Troops seize police station in Venezuela

[Bacchus39]

Source: AP

Christopher Toothaker, Associated Press Writer
CARACAS, Venezuela – Dozens of National Guard troops seized control of a police station controlled by a leading opponent of President Hugo Chavez on Wednesday, adding to tensions between Venezuela's government and elected opposition officials.

About 40 National Guard troops tossed tear gas canisters at a police precinct post in the town of Curiepe, east of Caracas, shortly before dawn, said Elisio Guzman, director of the Miranda state police. He said the officers inside were forced to leave and the National Guard occupied the building.

Guzman said the motive behind the takeover was unclear and national government officials could not immediately be reached for comment.

"They started launching tear gas without mediating, without speaking with anyone," Guzman said in a telephone interview. He said he ordered officers under his command to stand down, telling them to "avoid any conflict."



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090715/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_police_takeover

[Arctic Dave]

1. "a police station controlled by a leading opponent of President Hugo Chavez"

Since when do police stations get to be controlled by politicians and not the law? This response by the Chavez govt sounds appropriate to me.

[Bacchus39]

2. the state police, under the authority of the governor I assume. at least until now n/t

s

[imdjh]

3. Next up, Chavez stages a coup against himself, replaces himself with himself.

"When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer."

[David__77]

4. This is legal. And Polimiranda is acting against the state.

The interior ministry is fully authorized to deploy the national guard in this manner under the Police Act.

What state will tolerate an openly seditious law enforcement agency? Polimiranda obstructs the National Guard, which is reason enough.
http://www.aporrea.org/ddhh/n130012.html

They engage in all sorts of political persecution:
http://www.aporrea.org/actualidad/n3203.html

Regardless, it's legal and constitutional action against a right-wing police force acting against the people's interests.

[sfwriter]

5. At least they let the guards go...

In how many other countries would they have been killed or "disappeared?"

[David__77]

6. Right-wing mob riots.

From the facist RCTV network:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MndiQZDmn4g&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Felobservador.rctv.net%2FNoticias%2FVerNoticia.aspx%3FNoticiaId%3D263962%26Tipo%3D35&feature=player_embedded

I mob is violently attacking the National Guard conducting its legal activities. I'm sure, as usual, these fascists will be treated with utmost leniency, which is a terrible mistake. They should all be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible.

[Bacchus39]

7. what is Telesur reporting on the incident?? n/t

s

[David__77]

8. I can't watch so I don't know... but,

the local mayor, Liliana Gonzalez, does approve of this action as well.

http://www.laverdad.com/detnotic.php?CodNotic=16366

It's not too complicated really. The police station was on municipal land and should not have been. The mayor's representatives tried to negotiate with the police, but the latter refused. The national guard enforced the law, and a right-wing mob was formed to inflame the situation.

http://politica.eluniversal.com/2009/07/15/pol_ava_grupo-armado-identif_15A2501523.shtml

[Bacchus39]

9. yeah look at that right ring mob, scary isn't it? nothing at Telesur yet

probably want to make sure they get all the facts straight. http://www.telesurtv.net/noticias/secciones/index.php?sec=latinoamerica

[David__77]

11. Throwing objects, setting fires. I think government might object here too.

Most enforcers of the law don't care for massed groups that are setting fires and throwing objects. They may even make arrests. I'm not sure of a country where that's legal.

Regardless of the issue of the massed group that is thowing things and setting fires, the action by the National Guard, with the mayor's approval, was entirely legal. There is certainly legal recourse for the state police if they believe otherwise. There are courts for that purpose willing to hear them.

[David__77]

16. So what?

This happened recently in the nearby station of Caucagua. Aporrea covered it:

http://www.aporrea.org/medios/a82087.html

This is a dispute concerning the location of state police stations on municipal land. The right-wingers are using it as a pretext to riot.

I'm not sure every time some right-wingers belch that it warrants a news flash.

[WriteDown]

10. What's next?

Hugo requiring all oil workers join his party? Oh wait.... :rofl:

[David__77]

12. There is no such requirement.

Of course PSUV leaders support strengthening the political position of progressives in the state enterprises. They do so not with compulsion though, but through political mobilization. People certainly like to make accusations against Venezuela's government without backing them up.

[Bacchus39]

14. Guess you haven't heard the news n/t

s

[WriteDown]

15. Sure....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3969220

[David__77]

17. Is that thread supposed to support your proposition?

There were no threats nor actions taken against a single worker, or workers generally. Is there documentation of such action?

[WriteDown]

18. Join or else?

You're either with us or against us? Got to love it. :rofl:

[David__77]

19. Or else what? There was no threat.

I don't see how this is contrary to the laws of Venezuela, or prohibits an employee from being an oppositionist.

[WriteDown]

20. I believe the words were...

"Whoever is not in a committee will be suspected of conspiring against the revolution."

And then if a group of people are fired, they will be accused of spreading anti-Chavez propaganda by people like you.

Kind of like these guys who made the mistake of wanting a paycheck.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8093790.stm

[David__77]

22. And what is the penalty for being "suspected" of such?

That's what this is about. There are no such consequences you can point to. Of course there are counter-revolutionaries in PDVSA, and there are many others among the population at large. They oppose the Bolivarian social system. But that doesn't mean that they're being imprisoned or fired on that basis.

Hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans engage in anti-Chavez politics. Chavez knows it, everyone does, and it's not illegal. There are elections all the time. Of course the PSUV wants to strengthen itself, and hasten the social transformation, but it does so within the legal framework of the republic, which is pluralistic and free.

[WriteDown]

23. I imagine the consequence is not getting paid.

As seen by PDVSA workers.

[David__77]

24. You imagine incorrectly.

They were not "PDVSA workers." They worked for other companies that were nationalized. At the time the BBC article was written, they had not yet come on the PDVSA payroll, and hence were not paid. The workers were noted for the SUPPORT for the socialist government, so your theory makes no sense:

"They waved red flags and celebrated their addition to the payroll of the state-run energy company, PDVSA."

The rub is that they hadn't been added yet to the payroll. But that isn't due to their political position, which is pro-government.

[WriteDown]

25. Since they are now on the payroll, have they now been paid?

:shrug:

[David__77]

28. PDVSA workers are being paid, yes. Non-PDVSA workers, no.

If they are on the payroll, they are being paid.

And PDVSA is even paying workers of the nationalized companies who became disabled, but were not paid by their former private employer.

http://www.abn.info.ve/noticia.php?articulo=187683&lee=3

I wish we saw more of this social responsibility in this country.

[WriteDown]

30. 14 is good, I'm still waiting for the other 8000. nt

[David__77]

31. Lol... those were the disabled workers who don't work for PDVSA.

PDVSA workers are being paid. See articles below.

[David__77]

26. And, as of 7/15, those workers are now PDVSA workers, being fully paid.

Edited to correct links:

http://www.abn.info.ve/noticia.php?articulo=190333&lee=3
http://www.abn.info.ve/noticia.php?articulo=187427&lee=3

They were largely Chavista, unemployed for a few weeks after the nationalization, and now it's resolved. No political witch hunt there. Any other ideas about "repression?"

[WriteDown]

27. Why did you link to a story on Honduras and women?

:shrug:

[David__77]

29. Fixed it.

My mistake!

[WriteDown]

32. I still don't see where these 8K workers were paid....

:shrug:

ABN also isn't exactly unbiased. I'll wait for something from BBC or AFP.

[Bacchus39]

13. its Democracy in action n/t

s

[BOG PERSON]

21. "a police station controlled by a leading opponent of President Hugo Chavez"

That does not sound kosher AT ALL.