nice place here...

It would be a shame if something were to happen to it. Accidents happen all the time in this neighborhood. Me and my associates can protect you for a small fee. No threat there either." :rofl:

By the way, when are you booking your flight to go work for PDVSA?

[wantoutnow]

83. your quote

perfectly exposes what private industry has done to the Venezeulan people. Its called Projection. Are you familiar with projection? Shall I post to expose your argument even more?

[WriteDown]

89. If you say so....

I still love it. "You're with us or you're against us." :rofl:

[pattmarty]

54. happens all the time here in union drives. Employees get fired............

.......employers hold "meetings" (forced) for their employees. We could use more Socialism here. The "capitalists" seem to fuck up the financial sector again and again.

[Psephos]

36. Nice little career in the oil industry you have there...be a shame if anything were to happen to it.

"...they are free to leave the industry."

That doesn't sound very free to me. :shrug:

[wantoutnow]

40. you are right

they are not free to exploit anymore. The mafia operated under a voilent model, you know, similar to your amigos in Colombia, where they murder people who dare try to organize unions. But Im sure you are completely ok with business unions, such as the Chamber of Commerce, trade groups, business organizations. Those types of unions are a-ok with you. But workers union, well... they need to be executed right? Familiar with the Pinkertons here in the good old USA?

[Psephos]

51. dude, quit smoking that cheap Mexican ditchweed

cuz it's making you have all kinds of fantasies about me that aren't true...which makes me a little, umm, grossed out ;)

Meanwhile, those savage oil barons of the PDVSA you say aren't free to exploit anymore...are...the...workers. As in proles. The guys who get sweaty.

Black is White. War is Peace. And you are clearly just the kind of goodthinker the Inner Party guys at MiniPlenty (PDVSA Branch) are counting on.

[wantoutnow]

52. Those savage oil baron of the PDVSA I say arent free to exploit

anymore, are. still. the. private. contractors./owners. who. wish. to. continue. to profit. off. of. the. industry. I dont smoke anything. I expose invalid arguments, misdirection, and fallacies. Suc. as. yours. :)

[WriteDown]

56. Seems like work without pay is exploitation...

That's just me though.

[wantoutnow]

64. working without pay is exploitation

you are correct. The problem is, and I know you understand this, is that they want to work exploiting huge profits like they did before, and Chavez is saying no. You cant work for exploitation while driving up PDVSA debt and pocketing illegal profits at Venezuelans expense anymore. I know its hard once you are accustomed to stealing and being told "no", youre not allowed to steal anymore. Its difficult and makes Capitalists angry when they hear they can no longer "freely" rip people off. You know, Capitalists right to be "free" to exploit.

[WriteDown]

65. So the workers asking for a paycheck of some sort....

is asking for huge profits? I'm sure you feel horrible every time you're paid. Maybe you could ask your employer to just stop paying you.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WriteDown]

76. Uh, no...

These are just workers. Please read the BBC article before responding. Apparently, exploitative levels are anything above 0.

[wantoutnow]

82. I read the article and no where in the article does it say they are "just workers"

the only worker in the article is referenced by the Shell oil executive who makes unverifiable claims about Venezuelas' oil industry now. No verification. No proof of any claim in the article. I read the enitire article and will break down piece by piece post by post if you would like.

[WriteDown]

90. Yep, the BBC is just a terrible news source...

Reread it again. :rofl:

[Bacchus39]

99. I did see it in the AP article. I will gladly look for it in the BBC if you could direct me

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8093790.stm

was this what you have been refering to in part of your discussion? work with no pay??? that sucks. That actually makes oil companies look good!!!!!

[Psephos]

60. MiniTru will be so proud of you :)

Now all quick-like, stuff this inconvenient malreport down the memory hole before anyone else sees it. ;)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8093790.stm

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zorro]

16. Still can't respond to the contents of the article, can you?

[EFerrari]

17. That is the contents of this article.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[timeforpeace]

3. Zelaya likes him.

[dipsydoodle]

4. I suggest you find the Reuters article,

see who wrote it, see who she works for, and then allow for the fact it's a right wing newspaper. Got a Fox link too to entertain us ?

Just to give you a clue see here for refs. to El Universal : http://www.rethinkvenezuela.com/downloads/More%20Than%20100%20LatAm%20Experts%20Question%20HRW.htm

[Zorro]

5. Wanna respond to the contents of the article, Dip?

Or do you just want to go off-topic?

[dipsydoodle]

8. Diarrhea doesn't really merit comment

Goodnight.

[Zorro]

11. Are you saying Ramirez' comments are diarrhea?

[EFerrari]

6. How lame are you? This was a rally.

OH MY FUCKING GAWD, POLITICAL SPEECH!111111111111

Tell you what, when oil workers start showing up dead like workers do in Colombia under the fascist you defend, get back to me.

lol

[Zorro]

9. You saying that a "political speech" doesn't describe policies?

Figures you'd find some braindead way to dismiss the contents of the article.

And I see you're making shit up again, since you can't defend your beloved Hugo's policies.

[dipsydoodle]

10. Playing the fiendish kick your own post game I see.

Predictable I guess.

[Zorro]

12. Hey Dip, you responded

even if it was an empty response. Thanks for the kick.

[EFerrari]

14. The contents of this article is that political speech happened at a political rally!

OMG! HIDE THE WOMEN!

:rofl:

[Zorro]

18. Yes everyone knows that a political speech never indicates policy direction

[EFerrari]

21. Nice try, though. n/t

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[paulk]

70. how does it being a "political rally" make it better?

A member of the cabinet saying something like this should be troubling, regardless of the venue.

I don't find your defense of this much of a defense.

[EFerrari]

86. You've never seen a government official at a political rally?

[Posteritatis]

87. I rarely see them saying I'll be suspected of crimes unless I think how they want. (nt)

[EFerrari]

95. Conspiring against the revolution is political rhetoric, not a crime,

although the entire point of this article is to make you confuse the two.

[paulk]

101. When the words come from a member of the President's

cabinet, I feel that puts them in a different league than mere "political rhetoric".

When a member of the cabinet threatens people's jobs over their political convictions, red flags should be going up.

[EFerrari]

102. Then you are reading in, not reading. No one's job was threatened.

This is the same government that invited a rep from the opposition student movement to speak to the Assembly. The government you are imagining would never have done such a thing. It would be like Reid inviting Code Pink to speak in the Senate.

[WriteDown]

13. This is probably his response to them not getting paid....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8093790.stm

[EFerrari]

24. There's restructuring going on here, more than one thing.

"Some say they lost their jobs during the nationalisation, others that their pay has been frozen."

But, well done with siding with Shell and not with Venezuela.

[Zorro]

26. Siding with the Venezuelan government instead of the workers, I see

Jobs lost, pay frozen...tell us again how much you care about the working class.

[EFerrari]

28. Jobs lost, pay frozen. Gee, where have I heard that lately. n/t

[Zorro]

53. Well, see post #24

Duh

[WriteDown]

31. Restructuring?

That's one heck of a euphemism.

[wantoutnow]

33. I read the article too.

convienent facts are left out. That 7.5 billion in debt was incurred when the oil industry in Venezuela was in private control. It didnt magically appread when Chavez nationalised the industry, yet they try to dishonestly pin that on him. They say there is protests now. The "protests" consist of very small groups of private contracting companies and owners kicking and screaming and stomping their feet because they dont get to charge whatever they want anymore, ripping off the Venezuelan people.

The media in still very largely controlled by private interests who openly called for the coup and assassination of Chavez, and who still encourage violence against Chavez' democratically elected government.

[WriteDown]

35. PDVSA is a private contracting company?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8093790.stm

Learn something new every day.

[wantoutnow]

42. no, its now nationalized. The private contracting companies that

got PDVSA into debt were Royal Dutch Shell, Exxon, and several other for-profit contractors. Being intentionally obtuse?

[WriteDown]

44. Amazingly, those companies paid though.

Its a real thinker isn't it?

[wantoutnow]

47. Oh they paid alright

They paid themselves handsomely in profit at the expense pf PVSDA

[WriteDown]

57. And the workers...

Something that PDVSA seems to find difficult.

[wantoutnow]

48. PDVSA

[wantoutnow]

19. I'll chime in

Chavez didnt say he was going to murder or assassinate oil workers, like the other side does. He rightly would think that if you dont want to join in, you should leave the industry. Thats why he kicked out parasitic private companies and re-negotiated contracts to favor the Venezuelan people, instead of a handful of CEO's. He is insisting that the workers take responsibility and employee management and ownership in the companies, a much better idea than a CEO and a Board of Directors calling all the shots. Its called owning the fruits on one's labor. I know thats a radical idea to folks on here who are used to and encourage exploitation and greed.

Those folks should just be honest and upfront on these boards and come out and embrace the exploitation and greed that come with the Capitalistic for-profit model. Its what some folks support and encourage. Be honest about it.

[Zorro]

23. So you're OK with government threatening worker's jobs

if the workers don't agree to actively support government policies?

You think that's a policy Democrats should embrace?

[EFerrari]

25. Except that's utter bullshit. You should just ask the poster

if s/he agrees with your utter bullshit or not. Save some time.

[Zorro]

27. Can't answer the question either, I see

[EFerrari]

29. You took your shot. n/t

[Zorro]

92. And rang your bell

[EFerrari]

96. The problem you have is a lot of people at DU can read. n/t

[Zorro]

97. And I'm sure they're enjoying this thread

Why do you say I have a problem with a lot of DU readin' readers?

[wantoutnow]

30. Im ok with insisting

workers take a ownership and management role in their company. If the workers dont agree, and by the way, lets be honest here, these are "specialist" contractors who are either owners or work for for-profit companies, they are free to leave and compete. They dont have to actively support government policies if they dont want. Plenty of people dont. The media(print and TV) have been visciously and violently against Chavez, supporting overthrow and a coup. Wealthy Venezeulans dont like Chavez because he seeks to expose their greed and exploitation.

These "workers" are private contractors charging as much as they can get away with and they are very relatively few, yet their stories are magnified as if they exepmfly all of the workers attitudes but the media.

[WriteDown]

38. Its probably support this or don't ever get paid....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8093790.stm

Makes being president for life easy when that is your main industry and employer.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WriteDown]

58. They are not getting paid now...

What makes you believe they "can get paid, no problem?"

[wantoutnow]

79. The private contractors/owners

are not getting paid because they insist on the exploitative profits they are used to. Do I need to repeat a thousand times what is profit. I posted an entire thread on it...got well over 250 replies. These "workers" are the owner/private contractors who work for private companies still trying to maintain the illegal exploitative system.

[WriteDown]

91. Wanting to feed your family is exploitative?

Its amazing that there are 8K owner/private contractors. :eyes: Its not like they're getting reduced pay, they're getting no pay. :eyes:

[wantoutnow]

45. the "workers" are owners and private for profit contractors kicking and screaming because

they cant rip off Venezuela's oil industry any longer.

[WriteDown]

59. I can't wait until they hand out the litte red books...

I need to snag me one. :rofl:

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bacchus39]

93. now this is democracy in action. If you want to keep your job, you must be a Chavista

once again, Venezuela teaching the world how to conduct a democracy.

[ohio2007]

98. If you want to draw a paycheck, you gotta pay your dues

Hugo's union dues are going to take a decent cut from thier paychecks is what it's all about.

[Bacchus39]

100. pay check??? what pay check???

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8093790.stm

work with no pay??? Indentured servitude is a better deal.

[harun]

94. Unrec'd

Misleading, propaganda.

[excess_3]

103. Oilworkers ----> same as Mugabe's war veterans n/t